Are AR-10s problematic?

[45-90]

I highly recommend Proof barrels for LF ARs. They come with the gas tube so you know you have a matches tube. Proof has the gas length figured out on their barrels. Pair it with a JP bolt. If you don't want to buy their entire BCG. I have built two LF ARs and they were and have been drama free. Gas tuned within 10rds. I think the key to success has been builders kits for matched receivers. Matching of Proof barrels and JP bolts. JP SCS for adjustability in the buffer tube lengths and buffer weight adjustability. I've used SLR Sentry 7s for both builds. Lantac EBCGs are also really nice. I'm using the EBCG with a substituted JP bolt in the 6.5CM in a Proof barrel.

I used to be a big proponent of McGowen barrels but their quality of work on their blanks has slipped massively. I've received wrong orders and many folks here have gotten some pretty shitty chambers and muzzle threads. I recently thought their blanks were still at least good and ordered a .224 blank. Gunsmith just chambered it. When I picked it up I asked him what he thought of it. He cringed and said uncomfortably like he didn't want to tell me that the OD of the contour was not concentric to the bore. So when he indicated off the bore and then started spinning the barrel it was helicoptering all over the place. Haven't shot it yet.

If you don't want to go Proof, I'd suggest Rainier Ultra Match barrels. I would really encourage you not to skimp on the BCG and barrel. At least not the barrel. Consider a custom from CLE or Craddock.

I agree with the Proof Research barrel recommendation, when I buy prefit AR 10 Barrels, they have been the most consistent. I use a variety of bolt carrier groups, they all work, none has ever failed. So I have a majority of Toolcraft bolt carrier groups, with the .062" firing pin. Never used any high dollar bolt carriers, as I found it unnecessary to pay extra. They are identical, with one of two basic metals in the body and the exact same on the bolt....many made by the same company, just add a cool logo and charge extra bucks. The steel and heat treatment specs are all within parameters. So some slouch didn't stake the carrier key bolts well ...no big deal restake them...rounded corners...
So I'd put your money in the Proof SS barrel, no carbon fiber for me..today.. none other, for a general cartridge build, for a good start hopefully their quality will continue...I've had quite a few from well known makers having less quality or stopped the lapping procedure to soon, when borescopeed. Its also putting the parts together, squaring, checking, gluing drilling, turning, milling may be required. Just bolting it together, ...is just that. Is it sq or perpendicular, fit?
I ordered a McGowen barrel for a specific project because of the twist available. We will see. Not concerned about a small amount of runout between the barrel and bore...there is always a small amount somewhere. As mine are both just blanks, and will be chambered, threaded, OD turned, one blank will likely be AR 10 and require the full treatment, of gas block journal, gas port, barrel extension, threaded & chambered, plus thread for the brake...accuracy starts with the barrel, bedding, then bullet it likes. Then there are a bunch of tweaks and procedures that may help...sometimes alot. Centering the bolt carrier, and squaring the reciever, are examples.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I highly recommend Proof barrels for LF ARs. They come with the gas tube so you know you have a matches tube. Proof has the gas length figured out on their barrels. Pair it with a JP bolt. If you don't want to buy their entire BCG. I have built two LF ARs and they were and have been drama free. Gas tuned within 10rds. I think the key to success has been builders kits for matched receivers. Matching of Proof barrels and JP bolts. JP SCS for adjustability in the buffer tube lengths and buffer weight adjustability. I've used SLR Sentry 7s for both builds. Lantac EBCGs are also really nice. I'm using the EBCG with a substituted JP bolt in the 6.5CM in a Proof barrel.

I used to be a big proponent of McGowen barrels but their quality of work on their blanks has slipped massively. I've received wrong orders and many folks here have gotten some pretty shitty chambers and muzzle threads. I recently thought their blanks were still at least good and ordered a .224 blank. Gunsmith just chambered it. When I picked it up I asked him what he thought of it. He cringed and said uncomfortably like he didn't want to tell me that the OD of the contour was not concentric to the bore. So when he indicated off the bore and then started spinning the barrel it was helicoptering all over the place. Haven't shot it yet.

If you don't want to go Proof, I'd suggest Rainier Ultra Match barrels. I would really encourage you not to skimp on the BCG and barrel. At least not the barrel. Consider a custom from CLE or Craddock.

Right on
Criterion also heafspaces off JP bolts and offers a bundle with bolt, and gas tube.
I've actually had excellent results with 6 McGowens now, two in the past year, everyone has shot .5 or better.
I have had issues with that Dan guy though messing up my order, and he's a real dipshit to deal with.
They have a new manager that stepped in and set shit right fast though

 

[JR1200W3]

Right on
Criterion also heafspaces off JP bolts and offers a bundle with bolt, and gas tube.
I've actually had excellent results with 6 McGowens now, two in the past year, everyone has shot .5 or better.
I have had issues with that Dan guy though messing up my order, and he's a real dipshit to deal with.
They have a new manager that stepped in and set shit right fast though

How long are you looking to go on the barrel? I run all mine suppressed; forgot to mention. PLS drop a little write-up in here once you get it built and tuned. I'm crossing my fingers for you that, like me, it takes you a whopping 8 rds to tune your gas block to lock back. It would be good to dispell this idea that a person can't build a quality large frame.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

How long are you looking to go on the barrel? I run all mine suppressed; forgot to mention. PLS drop a little write-up in here once you get it built and tuned. I'm crossing my fingers for you that, like me, it takes you a whopping 8 rds to tune your gas block to lock back. It would be good to dispell this idea that a person can't build a quality large frame.

18" with a lighter contour
I'll be shooting suppressed as well, and I carry my rifle in the ID mountains so I don't like a super heavy setup.
Speaking with an engineer at Zev he recommended Spikes AR10 7 7/8 buffer tube with a Sprinco extra power spring, I'll probably go with the Griffin suppressor buffer too.

 

[MikeMiller]

Ar10’s are not AR15’s. Part dimensions and quality are all over the planet.

If you have the funds get a pre built from
GAP
LMT
KAC
LWRC
LaRue

If you need to piece together I would buy complete LaRue Lower
Add either KAC or LMT upper assembly and have for rest tier rifle

 

[JR1200W3]

18" with a lighter contour
I'll be shooting suppressed as well, and I carry my rifle in the ID mountains so I don't like a super heavy setup.
Speaking with an engineer at Zev he recommended Spikes AR10 7 7/8 buffer tube with a Sprinco extra power spring, I'll probably go with the Griffin suppressor buffer too.

The latest large frame AR I built is a 16" 308. One of the things I really dislike about shooting large frames is the two-stroke recoil as the massive BCG and heavy buffer cycles. On this 16" 308W I chose a rifle length gas(whish is on the long side for that setup), a JP LoMass BCG, and the JP SCS. I was trying to minimize the reciprocating mass to tone down the heavy, two-stroke, mile-long recoil follow thru. I have to say it worked out pretty well. Shooting the rifle it's like a fast punch to the shoulder and the BCG is back forward before you recover from the recoil. I am pretty happy with how it recoils. With my 6.5CM I have a heavy enhanced BCG, a 24" barrel, and the heaviest spring I can put on an SCS with all the tungsten buffers. I was worried about false pressure signs and destroying brass. This rifle definitely has the slow,circular two way recoil.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Lots of good info provided, just don't try doing it on the cheap

 

[Jsp556]

Well I pulled the trigger on a Zev billet receiver set (exactly the same as a Mega maten just lighter).
I plan on going with a Criterion or McGowen barrel, still trying to figure out a bolt.
I'm considering the Toolcraft HP 6.5 BCG, RCA HP, or possibly save for a holy fuck expensive JP..

The LMT bcg’s work for DPMS builds.

 

[Cat pitch]

No problems with my Daniel Defense DD5 V1.

 

[GUNNER10]

I'm looking to put a 6.5 Creedmoor AR-10 together.
I've heard a few guys say the Ar-10 platform is prone to issues like cracked bolts etc. I'd never heard this so I'm looking for feedback from guys with high round counts.
I'm looking at building with all WC parts, any suggestions otherwise?
Also will 147 eldms be an issue for oal?

I think there are some really good large frames AR's these days from companies like LMT, KAC,HK, DD,JP,PWS, and I am sure a few others. I think the issues start to pop up when you start to tred into the some of the more budget friendly options that often involve building from parts may not play well together.

I've built large frame AR's in the past and have not had any issues, but moving forward, I am more in the camp of just buying something from a decent manufacture that fits your requirements. I think building a large frame AR made sense 15 years ago, when there were really not a lot of options for different barrel lengths or calibers, but today. You can get a decent 6.5cm from number of companies.

In regard to the 147's, I know people do post loads on them from time to time but would only say that you may find yourself restricted to a particular mag. Personally I run 140BTHP's out of mine and its a lazer.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I’d say AR-10 rifles are problematic for a different reason - ideal use. As AR-15s continue to get more cartridges the volume of situations where an AR-10 is flat out a better option diminishes. With 6.5 Grendel, 6 ARC, 300 Blackout, and 458 SOCOM it’s possible for someone to keep essentially the same rifle, but have longer range, flatter trajectory, quieter hunting rounds, or a large thumping brush gun. The bar where one says “I need to step up to a larger sized, heavier rifle” keeps rising.

On the opposite end the higher power tier keeps leaving the AR-10 behind. The AR-10 was very interesting when everyone was living and breathing the 308win family tree as there was performance parity with bolt guns. But the AR-10 no longer keeps up; the 6.5mm PRS, 7mm PRS, 300 Norma Magnum, and many other “modern” cartridges won’t fit within the AR-10 magazine well.

I’m not saying the AR-10 as a concept is dead. I suspect it will continue to be absorbed into the AR-15 family through rifles like the SFAR and POF Revolution where 308win, 243win, 260rem, 6.5creed, 8.6blk and 338fed just become more cartridge options for “large magwell” AR-15s. But I do think full size AR-10s as their own separate platform like the SR-25, MWS, LR-308, AR-308 will go away.

This is why nobody should take you seriously. Plus the rest of your nonsense rambling too. PRC*

If you don’t think there’s a performance difference between the rounds that fit in a large frame vs small frame then you’re beyond help.

 

[thehun]

AR10s are no harder to build nor more problematic than AR15s as long as you match your parts appropriately ... many don't ... some mismatch certain parts etc etc ...

Main thing ... match the receivers and guts with the same manufacturer ... get a great barrel ... install an adjustable gas block (SLR is my go to) ...

I'll tell you ... even though I want something a tad shorter and am parting with my AR10 build for hopefully a Sig Cross ... my 22" AR10 with a Criterion M118LR barrel using Aero receivers and guts has been the best AR10 system I've fired and has some of the best prone shooting dynamics I've experienced with bolt action like accuracy ... period ... and this includes having ran two LMT MWS, Sig 716 Piston and POF P308 ...

Don't fuss over too much about buffer weights and springs ... get a kit made for .308s (either to A2 extension or carbine)... and use an adjustable gas to actually adjust your rifle ... I went down the rabbit hole with MWS guns with buffers and all that ... the proper way to go with a large frame AR10 is adjustable gas ...

I will also note ... that if you are going to run it with a can ... adjust it to that can ... don't go 50/50 ...

 

[JR1200W3]

AR10s are no harder to build nor more problematic than AR15s as long as you match your parts appropriately ... many don't ... some mismatch certain parts etc etc ...

Main thing ... match the receivers and guts with the same manufacturer ... get a great barrel ... install an adjustable gas block ...

I'll tell you ... even though I want something a tad shorter and am parting with my AR10 build for hopefully a Sig Cross ... my 22" AR10 with a Criterion M118LR barrel using Aero receivers and guts has been the best AR10 system I've fired and has some of the best prone shooting dynamics I've experienced with bolt action like accuracy ... period ... and this includes having ran two LMT MWS, Sig 716 Piston and POF P308 ...

You had me at POF....

 

[JR1200W3]

I'm betting a person could aggregate all the posts on this site about large frame guns that don't run right into 3 bins. A handful of factory guns that eat brass or are ammo picky(Ruger SFAR and POFs), barrel manufacturers that have issues with gas port size or gas length, and incorrect buffers and buffer tube lengths. The moral of the story is a guy just needs to choose the right buffer setup and pick from a select few barrel manufacturers to build a large frame that runs right. Implied is build off a matched receiver set and use adjustable gas. And try to mix and match parts as little as possible.

It would actually make for a good "LFAR build" sticky to list reputable receiver kits, barrels, and the obligatory buffer class.

 

[WindstormSCR]

This is why nobody should take you seriously. Plus the rest of your nonsense rambling too. PRC*

If you don’t think there’s a performance difference between the rounds that fit in a large frame vs small frame then you’re beyond help.

I don't think he was saying there isn't a performance difference, so much as the AR15 market is starting to eat into the "large frame AR" market because the AR market now has cartridges that offer 80%+ the performance of a large frame, and those people really using that extra 20% are just as likely to jump to some of the "magnum frame" offerings now that there are more of those available than there were even 5 years ago.

 

[bfoosh006]

I'd bet, the lack of a MilSpec guideline for LFAR parts could account for 1/3 of the problematic issue. ( If not more )

There are so many companies making their own "pattern" of parts, and then kinda intermixing pattern parts, its no wonder it is confusing....Bolt catches, mag catches, buffer lengths, wrong upper to lower, etc... we have all seen one thread or another with some one not using a compatible part.

Gas / cycling wise... funky gas port sizes, buffer tube lengths with a wrong buffer length, cheap / wrong recoil springs, suppressed v. not

A lot of a LFAR build isn't to hard... but those various parts pattern issues can complicate the build.

I have seen... A DPMS "pattern" upper that will fit on a Aero lower, and function, but when you look closer, the other brand uppers BCG axis is about
1/8" ish higher... so the BCG is riding high into the buffer tube ( IE not centered ) , and the issue with that is.. the mag catch is holding the mag about that 1/8" off... so that would tend to cause "odd" feeding issues.


Basically all those subtle tolerance issues can add up.

Another issue I have seen is some taking their LFAR out of the box without cleaning and re-lubeing it, or not cleaning the chamber / bore of the new barrel and the sticky preservative the manufacturer used isn't cleaned out.

 

[Charger442]

I'll tell you ... even though I want something a tad shorter and am parting with my AR10 build for hopefully a Sig Cross ... my 22" AR10 with a Criterion M118LR barrel using Aero receivers and guts has been the best AR10 system I've fired and has some of the best prone shooting dynamics I've experienced with bolt action like accuracy ... period ... and this includes having ran two LMT MWS, Sig 716 Piston and POF P308 ...

good luck getting rid of your built AR10. its the attitudes like many in this thread and the 100 threads on teh hide that say "it never works, dont build, buy a high end LMT/KAC/SEekins" that have kept me from being able to sell my quality build in the last year. even at less than a grand using a quality reciever set, barrel etc.

so, just a word of caution to you, it may be a hard row to hoe selling a built AR10.

 

[thehun]

good luck getting rid of your built AR10. its the attitudes like many in this thread and the 100 threads on teh hide that say "it never works, dont build, buy a high end LMT/KAC/SEekins" that have kept me from being able to sell my quality build in the last year. even at less than a grand using a quality reciever set, barrel etc.

so, just a word of caution to you, it may be a hard row to hoe selling a built AR10.

Truth. I know. I’m 100% cool with keeping it but yes. People in general don’t do their research prior to building and they just slap crap together hoping it works … let’s face it … most “gunsmiths” aren’t smiths ..

Building an AR10 is like AR15. Throw crappy cheap parts and you’ll get a crappy cheap AR …

I could make my 22” setup shorter by cutting it but Criterion hasn’t made the 22” M118LR Nitride Hybrid barrel in a while and it has such great shooting dynamics that I refuse to cut it … but I kinda want a Sig Cross .308 to fold and mount to the side of my backpack in a scarab. Can’t really do that with my AR10 …

 

[Gohring65]

Well I pulled the trigger on a Zev billet receiver set (exactly the same as a Mega maten just lighter).
I plan on going with a Criterion or McGowen barrel, still trying to figure out a bolt.
I'm considering the Toolcraft HP 6.5 BCG, RCA HP, or possibly save for a holy fuck expensive JP..

Toolcraft is good to go. Save your money.
If going with rifle length gas, I suggest starting with the Wilson combat extended ar10 rifle tube. It helps with sealing up the gas key. Some guys have trouble with under gassed and start drilling gas ports, a lot of times it’s the gas tube not sealing well with the key.

 

[bfoosh006]

Truth. I know. I’m 100% cool with keeping it but yes. People in general don’t do their research prior to building and they just slap crap together hoping it works … let’s face it … most “gunsmiths” aren’t smiths ..

Building an AR10 is like AR15. Throw crappy cheap parts and you’ll get a crappy cheap AR …

I could make my 22” setup shorter by cutting it but Criterion hasn’t made the 22” M118LR Nitride Hybrid barrel in a while and it has such great shooting dynamics that I refuse to cut it … but I kinda want a Sig Cross .308 to fold and mount to the side of my backpack in a scarab. Can’t really do that with my AR10 …

View attachment 8268831
View attachment 8268832

FWIW... My Criterion 18" M118LR Nitride Hybrid barrel is also a great shooter .
As pictured it was setup for accuracy trials.. it is now slimmed down, different stock and 1-8 LPVO.

Both assm. by me. ( So if I can do it.. anyone with a lick of sense can )

I also will never sell mine.

From one of my better days at the range.. and Yes I flubbed the flyer.

10rds Horn. 155gr AG , 100yds, benched, bagged... etc

For that matter, my 6.5CM criterion barreled LFAR is also a great shooter when I do my part.

Yup, flubbed the flyer again, Lol

 

[thehun]

FWIW... My Criterion 18" M118LR Nitride Hybrid barrel is also a great shooter .

I also will never sell mine.

From one of my better days at the range.. and Yes I flubbed the flyer.

10rds Horn. 155gr AG , 100yds, benched, bagged... etc
View attachment 8268839View attachment 8268840

I 100% believe that Criterion M118LR barrels are the best there is for AR10 guns. They shoot ball ammo well too.

 

[Charger442]

Truth. I know. I’m 100% cool with keeping it but yes. People in general don’t do their research prior to building and they just slap crap together hoping it works … let’s face it … most “gunsmiths” aren’t smiths ..

Building an AR10 is like AR15. Throw crappy cheap parts and you’ll get a crappy cheap AR …

I could make my 22” setup shorter by cutting it but Criterion hasn’t made the 22” M118LR Nitride Hybrid barrel in a while and it has such great shooting dynamics that I refuse to cut it … but I kinda want a Sig Cross .308 to fold and mount to the side of my backpack in a scarab. Can’t really do that with my AR10 …

View attachment 8268831
View attachment 8268832

and the thing is with mine, i kinda like it, but i went to a 20" 260 remington on my night hunting thermal setup. and i dont really need this. its a 16", i really like the gun and i built it on a CMT billet matched set which are unobtainium these days but high quality. i decided id not take the bottom dollar and id just keep it and maybe revisit shooting it one day. 16" 308 that runs flawless suppressed? ill just tuck into the back of the closet for a rain-ier day.

 

[Gustav7]

Some of the folks on here have built orders of magnitude more large frames than I, but in my experience of a half dozen or so and watching the forums for a few years the things that stump folks on the large frames are

1.) Trying to make a high back pressure can work. They really are significantly easier to get and keep running with a flow through can or bare muzzle.

2.) Silly light weight/ JP style parts. Just do the stoner thing with an a5 length extension (308 length, not mil spec ar15) and a standard sprinco red or armalite spring with a standard AR-15 h2 or h3 buffer.

Oooof I found out this pretty quickly. I run a .358 bore Rex MG7k on my built PSA .308 and even with the Superlative Arms AGB it is over gassed with can and undergassed without. I do need to play around with the buffer spring, but I run a 6.8oz buffer right now with Armalite 308 spring.

Maybe a good excuse to get a 30 or 38 cal can that is less back pressure.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Oooof I found out this pretty quickly. I run a .358 bore Rex MG7k on my built PSA .308 and even with the Superlative Arms AGB it is over gassed with can and undergassed without. I do need to play around with the buffer spring, but I run a 6.8oz buffer right now with Armalite 308 spring.

Maybe a good excuse to get a 30 or 38 cal can that is less back pressure.

I have a mid length 16" 308Win with JP LMOS BCG, H buffer, Sprinco Red spring, and SLR AGB. The gun runs like a top with and without a silencer. AR10s just aren't that hard. I did tinker with the buffer weight and springs but it mainly consisted of swapping parts from the parts bin. Anything heavier than an H2 with an AGB almost certainly means you have a different problem.

 

[Gustav7]

I have a mid length 16" 308Win with JP LMOS BCG, H buffer, Sprinco Red spring, and SLR AGB. The gun runs like a top with and without a silencer. AR10s just aren't that hard. I did tinker with the buffer weight and springs but it mainly consisted of swapping parts from the parts bin. Anything heavier than an H2 with an AGB almost certainly means you have a different problem.

With a LMOS I suppose ya. The Armalite kit comes standard with an H3. I see no reason to ever go below that.

Oh I can get it to shoot great both ways, it’s the can I suppose as the Rex cans do have quite a bit of backpressure.

I would like to try a stronger spring and lighter buffer just to see if I can tweak it a bit more. This is a 16” midlength as well.

Never had a feeding issues but trying to find a sweet spot as far as tuning

 

[JR1200W3]

The Armalite kit comes standard with an H3. I see no reason to ever go below that.

Reduce the reciprocating mass to speed up follow thru and recovery.

 

[AR shooter]

I've built 6 of them and only had a problem with 2. They were custom barrels with tight chambers. I used all Aero parts and they went together perfectly. I used a drill with emery cloth on a cleaning jag and opened the chambers up. I thought maybe it was my reloads but they don't make small base dies for the bigger calibers. You hear the horror stories about the large frames so that's why I stayed with one brand.

 

[Jsp556]

good luck getting rid of your built AR10. its the attitudes like many in this thread and the 100 threads on teh hide that say "it never works, dont build, buy a high end LMT/KAC/SEekins" that have kept me from being able to sell my quality build in the last year. even at less than a grand using a quality reciever set, barrel etc.

so, just a word of caution to you, it may be a hard row to hoe selling a built AR10.

To be fair, the dude above posting about the drill with Emory cloth is the exact reason you’re having trouble selling your home build. People recommending higher end, factory built, proven platforms is just good advice.

 

[Charger442]

To be fair, the dude above posting about the drill with Emory cloth is the exact reason you’re having trouble selling your home build. People recommending higher end, factory built, proven platforms is just good advice.

How does anyone buy or sell an ar-15 that's not a higher end, factory built rifle, then?

 

[Jsp556]

How does anyone buy or sell an ar-15 that's not a higher end, factory built rifle, then?

Unfortunately, at a loss.

ETA: try here. There’s some absolute garbage posted here for stupid prices. If your gun is nice, and you aren’t asking for more than it’s worth, it may sell.

Rifles

List all rifles here!

www.theoutdoorstrader.com

 

[bfoosh006]

I 100% believe that Criterion M118LR barrels are the best there is for AR10 guns. They shoot ball ammo well too.

20rds DAG "Sanitized" from the 18" Criterion. Rapid'ish fired ( No barrel cool down , just fire , back on POA, fire.. repeat.

 

[Charger442]

Unfortunately, at a loss.

But they are selling, correct? People arent shunning them like the plague?


It's like AR10s are some voodoo magic and people turn into quivering pussies around the thought of them. It's mind boggling

 

[Mute]

I built my own .308 AR. Not a single problem. Just make sure you use quailty parts and do things right when you assemble.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I've built 6 of them and only had a problem with 2. They were custom barrels with tight chambers. I used all Aero parts and they went together perfectly. I used a drill with emery cloth on a cleaning jag and opened the chambers up. I thought maybe it was my reloads but they don't make small base dies for the bigger calibers. You hear the horror stories about the large frames so that's why I stayed with one brand.

They make small base AR dies for the 6.5 creedmoor.

Buy 6.5 Creedmoor Small Base Taper Crimp Die Set - AR Series and More | RCBS

Shopping for the 6.5 Creedmoor Small Base Taper Crimp Die Set - AR Series - Learn more about the latest 6.5 CREEDMOOR RELOADING ESSENTIALS and other hunting or shooting gear at RCBS.

www.rcbs.com

 

[JR1200W3]

They make small base AR dies for the 6.5 creedmoor.

Buy 6.5 Creedmoor Small Base Taper Crimp Die Set - AR Series and More | RCBS

Shopping for the 6.5 Creedmoor Small Base Taper Crimp Die Set - AR Series - Learn more about the latest 6.5 CREEDMOOR RELOADING ESSENTIALS and other hunting or shooting gear at RCBS.

www.rcbs.com

And 308

 

[TGW79]

So I literally am on day 6 of owning my first ar-10. However.. I have seven or eight good friends that have been utilizing the AR-10 platform from everything like long range shooting competitions down to hunting. And I've never heard them or anybody else for that matter state that the AR-10 is prone to failing or breaking any more or less than an AR-15 would be.

I don't really see how an AR-10 would be more prone to breaking.. given that the bolt carrier group The buffer etc etc is designed specifically to handle that kind of abuse.

Now I'm curious. After I post this I'm going to go do a little more research and try to find out a more definitive answer. But yeah.. none of my buddies nor anybody else for that matter have I ever heard say they are more or less prone to anything that the AR-15 platform would or wouldn't be. I truly believe it's all about how you maintain your weapon. But don't get me wrong.. every company from top shelf all the way down to absolute shit.. you're never going to get 100% on their quality control. Every company does put out a lemon from time to time.

I will bring this topic up with some of my buddies and see if they've got anything to say about it.

 

[LRRPF52]

So I literally am on day 6 of owning my first ar-10. However.. I have seven or eight good friends that have been utilizing the AR-10 platform from everything like long range shooting competitions down to hunting. And I've never heard them or anybody else for that matter state that the AR-10 is prone to failing or breaking any more or less than an AR-15 would be.

I don't really see how an AR-10 would be more prone to breaking.. given that the bolt carrier group The buffer etc etc is designed specifically to handle that kind of abuse.

Now I'm curious. After I post this I'm going to go do a little more research and try to find out a more definitive answer. But yeah.. none of my buddies nor anybody else for that matter have I ever heard say they are more or less prone to anything that the AR-15 platform would or wouldn't be. I truly believe it's all about how you maintain your weapon. But don't get me wrong.. every company from top shelf all the way down to absolute shit.. you're never going to get 100% on their quality control. Every company does put out a lemon from time to time.

I will bring this topic up with some of my buddies and see if they've got anything to say about it.

Depending on where the components come from or how they were used, several of us on the Hide have seen the following parts failures over the past 30 years of shooting, trouble-shooting, repairing, and dealing with AR-10s and large frame imitation guns:

* Bent/broken extractors (happened to me within the first few rounds of my DPMS LR-308)
* Broken and dented, cratered firing pin tips
* Broken extractor pins (recent video of this with Aero M5)
* Broken bolt catches when shooting suppressed ( have seen personally on high quality guns, as well as read the documented reports of it)
* Broken/severely-bent firing pin retaining pins (I’ve bent 3-4 of them myself)
* Blown-out rear end of RET (documented)
* Hung-up RRA 2-stage trigger under the BCG (experienced this personally with my DPMS LR-308)
* Peened bolt catches with DPMS GII (documented with photos when they first came out)
* Early wear on gas tube flange (have seen it personally)
* Peened bolt lugs grinding or impacting the barrel extension (happens with trash low-price components from value-based companies sometimes)
* Broken bolts on M110s
* blanking/cratering primers with firing pin apertures that are too large (common with .086” apertures)

Put a round-count on a cheap Vismod-10 and watch it spit broken parts out like a spastic kid making pictures on the wall with their turds. Really trash Vismod-10s will break small parts within the first 50-500rds. Low-Mid tier trash will break small parts within 500-3500rds.

Since the people who typically buy Vismod-10s don't shoot them at those round counts, they don’t commonly see the failures.

Let those of us who tried rolling the dice with the cheap guns serve as a lesson you don’t have to re-learn, which is one of the great things about the forums and no-BS reviews.

You can save yourself a ton of money and wasted time by learning from people who already made the mistakes.

 

[Jsp556]

This is gonna be fun. Lol

“Put a round-count on a cheap Vismod-10 and watch it spit broken parts out like a spastic kid making pictures on the wall with their turds.”

 

[LRRPF52]

This is gonna be fun. Lol

“Put a round-count on a cheap Vismod-10 and watch it spit broken parts out like a spastic kid making pictures on the wall with their turds.”

That’s the edited version of what I originally wanted to say, which was self-censored already.

I’m not a vulgar man, but sometimes I’m at a loss for more pleasant words when trying to describe a monstrous abortion spilling out onto the exam room table with its 2 heads, 3 arms, and intestines on the outside of its abdomen screaming like baboon from The Fly.

 

[tekmann2377]

In my personal experience, I have already seen at least 3 of these issues.
1. Cratered primers - a small firing pin/HP bolt is very helpful, but is typically only seen on more premium large frames.
2. Bolt catch failure - I personally broke 2 bolt catches, even though most of my large frame shooting has been unsuppressed.
3. Erratic ejection and damaged case rims - even with properly tuned gas system

The large frame AR is really a pay to play scenario. I have a pretty decent home build with a 20" Criterion, JP bolt, MI handguard, etc, but it doesn't compare to the out of box reliability and consistency of my MWS.

 

[LRRPF52]

The first broken bolt catch I ever saw was on an ArmaLite AR-10T 24” gun running suppressed in Finland.

That huge BCG slamming into the bolt catch every time he ran to LRHO was just too much for the bolt catch, especially at accelerated cyclic rates from the suppressor.

1996-forward ArmaLites (Eagle Arms re-branded) are one of the best-engineered AR-10s on the market, with superior bolts, bolt carriers, sprung firing pins, and fitment of all the parts to almost everyone else. They are very reliable and accurate as a rule, but even they had problems with bolt catches breaking, as did KAC.

The challenge is that once you make the bolt catch more tough, it can then start peening the bolt lugs. It takes serious engineering and competent staff with a large budget to solve these and many other problems.

The companies that are worth buying from have run pyramid-testing with multi-million dollar staff and ammo budgets.

The companies that have not done this are merely using customers to find all the weak spots.

Most of them just replace the trash item with another piece of thrash, rather than investing in pyramid-testing because it’s too expensive.

KAC probably has the most experience with extensive testing across a wide range of conditions and customers who have demands that are not seen typically in the private sector.

LMT used lessons-learned from the SR-25 and AR-10, since Karl Lewis was involved with the ArmaLite AR-10 development and parts supplies to many other companies, and properly-engineered and tested the LMT MWS.

LaRue did excellent design work, research, and testing on the 7.62 OBR, with tight controls on production for the parts machined in-house, and very well-designed testing parameters and schedules.

Daniel Defense did excellent design work and pyramid-testing with their DD5 .308 and 6.5CM rifles.

Savage did Pyramid-testing with the MSR-10s when they were part of the Vista Group, so they bought ammo from Federal to run those tests. They took a laundry list of features that AR-10 enthusiasts had wanted and incorporated them into the design from the start.

DPMS pyramid-tested the GII prototypes until they ended up with the final models with the separate feed ramp inserts, the elastomer extractor, metallurgy for the bolt and extension, gas ports, etc., then handed it over to DPMS product management, who screwed the handguard SKUs, and production screwed the QC cranking out guns with ejection ports that wouldn’t even open. They had an awesome design, then ruined it somewhat in mass production and SKU configuration.

The companies that sell cheap receivers, outsourced generic BCGs and cheap nitrided barrels have not done any of this, which is why they are able to sell at such low price points. They literally don’t care about your shooting experience, as the main motivator for them is single sale, high-volume sales hoping you can’t afford to shoot much through their parts.

Even from the companies that I place in high regard, I would only want a parts kit from them so I can go over everything, fix what needs fixing, and then assemble myself.

 

[GhostFace]

This deserves to be a sticky, it should serve as required reading for those looking to buy their first large frame. I’ve been into the large frame game since ‘99 and this is spot on….

 

[Franko]

The first broken bolt catch I ever saw was on an ArmaLite AR-10T 24” gun running suppressed in Finland.

That huge BCG slamming into the bolt catch every time he ran to LRHO was just too much for the bolt catch, especially at accelerated cyclic rates from the suppressor.

1996-forward ArmaLites (Eagle Arms re-branded) are one of the best-engineered AR-10s on the market, with superior bolts, bolt carriers, sprung firing pins, and fitment of all the parts to almost everyone else. They are very reliable and accurate as a rule, but even they had problems with bolt catches breaking, as did KAC.

The challenge is that once you make the bolt catch more tough, it can then start peening the bolt lugs. It takes serious engineering and competent staff with a large budget to solve these and many other problems.

The companies that are worth buying from have run pyramid-testing with multi-million dollar staff and ammo budgets.

The companies that have not done this are merely using customers to find all the weak spots.

Most of them just replace the trash item with another piece of thrash, rather than investing in pyramid-testing because it’s too expensive.

KAC probably has the most experience with extensive testing across a wide range of conditions and customers who have demands that are not seen typically in the private sector.

LMT used lessons-learned from the SR-25 and AR-10, since Karl Lewis was involved with the ArmaLite AR-10 development and parts supplies to many other companies, and properly-engineered and tested the LMT MWS.

LaRue did excellent design work, research, and testing on the 7.62 OBR, with tight controls on production for the parts machined in-house, and very well-designed testing parameters and schedules.

Daniel Defense did excellent design work and pyramid-testing with their DD5 .308 and 6.5CM rifles.

Savage did Pyramid-testing with the MSR-10s when they were part of the Vista Group, so they bought ammo from Federal to run those tests. They took a laundry list of features that AR-10 enthusiasts had wanted and incorporated them into the design from the start.

DPMS pyramid-tested the GII prototypes until they ended up with the final models with the separate feed ramp inserts, the elastomer extractor, metallurgy for the bolt and extension, gas ports, etc., then handed it over to DPMS product management, who screwed the handguard SKUs, and production screwed the QC cranking out guns with ejection ports that wouldn’t even open. They had an awesome design, then ruined it somewhat in mass production and SKU configuration.

The companies that sell cheap receivers, outsourced generic BCGs and cheap nitrided barrels have not done any of this, which is why they are able to sell at such low price points. They literally don’t care about your shooting experience, as the main motivator for them is single sale, high-volume sales hoping you can’t afford to shoot much through their parts.

Even from the companies that I place in high regard, I would only want a parts kit from them so I can go over everything, fix what needs fixing, and then assemble myself.

Would you be willing to share your feelings about how you feel about Seekins and the SP10?

Thank you.

 

[MikeMiller]

The first broken bolt catch I ever saw was on an ArmaLite AR-10T 24” gun running suppressed in Finland.

That huge BCG slamming into the bolt catch every time he ran to LRHO was just too much for the bolt catch, especially at accelerated cyclic rates from the suppressor.

1996-forward ArmaLites (Eagle Arms re-branded) are one of the best-engineered AR-10s on the market, with superior bolts, bolt carriers, sprung firing pins, and fitment of all the parts to almost everyone else. They are very reliable and accurate as a rule, but even they had problems with bolt catches breaking, as did KAC.

The challenge is that once you make the bolt catch more tough, it can then start peening the bolt lugs. It takes serious engineering and competent staff with a large budget to solve these and many other problems.

The companies that are worth buying from have run pyramid-testing with multi-million dollar staff and ammo budgets.

The companies that have not done this are merely using customers to find all the weak spots.

Most of them just replace the trash item with another piece of thrash, rather than investing in pyramid-testing because it’s too expensive.

KAC probably has the most experience with extensive testing across a wide range of conditions and customers who have demands that are not seen typically in the private sector.

LMT used lessons-learned from the SR-25 and AR-10, since Karl Lewis was involved with the ArmaLite AR-10 development and parts supplies to many other companies, and properly-engineered and tested the LMT MWS.

LaRue did excellent design work, research, and testing on the 7.62 OBR, with tight controls on production for the parts machined in-house, and very well-designed testing parameters and schedules.

Daniel Defense did excellent design work and pyramid-testing with their DD5 .308 and 6.5CM rifles.

Savage did Pyramid-testing with the MSR-10s when they were part of the Vista Group, so they bought ammo from Federal to run those tests. They took a laundry list of features that AR-10 enthusiasts had wanted and incorporated them into the design from the start.

DPMS pyramid-tested the GII prototypes until they ended up with the final models with the separate feed ramp inserts, the elastomer extractor, metallurgy for the bolt and extension, gas ports, etc., then handed it over to DPMS product management, who screwed the handguard SKUs, and production screwed the QC cranking out guns with ejection ports that wouldn’t even open. They had an awesome design, then ruined it somewhat in mass production and SKU configuration.

The companies that sell cheap receivers, outsourced generic BCGs and cheap nitrided barrels have not done any of this, which is why they are able to sell at such low price points. They literally don’t care about your shooting experience, as the main motivator for them is single sale, high-volume sales hoping you can’t afford to shoot much through their parts.

Even from the companies that I place in high regard, I would only want a parts kit from them so I can go over everything, fix what needs fixing, and then assemble myself.

Brother that is very well written

 

[LRRPF52]

Would you be willing to share your feelings about how you feel about Seekins and the SP10?

Thank you.

Glen Seekins’ reputation for precision-machining preceeds him. I was at their booth at SHOT when they introduced the SP-10, and I have used and recommended Seekins receivers for precision billet ARs in the past. That’s what I have on my 22” Grendel with Lilja barrel.

I don’t have much hands-on with SP-10s though since I personally started getting away from the large frames, even though I’ve been into them since the 1980s back when there was almost no hope to own one (only imported Dutch parts kit builds with crappy US bubba lowers).

 

[Cascade Hemi]

You can prevent BHO levers from breaking and stop over travel into the lower receiver at the same time. There's a pretty well known LFAR formula at this point.

 

[Gustav7]

You can prevent BHO levers from breaking and stop over travel into the lower receiver at the same time. There's a pretty well known LFAR formula at this point.

What is this formula you speak of? Correct buffer components and adjustable gas?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

What is this formula you speak of? Correct buffer components and adjustable gas?

Minimal dwell, adjustable gas, regular buffer, heavy spring. Limit BCG overtravel with spacers if necessary.