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ATS vs ACE muzzle brake
- Thread starter Aaronj12
- Start date
I have an ACE, but had to look up the ATS... and it looks pretty aggressive with all the ports coming right back at the shooter.
I haven't had it long, but so far I like the ACE. It's a great choice if you don't want to get beat up. it's about as comfortable to be behind as the Insite Heathens I've run for a while now (which is one of, if not, still the best out there for that).
I haven't had it long, but so far I like the ACE. It's a great choice if you don't want to get beat up. it's about as comfortable to be behind as the Insite Heathens I've run for a while now (which is one of, if not, still the best out there for that).
I hated shooting with brakes due to the concussion. The Ace brake doesn’t have that and I can shoot a whole days worth of shooting with it and not be dead tired and feeling like shit. Would buy another Ace brake
I don't have the ATS but I did a lot of research on the ACE vs others before purchasing it. It has a bit less recoil mitigation compared to others but not by much yet it has almost no concussive blast. I have it on my 24" 6.5 creedmoor and this rifle is much more pleasant to shoot compared to my 14.5" AR15's, both with brakes.
This is similar to my process. I looked at lots of reviews and ultimately went with the ACE. Decided to build up to more rifles and chose the ACE for both of them, so now i have a total of 3 of them.
I have both. Have shot the ATS on Aarons gun as well (owner and maker of ATS/KSS). On his gun with his setup, its the least ammount of recoil/muzzle flip I have ever seen or shot. Its what convinced me to buy it.
Just for reference, I own every major brake and have shot them all in comps (Helfire match, healthn, all the APA's, ACE, ect). The ACE is what I have ran most of this year, but I shot the ATS in a 2 day and then in our finale yesterday. Maybe its my gun, but I do not get the recoil reduction and reduced muzzle flip I see on other guns setup for it. Need more time with the ATS, but I may go back to the ACE for now. For me, and the way I shoot, it has a less violent muzzle flip.
The APA 3 fat bastard is the most effective brake I have shot so far from a recoil/muzzle flip perspective.
The ACE is probably the best all around for muzzle flip while being very shooter and squad friendly.
The 419 brakes are like a flash bang going off around you, are not as effective as the other options and IMO are just annoying as fuck. Go shoot on a firing line next to them and you will realize this quickly.
I need more time with ATS. Will be switching to a heavier contour barrel next year, which may change the dynamics, so well see. My PRS season is done but I have some classes and fun shoots im going to play around with it more to see if I want to run it next season, stay with the ACE, or go back to a Gen 3 FB.
The ATS is probably THE most shooter friendly brake out there. You can stand right next to the ports (we did this) and while you feel the blast, there is no ringing or concussion. Its the biggest selling point. Every better than the ACE in this perspective.
It was designed to be shooter friendly and not give you ringing headache after a day of shooting. Its very effective at that,.
So now I’m curious… How does the ATS accomplish what you describe? All the pics of them that I’ve found show ports fairly aggressively aimed back towards the shooter?
Are you talking with the tuner thingy installed, kind of how the TMBs work, where the tuner housing redirects the blast?
TMB brake has some gnarly concussion from the few I've shot around. Very similar to APA. Didnt think the tuner diameter behind the brake did anything, maybe it makes a cone of less muzzle blast that overlaps the shooter, but definitely not any more than 20-30° from either side. I run ats comp tuners behind apa fat bastards, and the same brake without a tuner on some, I don't notice a difference as the shooter, it's still very poppy. Since I began wereing in ear and over the ear when shooting, it's less prevalent. All muzzle brakes are loud. Suppressed is far more civilized, but spotting shots is important in the competitive and hunting applications.
Even the Heathens and ACE brakes are pretty brutal unless you’re the one directly behind them pulling the trigger… generally speaking, any brake isn’t going to win you any new friends lol.
FWIW, I’m weird in that I sort of see suppressors on PRS-style guns as being basically pointless, because if you don’t still wear ear pro you’ll be deaf in no time and probably won’t win many matches against other guys running loud-ass recoil-reducing brakes.
FWIW, I’m weird in that I sort of see suppressors on PRS-style guns as being basically pointless, because if you don’t still wear ear pro you’ll be deaf in no time and probably won’t win many matches against other guys running loud-ass recoil-reducing brakes.
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I run my Peltor in ear buds even when shooting suppressed. My left ear hearing is total shite from years of music, drilling rigs, and firearms, oddly the right is pretty good. Have continuous tinnitus and I'm only 39. Trying to save what little I have left.
Well I get a headache in like two shots with a braked rifle and can shoot all day with no pain with my civilized gun. So I shoot what I enjoy shooting.
It does it the same way the PVA brakes do it with that "blast shadow" in the last port closest to the barrel. You can read about it here.
" The Jet4 ports are optimized for precision rifles and aid in precision and shoot-ability, ease of install and do it all without directing muzzle blast back onto the shooter because the rearward angle is optimized to "shadow" the shooter. This is accomplished by using our new patent-pending "Blast Shadow" ports. Take a look at the snapshots we grabbed during testing, recoil reduction levels over 64% have been measured with this brake! We accomplished this by using progressively angled port geometry to optimize how the supersonic flow is redirected around the muzzle."
Jet4 Muzzle Brake
Progressive ports, self timing, no gunsmithing, best in class recoil/rise reduction. At PVA we Engineer Repeatability. 100% Made in USA
patriotvalleyarms.com
And I also always wear double ears at matches.
I switched to the ACE Brake last year and have been super happy with it and recently snagged another for my .25GT build.
I pre ordered a Morgun King TMB but will most likely sell it whenever it arrives.
The ATS is interesting but I don't know if it warrants switching.
I pre ordered a Morgun King TMB but will most likely sell it whenever it arrives.
The ATS is interesting but I don't know if it warrants switching.
The TMB is obnoxious as hell, almost as bad as the 419. If morgan didn't shoot them, no one would even know they exist.
It's funny, IMO most of these "muzzle brake showdowns", reviews, or whatever you see on YouTube and other places, always have a list of "most effective to least effective at reducing recoil"... while it seems like more than a few of us would be better served by a "most comfortable to least comfortable to shoot" ranking...
I'm happy running an ACE, which is straight-port-based like the Heathens (that I also like), but I'm probably going to have to try a PVA, ATS, or other "blast shadow-type" brake at some point.
I'm happy running an ACE, which is straight-port-based like the Heathens (that I also like), but I'm probably going to have to try a PVA, ATS, or other "blast shadow-type" brake at some point.
It kind of depends what you are shooting. Just plinking or by yourself, recoil reduction matters much less. Shooting PRS or other disciplines where its not only timed but you are shooting positional, its much more important so you can spot your shot.
Some matches are 60 guys under a tin roof smashed together, and its brutal. Other ones, you are spread way out and the muzzle blast is much less of an issue.
Some matches are 60 guys under a tin roof smashed together, and its brutal. Other ones, you are spread way out and the muzzle blast is much less of an issue.
I'm running an APA Gen 2 Little Bastard and it is extremely effective on my 7RM rig. Muzzle jump mitigation is fantastic and recoil reduction is stellar. I don't get banged around with it either, but the people next to me sure do.
I just purchased an ATS after the above person DBD suggested it to me in another thread. I'll update after I've thrown a few rounds through it.
A 7RM is hard to tame and the APA turned it into a toddler. I'll see how the ATS does and give my findings on here.
I just purchased an ATS after the above person DBD suggested it to me in another thread. I'll update after I've thrown a few rounds through it.
A 7RM is hard to tame and the APA turned it into a toddler. I'll see how the ATS does and give my findings on here.
Results:
I ran about 30 rounds through the ATS and it was a bit more friendly to other shooters next to me than the APA Little Bastard. They got a puff of wind, but less concussion than the APA Little Bastard.
However, it's recoil reduction was noticeably less than the APA. Had to physically work at keeping my target in the scope's field of view after firing a shot. The APA is pretty effortless if you're using good fundamentals.
I'm thinking about selling it, or I may keep it around if I'm doing load development, etc... to be nice to others. I won't put it on my rifle if I'm doing rapid follow up shots or taking it out to 1000yds or a mile. I like being able to see my bullet trace and the ATS brake just didn't do it for me on my rig. Maybe it's better on other rifles. Who knows.
I ran about 30 rounds through the ATS and it was a bit more friendly to other shooters next to me than the APA Little Bastard. They got a puff of wind, but less concussion than the APA Little Bastard.
However, it's recoil reduction was noticeably less than the APA. Had to physically work at keeping my target in the scope's field of view after firing a shot. The APA is pretty effortless if you're using good fundamentals.
I'm thinking about selling it, or I may keep it around if I'm doing load development, etc... to be nice to others. I won't put it on my rifle if I'm doing rapid follow up shots or taking it out to 1000yds or a mile. I like being able to see my bullet trace and the ATS brake just didn't do it for me on my rig. Maybe it's better on other rifles. Who knows.
I just got my best score at a PRS pro match using the ATS. I shoot them side by side with the APA Gen 3 Fat bastard, and the difference is negligible.
Yannick just tested all these. The ATS had similar linear recoil than the Gen 3 Little Bastard with .223 and 6cm. It also had less muzzle flip.
Now the ATS beat the FAT Bastard with .223 and the Fat beat it barely with 6cm. The ATS beat both in muzzle flip Handily.
The difference in concussion is MASSIVE.
I find it hard to believe you can tell the difference in recoil. If you seriously want to sell it, Ill trade you a nitrided gen 3 fat bastard 5/8-24 (assuming you bought stainless). You can keep the brain damage and Ill run the one that lets me shoot without getting a concussion.
Yannick just tested all these. The ATS had similar linear recoil than the Gen 3 Little Bastard with .223 and 6cm. It also had less muzzle flip.
Now the ATS beat the FAT Bastard with .223 and the Fat beat it barely with 6cm. The ATS beat both in muzzle flip Handily.
The difference in concussion is MASSIVE.
I find it hard to believe you can tell the difference in recoil. If you seriously want to sell it, Ill trade you a nitrided gen 3 fat bastard 5/8-24 (assuming you bought stainless). You can keep the brain damage and Ill run the one that lets me shoot without getting a concussion.
They are also pretty bad for recoil reduction/muzzle flip. ATS has less concussion than ACE, I have tested them side by side. There is a reason I sold off the ACE's.
Anyone compare these to the Maverick? I shoot suppressed (Nomad 30 w/ e brake) and it's a little jumpier than I'd like. I won't use a brake, too much hearing damage and ringing already.
My only complaint about the ACE brake is that the Nitriding wore away in the blast chambers. I contacted them about this and exchanged a couple of emails with them. I never heard from them after that. So, CS and nitride are my only complaints. Note: I only cleaned the brake with Boretec Carbon Cleaner. I never saw detrimental effects on other brakes from A419 or Insite. All of my other brakes are in great shape.
I have aces, lil bastards, big bastards dn5, ti pro brake, hypertaps. The ace is just as good as a lil bastard gen3 with all the top ports opened. I have a few the hypertaps with open ports on top and they're pretty dang good. Idk, if you shoot all them from bag front support, with the same body position, you'd have to video 10 rounds each brake and compare the footage to tell a difference, and then you could point a finger as say this one does this or that but in the heat of the moment on a clock, I dont know if you're gonna be able to say "oh brake X is better than brake Z because I was able to do this better". Idk, use which one you have become familiar to the impulse, know where you're reticle lands consistently from recoil, train your eyes to go the where the target will be to get post shot data. You'll have to do this with every brake, as they are all gonna be different. Changing brakes will only slow this process, as consistency is the key here.
This is why you go stainless. You cant expect them to warranty the nitride inside the blast chambers. Its physics.
Maybe it's different with a .223 or a 6 Creedmoor (I don't own one). A 7RM is a completely different beast and I'm intimately familiar with my rifle. I can tell you with certainty there was a definite difference in recoil mitigation between the APA Little Bastard (which is very good at it) vs the ATS.
I'm not saying the ATS was horrible, because it wasn't. It just wasn't as good as the APA on my 7RM in reference to recoil. The ATS was indeed less concussive to others next to me.
I don't need another APA brake as I have nothing else to put it on, plus my ATS is black nitride and sounds like that's a no go for ya.
I will probably keep the ATS to slap on my 7RM doing load development or just goofing off at the range to be kinder to others.
Sorry to hear it didnt work out for you. Sounds like maybe its a better brake for PRS than heavy magnums.
The giant 3/8" hex at the muzzle on the ACE is fucking genius.
I have a 7RM and run an APA Little Bastard which is absolutely obnoxious to others next to me, but turns my 7RM into a toddler with recoil.
I purchased an ATS and I can tell you that although it does look aggressive, the concussive blast from it was most certainly less than my APA.
Not sure what the port angles are on it, but even with a heavy magnum like the 7RM it certainly made a difference to others next to me.
Recoil wise, it wasn't quite as good as the APA, but that is to be expected. The less the gasses are directed backward, the less recoil mitigation you will get. You can't cheat the laws of physics.
Nitride coating significantly increases the surface hardness, corrosion protection, and wear resistance over bare stainless. A properly nitrided brake will last longer than bare stainless. I have a dozen nitrided brakes that have thousands of rounds through them. None of them, not one, shows the same amount of wear that the ACE brake shows. That is a big issue for me. I'm not hating on them; in fact, their CS was quite prompt, but the fact remains that the coating on the brake is failing. That's something I'd like to know before I buy one.
Agreed, the brake has several innovative features. This is perhaps my favorite. The brake works well overall. I'm a fan. I'll keep mine around, but I'm moving more and more towards suppressors.
If the Hawkins brake was offered in 3/4-24 I would buy one of those to compare.
And that means jack shit for a brake.
They will last for the practical lifetime in stainless, and you see many people shoot tens of thousands of rounds a year without issue through bare stainless.
Cleaning Nitride brakes suck. You can't CLR them, as it will fuck up the nitride and turn them pink. So it takes a ton of work and you can never really get them clean. With Stainless just drop them in CLR for 24 hours, take out and throw in ultrasonic with clean water for 15 and you are done. Brake comes out looking new. I will never buy another nitride brake again, if raw stainless is an option.
I have a nitrided A419 Sidewinder. I put it in a pickle relish jar filled with Boretech C4. That goes in the ultrasonic filled with clean water. Run for 30 minutes. Rinse in hot water. Done. Comes out clean as a whistle with effectively zero effort.
I do the same thing with my TMB. I have no issues cleaning it.
I went from an ACE to a TMB. I don't notice the concussion and I double up ear pro so the sound is pretty tame. But I understand why it's not for everyone.
It's too bad they couldn't roll a Maverick into the testing mix up there in Canadia, eh. I've been running one for a full year, now, in the 5" braked config. It's definitely less recoil reduction than a Sidewinder (or, theoretically, the Hellfire Match, which seems to be roughly same as a Sidewinder), but it's also definitely waaaay quieter. I've thought a bit about trying an ACE to see if there's a middle ground...
I want to have my cake and eat it too.
I care more about keeping my hearing than fighting recoil, so anything with more concussion back at the shooter than the ACE is out for me.
Closeout Products | Anarchy Outdoors
www.anarchyoutdoors.com
Big sale on ATS brakes. Looks like they are closing them out so get them cheap.
I speculate as to if this is a random sale, or if Aaron Hipps may soon be releasing his revised version of theCloseout Products | Anarchy Outdoors
Big sale on ATS brakes. Looks like they are closing them out so get them cheap.
prototype sab567 tested labeled the ATS-H2.
I don't think that's the reason. When I spoke with him a few weeks ago he said it was still aways off before the H2 would be finalized and ready for production.
And to be honest, we may not even be able to feel the difference. That price is soo cheap I may have to buy a 4th.
I can understand that given only marginal differences in testing as well. If you own one of the 5/8x24 ATS brakes in 6.5cm can you tell me what the dimensions are?
Update: the brake body is 1.15 in. With the timing nut being slightly larger in size.
Update: the brake body is 1.15 in. With the timing nut being slightly larger in size.
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Have you used the ATS on 6.5mm?Closeout Products | Anarchy Outdoors
Big sale on ATS brakes. Looks like they are closing them out so get them cheap.
