Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

#51
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

Of course ... the guy had cancer. It's unlikely alternative cancer therapies were not part of his recovery/prevention regimen. But obviously nothing that would induce a positive drug test.
grin.gif
 
#52
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/biking/road-biking/My-Life-With-Lance-Armstrong.html </div></div>

Interesting if he hadn't sued Armstrong and Cheryl Crow for $500,000 because Lance promised he'd help him open a bicycle shop.
cry.gif
He got $0 for his claim.

All story, no evidence from a disgruntled employee. Could be 100% true and yet it's still 100% irrelevant.

The comment section is a better read.
 
#53
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TwoGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/biking/road-biking/My-Life-With-Lance-Armstrong.html </div></div>

Interesting if he hadn't sued Armstrong and Cheryl Crow for $500,000 because Lance promised he'd help him open a bicycle shop.
cry.gif
He got $0 for his claim.

All story, no evidence from a disgruntled employee. Could be 100% true and yet it's still 100% irrelevant.

The comment section is a better read.</div></div>

It is just a story and it is relevant as it goes to reinforce the perception of Lance's character.
 
#54
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TwoGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/biking/road-biking/My-Life-With-Lance-Armstrong.html </div></div>

Interesting if he hadn't sued Armstrong and Cheryl Crow for $500,000 because Lance promised he'd help him open a bicycle shop.
cry.gif
He got $0 for his claim.

All story, no evidence from a disgruntled employee. Could be 100% true and yet it's still 100% irrelevant.

The comment section is a better read.</div></div>

It is just a story and it is relevant as it goes to reinforce the perception of Lance's character. </div></div>

Don't think these folks care.

5036611760_b442853046_z.jpg
 
#56
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The guy can be a douche and still raise money. So he gets a free pass because he raises money?

The guy is universally accepted as an asshole and to some of us character still means something. </div></div>

I enjoyed that read from your link. This is just one of many stories that portrays Lance as an asshole. They all can't be NOT TRUE, can they?
 
#57
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The guy can be a douche and still raise money. So he gets a free pass because he raises money?

The guy is universally accepted as an asshole and to some of us character still means something. </div></div>

Sure, why not. I've known plenty of folks who've done steroids starting in 9th grade wrestling, to every division of football (I didn't play) to amateur powerlifting to anti-aging clinic hormone balancing. I just don't understand why this is a mystery for people. Nothing has changed other than "bitch tit" and "shrivled nuts" don't seem as prevalent as it once was. Some abused, some enhanced, some recreated, it's no different than any other drug. And if people really gave a shit, they wouldn't poor millions upon millions into a fake reality we call professional sports. At least some are inspired enough to give to charity because of it. Beats having it go to fantasy hoo haa, betting and every other form of mind/reality numbing spectator endeavor.

But I digress. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Life goes on.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/media/books/Keyes-hamilton-the-secret-race.html
 
#58
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

I LOL'd.
It's not a "mystery" to anyone. Where the issue lies is not whether or not it's prevalent, it's not legal and therefore there are PLENTY in ALL those sports mentioned (Including football and I DID play) that don't use steroids. People-fans and participants alike-DO give a shit and that's why there are rules. Sure, businesses can turn a blind eye, but there again, it reveals character. If it's OK to cheat in your mind then that's your opinion. But either eliminate ALL the rules concerning PED or enforce the rules in place. But this BS that it's "OK" because "everyone does it" still does not make it right.

The end does not justify the means.
 
#59
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

I think some have glossed over what the likely achilles heel of Lance really was. The article Mike posted alludes to it, (but the subject in the article is a complete douche bag that does not understand how the world/business works).

It is a sport where doping is virtually an open secret. Where it would be hard to believe that in any given year ALL of the top riders were not doing something. Therefore it is my contention that it wasn't the doping or the dominance that stemmed from it, it is the way Lance came to see and comport himself. As evidence - his divorce from his wife. I dunno, maybe it was horrible relationship, but she did stick by him through cancer, gave him three kids, and then all 'he wanted to do' was bright lights, red carpets and a pop singer - until that got old. The impression we in the peanut gallery are left with is Lance wanted to not only be known for his two wheeled heroics, he wanted to be a personality - he wanted to be a cross media celebrity.

For those that say character doesn't matter - roll it back to your own personal life. I am pretty sure there are a few folks running around your own town that you don't care for their character, and of given the chance to swamp their boat - you'd jump at it. On a world stage, with big money and even bigger egos?

Where there is smoke there is generally fire, and from the media reports for more than a decade - those reports generally said that smoke smelled like fried asshole.


Good luck
 
#60
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

Nice guy Miguel Indurain doped too. He went from something like 19th and barely finishing one year in the TDF, and totally dominating the next year. Even if we had his blood samples available for testing now, he would never be implicated as everyone inside and outside protects Big Mig.

I too think I might have been more easy on Big Mig if he ever got caught or admitted to doping.. Lance though is another story, I know he has to lie about it for his fans sake, but being one of the biggest A-hole in history, I have no problems seeing him go down and exposed for the phoney he really is.

For the Record: I am a Greg Lemond Fan, and I might be picking the wrong side.. but if we had to pick and choose a side, I will side with anti-Lance.
 
#61
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

I'm just tired of the whole deal. So much money and resources going to prove a point that really in the scheme of things does not matter.
Witch hunt in my opinion.
 
#62
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: znztiv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm just tired of the whole deal. So much money and resources going to prove a point that really in the scheme of things does not matter.
Witch hunt in my opinion. </div></div>

Most people don't care for the truth. I myself want to know, and there are a lot of people outside and inside that wants to know the truth.

If you don't like it, read the news.
 
#63
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: znztiv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm just tired of the whole deal. So much money and resources going to prove a point that really in the scheme of things does not matter.
Witch hunt in my opinion.</div></div>

Why does it not matter? Let's just get rid of all the rules concerning doping and have at it.
 
#65
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some people consider the OJ Simpson trial a witch hunt. YMMV </div></div>
What's the diff? They said there was no physical evidence against OJ. They said all the prosecution's witnesses either had an axe to grind or were noted liars.

If it's good enough for OJ, ....

LanceVerdict.jpg
 
#66
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some people consider the OJ Simpson trial a witch hunt. YMMV </div></div>
What's the diff? They said there was no physical evidence against OJ. They said all the prosecution's witnesses either had an axe to grind or were noted liars.

If it's good enough for OJ, ....

LanceVerdict.jpg
</div></div>

LOL. Truth!!!!

That was so good that I posted that pic with your words on the pic on my FB page ahahaha
 
#67
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

The man is innocent. It makes for a good news story if a legend is accused of cheating. Lance is tired of fighting the bullshit and said screw it. Can you blame the guy? There's more to life than working with your lawyer everyday and throwing gobs of cash to defend yourself. He's passed all the drug tests they've given him, but they can't accept the fact that he's a boss.

Lance is still a hero in my book.
 
#68
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outdoorsman9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The man is innocent. It makes for a good news story if a legend is accused of cheating. Lance is tired of fighting the bullshit and said screw it. Can you blame the guy? There's more to life than working with your lawyer everyday and throwing gobs of cash to defend yourself. He's passed all the drug tests they've given him, but they can't accept the fact that he's a boss.

Lance is still a hero in my book. </div></div>

Can't blame you for your choice. We all have to pick and choose our heroes.. I though am on the other side.
 
#69
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<span style="font-size: 14pt">Statement From USADA CEO Travis T. Tygart Regarding
The U.S. Postal Service Pro Cycling Team Doping Conspiracy</span>

October 10, 2012

Today, we are sending the ‘Reasoned Decision’ in the Lance Armstrong case and supporting information to the Union Cycliste International (UCI), the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), and the World Triathlon Corporation (WTC). The evidence shows beyond any doubt that the US Postal Service Pro Cycling Team ran the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen.

The evidence of the US Postal Service Pro Cycling Team-run scheme is overwhelming and is in excess of 1000 pages, and includes sworn testimony from 26 people, including 15 riders with knowledge of the US Postal Service Team (USPS Team) and its participants’ doping activities. The evidence also includes direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding.

Together these different categories of eyewitness, documentary, first-hand, scientific, direct and circumstantial evidence reveal conclusive and undeniable proof that brings to the light of day for the first time this systemic, sustained and highly professionalized team-run doping conspiracy. All of the material will be made available later this afternoon on the USADA website at www.usada.org.

The USPS Team doping conspiracy was professionally designed to groom and pressure athletes to use dangerous drugs, to evade detection, to ensure its secrecy and ultimately gain an unfair competitive advantage through superior doping practices. A program organized by individuals who thought they were above the rules and who still play a major and active role in sport today.

The evidence demonstrates that the ‘Code of Silence’ of performance enhancing drug use in the sport of cycling has been shattered, but there is more to do. From day one, we always hoped this investigation would bring to a close this troubling chapter in cycling’s history and we hope the sport will use this tragedy to prevent it from ever happening again....
 
#70
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

Damn, Dobbsie, you beat me to it. Doesnt look good for Lance.
 
#71
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

I rode semi-pro years ago and had numerous friends who travelled to Europe to race for small teams in the 90's and the drug use was rampant then . At the very least guys were using Steroids all through the off season and carrying the muscle into the season . On the other end was the big teams with money that could afford highly specialized programs to enhance already superb athletes . I never really careed one way or the other if Lance was cheating mainly because Everyone I knew at that level was cheating . I believe that the majority of pro athletes in many sports are probably cheating to some degree , one way or the other . Its only a matter of time before we get to see the "All Drug Olympics"
wink.gif
 
#72
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael N</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I rode semi-pro years ago and had numerous friends who travelled to Europe to race for small teams in the 90's and the drug use was rampant then . At the very least guys were using Steroids all through the off season and carrying the muscle into the season . On the other end was the big teams with money that could afford highly specialized programs to enhance already superb athletes . I never really careed one way or the other if Lance was cheating mainly because Everyone I knew at that level was cheating . I believe that the majority of pro athletes in many sports are probably cheating to some degree , one way or the other . Its only a matter of time before we get to see the "All Drug Olympics"
wink.gif


</div></div>
The difference is that once Lance parlayed his new-found fame into power, he began controlling access to the best doping doctors and access to the best PEDs. He (and everyone who rode for him) was focused on taking every PED they could get their hands on, because, as Tyler repeatedly quotes Lance as saying in his book, "If we're doing it, you know those other motherfuckers are doing it, too, so we've got to do it better." So "Everyone dopes" was not creating anything like a "level playing field."

He'd probably have got away with it if he hadn't been so arrogant and vengeful. For a time, fear of repercussions from Lance and the WADA outweighed the benefit of coming clean. Once the USADA stripped Lance of his titles (and banned Michele Ferrari), he also effectively was stripped of his influence within the sport. The balance has shifted. In fact, the dam has busted. USADA originally promised this information to the UCI two weeks ago, but they had to keep pushing the date back because they've had so many witnesses coming forth, voluntarily offering further testimony. All these people still trying to make a living racing a bicycle know they've got Lance on the ropes and they want to make sure USADA has a plenty big mallet to use to drive this stake through his heart.
 
#73
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael N</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I rode semi-pro years ago and had numerous friends who travelled to Europe to race for small teams in the 90's and the drug use was rampant then . At the very least guys were using Steroids all through the off season and carrying the muscle into the season . On the other end was the big teams with money that could afford highly specialized programs to enhance already superb athletes . I never really careed one way or the other if Lance was cheating mainly because Everyone I knew at that level was cheating . I believe that the majority of pro athletes in many sports are probably cheating to some degree , one way or the other . Its only a matter of time before we get to see the "All Drug Olympics"
wink.gif


</div></div>

I always felt it was an even playing field, that Lance did not win because he doped, he won because he was better than everyone else. It's very hard to win against "cheaters" when you yourself don't "cheat". Lance was not only beating the "cheaters", he dominated them!

However, why does Lance keep on lying? I know why! it's because he has legions of sheep that follows him, and he wants to keep on having these sheeps follow him.
 
#74
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

When stories of the sheer mass of the USADA report began to break, I had a hunch it would put pressure on DoJ to reopen the Novitzky criminal investigation. Now VeloNews -- which is the biggest creampuff cycling rag in existence -- has filed an FOI request with the San Fran DA's office on information pertaining to the reasons for shit-canning the case. If VeloNews is riled enough to take this step, I think it's a given they're either going to have to reopen the investigation or give a damn good explanation why.

Even if the Novitzky investigation doesn't come back to bite him, he probably will be charged with perjury for false testimony given in his 2005 law suit against SCA Promotions. SCA underwrote Lance's (former) victory in the 2005 TdF to the tune of $5 million. SCA withheld payment because they believed Pharmststrong had doped, which would have violated their agreement. Lance sued, the suit went to a court of arbitration, and Lance swore under oath he wasn't doping. SCA was ordered to pay the $5 mil, plus another $2.5 mil in lawyer's fees.

So SCA Promotions has seven and a half million reasons to see that Lance is called on that one.

The AG who ordered the Novitzky investigation dropped is named Andre Birotte, who was recommended to his appointment by Dianne Feinstein, the godmother of abortion "rights". One day, the Susan G Komen foundation drops its support for Planned Parenthood, claiming they couldn't contribute to them so long as they were under congressional investigation. Literally the day after the Komen foundation's announcement, Lance announced his foundation was donating $100,000 to Planned Parenthood. THAT SAME DAY, Birotte closed the Novitzky investigation.

I don't come away from this thinking the $100K was a bribe, I think it was a preemptive strike to preclude them changing their minds. Lance (and Johan) did the same thing in 2001 when the UCI dropped Lance's positive for EPO in the Tour Du Suisse. They "donated" $100,000 to the UCI, ostensibly to buy more drug testing equipment. When news of the donation surfaced, there was a general clamoring that it was a bribe. But I think Lance's plan was to create the appearance of impropriety, which he then could use for leverage, in case they ever decided to change their minds. It seems awfully coincidental that both "bribes" were in the same amount.

In Tyler Hamilton's book, he theorizes Birotte stopped the investigation to prevent a sitting POTUS having to defend against allegations of persecuting an American sports "hero" in an election year.

ASO announced today that if UCI stands by the USADA decision, they will strip Lance and leave the TdF results vacant from 1999 to 2005.
 
#78
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

I kind of admired the guy. How disappointing, and on several levels.
 
#79
#80
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TwoGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the declared winners are! Nobody! That's because 95% of those on the podium during that period have all tested positive or have been linked to doping.

Give the money back? Fuck them.

http://www.nationalreview.com/right-field/331372/no-tour-de-france-winners-1999-2005-greg-pollowitz#

Modern medical technology, embrace it. Might save your life one day.

</div></div>

I think Lance would have done good for himself and the Sport if he just would have gone out and admitted it. It would have taken a big person to do that though... but all know that Lance is not that type of "Big Person", he will die denying it all. That he was the only one that did not cheat, and he beat the others cheaters because he was naturally gifted. Yeah! hahaa
 
#82
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TwoGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the declared winners are! Nobody! That's because 95% of those on the podium during that period have all tested positive or have been linked to doping.

Give the money back? Fuck them.

http://www.nationalreview.com/right-field/331372/no-tour-de-france-winners-1999-2005-greg-pollowitz#

Modern medical technology, embrace it. Might save your life one day.

</div></div>

Amen to that!
 
#83
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I kind of admired the guy. How disappointing, and on several levels. </div></div>

He also tried to bury anyone who would tell the truth to investigators. Sucks to learn that Lance is a scumbag.
 
#84
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

Not defending Armstrong, but if you're going to strip him; why stop there? Performance enhancing drugs are prevalent in almost any sport at that level. Bet most of you guys think that Michael Phelps is "natural" too? The fact remains that the gold medal winner is on them, and so is silver and bronze!
 
#85
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not defending Armstrong, but if you're going to strip him; why stop there? Performance enhancing drugs are prevalent in almost any sport at that level. Bet most of you guys think that Michael Phelps is "natural" too? The fact remains that the gold medal winner is on them, snd so is silver and bronze!</div></div>

Yep, I'm that drastic. Strip everyone of everything. I bet Mark Spitz didn't dope, but that was a different Olympics.
 
#86
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

I am w/ you Mike, let's do it; but not just because the guy is an ahole! Btw 72 Olympics were my favorite, except for the tragedy. And I am willing to bet that Spitz did.
 
#89
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

2 of the Greatest Cyclist Still believes Lance is innocent. Then again, these 2 guys also are questionable dopers themselves. Dopers defending dopers?
wink.gif


"Lance has been very correct all through his career, What more can he do? All of the controls that he has done - over 500 since 2000 - have come back negative. Either the controls don't serve any purpose or Armstrong was legit. The whole case is based on witnesses, it's deeply unjust." -- Eddie Merckx to La Dernière Heure

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/merckx-fell-into-the-trap-of-armstrong


"Even now I believe in his innocence. He has always respected all the rules," --- Miguel Indurain to Radio Marca in Spain

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20048066
 
#90
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

With all this new information, I guess Lemond is Americas greatest cyclist. He won 3 tours, two after being shot, during the 80's and early 90's when doping was rampant. Yet, he was able to prevail drug free. Amazing...
 
#92
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With all this new information, I guess Lemond is Americas greatest cyclist. He won 3 tours, two after being shot, during the 80's and early 90's when doping was rampant. Yet, <span style="font-weight: bold">he was able to prevail drug free</span>. Amazing... </div></div>[color:#CC0000][/color]

And I have a source for OD PMAGS at $8
 
#97
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's to all the "He's innocent, stop picking on him" crowd. I guess when you are completely innocent, you often consider admitting guilt for a crime?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/if-lance-ar...-051119475.html </div></div>

I've always been on the "everyone's guilty" crowd stop picking on him. There's not a single drug free cyclist at that level. You can't even stay in the peloton without an enhanced hematocrit and altitude training just don't cut it anymore.

I still see the World's Strongest Man competitions run over and over again on ESPN. Running with 275lb anvils while weighing 265lbs. Yeah, that's normal. One-a-day vitamin and a can of tuna a day (plus a little hard work). All ya need.

 
#98
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

No. I won't stop picking on him. He's a lying douchebag that deserves everything he gets. Don't give that bullshit that "everyone" is doing it. Not everyone is doing it. Now he's going to throw everyone under the bus like it absolves him from any wrong doing? What a chickenshit thing to do

WS make no bones about doping. I don't see them crying foul and ruining peoes lives like LA. I hope he gets burned all the way to the ground.
 
#99
Re: Armstrong to be stripped of all 7 titles today!

If you've ever done any level of athletic competition, then you are aware there are always enhancers. If you're not aware, it's unlikely you've ever competed in truly athletic competition. Even at club level, no-nothing amateur competitions 30 years ago, there was enhancers. Look at every police force and every fire department and you'll find enhancers. Now, ramp that probability to the probability that those who were enhancing didn't keep right on enhancing to multi-million dollar world class events.

Everyone at that level is a doper. It's not possible for them to get to that level and not have beaten other dopers. And it's not possible to beat dopers because doping works and works amazingly well. And that's just the way it is.
 
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