ATF gearing up to ban braces

[THEIS]

Hi,

There is a reason data analytic companies are on the forefront of artificial intelligence.....
It takes about 5 minutes to develop a personality profile based on online presence only....bringing in other data collection methods brings a personal profile down to about 2 minutes.
They not only know what you have purchased but can ACCURATELY predict what you will purchase.
They not only know your "reasoning" for the purchase but can ACCURATELY predict how you will purchase.

There is a reason I keep saying do NOT use the same forum name across multiple forums.
There is a reason I keep saying search your name and go to each of the "data scraping" advertisement companies and opt out of their systems.
But...what do I know, lol....

The Patriot Act not only allows them to access your bank but it requires ALL banks, national and international to comply with their demands.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[IrishWind]

Or it will be something as simple as an offduty LEO at the range doing his thing and seeing some neckbeards using their brace as a stock.

 

[TexPatriot]

E.Bryant:

...then they can find out when you snap a picture of your build using your cloud-connected phone (no forum or Twatfacegram required).


[/QUOTE]

Oh shit.

 

[deersniper]

As much as I agree there should not be any reason for BATFE to have any say on braces, shit..on pretty much anything firearm related; that is just not the way laws are upheld here on this land at this time. So stop poking the bear before you call down the thunder and ruin more rights for more people

Lol at the idea we have rule of law in this country.

About as much as any banana republic has rule of law.

Laws are just for tax slaves and enemies. Criminals at the top and bottom are left alone

 

[DocRDS]

ATF cant make laws

Will NOT comply. I will die on this hill if need be.

Doc

But not alone. I'm just done myself.

Hi,

There is a reason data analytic companies are on the forefront of artificial intelligence.....
It takes about 5 minutes to develop a personality profile based on online presence only....bringing in other data collection methods brings a personal profile down to about 2 minutes.
They not only know what you have purchased but can ACCURATELY predict what you will purchase.
They not only know your "reasoning" for the purchase but can ACCURATELY predict how you will purchase.

View attachment 7440817

There is a reason I keep saying do NOT use the same forum name across multiple forums.
There is a reason I keep saying search your name and go to each of the "data scraping" advertisement companies and opt out of their systems.
But...what do I know, lol....

The Patriot Act not only allows them to access your bank but it requires ALL banks, national and international to comply with their demands.

Sincerely,
Theis

Just a minor correction--they don't "know" your reasoning, but can still make pretty good guesses based on your previous behavior. That said, your advice is good, anything you can do to disrupt the pattern of your online presence. But even with all that your patterns of posting can be matched to like individuals, so its not just you, its everyone like you.

Nope not a conspiracy theorist. A data scientist that specializes in Language Processing.

 

[BytorJr]

Not stupid at all. Prior to the invention and approval of braces, there were dedicated pistol buffer tubes, and people would often put rubber tips (such as the no-slip tips for walking canes) on the end to improve comfort. It sucked, to be honest.



Both. We already know that the ATF is chasing down other NFA parts that were purchased online (presumably based upon bulk electronic surveillance of purchase records). And we know how possession will be treated (even if it's "constructive possession"). This shouldn't come as any surprise, although I'm sure that there will be plenty of that reaction in the weeks and months to come.

Assume that there are already multiple paths by which the feds and various private entities know what you own. Assuming that one didn't generate an electronic trail by purchasing, say, an SBA3 brace in FDE from Brownells on 7/27/2019 at 12:19PM using card # 1234 4567 0910 1112 and the email address [email protected], then they can find out when you snap a picture of your build using your cloud-connected phone (no forum or Twatfacegram required).

And it's actually wise than that; using your online activity (scraped from a variety of sources), they might be able to figure out that you likely own a brace based solely upon your habits and conversations.

Welcome to 2020.

It's with a post like this that even the stupid people of America (and I believe there are quiet a few) should be able to grasp the brilliance of the Founding FATHERS (there, I said it). The Bill of Rights is so intertwined that it's either super brilliant or completely set up to fail. I choose to believe the former. Freedom of Speech, Right to Keep and Bear Arms, Illegal Search and Seizure (at least tacitly here, in that you don't own the records of your purchases). That said, shouldn't the gov't have to get a warrant to search those records? Seems reasonable to me in the spirit of #4.

 

[THEIS]

That said, shouldn't the gov't have to get a warrant to search those records?

Hi,

Not since the Patriot Act.
How many of you noticed your local banks with lobby doors completely locked with off duty Federal and State level Law Enforcement inside the door ways during the Covid restrictions?
Guess what new systems they were setting up......(no conspiracy theorist here either....a pure realist with vague understanding of how Gov'ts work--National and International)
How many of you are aware that Singapore is lobbying aka bidding to take over the worlds intra-banking email/messaging systems?

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[E. Bryant]

Oh shit.

Oh yeah. I use a standard cloud storage service provided by my phone's OS. Those pictures are automatically uploaded to the cloud (so that I don't run the risk of losing pictures of my kids' first days of kindergarten that I'll never look at again), and analytics are run on every photo to scrape whatever info possible. My phone's manufacturer knows the license plate number and VINs of my vehicles (hell, they probably know when I change the oil and what brand filters I use). They know the age and birthdate of my kids. They know how fast my ZL1 runs the 1/4-mile. They know the headstamp of my brass. They might even be able to pick out the part numbers of the Kennemetal inserts that I run on my lathe.

If I take a picture of my firearms, they've extracted data on it fractions of a second after it's been saved to my phone. So I can post a picture like this on a public forum:

... without any concern that the Feds or someone else may see it, because they already have it. They also have the financial records from my bank and CC issuer. They've got the sales records of any online retailer (either through a direct agreement with that retailer, or bulk collection of records). They have the shipping records for the trip from the online retailer to my house, business, or local FFL. They've got me on camera going to the FFL, and my phone broadcast my position all the way there and home. And of course every post I've ever made here or elsewhere is stored on a hard drive in Utah.

So, no, I don't much think it matters that I posted a picture of my latest 300 BLK pistol to the Semi-auto subforum a few months ago. If I was screwed, then I was screwed well before that moment.

 

[Geeb]

Hi,

Disclaimer: I completely agree the BATFE needs to be reigned in but in reality it is the SCOTUS that needs to remove the 2A restrictions and limitations imposed onto it. That is pretty much the only way to stop things like this from occurring now but also in the future.

That being said----

The firearms industry can be its' own worse enemy at times if we were all being completely and brutally honest...

Pistol braces came about as a pure "F*ck You" to what was the written regulations at the time. It was like a 3 year old throwing a fit because was told to pick up his garbage and he picked it up but just moved it 2 feet and sat it back down.

Solvent traps came about as a pure "Hold my beer and watch this" in regards to lets see if we can get the BATFE attention.

Like it or not when you signed the terms of your FFL, you acknowledge to abide and uphold the BATFE regulations so the industry needs to stop fucking with its' "Parent" and then cry when that "Parent" slaps the taste out of your mouth for being a smartass.

As much as I agree there should not be any reason for BATFE to have any say on braces, shit..on pretty much anything firearm related; that is just not the way laws are upheld here on this land at this time. So stop poking the bear before you call down the thunder and ruin more rights for more people.

The old saying of "Let sleeping dogs lay"........

Sincerely,
Theis

I fail to see your logic that it is a "pure F*ck You", braces were submitted for approval and APPROVED by the ATF, so where's the problem?
Solven traps being used to make unregistered suppressors is on the owner, they are making illegal suppressors. Braces are different as they were approved by the ATF.

 

[BytorJr]

Hi,

Not since the Patriot Act.
How many of you noticed your local banks with lobby doors completely locked with off duty Federal and State level Law Enforcement inside the door ways during the Covid restrictions?
Guess what new systems they were setting up......(no conspiracy theorist here either....a pure realist with vague understanding of how Gov'ts work--National and International)
How many of you are aware that Singapore is lobbying aka bidding to take over the worlds intra-banking email/messaging systems?

Sincerely,
Theis

Patriot Act....poison!!!! Completely wiped off Amendment 4. Just like Ron Paul warned.

I noticed my local branch bank was closed. I didn't drive in to see the LE in the bank though. I'll look for the cameras and other sensors next time I'm in. Especially in the safety deposit box area.

 

[deersniper]

What kind of idiot uses safe deposit boxes?

Esp after the OG commie FDr shenigans

 

[DocRDS]

Oh man don't get me started on "The Cloud"

You know Facebook (and Google btw, your gmail and mine) just uses your data for whatever analytics they want? "The Cloud" is the same.

Google and Amazon are the leading Cloud Providers. You are sending and storing ALL your data to these left wing hacks and in some cases pasying for the privlidge. You think they give a flying leap about gun rights? they'll turn that stuff over in 2 seconds to "help" if they haven't already. After all, you probably signed your rights away in the user agreement.

I'd use encrypted email except no one else uses it. Your email is being read by someone--it may not be the government, but it definitly read by your service provider. We signed our rights away for "convenience". Total left turn away from braces etc, but just saying--they know who has em. If they don't they have means to find out who does.

We live in 1984 and we didn't even realize it.

Now I have to go have my two minutes of hate against the bad orange man.

 

[E. Bryant]

I fail to see your logic that it is a "pure F*ck You", braces were submitted for approval and APPROVED by the ATF, so where's the problem?
Solven traps being used to make unregistered suppressors is on the owner, they are making illegal suppressors. Braces are different as they were approved by the ATF.

Well, braces were submitted for evaluation by the Tech Branch, and the response letters were taken as "approval". To the best of my knowledge, there is no such thing as formal type approval by the ATF.

The "F you" aspect of the brace evolved slowly, but the end result (the SB "PDW" brace) is a far cry from those original forearm cuffs. Even the humble SBA3 is pretty clear in its intentions:

Does that really look like the most comfortable or effective way to brace a pistol against a forearm?

On the solvent trap front, you can look at the way that some of those parts are constructed (dimples for drilling, materials selected for blast resistance, etc.), or the offer of drill guides, or just they way they are marketed.

Just to be clear, I'm not sitting here saying that this sort of enforcement is proper; in fact, NFA '34 should be repealed in its entirety. But that hasn't happened yet, and it ain't ever gonna happen, and so trying to play in these "grey areas" is going to cause pain.

 

[IrishWind]

For people that have disabilities or can only use one arm/one hand ... this absolutely is an improvement for them ...

And when used as intended, it works great. It is just the people who can't follow the rules is what is ruining it for the rest of us.

 

[Doc68]

And when used as intended, it works great. It is just the people who can't follow the rules is what is ruining it for the rest of us.

Well when the rules are changed daily, then how do you follow them. They went from not being able to shoulder them to being able to shoulder them. If you have black and white rules then they can be followed. However when there is 20 gray areas, then how do you pick which rule to follow.

Doc

 

[Steel head]

I’m wondering if this is timed and ruled on by anti gun types in the ATF to hurt Trump in the election with 2nd amendment voters?
I hope he’s aware of this.

 

[IrishWind]

Well when the rules are changed daily, then how do you follow them. They went from not being able to shoulder them to being able to shoulder them. If you have black and white rules then they can be followed. However when there is 20 gray areas, then how do you pick which rule to follow.

Doc

Easy. Use the brace as designed. Strap it around your forearm. If you really want a SBR, then file the Form1 or Form4 and own one legally. If $200 is that big a deal, then maybe shooting isn't the sport for you. Or if you're worried about the .gov having your name and number, guess what: Too late. The owner of the board recently posted that the .gov is watching this board, so the fact you are posting here is putting yourself on their radar. Not to mention how many 4473s have you done? Maybe you should FOIA yourself and see what they have...

And if you don't like the law, then use that 1st Amendment right in the US Constitution to "petition the Government for a redress of grievances". Either get Congress to pass a law, or use the Courts to strike down the ones you don't like.

 

[army_eod]

It's with a post like this that even the stupid people of America (and I believe there are quiet a few) should be able to grasp the brilliance of the Founding FATHERS (there, I said it). The Bill of Rights is so intertwined that it's either super brilliant or completely set up to fail. I choose to believe the former. Freedom of Speech, Right to Keep and Bear Arms, Illegal Search and Seizure (at least tacitly here, in that you don't own the records of your purchases). That said, shouldn't the gov't have to get a warrant to search those records? Seems reasonable to me in the spirit of #4.

In case you missed it, our rights have been thrown out for decades. The Feds do not follow their own laws; immigration and borders, for example.
And you misspelled quite.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Easy. Use the brace as designed. Strap it around your forearm. If you really want a SBR, then file the Form1 or Form4 and own one legally. If $200 is that big a deal, then maybe shooting isn't the sport for you. Or if you're worried about the .gov having your name and number, guess what: Too late. The owner of the board recently posted that the .gov is watching this board, so the fact you are posting here is putting yourself on their radar. Not to mention how many 4473s have you done? Maybe you should FOIA yourself and see what they have...

And if you don't like the law, then use that 1st Amendment right in the US Constitution to "petition the Government for a redress of grievances". Either get Congress to pass a law, or use the Courts to strike down the ones you don't like.

When you have "friends" like this ^^^ ........

 

[Doc68]

Easy. Use the brace as designed. Strap it around your forearm. If you really want a SBR, then file the Form1 or Form4 and own one legally. If $200 is that big a deal, then maybe shooting isn't the sport for you. Or if you're worried about the .gov having your name and number, guess what: Too late. The owner of the board recently posted that the .gov is watching this board, so the fact you are posting here is putting yourself on their radar. Not to mention how many 4473s have you done? Maybe you should FOIA yourself and see what they have...

And if you don't like the law, then use that 1st Amendment right in the US Constitution to "petition the Government for a redress of grievances". Either get Congress to pass a law, or use the Courts to strike down the ones you don't like.

You must have missed their ruling as to being able to shoulder the brace......you are part of the problem.

Doc

 

[E. Bryant]

For people that have disabilities or can only use one arm/one hand ... this absolutely is an improvement for them ...

Without a doubt, this is true. But viewing things from a neutral perspective, braces have gotten worse with time relative to this purpose. SB's own product has gone from fixed rubber "cuffs" to telescoping fixtures made largely of rigid plastic that don't fit a normal forearm all that well. If people don't want to see this, that's fine, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[Steel head]

Without a doubt, this is true. But viewing things from a neutral perspective, braces have gotten worse with time relative to this purpose. SB's own product has gone from fixed rubber "cuffs" to telescoping fixtures made largely of rigid plastic that don't fit a normal forearm all that well. If people don't want to see this, that's fine, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

They definitely don’t seem optimally designed for forearm use any more.

 

[IrishWind]

You must have missed their ruling as to being able to shoulder the brace......you are part of the problem.

Doc

I saw that one. And the long stream of reversals and such. Again, I prefer to stay out of jail. So when it comes to the NFA, as with other gun laws, I go by what the law says and stay out of the grey areas. How is that a problem???

So keep doing what you want. And when the feds show one early morning to your house, just remember it was your decision to violate the laws.

 

[Doc68]

I saw that one. And the long stream of reversals and such. Again, I prefer to stay out of jail. So when it comes to the NFA, as with other gun laws, I go by what the law says and stay out of the grey areas. How is that a problem???

So keep doing what you want. And when the feds show one early morning to your house, just remember it was your decision to violate the laws.

The law is gray because they made it that way. Currently I can shoulder my brace. So I'm following the law.

I'm sorry you decided to go the nfa route and need permission to take your gun out of state. However, by your comments you seem to be a fudd....well I still have my guns so fuck everyone else. You must be the life of the party

 

[E. Bryant]

I’m wondering if this is timed and ruled on by anti gun types in the ATF to hurt Trump in the election with 2nd amendment voters?
I hope he’s aware of this.

He could fix this problem with an executive order at any time. He hasn't done anything about it, Bush Jr. didn't do anything about it; it's almost like maybe they don't care about gun owners other than our votes

They definitely don’t seem optimally designed for forearm use any more.

And that's my point. I think they should be legal, along with any and every other accessory, but unfortunately that's not the way it works for manufacturers.

 

[Doc68]

I saw that one. And the long stream of reversals and such. Again, I prefer to stay out of jail. So when it comes to the NFA, as with other gun laws, I go by what the law says and stay out of the grey areas. How is that a problem???

So keep doing what you want. And when the feds show one early morning to your house, just remember it was your decision to violate the laws.

You gonna turn over your guns when they eventually come for them all......nfa or not....

 

[BytorJr]

In case you missed it, our rights have been thrown out for decades. The Feds do not follow their own laws; immigration and borders, for example.
And you misspelled quite.

Really, I thought our rights were just the same as when the Bill of Rights was originally ratified. Oh, stupid me, I apparently missed that. I mean the Patriot Act is for patriots isn't it? Don't do anything wrong nothing to worry about..right?. And I could give a rats f'ing ass if I incorrectly spelled any word.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

These conversations always stoop down to "I am not giving mine up" and "2A Shall not be infringed upon", etc etc etc.
That is all fine and dandy. I am pretty sure we all agree that the POTUS & SCOTUS need to "disappear" a lot of the firearm regulations, restrictions, laws, etc etc but at the end of the day that is NOT happening.

Manufacturers have an obligation to abide by the agency in which provides them the license to conduct said business...like it or not that is required or you have no business.

Manufacturers should also have an obligation to not manufacturer a product that could fall into and/or create its' own grey area. Because if they do that, they are taking a chance at causing written restrictions to come down that were not in writing beforehand.....Don't blame the dog for biting when you keep kicking it. (Doesn't matter that the dog should or should not be there to begin with at this point).

Manufacturers need to stop acting like they are smarter than the BATFE because it doesn't really matter at the end of the day...the agency that allows you to operate your business is going to win and you are risking ruining other stuff while at it. (Doesn't matter if you think there should not be any license or such required to operate said business to begin with).

Manufacturers need to stop kicking the dog then running to mommy (consumers in this case) for protection. Manufacturers are playing on 2A emotions all while they know good and well they are instigating shit.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[GUN NUT in IA]

Honestly, it doesn't matter what the industry - anyone with a big enough set of balls to go into business for himself is probably going to use those balls to get into trouble with authority figures. Anyone successful has heard "You can't do that!!!" and ignored it so many times that it eventually doesn't matter who is saying it - the ATF, EPA, IRS, whomever.

That works up until it doesn't. Subjugating one's ego is essential in avoiding that problem. Anyone who's listened to one of Kevin Brittingham's podcasts or read a Q LLC Instagram post should work get the idea that there is an ego gone wild. It's abusing as all hell when he's dishing dirt on Remington or dunking on SIG, but at the end of the day, the ATF is the *real* honey badger.

Obviously, the blame is not solely on Q and SB; the ATF rules by adminstrative law using terms like "grey area", and that's fucked up in so many ways.

Interesting that you should use that word.

sub·ju·gate
/ˈsəbjəˌɡāt/

verb

gerund or present participle: subjugating

1. bring under domination or control, especially by conquest.

"the invaders had soon subjugated most of the native population"

 

[IrishWind]

At least I am getting out of the house and socializing with people Doc. And there is more to life than guns. Maybe if that is all you have and can talk about, then maybe there is a reason why you are not getting invited to parties.

As for a guy using the 10thID as an avatar, I rally hope it is because you are honoring a family member. If you did serve, with the attitude you have here, you must have been a favorite of the legal officer. Maybe he still uses you as an example to others on how not to throw away an enlistment.

 

[IrishWind]

You gonna turn over your guns when they eventually come for them all......nfa or not....

And you really think you will resist and fight back? Now who is delusional?

 

[E. Bryant]

Interesting that you should use that word.

sub·ju·gate
/ˈsəbjəˌɡāt/

verb

gerund or present participle: subjugating

1. bring under domination or control, especially by conquest.

"the invaders had soon subjugated most of the native population"

Read into it whatever you wish (although I suspect you're sniffing for something that isn't there).

My use of that word comes directly from Jocko Willink's various works on leadership. If you have a problem with it, bring it up with him; he's got a degree in English and can likely provide more detail.

And for whatever it's worth, my ego is indeed something that needs to be brought under control by conquest, so this is an appropriately descriptive word.

 

[Doc68]

And you really think you will resist and fight back? Now who is delusional?

Actually yes I will. And I'm sure you will call me a crazy gun person. I already fought two wars for this country. I'm not going to stop now.

You are a self admitting law abiding person. Glad to see you love your country enough to fight for your constitutional rights.....I mean let others fight for you. Shitbag.

Doc

Get on the cattle car now, it's for your own good.....

Doc

 

[IrishWind]

Since you can't get your fat arse out to 'fight' BLM or ANTIFA, it is hard to take your word that you would fight the government.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Since you can't get your fat arse out to 'fight' BLM or ANTIFA, it is hard to take your word that you would fight the government.

IF I may offer a little bit of advice.
Quite a few folks you may talk to on here have actually been in harm's way and actually understand it.

You might not want to be quite so abrasive as it's not going to wind up helping your cause any.
All it would get you apart from being ignored, is the possibility of a short time out.

 

[deersniper]

Because if they do that, they are taking a chance at causing written restrictions to come down that were not in writing beforehand.....Don't blame the dog for biting when you keep kicking it. (Doesn't matter that the dog should or should not be there to begin with at this point).

Lol dog is a bad analogy considering what any cop and most people here would do with an aggressive dog that shouldn’t be there

n. Manufacturers are playing on 2A emotions all while they know good and well they are instigating shit

Meh. Rosa Parks et al also were “instigating shit”

 

[rtB]

I wonder if Q had "form approval" or whatever it's called. They've sold a number of units - were those sold legally, and did the BATFE change their mind after the fact. Seems odd to me.

 

[IrishWind]

IF I may offer a little bit of advice.
Quite a few folks you may talk to on here have actually been in harm's way and actually understand it.

You might not want to be quite so abrasive as it's not going to wind up helping your cause any.
All it would get you apart from being ignored, is the possibility of a short time out.

Oh my apologies. How do you know who I am? Do you have access to my DD-214? Until then, maybe you should treat me the way you want me to treat you too. I'm not the one recommending you going to the camp like a holocaust victim. Your buddy is. He is talking tough, but his actions is NOT measuring up to his words. And for the record, I have multiple combat deployments both at sea and in Iraq and Afghanistan, so yeah. BTDT.

And all I have recommend is people to follow the law and gave some advice how not to trip up in the grey areas. Apparently that is a 'problem'. Maybe it is time for me to leave here. The owner @lowlight recently stated this board is being watched by both the government and anti-gun groups. Please re-read this thread, and others like it, and ask yourself what posts do you want being cited as proof gun owners are crazy, violent, people who shouldn't be trusted with a gun?

 

[Doc68]

Since you can't get your fat arse out to 'fight' BLM or ANTIFA, it is hard to take your word that you would fight the government.

I wish I was fat, however on another note I haven't had to fight antifa and blm because they arent here. I have to work daily so I dont have the opportunity to just go with the wind.

But yes, like I stated before I will die in this hill.

You tout yourself as veteran, but you seem to forget about the enemies both foreign AND domestic. Unjust laws are just that. There is power in numbers for sure. But with gun owners like yourself, it kinda makes me wonder whose side you're on.

What have you do e against antifa and BLM. Sorry, I would show you my dd214 but I havent recieved one yet.

Doc

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Can anyone show me how this is an effective pistol brace?? Where is the forearm support?

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[rlsmith1]

The plastic is very strong and rigid, allowing for a great base to run a velcro strap around your forearm and shoot one handed. I really wish they included that velcro strap...

 

[IrishWind]

I am wondering what is driving this. This is the second time this year I've heard rumblings that the ATF is looking at the brace issue again. Something got their attention.

And Doc, you might want to reread that oath of enlistment again. Especially about supporting the US Constitution and obeying ALL orders from the President and officers appointed over you. Hint, the ATF is an Executive Branch agency, and works for the President. So their orders are President Trump's orders too. And the laws of the USA are part of the US Constitution, since they are created under the authorities it gives to Congress and by extension the regulations the Executive Branch creates.

It is one thing to not like the laws, and openly complain. That is what the First Amendment protects. Yes, the NFA sucks. And the NRA fucked us when it didn't sue like they promised to get the Hughes Amendment struck down. I did offer two ways to get change in those laws that is completely legal under our system. But it is a completely different thing to say you openly plan to violate the law, or worse, violently resist if the government is there to arrest you. And a very dangerous statement for someone who is still in uniform to make. The wrong person sees that, that DD-214 might be coming sooner than later. And it won't be written in the way you prefer.

 

[ClamHammer747]

The wrong person sees that, that DD-214 might be coming sooner than later. And it won't be written in the way you prefer.

 

[Chaotic Good]

Three words: vague and capricious.

 

[Huskydriver]

Over here like..

 

[Nailbender]

I saw that one. And the long stream of reversals and such. Again, I prefer to stay out of jail. So when it comes to the NFA, as with other gun laws, I go by what the law says and stay out of the grey areas. How is that a problem???

So keep doing what you want. And when the feds show one early morning to your house, just remember it was your decision to violate the laws.

Eventually, they'll come for you too. Just keep "following the law", whatever that means today. I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[GUNNER10]

Meh...

Simply sell uppers and lowers... What happens when these parts get into the wild is anybodies guess.

In the age of the internet, individual NFA violations are more rear than getting struck by lighting.

Not saying break the law, only that nobody really cares about this stuff. The ramifications of walking outside when there are storm clouds out are far more devastating than any of this stuff.

 

[SilentStalkr]

 

[SilentStalkr]

 

[TxWelder35]

Hi,

These conversations always stoop down to "I am not giving mine up" and "2A Shall not be infringed upon", etc etc etc.
That is all fine and dandy. I am pretty sure we all agree that the POTUS & SCOTUS need to "disappear" a lot of the firearm regulations, restrictions, laws, etc etc but at the end of the day that is NOT happening.

Manufacturers have an obligation to abide by the agency in which provides them the license to conduct said business...like it or not that is required or you have no business.

Manufacturers should also have an obligation to not manufacturer a product that could fall into and/or create its' own grey area. Because if they do that, they are taking a chance at causing written restrictions to come down that were not in writing beforehand.....Don't blame the dog for biting when you keep kicking it. (Doesn't matter that the dog should or should not be there to begin with at this point).

Manufacturers need to stop acting like they are smarter than the BATFE because it doesn't really matter at the end of the day...the agency that allows you to operate your business is going to win and you are risking ruining other stuff while at it. (Doesn't matter if you think there should not be any license or such required to operate said business to begin with).

Manufacturers need to stop kicking the dog then running to mommy (consumers in this case) for protection. Manufacturers are playing on 2A emotions all while they know good and well they are instigating shit.

Sincerely,
Theis

So don’t create products that currently follow the rules/laws/interpretations after getting permission from that governing agency, creating new market segments, and profits for businesses because one day possibly maybe they will decide they don’t like it and you just end up where you were to begin with?

No sir we refuse to make *insert product here* because if we do it might get banned.