Arken EP5 7- 35 .. Standing in for some Alpha Glass

[FuhQ]

Both he and @FuhQ have sorta similar “enthusiastic” writing styles that can polarize folks. I try to cut through that and look at the core bit they are trying to communicate.

Not sure if that's a compliment, but... Thanks?

I do always try to be 100% truthful in my posts, even though some refuse to believe that or accept it because of personal hatred for me challenging the norm, their own personal brand bias, buyer's remorse, cost embarrassment vs. diminishing returns, fanboyism, stubbornness, or Fuddery. I also like to be thorough, because there's enough bullshit out there on the web, that it's hard to wade-through to get facts or honesty.

 

[carbonbased]

Not sure if that's a compliment, but... Thanks?

It’s just an observation, really. Neither good or bad.

You’re a higher-intensity fellow, and that tends to be reflected back.

It reminds me of a zen monk story where the student wonders why all people don’t act like monks. The zen master turns to him and says, “Would you wish the whole world a temple?”

Fine by me, it takes all types. If everyone was like me I’d be bored af lol

 

[Hennig]

I was gonna say the same thing as mentioned a few posts up - I’m sure 95% of the issues woofer had encountered wouldn’t have happened on a 26lb 6br. Big recoil shows all sorts of issues that’d never show up otherwise.

 

[db2000]

SB puts scopes through 50 cycles of 750 G’s of force, equivalent to 50 BMG. I’ve communicated with Jerry about this first hand. I’m sure other companies do as well. People shoot BMGs without scope failure all the time. I don’t see how anyone can have such shitty luck as to have so many top tier scopes fail and then magically a budget scope prevails. Whatever is going on here just seems fucked.

 

[wooferocau]

SB puts scopes through 50 cycles of 750 G’s of force, equivalent to 50 BMG. I’ve communicated with Jerry about this first hand. I’m sure other companies do as well. People shoot BMGs without scope failure all the time. I don’t see how anyone can have such shitty luck as to have so many top tier scopes fail and then magically a budget scope prevails. Whatever is going on here just seems fucked.

I have had many scopes that have been 100% trouble free on the 50bmg ...and no issues....but have also had many that have failed.

 

[FuhQ]

SB puts scopes through 50 cycles of 750 G’s of force, equivalent to 50 BMG. I’ve communicated with Jerry about this first hand. I’m sure other companies do as well. People shoot BMGs without scope failure all the time. I don’t see how anyone can have such shitty luck as to have so many top tier scopes fail and then magically a budget scope prevails. Whatever is going on here just seems fucked.

DeathBeforeDiscount said he's had every brand and model scope shit out under his watch... So, I suppose some just have all the worst luck.

I have somewhat that luck, as well... Typically, if there's a lemon floating around out there, I'll end up with it. Kind of like my CarbonSix barrel that just wouldn't shoot. Visually, everything is perfect, other than the barrel threads being slightly off-center, but other than that, perfect... Just wouldn't shoot for shit. I haven't shot the replacement yet, but will in the next coming weeks (within the next month), as I have other things to test first.

 

[Powdermonkey4]

What's interesting is talking to dealers i know and trust.... the failure rate of some optic brands is surprising !!! Some you would expect , and some you would NOT expect.

Some dealers here i know personally have on offer most brands ranging from budget to High End ... if the customer insists they want brand "x" then that's what they will supply , but at the same time will give the customer their honest view of the optic whether it be favourable or not.

Instead of being vague, why not share some of these figures? Would help people somewhat make a calculated decision when buying.

Surely large overseas dealers would be aware of this high rate of return and stop recommending them as reputation smears to them, as well as the manufacturer?

 

[wooferocau]

Instead of being vague, why not share some of these figures?

Because it will turn into a complete shit fight as per usual...
There are just to many "Fanboys" here that just will not have any negativity said about their pet brand.. They will defend it till the end of time and usually look down upon everything else.

 

[Powdermonkey4]

Because it will turn into a complete shit fight as per usual...
There are just to many "Fanboys" here that just will not have any negativity said about their pet brand.. They will defend it till the end of time and usually look down upon everything else.

1) Or you could provide figures and let people decide for themselves.

2) And attempt to get to the bottom of whether your failure rates are indicative of a larger norm, or due to something particular to your situation.

 

[Threadcutter308]

1) Or you could provide figures and let people decide for themselves.

2) And attempt to get to the bottom of whether your failure rates are indicative of a larger norm, or due to something particular to your situation.

Good luck with that. He's never done it before, history has shown that he's not going to start now.

Those pesky facts just get in the way when you're busy slagging on scope manufacturers.

First, ZCO were his darlings. Then, he said all FIVE of them failed and S und B became his darlings. Now, S und B is "garbage". I'm wondering who is going to be next ? Arken or Tangent Theta ? It's going to be one of them, the question is simply "which one will be first" ?

What do you suppose the statistical probability is that FIVE of the same manufacturer's scopes purchased by the same customer will all fail, at essentially the same/similar time ?

ZCO have to be thanking their lucky stars that he's someone else's problem now.

 

[db2000]

Good luck with that. He's never done it before, history has shown that he's not going to start now.

Those pesky facts just get in the way when you're busy slagging on scope manufacturers.

First it was ZCO, then he said FIVE of them failed and S und B became his darlings. Now, S und B is garbage. I'm wondering who is going to be next ? Arken or Tangent Theta ? It's going to be one of them, the question is simply "which one will be first" ?

What do you suppose the statistical probability is that FIVE of the same manufacturer's scopes purchased by the same customer will all fail, at essentially the same/similar time ?

ZCO have to be thanking their lucky stars that he's someone else's problem now.

Exactly

 

[wooferocau]

Good luck with that. He's never done it before, history has shown that he's not going to start now.

Those pesky facts just get in the way when you're busy slagging on scope manufacturers.

First, ZCO were his darlings. Then, he said FIVE of them failed and S und B became his darlings. Now, S und B is garbage. I'm wondering who is going to be next ? Arken or Tangent Theta ? It's going to be one of them, the question is simply "which one will be first" ?

What do you suppose the statistical probability is that FIVE of the same manufacturer's scopes purchased by the same customer will all fail, at essentially the same/similar time ?

ZCO have to be thanking their lucky stars that he's someone else's problem now.

Get the facts correct mate! !! Before you mouth off once again!!

 

[roostercogburn98]

 

[MarinePMI]

Get the facts correct mate! !! Before you mouth off once again!!

The only one mouthing off in this thread has been you. Take a few days off to think on it...

 

[71firebird400]

Good luck with that. He's never done it before, history has shown that he's not going to start now.

Those pesky facts just get in the way when you're busy slagging on scope manufacturers.

First, ZCO were his darlings. Then, he said FIVE of them failed and S und B became his darlings. Now, S und B is garbage. I'm wondering who is going to be next ? Arken or Tangent Theta ? It's going to be one of them, the question is simply "which one will be first" ?

What do you suppose the statistical probability is that FIVE of the same manufacturer's scopes purchased by the same customer will all fail, at essentially the same/similar time ?

ZCO have to be thanking their lucky stars that he's someone else's problem now.

I mean, he's posting photos of the S&B's that have been problematic. ZCO has had a checkered past, no doubt.

 

[Cody S]

hes banned now, that makes it even more sus

 

[Hennig]

He has just been given a few day ban for whatever reason.

 

[71firebird400]

He has just been given a few day ban for whatever reason.

I'm not sure what caused the ban. Maybe S&B reps got ahold of the forum

 

[carbonbased]

I'm not sure what caused the ban. Maybe S&B reps got ahold of the forum

I believe the reason is contained in @MarinePMI ’s last post in this thread. He got a bit too passionate, I guess.

Like lots of you, I do also wish he’d elaborate more upon his ZCO scope failures. His friend is a dealer, so perhaps that complicates things?

He’s never struck me as a shill, however.

Somewhere he’s mentioned his NF and TT have never failed him (I believe).

IMHO, I was a scope manufacturer, I would sure would draw the “acceptable caliber” line below the 50bmg lol

 

[steve123]

Today at work a coworker told me about this new scope company called Arken.
He said “on sale for $399. They are so awesome and are every bit as good as the expensive scopes.”
I said “I don’t believe that.”
Then he told me he saw the YouTuber say so in a video. And the YouTuber also had a discount on em.
So I called the YouTuber a shill.

Am I wrong?

They used to say the same thing about Hawke scopes 13 years ago. Just as good as NF was what the one guy I know said. He went through two in short order that died and sold the 3rd.
Bought a NF and his scores went way up.

And BTW I'm not a huge NF fan, I don't love and don't hate em. But I'm not happy with Hawke because I ended up with one on a used air rifle that I discovered to be broken and Hawke wouldn't fix or replace it. It was past their 10 year warranty period and they offered no solution or discount on a new one so - here yuh go Hawke I gave you some free advertising.

 

[Threadcutter308]

I mean, he's posting photos of the S&B's that have been problematic.

Yes, yes he did. And as surprising as it may sound, I commend him for that.

But, let me ask a question along those lines; How logical does it sound that someone/anyone that just bought three top tier/Alpha scopes of the same brand/type would have three (out of three) failures ? Yes, one of his pics (possibly more) showed lint/crap on the inside of it, which yes, is clearly a manufacturing defect.

Now, throw the three S &B scopes on top of the five ZCO's that "failed". All from the same manufacturer (3x and 5x respectively) all of the same type, all of the same/similar manufacturing date. All through the same distributor and all to the same customer. The reason for the "failure(s)" (of the five ZCO's) were never made public, in spite of many requests from others here on the Hide to please disclose that information, which he refused to do. And, as far as I know, he continues to refuse to disclose that information. My question is "Why"? Why is that information being hidden ? It appears to be intentional. If someone is going to shit in a manufacturer's messkit publicly, it seems as though there is an implied obligation on the part of the person doing the shitting to disclose why they are taking such action(s).

OK, so now there are not just three, not just five, but EIGHT OUT OF EIGHT (OK, maybe seven out eight) scopes that have supposedly shit the bed on this guy. Doesn't that seem more than just a little bit odd to you or anyone else ? Like I said before, what are the statistical odds of that happening ? I don't think he's a shill, but there certainly seems to be some weird, illogical agenda going on. And, I have no idea what it is, but a bunch of stuff doesn't add up. When someone refuses to disclose what the issues were that they were having, it makes the story even less believable. Does that mean that I'm dead certain that none of those scopes were problematic ? No, not at all. I just have not seen any evidence to support the claim.

I own numerous ZCO's and TT's. I am delighted with all of them. Does that make me a fanboi ? Not in the least. If someone has a complaint or constructive criticism of them, I'm all ears. I want to know of any (legitimate) problems/points of reference for possible future purchases. But, trashing a manufacturer's product publicly, not disclosing what the problem is and not giving the manufacturer an opportunity to correct the problem (before being blasted publicly) is bullshit. Turning around and trashing other people that own the product that ask for details about the problem(s) is bullshit too.

ZCO has had a checkered past, no doubt.

Is that really a statement that you want to stand behind ? Have you ever owned a ZCO scope ? Have you ever had a problem with one ? Were you ever denied service by ZCO ? Or, were you ever dissatisfied with their service ?
Where does that information come from ? Have you ever worked for ZCO, such that you would have "insider" access to that type of information ? If not, it seems like pure speculation.

As far as "doubts" ? In the absence of ANY facts or data, yes, I have doubts.

Hopefully this clarifies things.

 

[Ronws]

Yes, yes he did. And as surprising as it may sound, I commend him for that.

But, let me ask a question along those lines; How logical does it sound that someone/anyone that just bought three top tier/Alpha scopes of the same brand/type would have three (out of three) failures ? Yes, one of his pics (possibly more) showed lint/crap on the inside of it, which yes, is clearly a manufacturing defect.

Now, throw the three S &B scopes on top of the five ZCO's that "failed". All from the same manufacturer (3x and 5x respectively) all of the same type, all of the same/similar manufacturing date. All through the same distributor and all to the same customer. The reason for the "failure(s)" (of the five ZCO's) were never made public, in spite of many requests from others here on the Hide to please disclose that information, which he refused to do. And, as far as I know, he continues to refuse to disclose that information. My question is "Why"? Why is that information being hidden ? It appears to be intentional. If someone is going to shit in a manufacturer's messkit publicly, it seems as though there is an implied obligation on the part of the person doing the shitting to disclose why they are taking such action(s).

OK, so now there are not just three, not just five, but EIGHT OUT OF EIGHT (OK, maybe seven out eight) scopes that have supposedly shit the bed on this guy. Doesn't that seem more than just a little bit odd to you or anyone else ? Like I said before, what are the statistical odds of that happening ? I don't think he's a shill, but there certainly seems to be some weird, illogical agenda going on. And, I have no idea what it is, but a bunch of stuff doesn't add up. When someone refuses to disclose what issues were that they were having, it makes the story even less believable. Does that mean that I'm dead certain that none of those scopes were problematic ? No, not at all. I just have not seen any evidence to support the claim.

I own numerous ZCO's and TT's. I am delighted with all of them. Does that make me a fanboi ? Not in the least. If someone has a complaint or constructive criticism of them, I'm all ears. I want to know of any (legitimate) problems/points of reference for possible future purchases. But, trashing a manufacturer's product publicly, not disclosing what the problem is and not giving the manufacturer an opportunity to correct the problem (before being blasted publicly) is bullshit. Turning around and trashing other people that own the product that ask for details about the problem(s) is bullshit too.

Is that really a statement that you want to stand behind ? Have you ever owned a ZCO scope ? Have you ever had a problem with one ? Were you ever denied service by ZCO ? Or, were you ever dissatisfied with their service ?
Where does that information come from ? Have you ever worked for ZCO, such that you would have "insider" access to that type of information ? If not, it seems like pure speculation. As far as "doubts" ? In the absence of ANY facts or data, yes, I have doubts.

Hopefully this clarifies things.

Agreed. Show documentation of problems and results. Like how, when making claims here about a rifle's precision, show us the paper. If it is not on paper, it didn't happen.

I also agree on the statistical improbability of every single scope he gets has problems. Then, I stopped and thought and I know what the problem is. Technically, there is writing goof on the part of the manufacturers. They forgot to include the statement about NOT striking scopes on concrete with a 15 lb sledge hammer.

 

[Cody S]

They used to say the same thing about Hawke scopes 13 years ago. Just as good as NF was what the one guy I know said. He went through two in short order that died and sold the 3rd.
Bought a NF and his scores went way up.

And BTW I'm not a huge NF fan, I don't love and don't hate em. But I'm not happy with Hawke because I ended up with one on a used air rifle that I discovered to be broken and Hawke wouldn't fix or replace it. It was past their 10 year warranty period and they offered no solution or discount on a new one so - here yuh go Hawke I gave you some free advertising.

Hawke tuah spit on that thang

 

[Makinchips208]

He has just been given a few day ban for whatever reason.

maybe for mouthing off in the technical forums.
He could probably get away with bashing zco in the bear pit a little, maybe, but not here.

 

[71firebird400]

maybe for mouthing off in the technical forums.
He could probably get away with bashing zco in the bear pit a little, maybe, but not here.

Bashing a ZCO is grounds for a ban? Not what I’d expect to be honest. Seems a bit soft. Regardless the man has proven his S&B problems were not fabricated and I for one appreciate the info. I had an issue with a S&B 5-25 a decade ago when they were considered the alpha and now look at their reputation. I wish folks had been a little more transparent back then because now it’s obvious I wasn’t the only one suffering. Regardless I won’t be buying an Arken anytime soon but I still enjoy reading threads like this.

 

[Makinchips208]

Bashing a ZCO is grounds for a ban? Not what I’d expect to be honest. Seems a bit soft. Regardless the man has proven his S&B problems were not fabricated and I for one appreciate the info. I had an issue with a S&B 5-25 a decade ago when they were considered the alpha and now look at their reputation. I wish folks had been a little more transparent back then because now it’s obvious I wasn’t the only one suffering. Regardless I won’t be buying an Arken anytime soon but I still enjoy reading threads like this.

Not necessarily, but they are a commercial supporter. Not hard to figure out that it isn’t wise to come in someone else’s house and rag on someone that helps pay their bills.

In spite of that they are pretty forgiving and allow a lot of nonsense in the BEAR PIT.

 

[db2000]

Bashing a ZCO is grounds for a ban? Not what I’d expect to be honest. Seems a bit soft. Regardless the man has proven his S&B problems were not fabricated and I for one appreciate the info. I had an issue with a S&B 5-25 a decade ago when they were considered the alpha and now look at their reputation. I wish folks had been a little more transparent back then because now it’s obvious I wasn’t the only one suffering. Regardless I won’t be buying an Arken anytime soon but I still enjoy reading threads like this.

If you’ve not learned by now, suffice to say, there’s more to the story.
Proverbs 17:27-28

 

[high right]

After reading through the Arken thread and shifting through the bullshit, which can get deep, I drank the Kool aid. I got the DNT to replace a 5x25 ATCAR on my Vudoo. Glass was good, turrets felt good. The turret screws more than sucked but I could fix that. Indoor range to get a zero with a proven lot of ammo.
I ran the target out to 100, come up was good. Twisted the eley a full turn, came back to 100, first shot was 2" high? Repeated this 3 times. It's gone. Maybe just a bad example? Crappy erector springs? That's gunna cost me points in a match. Bought one of those shitty 6x36 Schmidts to replace it. Jerry has NEVER done me wrong in the past. After 30k rounds or so, I wore a pm11 5x25 out and got it rebuilt. Turn around was fast. All thing mechanical WILL wear out. I personally know of 3 ZCOs to fail, 2 early on, one just recently. Don't own a Tangent, buddies do, I agree they' are phenomenal. My shitty Nightforce scopes have never let me down either.
Oh yeah, I shoot MOA too, it's never cost me a point, ever. I think the glass is getting so good in these cheaper scopes, it's hard to justify spending 5x more. But, most times, you get what you pay for.

 

[FearlessMagpie]

After reading through the Arken thread and shifting through the bullshit, which can get deep, I drank the Kool aid. I got the DNT to replace a 5x25 ATCAR on my Vudoo. Glass was good, turrets felt good. The turret screws more than sucked but I could fix that. Indoor range to get a zero with a proven lot of ammo.
I ran the target out to 100, come up was good. Twisted the eley a full turn, came back to 100, first shot was 2" high? Repeated this 3 times. It's gone. Maybe just a bad example? Crappy erector springs? That's gunna cost me points in a match. Bought one of those shitty 6x36 Schmidts to replace it. Jerry has NEVER done me wrong in the past. After 30k rounds or so, I wore a pm11 5x25 out and got it rebuilt. Turn around was fast. All thing mechanical WILL wear out. I personally know of 3 ZCOs to fail, 2 early on, one just recently. Don't own a Tangent, buddies do, I agree they' are phenomenal. My shitty Nightforce scopes have never let me down either.
Oh yeah, I shoot MOA too, it's never cost me a point, ever. I think the glass is getting so good in these cheaper scopes, it's hard to justify spending 5x more. But, most times, you get what you pay for.

That sounds weird
cuz technically, if theres something wrong with the erector spring, both elevation and windage would change at the same time?

 

[high right]

They did

 

[ChrisAU]

All this talk about glass and durability and country of origin...listen, who do I send $ too for a chinese peanut butter 7-35x56 for a safe queen that I'll regret building because it sucks?

 

[Rob01]

who do I send $ too

@gr8fuldoug at Cameraland could handle that for you whether you want an Arken or DNT.

 

[ChrisAU]

@gr8fuldoug at Cameraland could handle that for you whether you want an Arken or DNT.

Yeah what I meant was the dry earth variation that popped up earlier in the thread. I’m a sucker for those.