Are 147gr ELDs grouping for you?

[Hondo64d]

I have 500 147gr ELDs on order that should be delivered tomorrow. A buddy of mine has 700 on order. He texted me today asking "How come none of the PRS Shooters aren't shooting ELDs?" Hmmm. Good question.

So, I'm wondering how the 147gr ELDs are grouping for you guys. Any issue finding an accurate load? How do they compare accuracy wise to the Bergers?

Thanks,

John

 

[GhengisAhn175]

too new.

Bergers are tried and true, people are very familiar with them.

There re are some guys testing them but it's inside and twosies.

 

[Rob01]

The 147s are just hitting the streets. They group well and will most likely become popular. Some don;t use Hornady bullets because they believe they don;t perform but I used AMAX bullets since 2004 in what is now called PRS matches and they never held me back. Plenty of wins and top 5 and 10 finishes.

Here's the first load testing I did on them. 5 shots. I found a load that is going 2825fps and shoots the same.

 

[Delicatessen]

About to try the 147s but the 143 eldx groups quite well for me. I like the cost per performance on them.

 

[SMTGWKD]

About to try the 147s but the 143 eldx groups quite well for me. I like the cost per performance on them.

I'll have 600 rounds of 147s to run in a DTA 6.5 creedmoor this Wednesday. Factory Hornady 147 loads shot just under .25" center to center in my rifle - I fully expect my loads to do better. My first ladder test with the 143s last Saturday and RL17 resulted in the following groups... only 3 shots at 100 yards but you get the picture...

 

[SMTGWKD]

I'll let you know how the 147s group this weekend

 

[vh20]

I just started testing the 147 ELD-M factory loads in my rifle this week. When I took it out to 1000, this is what I got from the first three on an IPSC target:

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I then moved over and fired four more on a 10 in. plate at 1000. I missed with shot 3 (suspect low/left), but the other three rounds all registered:

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I'm not that impressed with performance in 100 yd groups so far, but this is encouraging.

 

[d_train821]

I went through about 70 rounds during load development with the 147s, and couldn't get them to shoot as tight as my 139 scenars. That's just my gun though. My 260 just doesn't like them

 

[Rob01]

I went through about 70 rounds during load development with the 147s, and couldn't get them to shoot as tight as my 139 scenars. That's just my gun though. My 260 just doesn't like them

How far off lands where they loaded?

 

[NotMalware]

The 147s are just hitting the streets. They group well and will most likely become popular. Some don;t use Hornady bullets because they believe they don;t perform but I used AMAX bullets since 2004 in what is now called PRS matches and they never held me back. Plenty of wins and top 5 and 10 finishes.

Here's the first load testing I did on them. 5 shots. I found a load that is going 2825fps and shoots the same.

Thanks for posting this! It's really helpful in setting up initial load development.

 

[65x55guy]

I'll have 600 rounds of 147s to run in a DTA 6.5 creedmoor this Wednesday. Factory Hornady 147 loads shot just under .25" center to center in my rifle - I fully expect my loads to do better. My first ladder test with the 143s last Saturday and RL17 resulted in the following groups... only 3 shots at 100 yards but you get the picture...

Please share once once you guys do some reloading. I've got a dta as well in 6.5 and had similar good luck with 147 factory loads. Rifle is new to me, and they grouped 1/2" or a hair over. I expect that as I become more comfortable with the rifle that the groups will tighten up.

Ive got 300 projectiles and 150 Pcs of Hornady brass, and 4451, 4831SC, and RL16 on hand. Goal is to comfortably achieve 2750 fps with low SD on 147s. I don't have a good chrono of my own, so this week sometime I'm going to run a ladder at 300-400 yards and find a sweet spot then hope that the velocity comes back favorably when I have a chance to measure it on a friend's V3.

 

[vh20]

65x55 - That should be very doable unless depending on barrel length. The factory Hornady load chronos out of my 26 in. Krieger 1:8 barrel at 2789. What I find really weird is that they are actually a bit faster than the factory 140 load (which is around 2755). I repeated comparison twice on different days and got same results. All the 147s I've shot were from the same lot number (I bought one case to test and I'm almost halfway through it), so I don't know if a different lot number will be much different.

I have no reloading data because the main reason I bought a 6.5 CM is to have a shooter that runs on factory ammo. I spend enough time at the loading bench for my 338s, etc. already.

I was at the farm working yesterday, and took along the 6.5 with the plan to have a little time left at the end of the day to shoot a bit. Well, plans change and about the time I finished work I got a call that cancelled my shooting plans and had to leave early. Nevertheless, I couldn't leave without throwing a couple of rounds at the 1000 yard target. I only fired two rounds to confirm dope (overcorrected for wind a bit), threw everything back in the truck and went to grab this picture for this thread to add with the other two pics I posted earlier (all factory 147 ELDMs)
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[Hondo64d]

They're not doing too bad. In my 6.5x47, they would definitely prefer to be pushed by H4350 as opposed to Varget though.

John

H4350. 40.0gr averages 2754. I am pleased to get that from the small x47 case.
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Varget
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[65x55guy]

VH20- if that 147 factory holds up at mid 2700 fps range then that's awesome. The box predicts 2695 muzzle velocity, so you are a solid bit above that level. Too bad time didn't allow for shots 3-5 to be placed! The first two were a great start to a legendary group!

 

[vh20]

VH20- if that 147 factory holds up at mid 2700 fps range then that's awesome. The box predicts 2695 muzzle velocity, so you are a solid bit above that level. Too bad time didn't allow for shots 3-5 to be placed! The first two were a great start to a legendary group!

Probably wouldn't have been any better than the other groups I posted above!

The box MV is based on 24 in. bbl. Mine is 26. Figure a "standard" extra 20 fps/inch should bring it up to an expected 2735. I have no idea why I'm getting 2789, but it has been consistent from session to session, and drops have correlated well. Elevation values from my Kestrel AB at 1000 are only 0.05-0.1 mil above my observed drops. Today, I went to 1100 and 1200 as time allowed. Impacts at 1100 were similar to 1000 - about 0.05-0.1 mil low vs. Kestrel value. At 1200, they were about 0.1 mil low.

I have complete faith in the accuracy of my measured MV. What I believe may be slightly off is the G7 BC of the bullet as provided by Hornady (0.351, which I have been using). As I understand it, they've recently reconfigured how they report BCs with their Doppler-measured velocities only going out to 200 yds. I was told this is to be more comparable with competing companies' methods. I have experienced this already with the 140 ELD-M. They had an original G7 BC of .312, then they revised it up to .326 when they changed their reporting method, but my Kestrel matches up perfectly with observed drops and my LR-measured MV when the BC is set at the originally published value of .312.

Back to the 140ELD-M for a moment, the published MV from 24 in. bbl is 2710. From my 26 in. bbl the LR-measured MV is about 2755. This compares very well to the predicted increase from the extra 2 in. of bbl (@ 20 fps/in.). I have shot from quite a few lots of the 140 ELD-Ms, and the MV AVG hasn't changed much. With the new 147s, I have only shot from the one lot number. I do not know if the MV AVG will stay consistently at this level across multiple lots, but anytime you can get a heavier bullet going even faster than a lighter one, it's a good thing!

 

[65x55guy]

Great to hear that the BC advertised for 147s was actually a bit conservative. I've got a 26" barrel on the DTA SRS so I hope to see a similar velocity. And yes, hard to beat that 4-1/2" group you posted at 1000 yards. That's good stuff.

 

[vh20]

Well, I'm saying the BC for the 147 might be "slightly" optimistic, not conservative. But it doesn't seem to be too far off at least - impacts 0.1 mil below calculated @ 1200 is what I observed today.

 

[vh20]

I just got through playing around with the G7 BC in my Kestrel AB and trying to get it to match up with my measured MV and observed drops today at 1000, 1100, and 1200. If I adjust the G7 BC from the Hornady-listed .351 down to around .345, it matches up very closely to my results today. I'll try that BC and try to stretch to 1300 and 1400 next session.

 

[Rob01]

The BC listed is the max BC based off of the 200 yard average and velocity to compare apples to apples as other manufacturers use that as their BC listing. You would need to take the average of the banding of velocities given by Hornady to see the best BC to use for 1000+. The BC given is correct as it is doppler tested but only for velocity given. You can see the data here. www.hornady.com/bc

 

[vh20]

The BC listed is the max BC based off of the 200 yard average and velocity to compare apples to apples as other manufacturers use that as their BC listing. You would need to take the average of the banding of velocities given by Hornady to see the best BC to use for 1000+. The BC given is correct as it is doppler tested but only for velocity given. You can see the data here. www.hornady.com/bc

I thought that's what I tried to say above (but with less detail). Maybe I missed something. I meant that the published BC was based off 200 yds, not ELR, which needs an adjustment to the published BC. I believe it was you who pointed this out to me earlier in a different thread about the 140s a while back.

Thanks for the link, because I had forgotten they had published BCs for the longer ranges.

 

[Blowby]

Went out yesterday for my first estimated load just to get MV and fireform some converted brass. The inconsistency from the sorry ass case and Magnetospeed can be seen on the target. 24" Rock Creek 1530 rounds down the tube. The Magnetospeed was attached at all times. Average MV 2695, SD 12.

Now I need to do the OCW and seating to tighten them up.

 

[Carl_Ross]

John,

I'm doing some 147/6.5x47 development this week, thanks for those results! What was your seating depth in relationship to the lands, and have you tried tweaking the depth at all?

Thanks,
Carl

 

[Rob01]

I started loading them .020" off the lands and they did great. I pushed them back to .030" and they shot the same. .020" off the lands is a good place to start though.

 

[SMTGWKD]

Please share once once you guys do some reloading. I've got a dta as well in 6.5 and had similar good luck with 147 factory loads. Rifle is new to me, and they grouped 1/2" or a hair over. I expect that as I become more comfortable with the rifle that the groups will tighten up.

Ive got 300 projectiles and 150 Pcs of Hornady brass, and 4451, 4831SC, and RL16 on hand. Goal is to comfortably achieve 2750 fps with low SD on 147s. I don't have a good chrono of my own, so this week sometime I'm going to run a ladder at 300-400 yards and find a sweet spot then hope that the velocity comes back favorably when I have a chance to measure it on a friend's V3.

Thought I'd report back since I believe I have the same rifle as you - DTA with factory 6.5 Creedmoor conversion. I've attached two sets of target - one with the 143 Gr ELD-X and one with the 147 Gr ELD-M - both using Reloader 17. You will notice that both loads group just alright until specific nodes then tighten WAY up before spreading back out again. I never ran into any pressure signs on brass, primers, or bolt lift with any loads BUT this is my rifle, at my elevation, under my conditions. One interesting thing of note is that my Extreme spread tightened up dramatically with the accuracy nodes. Not always the case with my rifles, but appears to be a pattern with this one and RL17.

I've settled on 41.3 Gr for the 143s and 40.6 Gr for the 147s.

Interestingly enough - both of these loads reach 1760 yards at my DA traveling at 1120 and 1170 fps, respectively but the slower 147s reach the target a tick quicker. I will likely bump the powder charge a bit on both of them just to see if there is a higher accuracy node...but then again, why waste powder, bullets, brass life, time, etc when I could just be hammering steel at a mile with the loads I already have?

 

[65x55guy]

Thought I'd report back since I believe I have the same rifle as you - DTA with factory 6.5 Creedmoor conversion. I've attached two sets of target - one with the 143 Gr ELD-X and one with the 147 Gr ELD-M - both using Reloader 17. You will notice that both loads group just alright until specific nodes then tighten WAY up before spreading back out again. I never ran into any pressure signs on brass, primers, or bolt lift with any loads BUT this is my rifle, at my elevation, under my conditions. One interesting thing of note is that my Extreme spread tightened up dramatically with the accuracy nodes. Not always the case with my rifles, but appears to be a pattern with this one and RL17.

I've settled on 41.3 Gr for the 143s and 40.6 Gr for the 147s.

Interestingly enough - both of these loads reach 1760 yards at my DA traveling at 1120 and 1170 fps, respectively but the slower 147s reach the target a tick quicker. I will likely bump the powder charge a bit on both of them just to see if there is a higher accuracy node...but then again, why waste powder, bullets, brass life, time, etc when I could just be hammering steel at a mile with the loads I already have?

Thank you for this excellent info. I'm set up for some range time at the end of this week.

 

[Hondo64d]

John,

I'm doing some 147/6.5x47 development this week, thanks for those results! What was your seating depth in relationship to the lands, and have you tried tweaking the depth at all?

Thanks,
Carl

Carl my BTO was 2.090 which is about .010 into the lands in my rifle. Haven't experimented with seating depth with the 147 yet. Hard to tell from the pics but the grid is .36" which puts the 40gr H4350 group between .3 and .4 inches. Going to investigate that one again.

Also occurred to me that with this heavy a bullet, a slower than normal powder might work, so I loaded up some with 7828ssc, in the name of science.

John

 

[vh20]

I took the factory 147 ELDM load out to 1300 today. The wind wasn't much, but it was shifty and really kicked my behind. In my part of the world, spotting misses is essentially impossible. I put a backboard behind my target so that at least "after the fact" I can see where they went. Today, the DA was 2045 ft. For my LR-measured MV of 2789, Kestrel AB called for 11.89 mils Elevation. I put in 11.9 Up, made my best wind call and fired 4 rounds. I never saw an impact, so I gave up and drove to the target. The four impacts were noted by the four blue pieces of tape on the left of the target, which range from 0.3 - 0.4 mils Left of target center. Elevation appeared to be about right, but the big ES was showing up in the vertical stringing. I went back to the rifle, re-assessed the wind and felt it was about the same, so moved the windage 0.3 to the right and fired 3 rounds, and saw no impacts. Drove again to the target and found that I over-corrected, twice as much as I needed. These three rounds are the three pieces of blue tape on the right side of the target. Vertical stringing was about the same as the first group. By now it was getting late and the wind was dying. I drove back to the rifle and noted the temp was falling, as was the DA, which required an additional 0.1 mil elevation to be added. I fired the next three rounds, and all were seen to impact the target (I measured the vertical spread at 12.5 in., as seen on the steel in the pic). Fast running out of daylight, I quickly backed up to 1449 yards (oddball distance dictated by terrain), dialed in the Kestrel suggestion of 14.8 mils Up, and fired 3 rounds. No impacts were detected. When I drove to the target, no impacts were even noted on the backboard. I will have to investigate this further. However, it does seem that the drop at 1300 correlated well with the Kestrel AB when the ELR G7 BC is adjusted to 0.345, given my MV of 2789.

Hope someone can use this data for comparison, etc.

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[Blowby]

4 shot group (at 100 yards just to be clear), ran out of rounds. Very happy with the progress of the ELD-M 147's


Went back out again with the same converted (deformed) cases in my above post. With a windy day in WY my OCW had to be moved in from 300 yards to 200 just to see the holes, too much mirage. Decided on 43.0, based on the node I could see, of H4350 to be my center point for seating depth testing. I now have enough fire formed cases to dial it in.

 

[GO-FASTER]

Anyone using RL26 in a 260 with these or a starting load? Thanks

 

[trauma1]

4 shot group, ran out of rounds. Very happy with the progress of the ELD-M 147's


Went back out again with the same converted (deformed) cases in my above post. With a windy day in WY my OCW had to be moved in from 300 yards to 200 just to see the holes, too much mirage. Decided on 43.0, based on the node I could see, of H4350 to be my center point for seating depth testing. I now have enough fire formed cases to dial it in.

Are you neck or FL sizing?

 

[Blowby]

I took .308 Winchester brass, once fired and dremeled the neck to length (+.030 ish)
https://youtu.be/hg1lVSS38ME


Cleaned up the edges with a chamfer tool. Then used a Forster 6.5 bushing neck / shoulder bump only die and ran the brass through without a bushing in place. I tried with a bushing that would bring the neck to size but it was too much downward pressure for the body below the shoulder. Imperial wax and you have to run the press fast for the best results. This brought the neck diameter to + .011 and the shoulder to -.0015. I then trimmed to length and ran them through again with the bushing die in place, seated primer, loaded powder and seated bullet. Necks are not concentric with body but this is the process to take me to the next level with form fired brass.

So no full length sizing and just the neck bushing was used of distorted brass at this point. I plan on not full length sizing my 6.5 creedmoor unless I need it. My .308 brass has been working with only neck sizing and I'm at about 10x on a few hundred lapua cases.

 

[Hondo64d]

Wondered, this being such a heavy for caliber bullet, if maybe slower burning powders might be effective. Seems that they are. Here is a 10 shot group from my 6.5x47 using 7828ssc. Didn't get to chrono this particular charge, but 41.2gr clocked about 2715. I suspect this one is about 2740fps.

John

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[Carl_Ross]

Interesting...

I don't have anything slower than H4350 to try, but perhaps I can dig something up. Hopefully I can report results in a couple days.

 

[Hondo64d]

I'm thinking a ball powder with a burn rate in the 4831 range might be good too.

John

 

[dodgefreak8]

I had the factory loaded 147 eld-m shoot a 5 shot group into ragged hole last weekend when I was breaking in my new creedmoor rifle. I plan on trying reloader 26 behind these. Been reading good things about that powder and heavier bullets.

 

[dodgefreak8]

Finally got some loaded

 

[Blowby]

I love these 147's! A little luck on my side to pull off a nice 3 shot group (I know only three). Here's the kicker .115" from the lands was the magic number. Heading back out with annealed cases on 4th firing to confirm DOPE out to 1000 next week and shoot another group based on the number of rounds I still have left.

Hornady 147
H4350 / 43.0
F210M
Winchester .308 converted to 6.5
1.5375 / 1.920
2.215 / 2.850
.0025 Neck Tension

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