AR Rounds stuck in chamber

[Valkyrie1776]

I have an AR in 224 Valkyrie. It functions fine, when it fires. Rounds eject and chamber. No issues. However, if I have a misfire, or try to clear a live round without firing, it is STUCK. I can’t pull the charging handle. I have to put a block of wood on the handle and HIT it to get it to unlock. I was an armored in the army for 20 years.
I can’t figure this out. I tried seating my bullets a little deeper. I tried trimming the cases a little shorter.
Any thoughts on this?

 

[Makinchips208]

Did you check the headspace?

 

[bobke]

Factory or handloads? Have issue with base dimension just above rim with Lapua brass in 6.5 Grendel that could possibly be same sort of issue. No problem using the brass in chamber that will accept .443 dimension, and no issue with Hornady brass as is consistently under .442, but there is the chance of an interference fit if base dimension even slightly exceeds chamber. Just thinking out loud, as I now separate brass to assure easy chambering.

 

[Constructor]

Color the whole cartridge with a sharpie then chamber and remove a few times, that should show you the problem.

 

[cas6969]

My first thought was a tight throat vs your loaded ammo, but I don't know if the AR would have enough oomph for force them to feed.

 

[SWgeezer]

Hold the release on the charging handle then slam the butt on a solid surface and it should pull the round. I think you are not resizing them enough. Screw the sizing die down really snug on your shell holder then go as much as 1/4 turn more to where your press cams over hard.

 

[Constructor]

Hold the release on the charging handle then slam the butt on a solid surface and it should pull the round. I think you are not resizing them enough. Screw the sizing die down really snug on your shell holder then go as much as 1/4 turn more to where your press cams over hard.

Close the stock and bump it if you're going to do it that way, it can break the stock and shake the scope apart. The safer way is the run a large screwdriver up through the mag well placing it between the carrier and barrel extension then twist.

 

[MtnCreek]

Color case as said above.

Make sure your seating die is not touching the case mouth.

 

[otnot]

All my problems went away once I started using small base sizing dies.

 

[SWgeezer]

Close the stock and bump it if you're going to do it that way, it can break the stock and shake the scope apart. The safer way is the run a large screwdriver up through the mag well placing it between the carrier and barrel extension then twist.

excellent point on closing the stock, I ruined one that way. Pretty rare I would have a large screwdriver along though.

 

[Molon]

I have an AR in 224 Valkyrie. It functions fine, when it fires. Rounds eject and chamber. No issues. However, if I have a misfire, or try to clear a live round without firing, it is STUCK. I can’t pull the charging handle. I have to put a block of wood on the handle and HIT it to get it to unlock. I was an armored in the army for 20 years.
I can’t figure this out. I tried seating my bullets a little deeper. I tried trimming the cases a little shorter.
Any thoughts on this?

The fact that you're having "misfires" is also a problem. Do these problems occur with factory loaded ammunition? Can you drop a resized, but unloaded case completely into the chamber by hand and have that case easily fall out of the chamber?

 

[Valkyrie1776]

Thank you for all the feed back so far.
I am reloading, not factory. My case length, And OAL are good. I don’t see any issues with my die hitting the case but I’ll check. My press is camming over all the way.
The very few misfires I’ve had have been the bolt not fully seated or magazine not fully seated. I don’t have light strikes or anything like that.
I’ll try a few suggestion you have mentioned. As for the “mortaring” a stuck round by hitting the buttstock. It doesn’t work. When one is stuck, I have to put a block on the charging handle, stand behind the rifle, and HIT the block hard to get the BCG to move. I did it the army for years. It’s safer than mortaring.

 

[Rerun7]

Are you full length sizing your brass?

As mentioned above, does a sized piece of brass fall in and out of the chamber on it’s own?

 

[RTH1800]

Small based die is your friend.

 

[Molon]

Small based die is your friend.

If the case is actually the problem, but it could just as easily be an out of spec chamber like all the fubared geissele URGs and barrels out there.

 

[RTH1800]

If the case is actually the problem, but it could just as easily be an out of spec chamber like all the fubared geissele URGs and barrels out there.

Inexperienced operator, reloaded ammo, I’m thinking odds are on ammo, not barrel. But barrel would be the second suspect.

 

[Constructor]

My money is on the resizing, every 1/16th turn down on the resize die pushes the shoulder back .0035". If camming over already then sand or grind a little off of the top of the shell holder then adjust the die down.

 

[Precision Underground]

One of our Valkyries does this with 90smks. It never fails to fire but if I chamber a round and then decide not to shoot it I have to give it a good whack to get it out. Turns out the bullet is jammed into the lands bc my measurement was a few thousandths off but it shoots so good I ain’t changing it.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

OP, Wilson case gage (their spelling) is your friend. I discovered the hard way (similar to your experience) that my reloaded rounds were out of spec in not one but two different-caliber firearms:

• I had been reloading 9mm range brass for a long time, and it all functioned flawlessly in my Sig and Glock pistols. Then my son and I bought CZ pistols, and my handloads jammed them both tight. The case webs swell in generously-sized service pistol chambers, and Dillon said standard dies wouldn't resize the case web (this was many years ago).
• Same thing happened with ARs in 5.56x45. Ammo fed fine in one well-used cheap AR but jammed in a new one built with higher-quality components.

Basically, one drops a loaded round into these Wilson "gages;" if case dimensions/headspace are out of SAAMI spec, you see it instantly. I found the AR reloads were only a few thousandths too fat for the newer rifle, and just running the size die in another fraction of a turn cured the issue. With the 9mm, I just run every loaded round through the "gage" and ones that don't drop all the way in go into a "glock jar" - Glocks will eat anything.

 

[smoothy8500]

Probably due to the forward momentum of the BCG causing the bolt to bump or "squish" the cartridge into the chamber several thou. This even occurs with cases properly sized to allow a stripped bolt to close on the chamber. That is a reason factory cartridges are 4-6 thou less than the GO Gauge spec.

Not saying this is the issue here, but it's a trade-off between plenty of clearance or not overworking the brass on sizing.

 

[Molon]

OP, Wilson case gage
Basically, one drops a loaded round into these Wilson "gages;" if case dimensions/headspace are out of SAAMI spec, you see it instantly.

This statement is false for the Wilson gage that you posted a link to. The gage that you linked to is not a "case" gage in the typical sense of the word. That gage is intended to be used for adjusting the sizing die and trim length, not for checking the final overall dimensions of cases.

From LE Wilson's website: "Does not measure body diameters. This gage is intended to be used with fired cases to determine a basis for full length sizing and trimming."

For determining if sized cases meet the SAAMI specs, you need the Wilson minimum chamber gage.

 

[alamo5000]

I will add nothing about the reloading process but I will say to inspect the rifle, particularly the charging handle and surrounding areas.

I had someone recently that bought a "2nd" charging handle and one of the pins would get jammed and/or disrupt momentum of the carrier.

It ran great once it was charged but on that first round it was a bear.

 

[Molon]

the forward momentum of the BCG causing the bolt to bump or "squish" the cartridge into the chamber several thou. This even occurs with cases properly sized

False. I’ve done a fair amount of testing on the subject using a Mitutoyo 543-472B digital indicator to measure cartridge case head-space. A properly chambered AR-15 barrel using properly sized brass does not “push-back” the head-space of the case more than a few ten-thousandths of an inch upon chambering.

...

 

[RTH1800]

False. I’ve done a fair amount of testing on the subject using a Mitutoyo 543-472B digital indicator to measure cartridge case head-space. A properly chambered AR-15 barrel using properly sized brass does not “push-back” the head-space of the case more than a few ten-thousandths of an inch.

...

The concern here is that something is not “proper”.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

This statement is false for the Wilson gage that you posted a link to. The gage that you linked to is not a "case" gage in the typical sense of the word. That gage is intended to be used for adjusting the sizing die and trim length, not for checking the final overall dimensions of cases.

From LE Wilson: "Does not measure body diameters. This gage is intended to be used with fired cases to determine a basis for full length sizing and trimming."

For determining if sized cases meet the SAAMI specs, you need the Wilson minimum chamber gage.

Well, since I have not had a single stuck case in .223/5.56x45 or 9mm para in the several years since I started using the "case gage" - which is the name the manufacturer clearly printed on the box - I think I'll go on using them as I described. OP can decide for himself. You too.

 

[msgriff]

Well, since I have not had a single stuck case in .223/5.56x45 or 9mm para in the several years since I started using the "case gage" - which is the name the manufacturer clearly printed on the box - I think I'll go on using them as I described. OP can decide for himself. You too.
View attachment 7958279

This video might help clear up the differences between the two gauges mentioned:

ETA: The point is somewhat moot, since Wilson doesn't make a min dimension gauge in 224 Valkyrie.

 

[smoothy8500]

False.....does not “push-back” the head-space of the case more than a few ten-thousandths of an inch upon chambering.

Is it because the bolt is “floating “ and doesn’t have the full weight and momentum of the carrier slamming into the back of the cartridge ?

 

[SWgeezer]

another point many miss is a dry bolt, keep em wet or greasy helps.

 

[Valkyrie1776]

Inexperienced operator, reloaded ammo, I’m thinking odds are on ammo, not barrel. But barrel would be the second suspect.

I am definitely NOT an inexperienced operator. I just don’t understand the problem I’m having.

 

[Valkyrie1776]

Are you full length sizing your brass?

As mentioned above, does a sized piece of brass fall in and out of the chamber on it’s own?

I’ll have to try that when I have time.

 

[RTH1800]

I am definitely NOT an inexperienced operator. I just don’t understand the problem I’m having.

I based my statement on your apparent reloading knowledge. Checking for a tight spot with a marker, dropping a sized case in the chamber and using a small based die for auto loading rifles is basic.
Sorry if I was wrong.

 

[Valkyrie1776]

Is it because the bolt is “floating “ and doesn’t have the full weight and momentum of the carrier slamming into the back of the cartridge ?

That’s a possibility. But I’d think my bolt wouldn’t lock or the round wouldn’t chamber if that was the issue. Again. The only issue I have is if I try to clear an unforced round. Otherwise, my rifle runs like a dream.

 

[Valkyrie1776]

The fact that you're having "misfires" is also a problem. Do these problems occur with factory loaded ammunition? Can you drop a resized, but unloaded case completely into the chamber by hand and have that case easily fall out of the chamber?

I resized, trimmed, deburred and chamfered 50 cases last night. I grabbed 5 at random and dropped them in the chamber. All of them seated just fine, and fell out by themselves when I lifted the barrel. What I haven't tried is cycling empty brass through manually from a magazine

I based my statement on your apparent reloading knowledge. Checking for a tight spot with a marker, dropping a sized case in the chamber and using a small based die for auto loading rifles is basic.
Sorry if I was wrong.

I am newer to reloading. But not shooting. Especially not the AR platform. I've just never encountered this particular issue before. All the brass I have was factory load ammo. I did that to fire form it. Now I reload all of it, everything is within specs right where it should be. I do have some ideas i'm going to try.

 

[Precision Underground]

I resized, trimmed, deburred and chamfered 50 cases last night. I grabbed 5 at random and dropped them in the chamber. All of them seated just fine, and fell out by themselves when I lifted the barrel. What I haven't tried is cycling empty brass through manually from a magazine

I am newer to reloading. But not shooting. Especially not the AR platform. I've just never encountered this particular issue before. All the brass I have was factory load ammo. I did that to fire form it. Now I reload all of it, everything is within specs right where it should be. I do have some ideas i'm going to try.

Make a dummy round at the exact same length (measured at the ogive not the tip)and neck tension you are making loaded rounds. Drop it in and see if it falls out. Then put it in a mag and slam the bolt on it and see if it gets stuck. You can color the bullet with sharpie to see if you’re jamming the lands and/or unseating the bullet when the bolt closes. My guess is you’re jamming into the lands.

 

[Rocketvapor]

"I tried seating my bullets a little deeper. I tried trimming the cases a little shorter."

Factory rounds don't stick? But reloads do?
Looks like you have eliminated bullet jam, OAL, and overall case length as the issue.
Factory rounds probably have a few extra thou of HEADSPACE. If your reloads are close to chamber Shoulder to Base dimension the round will chamber and the bolt will drag hard trying to rotate into battery. Then be HARD to extract. The bolt gun equivalent of "Heavy Bolt Lift".
The cases might drop in just fine and fall out , but do they extract with the bolt rotated into battery? Dragging a tight case out of an AR doesn't have the mechanical advantage of a bolt gun. It will stick.

I take fired cases, with the datum to base expanded by firing and won't chamber without force, and bump them until they just barely fit.
I fit check several in the chamber by setting the case into the extractor and feeding the case forward into the chamber (slowly) feeling for a click to lock. Then bump 0.001" to 0.002" more. With a size to stop press, not a cam over type. Lock down the die setting and size.
I use a 7.62x39 case, belled, for .223 size necks (5.56/224V/22Nolser) to measure as fired and as sized cases (even fits over bullets).

I have made OAL dummies, Zero jump for the bullets I load (85.5, 88, and 95). Loose neck tension, Epoxy on the inside of the neck, chambered for jam, allowed to cure muzzle down. I load for desired jump based on these.
I know where my chamber neck is with a borescope.

I know the headspace determining dimensions of the bolts I use.

Even after all this, I don't know what my actual chamber length is. That would take a Go gage and shims. My datum to base measurement is arbitrary based on a nice fitting X39 case.
I know my bolts are in spec in case I need to swap in another. I assume the headspace of new factory 22 Nosler rounds are about 0.004" (datum to base) short as well as case length. The NOSGAR rounds are 6mm HAGAR cases bumped to the chamber.
I'm setting my reloaded cases to the actual chamber dimension with about 0.002" headspace. They fit and eject.

This is for slow fire, prone, minimum gas to lock back, and a cut down ejector spring.
Wife on the line with a 22 NOSGAR AR.

 

[Rerun7]

Make a dummy round at the exact same length (measured at the ogive not the tip)and neck tension you are making loaded rounds. Drop it in and see if it falls out. Then put it in a mag and slam the bolt on it and see if it gets stuck. You can color the bullet with sharpie to see if you’re jamming the lands and/or unseating the bullet when the bolt closes. My guess is you’re jamming into the lands.

This would be my next step as well. Coloring the bullet with a sharpie is going to tell you if it’s hitting the lands and if it’s getting pushed back into the case.

 

[SWgeezer]

I will say it again, these thicker, heavier cases need small base dies and possibly over camming the ram. They are built for the higher pressures.

 

[Valkyrie1776]

Thank you to everyone for your feedback. I have tried everything that’s been suggested, with the exception of a headspace gauge. I swapped Back to my old BCG, with the same bolt. That didn’t change anything. So I went and bought a box of factory ammo. I chambered and extracted all 20 from the arch of my magazines, without any issues at all.


So, I just ordered a small base sizing die because that is the last option. I’ll post results when it gets here.

Again. Thanx for the help.

 

[Yondering]

I will say it again, these thicker, heavier cases need small base dies and possibly over camming the ram. They are built for the higher pressures.

No, they really don't. What IS needed is to properly bump the shoulder back. I'd bet $20 that's the OP's problem, and he still has no idea after all these suggestions because he hasn't measured it. Small base dies might fix it, simply by being a different die that might push the shoulder back more, but without measuring for sure it'll just further contribute to this false idea of small base dies being necessary. That's how bad information gets reinforced, when people don't actually know what solved the issue and attribute it to the wrong thing.

Contrary to some of the comments above, small base dies are NOT a "basic requirement" of loading for semi auto rifles. That's bunk. It's occasionally necessary, but with most barrels it is not.

But measuring shoulder bump should be a basic first step for anyone running into the issue the OP describes. If the die isn't bumping the shoulder back, it's most likely pushing it forward .001-.002" as the shoulder diameter is squeezed down, and that's all it takes to stick a round in the chamber when using brass already fired in that barrel.

And measuring cartridge base to bullet ogive length is done the same way, with a smaller adapter appropriate for the bullet diameter, and can be used to compare to factory ammo if jamming the lands is suspected. The fact that he hasn't pulled a bullet out of the case and dumped powder in the action indicates to me that he's probably not encountering a bullet jam issue.

 

[r.tenorio671]

....if you're going to start investing in reloading tools, you may want to check out Sheridan's slotted gauges. At a glance you can see if it's a shoulder bump, case web sizing or bullet seating issue. All three of those individually can cause the problems you encountered, more so if more than 1 of those conditions exist compounding the issue.

Rifle Caliber

Slotted Ammunition Gauges

sheridanengineering.com

 

[Rocketvapor]

The Sheridan slotted gauge looks interesting.
But, $75 including tax and shipping.
"machined to the SAAMI minimum chamber spec"

 

[r.tenorio671]

The Sheridan slotted gauge looks interesting.
But, $75 including tax and shipping.
"machined to the SAAMI minimum chamber spec"

...the gauges are cut with a chamber reamer, yes, to SAAMI minimum. If your loaded round fits in the gauge (and drops out), it will fit in (and drop out of) ANY chamber that is SAAMI spec'ed. The utility of the slotted gauge is multiple in that it can tell you if your sizing die is set up properly to resize the case web sufficiently, if the shoulder bump is sufficient, if the case trim length is appropriate, if the bullet seating depth is appropriate due it's ogive shape/type (secant -vs- tangent), all in a single glance. Tangent bullets ogives are "blunter", for lack of a better word, than secant ogives, and contact the leade/lands "sooner" than a secant bullet does for the same COAL measurement. Their pricing is in line with the great majority of gauges on the market.

...it's just a suggestion for a tool that will save you invaluable time, and conversely, components.

Edited: And yes, I do use them....for .308Win, .223/556, 300BLK, 6.5 CM, 6 ARC, & .45 ACP added a couple pix of my 6ARC gauge when converting 6.5 Grendel cases to 6ARC. The pix show 2 Berger 95 grain bullets, a "tangent" and "Secant", the 95 Classic Hunter & 95 VLD Hunter, note the differences in the COAL between the 2. The other pix is my converted case showing the shoulder bump and trim length are within spec.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

The issue with case gauges is they are not an accurate representation of the chamber in use.

I’d suggest a head space comparator and a small base die. Set the head space at least .002 shorter than a fired piece using a small base die and go.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Knowing head space in YOUR chamber is important.
One problem with the OP's issue is the range of as fired length measurements and how much bump is needed to get cases to fit.
With really long case length results, the 10.5" AR, suppressed may be distorting cases like
excessive length, blown out case (@ the 0.200" location).

I'll probably pass on the $75 case gauge.
A chamber may be a little longer than minimum, and In my older barrel I'm chasing lands (loading long).
I get pretty repeatable results with my home made gauge and in chamber checks.
Once set the die stays set for the day.
I'm loading for a new barrel for the wife, minimum gas 22 NOSGAR, and a no gas 22 Nosler for me.
Have two sizing dies I set separately to match chamber and desired headspace.
She is now learning some of the reloading steps and chamber checks her own ammo.
22N for my old barrel, 22N for the new barrel (both sized for about 0.002" head space), 22N Factory round about 0.005" headspace).
I check each chamber for neck length with a borescope. I trim stretched cases to less than 1.765". Factory cases are about 1.755"

Touch(loose neck-glued), Jump, Seating depth.
Gonna need a new barrel this winter for next summer

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Also the BCG closing on a semi auto has enough force change the headspace measurement.



It doesn’t have enough force to change the body diameter or extract a case that is too fat.

 

[RTH1800]

Funny how emotional some folks get about someone else’s problem.
Magic marker the entire round. Run in chamber. The problem will show. It’s simple. Don’t overcomplicate it.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I don't see a lot of emotion here.
Just various members trying to help.
Even if it's found with a magic marker and FIXED, his headspace is still an unknown.
Rounds that chamber and trash brass ain't good.

 

[Valkyrie1776]

No, they really don't. What IS needed is to properly bump the shoulder back. I'd bet $20 that's the OP's problem, and he still has no idea after all these suggestions because he hasn't measured it. Small base dies might fix it, simply by being a different die that might push the shoulder back more, but without measuring for sure it'll just further contribute to this false idea of small base dies being necessary. That's how bad information gets reinforced, when people don't actually know what solved the issue and attribute it to the wrong thing.

Contrary to some of the comments above, small base dies are NOT a "basic requirement" of loading for semi auto rifles. That's bunk. It's occasionally necessary, but with most barrels it is not.

But measuring shoulder bump should be a basic first step for anyone running into the issue the OP describes. If the die isn't bumping the shoulder back, it's most likely pushing it forward .001-.002" as the shoulder diameter is squeezed down, and that's all it takes to stick a round in the chamber when using brass already fired in that barrel.

And measuring cartridge base to bullet ogive length is done the same way, with a smaller adapter appropriate for the bullet diameter, and can be used to compare to factory ammo if jamming the lands is suspected. The fact that he hasn't pulled a bullet out of the case and dumped powder in the action indicates to me that he's probably not encountering a bullet jam issue.

I measured the diameter of a few factory loaded rounds, just above the groove. Did the same with brass that I had resized. There was an average difference of 2/1000. The factory ammo being smaller. This was the deciding factor to purchase the small base die. Case length, OAL, neck diameter, etc, we’re all consistent.
I have not had any bullet jam issues.
I colored a sized case and a seated bullet and chambered it. When I forced the ejection there were no marks on it at all to tell me where it might have been jamming. That’s when I finally decided to measure. (Not sure why I didn’t think of it earlier).
In my particular case, based on my reading and the suggestions here, I think the small base die is the answer. I just got it last night, so I plan to run some test loads tonight.

Funny how emotional some folks get about someone else’s problem.
Magic marker the entire round. Run in chamber. The problem will show. It’s simple. Don’t overcomplicate it.

The problem did not show itself when I did this.

 

[Constructor]

Several years ago when we had a 2 year long debate about SB dies on another forum I called the die manufacturing companies. I asked what their planned design was. Redding would not answer at all. Hornady said all of their dies are designed to be .004" in diameter under the minimum chamber size. RCBS said their small base die diameters are .004" under minimum chamber size and the FL are .002" under, there is no difference in length or headspace adj. Forster and Lee said the same as RCBS. From this it looks like all of Hornady dies are small base whether they say it or not.
Everything manufactured has tolerances, even the reamers used to make the dies have tolerances usually +-.001".

ETA- no dies are designed to resize brass smaller than factory made brass.

 

[SWgeezer]

No, they really don't. What IS needed is to properly bump the shoulder back. I'd bet $20 that's the OP's problem, and he still has no idea after all these suggestions because he hasn't measured it. Small base dies might fix it, simply by being a different die that might push the shoulder back more, but without measuring for sure it'll just further contribute to this false idea of small base dies being necessary. That's how bad information gets reinforced, when people don't actually know what solved the issue and attribute it to the wrong thing.

Contrary to some of the comments above, small base dies are NOT a "basic requirement" of loading for semi auto rifles. That's bunk. It's occasionally necessary, but with most barrels it is not.

But measuring shoulder bump should be a basic first step for anyone running into the issue the OP describes. If the die isn't bumping the shoulder back, it's most likely pushing it forward .001-.002" as the shoulder diameter is squeezed down, and that's all it takes to stick a round in the chamber when using brass already fired in that barrel.

And measuring cartridge base to bullet ogive length is done the same way, with a smaller adapter appropriate for the bullet diameter, and can be used to compare to factory ammo if jamming the lands is suspected. The fact that he hasn't pulled a bullet out of the case and dumped powder in the action indicates to me that he's probably not encountering a bullet jam issue.

I agree to a point, the heavier military type cases need over camming. I shoot 243wsm, 6x6.8, and a 20x6.8. They all need that extra pressure to cycle in an ar. It is similar to what you say without trimming the bottom of the die.