Autotrickler V4 vs RCBS Matchmaster

[tydex21]

I thought this needed it’s own thread because I posted this as a reply in another and it didn’t quite belong.

So I’ve seen a lot of hate on the Matchmaster. I firmly believe the V3 and V4 are obviously better systems, but the Matchmaster is pretty good too. If you happen to receive a mil or other discount the decision becomes much more difficult if finances are a concern.

I don’t have time for video editing or a lot of testing, but I thought this was worth making a short flick and I hope this gets the point across. I’ve also compared the two with other powders (CFE223, Varget, H1K, Retumbo, and a couple others) and the results were pretty similar. For the test, I warmed up both machines, calibrated, then threw several loads with each. That is the absolute best configuration I’ve found for the Matchmaster. However, I’ve been able to speed up the V4 with the same level of accuracy using jthor’s tip. I didn’t use that for this test because I wanted to compare them at factory settings. I think the Matchmaster would prob benefit from a tip like that as well.

Long story short, I’m keeping my V4, but with a mil discount the financial disparity may not be worth it for some people.

ETA: I did use obsessed’s tray for this but don’t think it skewed the results.

 

[tydex21]

What I think the Matchmaster could use to make it a bit better and to get more people involved would be a better system to share custom load settings and support to teach people how to do it. @Team RCBS & Bushnell , any help would be appreciated!

 

[huntnh]

I’d happy with either I just wish rcbs would of kept the powder drain on the side. Thanks for the comparison video with the discount the rcbs looks like a great option

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Have you compared the scales to each other?

 

[tydex21]

Have you compared the scales to each other?

Yeah, and I did a small one at the end of the video. The rcbs one is pretty damn close. Usually within .02 of each other. I have a set of check weights that I’ve tested them with as well. I don’t have a Sartorious or other serious scale to check them against though so take it for what it’s worth.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I thought this needed it’s own thread because I posted this as a reply in another and it didn’t quite belong.

So I’ve seen a lot of hate on the Matchmaster. I firmly believe the V3 and V4 are obviously better systems, but the Matchmaster is pretty good too. If you happen to receive a mil or other discount the decision becomes much more difficult if finances are a concern.

I don’t have time for video editing or a lot of testing, but I thought this was worth making a short flick and I hope this gets the point across. I’ve also compared the two with other powders (CFE223, Varget, H1K, Retumbo, and a couple others) and the results were pretty similar. For the test, I warmed up both machines, calibrated, then threw several loads with each. That is the absolute best configuration I’ve found for the Matchmaster. However, I’ve been able to speed up the V4 with the same level of accuracy using jthor’s tip. I didn’t use that for this test because I wanted to compare them at factory settings. I think the Matchmaster would prob benefit from a tip like that as well.

Long story short, I’m keeping my V4, but with a mil discount the financial disparity may not be worth it for some people.

ETA: I did use obsessed’s tray for this but don’t think it skewed the results.

How much powder do you have stuck in between the slats?

 

[Baron23]

I thought this needed it’s own thread because I posted this as a reply in another and it didn’t quite belong.

So I’ve seen a lot of hate on the Matchmaster. I firmly believe the V3 and V4 are obviously better systems, but the Matchmaster is pretty good too. If you happen to receive a mil or other discount the decision becomes much more difficult if finances are a concern.

I don’t have time for video editing or a lot of testing, but I thought this was worth making a short flick and I hope this gets the point across. I’ve also compared the two with other powders (CFE223, Varget, H1K, Retumbo, and a couple others) and the results were pretty similar. For the test, I warmed up both machines, calibrated, then threw several loads with each. That is the absolute best configuration I’ve found for the Matchmaster. However, I’ve been able to speed up the V4 with the same level of accuracy using jthor’s tip. I didn’t use that for this test because I wanted to compare them at factory settings. I think the Matchmaster would prob benefit from a tip like that as well.

Long story short, I’m keeping my V4, but with a mil discount the financial disparity may not be worth it for some people.

ETA: I did use obsessed’s tray for this but don’t think it skewed the results.

On the MatchMaster....you ran in normal mode, right? Not match mode which is supposed to be more accurate (and, slower...maybe?)

I do have a MatchMaster, I do have a DD214 so the price became much more reasonable, and I liked that it was an integrated unit with one belly button to push (RCBS) vs the Autotrickler was V3 only at that time, was composed of components from diff manufacturers, was not very physically integrated at all, and was much more than I paid for the RCBS MM with mil discount.

It seems to work very well for my purposes but have to agree with @huntnh that the drain system is just stupid. Forget the little plastic tube they give you. I just pick the whole unit up and put the drain over a one quart measuring cup and open the port to empty.

Also, they should fire whoever selected an LED alpha/numeric display that requires an table in the owner's manual to interpret because there aren't enough segments to display some alpha/numerics properly. In fucking 2021....this should NOT be an issue, IMO.

And I agree with @tydex21 that it would be very helpful if RCBS or some sort of owner's group published customized settings. I haven't mess with customizing the MM...I guess I could speed it up but I'm an old guy, retired, don't compete so I'm not on a clock after work reloading for the weekend match, so its not much of an issue to me, personally.

Cheers

Cheers and thanks.

 

[tydex21]

On the MatchMaster....you ran in normal mode, right? Not match mode which is supposed to be more accurate (and, slower...maybe?)

I do have a MatchMaster, I do have a DD214 so the price became much more reasonable, and I liked that it was an integrated unit with one belly button to push (RCBS) vs the Autotrickler was V3 only at that time, was composed of components from diff manufacturers, was not very physically integrated at all, and was much more than I paid for the RCBS MM with mil discount.

It seems to work very well for my purposes but have to agree with @huntnh that the drain system is just stupid. Forget the little plastic tube they give you. I just pick the whole unit up and put the drain over a one quart measuring cup and open the port to empty.

Also, they should fire whoever selected an LED alpha/numeric display that requires an table in the owner's manual to interpret because there aren't enough segments to display some alpha/numerics properly. In fucking 2021....this should NOT be an issue, IMO.

And I agree with @tydex21 that it would be very helpful if RCBS or some sort of owner's group published customized settings. I haven't mess with customizing the MM...I guess I could speed it up but I'm an old guy, retired, don't compete so I'm not on a clock after work reloading for the weekend match, so its not much of an issue to me, personally.

Cheers

Cheers and thanks.

This is in a custom mode, but is still match mode so I should, in theory, get speed and precision. The results from the video are typical for that setup. The time is nearly always less than 20 seconds and can be as fast as 10.

Yeah, the empty mode was much better on the chargemaster and I agree with you 100% that the interface on the Matchmaster itself is shit. The app is okay, but @Team RCBS & Bushnell are a pretty large company…that should be nothing more than an update to make it much, much better. It’s pain to do a ladder test with it because you can’t (to my knowledge) just add or drop weight. You have to completely reconfigure.

 

[CK1.0]

For those who have used both: which one overthrows less often..?

Seems like the V4 is plagued by frequent overthrows unless one also adds the Ingenuity Precision trickler... but at that point, one is near what it costs for two MatchMasters.

IMHO possibly the only thing more annoying than dropping/trickling powder manually is spending a good chunk of loot on a fancy auto-dropper, only to have it still take nearly as long and be nearly as annoying due to constant overthrows...

 

[StaveyIL]

I’ve only just setup my V4. I have also only used it for H4350 . For me it weighs to the grain 99.9% of the time . I think some people must expect the trickler to split grains ? I did buy my scale from CE pre-programmed. Not sure if that matters. That being said I couldn’t imagine anyone being unhappy with either, from what I’ve seen. I will say my V4 is dropping 41.3 grains in about 10 seconds . I use 2 cups. By the time the first cup is dumped the other is ready to go. Definitely faster than my rcbs charge master 1500. No personal experience with the matchmaster .

 

[tydex21]

My results with the V4 have been phenomenal. My overthrows are few and far between and where I have them, they are usually no more than .04 over. The video I posted above was not edited and I didn’t have multiple cuts. I don’t have time for that and I’m not selling anything. I just wanted people to have the info. If the Matchmaster and V4 are similarly priced for you it’s a no-brainer imo. However, if you have any discounts or catch a sale I think the decision is much more difficult and would have no hesitation running the Matchmaster if finances were a concern.

 

[tydex21]

For those who have used both: which one overthrows less often..?

Seems like the V4 is plagued by frequent overthrows unless one also adds the Ingenuity Precision trickler... but at that point, one is near what it costs for two MatchMasters.

IMHO possibly the only thing more annoying than dropping/trickling powder manually is spending a good chunk of loot on a fancy auto-dropper, only to have it still take nearly as long and be nearly as annoying due to constant overthrows...

I just realized I didn’t fully answer your question. I was looking for a balance in my tuning; speed and precision. I’m okay with small overthrows if they are infrequent and not excessive if I’m getting the speed I want. I’m happy with anything less than 20 seconds. That being said, you can set up both of these machines to almost never overthrow. My son has my Matchmaster now (and he’s used it the entire time I had it) and he runs it in a slower configuration in match mode and damn near never had overthrows. His average drop is around 25-30 seconds.

 

[CK1.0]

I just realized I didn’t fully answer your question. I was looking for a balance in my tuning; speed and precision. I’m okay with small overthrows if they are infrequent and not excessive if I’m getting the speed I want. I’m happy with anything less than 20 seconds. That being said, you can set up both of these machines to almost never overthrow. My son has my Matchmaster now (and he’s used it the entire time I had it) and he runs it in a slower configuration in match mode and damn near never had overthrows. His average drop is around 25-30 seconds.

Awesome info, thanks!

I don’t care about waiting a few extra seconds per drop, I just don’t want to constantly have to throw them over again or break out the tweezers if they’re over.

I’m waiting on what the RCBS LEO discount is… that’ll probably be the deciding factor. I don’t know if I’d go for a MM over an AT4 if paying full price.

 

[cwinner]

What I think the Matchmaster could use to make it a bit better and to get more people involved would be a better system to share custom load settings and support to teach people how to do it. @Team RCBS & Bushnell , any help would be appreciated!

Hell YES! I just bought a pair of these and am unimpressed at this point as I've spent over 1 1/2 hours tweaking shit I know nothing about in an attempt to match the precision and speed I was getting with my V1 autotrickler!

My V1 stepper motor finally quit after 6 years and I'm waiting in line for a V4 so thought I'd give the new match master a try.

You'd think that RCBS would publish suggested starting points for various load ranges of popular match powers..... I'm not alone with wanting to throw 42.5 gr of H4350 so why should I have to start from scratch with unique combination of no less than 6 variables I've got no idea how to optimize.....

 

[CK1.0]

RCBS LEO/MIL pricing on the Match Master isn’t as great as I was hoping… ends up only being ~$50 less than the everyman street price (maybe the same with free shipping).

My caveman cost-benefit analysis tells me I'd be better off spending a little more and getting an AT4.

ETA: LEO/MIL discounts that exclude vets/retired are weak as fuck. I told my buddy about the discount and he couldn’t get it because he’s retired. Nothing says “thank you for your service” like ”you don’t get the discount”.

 

[CMP70306]

I bought the Matchmaster and hated it so much that I returned it and bought the AD scale to double check my charge master while I waited for the V4 to be released.

Everything about the Matchmaster was a pain in the ass from the app not working to the powder getting stuck in the bushings around the trickle tubes to the ball powder getting stuck in the drain port and ending up all over the table to the fact that it only ran a few seconds faster than my regular charge master for almost triple the price. My V4 beats the Matchmaster in every conceivable metric that it isn’t even a fair comparison in my opinion.

Maybe newer versions of the Matchmaster are better than the 2020 version but there is no way I would buy another one at this point.

 

[John Glidewell]

The V4 is not plagued lol. Just follow the instructions. The tip and shims help. Most issues being reported are self inflicted.

 

[cwinner]

The V4 is not plagued lol. Just follow the instructions. The tip and shims help. Most issues being reported are self inflicted.

Here are the instructions...... please help me throw 42.5g H4350 consistently, preferably in less than 20 seconds but I'd guess I could settle for 30.


What do I set the variables D,E,F,G,H&I to for one of the most popular match powders? There a lots of good videos online where RCBS techs show how to change numbers and even show some impressive speeds but why they don't share the variables used is beyond me!

 

[tydex21]

Here are the instructions...... please help me throw 42.5g H4350 consistently, preferably in less than 20 seconds but I'd guess I could settle for 30.


What do I set the variables D,E,F,G,H&I to for one of the most popular match powders? There a lots of good videos online where RCBS techs show how to change numbers and even show some impressive speeds but why they don't share the variables used is beyond me!

@Team RCBS & Bushnell , anything in the works to help us out?

I listed my settings in the video I made in the comments. Try this and let me know. I have a couple other that work as well.

This is a bit hard to write so I’ll just give all the numbers in order:
Large tube:
12
15
Small tube:
19
Long trickle:
3
3
25
Short trickle:
1
4

 

[Baron23]

RCBS LEO/MIL pricing on the Match Master isn’t as great as I was hoping… ends up only being ~$50 less than the everyman street price (maybe the same with free shipping).

My caveman cost-benefit analysis tells me I'd be better off spending a little more and getting an AT4.

ETA: LEO/MIL discounts that exclude vets/retired are weak as fuck. I told my buddy about the discount and he couldn’t get it because he’s retired. Nothing says “thank you for your service” like ”you don’t get the discount”.

Then they changed the program because I got the discount as a vet and the discount was very significant.

 

[John Glidewell]

Here are the instructions...... please help me throw 42.5g H4350 consistently, preferably in less than 20 seconds but I'd guess I could settle for 30.


What do I set the variables D,E,F,G,H&I to for one of the most popular match powders? There a lots of good videos online where RCBS techs show how to change numbers and even show some impressive speeds but why they don't share the variables used is beyond me!

That is for the RCBS thing not a V4, can't help with that.

 

[tydex21]

Then they changed the program because I got the discount as a vet and the discount was very significant.

Yeah, I’m not sure what he’s seeing because I just looked again and it’s pretty freaking significant. Much more than just shipping.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I bought the Matchmaster and hated it so much that I returned it and bought the AD scale to double check my charge master while I waited for the V4 to be released.

How does the Charge Master scale compare to the AD scale?

 

[CMP70306]

How does the Charge Master scale compare to the AD scale?

Significantly more variation of up to +/- 0.2gr or sometimes more. Sometimes it would be dead on, the next charge would be +0.1gr then the next would be -0.2gr then back to dead on again. Spent a lot of time correcting the chargemaster throws to get them right after I got the AD scale.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Significantly more variation of up to +/- 0.2gr or sometimes more. Sometimes it would be dead on, the next charge would be +0.1gr then the next would be -0.2gr then back to dead on again. Spent a lot of time correcting the chargemaster throws to get them right after I got the AD scale.

Overthrows or was it the accuracy of the Charge Mater that was over/under? Meaning if the Charge Mater read 36.0 grains, would the AD also read 36.0 grains OR would the Charge Master show 36.0 grains but the AD would read 36.2 or 35.8. I'm mostly curious about the actual accuracy of the Charge Master.

 

[CMP70306]

Overthrows or was it the accuracy of the Charge Mater that was over/under? Meaning if the Charge Mater read 36.0 grains, would the AD also read 36.0 grains OR would the Charge Master show 36.0 grains but the AD would read 36.2 or 35.8. I'm mostly curious about the actual accuracy of the Charge Master.

Accuracy, that was variation shown on the AD while the Chargemaster read the the same charge.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Accuracy, that was variation shown on the AD while the Chargemaster read the the same charge.

Thanks. Probably going to keep the arriving V4 for that reason.

 

[CMP70306]

Thanks. Probably going to keep the arriving V4 for that reason.

I definitely prefer the V4 to the chargemaster, even if I get an over throw or two that I have to correct I’m still saving an average of 30+ seconds per charge so I still come out way ahead time wise in the long run.

I was using the Hornady AP press to load 6.5 Creedmoor and for the most part it easily kept up with my pace of loading the brass on the shell plate and the bullet in the Matchmaster die.

 

[tydex21]

Significantly more variation of up to +/- 0.2gr or sometimes more. Sometimes it would be dead on, the next charge would be +0.1gr then the next would be -0.2gr then back to dead on again. Spent a lot of time correcting the chargemaster throws to get them right after I got the AD scale

The Matchmaster scale has been a completely different story for me. I’ve compared the two (A&D) back and multiple times over a couple months and the Matchmaster is always within .02 of the A&D. I would need a better scale to compare the two more than that.

 

[CMP70306]

The Matchmaster scale has been a completely different story for me. I’ve compared the two (A&D) back and multiple times over a couple months and the Matchmaster is always within .02 of the A&D. I would need a better scale to compare the two more than that.

The above with with the original chargemaster I bought back in 2013, I never had the Matchmaster and the AD at the same time to compare as I returned the Matchmaster to buy the V4. The Matchmaster was definitely more accurate than the chargemaster but was such a pain to use that I returned it.

 

[Team RCBS & Bushnell]

RCBS LEO/MIL pricing on the Match Master isn’t as great as I was hoping… ends up only being ~$50 less than the everyman street price (maybe the same with free shipping).

My caveman cost-benefit analysis tells me I'd be better off spending a little more and getting an AT4.

ETA: LEO/MIL discounts that exclude vets/retired are weak as fuck. I told my buddy about the discount and he couldn’t get it because he’s retired. Nothing says “thank you for your service” like ”you don’t get the discount”.

The discount group on the site is the same for LEO/MIL/Vets/Retired. The Matchmaster is a MAP product. Where are you finding it somewhere for even close to the what the VIP price is? The VIP price on the Matchmaster thrower is significant. VIP is absolutely open to your retired buddy.

 

[Team RCBS & Bushnell]

@Team RCBS & Bushnell , anything in the works to help us out?

I listed my settings in the video I made in the comments. Try this and let me know. I have a couple other that work as well.

This is a bit hard to write so I’ll just give all the numbers in order:
Large tube:
12
15
Small tube:
19
Long trickle:
3
3
25
Short trickle:
1
4

I'll ask the Product Manager and see if I can get an answer back for you.

 

[CK1.0]

The discount group on the site is the same for LEO/MIL/Vets/Retired. The Matchmaster is a MAP product. Where are you finding it somewhere for even close to the what the VIP price is? The VIP price on the Matchmaster thrower is significant. VIP is absolutely open to your retired buddy.

He told me he submitted pics of his credentials and never heard anything back… checked the site and saw it said “active” and figured it was because he retired.

Says “active” here: https://www.rcbs.com/vip-program

33% off MSRP is what I was told, ends up ~$750 + shipping, MidwayUSA had them for $800 with free shipping last month?

 

[Baron23]

I'll ask the Product Manager and see if I can get an answer back for you.

Hello RCBS - I have had one of your Match Masters from, I believe, soon after it was released and I am happy with it.

I do have the following suggestions for your Product Manager to consider, some of which have already been mentioned:

1. I agree that RCBS should create and make available custom optimizations for major popular powders. Sorry, but screwing around with a rather large set of variables, hoping to hit a combo that speeds up the drop but does not lose accuracy, is just not something the average home reloader will want to take on. At least I have not and just run the default.

2. Please do something about that ridiculous plastic straw for emptying the powder reservoir. Frankly, its junk and will absolutely fall off and spill powder everywhere went trying to empty the unit (ask me how I know). After my first and only experience with the "straw", I now hold the entire unit over a measuring cup and empty directly into that and then empty the cup into my powder bottle. For the price of this unit, VIP notwithstanding, something better should be provided, IMO.

3. Please put an LED main display in the unit that actually shows all alphanumeric characters fully so you don't need to have a dang look up table to try to understand what the unit is trying to say. Seriously, 14 or 16 segment full character displays are a dime a dozen and I find it baffling why RCBS incorporated a 7 segment display that has to have a table to understand that its trying to show the letter M...for just one example. If you (personally) haven't yet, go to page 16 in the manual and look at that table...some characters are fairly easy to understand and some...like the letter Z are entirely baffling.

I still like my Match Master. I like that its a well integrated unit and with the VIP program the price was reasonable compared to other higher end powder drop/scale options. But I do suggest that RCBS look seriously at these three items for future revisions.

 

[Team RCBS & Bushnell]

He told me he submitted pics of his credentials and never heard anything back… checked the site and saw it said “active” and figured it was because he retired.

Says “active” here: https://www.rcbs.com/vip-program

33% off MSRP is what I was told, ends up ~$750 + shipping, MidwayUSA had them for $800 with free shipping last month?

He needs to log in and look. In almost all these cases they were approved in within a day or two.

All active, retired, veteran etc. eligible. I can work on the language on the site to make it more clear.

Pricing on VIP is not advertised and it's not a set rate. The only way to know what the price on something is, is to log in and see as a VIP. We don't and won't advertise it. It's most certainly not $750, and shipping is free on the site for orders over $40.

 

[Team RCBS & Bushnell]

Hello RCBS - I have had one of your Match Masters from, I believe, soon after it was released and I am happy with it.

I do have the following suggestions for your Product Manager to consider, some of which have already been mentioned:

1. I agree that RCBS should create and make available custom optimizations for major popular powders. Sorry, but screwing around with a rather large set of variables, hoping to hit a combo that speeds up the drop but does not lose accuracy, is just not something the average home reloader will want to take on. At least I have not and just run the default.

2. Please do something about that ridiculous plastic straw for emptying the powder reservoir. Frankly, its junk and will absolutely fall off and spill powder everywhere went trying to empty the unit (ask me how I know). After my first and only experience with the "straw", I now hold the entire unit over a measuring cup and empty directly into that and then empty the cup into my powder bottle. For the price of this unit, VIP notwithstanding, something better should be provided, IMO.

3. Please put an LED main display in the unit that actually shows all alphanumeric characters fully so you don't need to have a dang look up table to try to understand what the unit is trying to say. Seriously, 14 or 16 segment full character displays are a dime a dozen and I find it baffling why RCBS incorporated a 7 segment display that has to have a table to understand that its trying to show the letter M...for just one example. If you (personally) haven't yet, go to page 16 in the manual and look at that table...some characters are fairly easy to understand and some...like the letter Z are entirely baffling.

I still like my Match Master. I like that its a well integrated unit and with the VIP program the price was reasonable compared to other higher end powder drop/scale options. But I do suggest that RCBS look seriously at these three items for future revisions.

Thanks for the input! I'll get this directly to the product management team.

 

[Baron23]

He told me he submitted pics of his credentials and never heard anything back… checked the site and saw it said “active” and figured it was because he retired.

Says “active” here: https://www.rcbs.com/vip-program

33% off MSRP is what I was told, ends up ~$750 + shipping, MidwayUSA had them for $800 with free shipping last month?

He needs to log in and look. In almost all these cases they were approved in within a day or two.

All active, retired, veteran etc. eligible. I can work on the language on the site to make it more clear.

Pricing on VIP is not advertised and it's not a set rate. The only way to know what the price on something is, is to log in and see as a VIP. We don't and won't advertise it. It's most certainly not $750, and shipping is free on the site for orders over $40.

RCBS - So, if its MAP, how can Midway advertise it for $899...discounted from list of $1,123.95?

CK1.0 - As for the VIP program....I just looked again and the price (which I will NOT share in respect to RCBS honoring my mil service and asking for it to be confidential) is much lower.

And, if you look at the VIP program page...to me, its pretty clear. You select applicant type (in this case, "armed service member") then pick applicant role (which lists "active", "veteran", or "spouse". Your friend should be able to immediately see if he is in the VIP program as the site will show list for a product and the VIP pricing.

Your friend may need to up his reading comprehension...it looks very clear to me. And if he didn't get a response...did he reach out to RCBS thru their support page?

Cheers and best of luck to all.

 

[Team RCBS & Bushnell]

RCBS - So, if its MAP, how can Midway advertise it for $899...discounted from list of $1,123.95?

CK1.0 - As for the VIP program....I just looked again and the price (which I will NOT share in respect to RCBS honoring my mil service and asking for it to be confidential) is much lower.

And, if you look at the VIP program page...to me, its pretty clear. You select applicant type (in this case, "armed service member") then pick applicant role (which lists "active", "veteran", or "spouse". Your friend should be able to immediately see if he is in the VIP program as the site will show list for a product and the VIP pricing.

Your friend may need to up his reading comprehension...it looks very clear to me. And if he didn't get a response...did he reach out to RCBS thru their support page?

Cheers and best of luck to all.

The MAP on the Matchmaster is $899, not the MSRP. The Chargemaster Link's is $299.99, and the Chargemaster Supreme is $429.99. Those are the actual prices you will see openly most of the time on all three of those.

 

[CK1.0]

@Team RCBS & Bushnell thanks for the follow up… my bad, I logged in and sure enough the VIP price was too good to pass up.

My buddy has probably never tried to log in to see if he’s all set or not (sounds like he probably is)… I’ll have him give it a try.

Thanks.

 

[cwinner]

@Team RCBS & Bushnell , anything in the works to help us out?

I listed my settings in the video I made in the comments. Try this and let me know. I have a couple other that work as well.

This is a bit hard to write so I’ll just give all the numbers in order:
Large tube:
12
15
Small tube:
19
Long trickle:
3
3
25
Short trickle:
1
4

Thank you for sharing these settings..... they are definitely a better ballpark that what I was messing with.... I programmed each unit the same and they are a bit different but both are now <20 seconds with weights pretty consistent.

I'm hoping RCBS can help fine tune them a bit more and I can understand why each unit may be different, the way the powder clumps sometimes and how many grains drop is a huge variable that would be hard to control but obviously some folks have figured it out!

Thanks again,

 

[Team RCBS & Bushnell]

What I think the Matchmaster could use to make it a bit better and to get more people involved would be a better system to share custom load settings and support to teach people how to do it. @Team RCBS & Bushnell , any help would be appreciated!

Copy/Paste from the product team below:

Currently working on this with APP Developer to allow users to share custom powder settings amongst themselves. Currently only RCBS Admin has the ability to share custom powder settings. Reason for this is we can filter through the settings and only share those that work. Using another users settings is a great starting point; however, it is possible that it will run better or worse in your machine.

 

[Team RCBS & Bushnell]

This is in a custom mode, but is still match mode so I should, in theory, get speed and precision. The results from the video are typical for that setup. The time is nearly always less than 20 seconds and can be as fast as 10.

Yeah, the empty mode was much better on the chargemaster and I agree with you 100% that the interface on the Matchmaster itself is shit. The app is okay, but @Team RCBS & Bushnell are a pretty large company…that should be nothing more than an update to make it much, much better. It’s pain to do a ladder test with it because you can’t (to my knowledge) just add or drop weight. You have to completely reconfigure.

From the product team:

• Custom mode should allow for the user to dispense consistently in as fast as 10-15 seconds, to an accuracy of +/ 0.04 grains. The user must keep in mind that powder kernel weights vary from 0.02-0.04 grains for many popular extruded powders.
• The problem with sharing custom powder settings is the simple fact that all machines are slightly different, so a set of parameters that works well in one unit may or may not work well in another.
• We do have some shared custom configurations that will show up in the App under Powder Settings. If customers request parameters for a specific powder we can create and share a custom configuration and share. Keep in mind this is only a starting point and may need to be adjusted slightly.
• Currently working with APP Developer to make it easier for user to modify parameters when using the APP. This will give the user the ability to change parameters and then run a test dispense first before saving, if undesirable the parameters can be modified and another test can be run. This can continue until the user achieves the desired set of parameters, A-I.
• Powder drain underneath was done clean up the look of the unit, and to make it easier to evacuate the powder. Angle tube had tendency to hold onto powder whereas the straight drop minimizes this. The Drain Tube is not needed if draining into larger container. Tube provided for those who want to drain back into original container. Regardless if Matchmaster or Chargemaster the container catching the drained powder is required to be off the bench. Always a good idea to use compressed or canned air to ensure all residual powder is removed from dispenser.

 

[Team RCBS & Bushnell]

@Team RCBS & Bushnell , anything in the works to help us out?

I listed my settings in the video I made in the comments. Try this and let me know. I have a couple other that work as well.

This is a bit hard to write so I’ll just give all the numbers in order:
Large tube:
12
15
Small tube:
19
Long trickle:
3
3
25
Short trickle:
1
4

From the product team:

Shared Custom Powder Configuration for H4350 (42.5 grains)
• A= 2 (For Extruded type powders)
• B = 0 (Match Mode = +/- .04gns)
• C = 1 (Grains)
• D = 15 (LG. Tube Operation, i.e., if Charge weight is lower then D, Lg. Tube will either trickle or not dispense)
• E = 04 (LG. Tube Stop Point at 04 this is 2 grains from target)
• F=25 (SM. Tube constant rotation Stop Point at 25 this is .5 grains from target)
• G1 = 4 (Angle of Rotation at 4 the tube will rotate for 500 milliseconds.)
• G2= 1 (Response time before next rotation, at 1 the dwell will be 500 milliseconds)
• H = 06 (Transition from Long Trickle G1 & G2 to start of Short Trickle I1 & I2. At 06 this is .12 grains from Target)
• I1 = 3 (Angle of Rotation at 3 the tube will rotate for 100 milliseconds.)
• I2 = 1 (Response time before next rotation, at 1 the dwell will be 500 milliseconds)

 

[CK1.0]

It’s good to know that they’re still working on improving it, especially the App, because as with most stuff the interface on the phone/tablet is better than what’s available on the unit.

That said, does anyone have good settings to start with for SW Precision Rifle (like Varget, but more randomly sized sticks)..?

 

[tydex21]

From the product team:

Shared Custom Powder Configuration for H4350 (42.5 grains)
• A= 2 (For Extruded type powders)
• B = 0 (Match Mode = +/- .04gns)
• C = 1 (Grains)
• D = 15 (LG. Tube Operation, i.e., if Charge weight is lower then D, Lg. Tube will either trickle or not dispense)
• E = 04 (LG. Tube Stop Point at 04 this is 2 grains from target)
• F=25 (SM. Tube constant rotation Stop Point at 25 this is .5 grains from target)
• G1 = 4 (Angle of Rotation at 4 the tube will rotate for 500 milliseconds.)
• G2= 1 (Response time before next rotation, at 1 the dwell will be 500 milliseconds)
• H = 06 (Transition from Long Trickle G1 & G2 to start of Short Trickle I1 & I2. At 06 this is .12 grains from Target)
• I1 = 3 (Angle of Rotation at 3 the tube will rotate for 100 milliseconds.)
• I2 = 1 (Response time before next rotation, at 1 the dwell will be 500 milliseconds)

Thanks for the reply! I’ll test it out!

 

[tydex21]

From the product team:

• Custom mode should allow for the user to dispense consistently in as fast as 10-15 seconds, to an accuracy of +/ 0.04 grains. The user must keep in mind that powder kernel weights vary from 0.02-0.04 grains for many popular extruded powders.
• The problem with sharing custom powder settings is the simple fact that all machines are slightly different, so a set of parameters that works well in one unit may or may not work well in another.
• We do have some shared custom configurations that will show up in the App under Powder Settings. If customers request parameters for a specific powder we can create and share a custom configuration and share. Keep in mind this is only a starting point and may need to be adjusted slightly.
• Currently working with APP Developer to make it easier for user to modify parameters when using the APP. This will give the user the ability to change parameters and then run a test dispense first before saving, if undesirable the parameters can be modified and another test can be run. This can continue until the user achieves the desired set of parameters, A-I.
• Powder drain underneath was done clean up the look of the unit, and to make it easier to evacuate the powder. Angle tube had tendency to hold onto powder whereas the straight drop minimizes this. The Drain Tube is not needed if draining into larger container. Tube provided for those who want to drain back into original container. Regardless if Matchmaster or Chargemaster the container catching the drained powder is required to be off the bench. Always a good idea to use compressed or canned air to ensure all residual powder is removed from dispenser.

I’ve been very impressed and happy with your product overall and this reply has just increased my support. Thanks so much for the update and I look forward to seeing the outcomes!!!

 

[cwinner]

From the product team:

Shared Custom Powder Configuration for H4350 (42.5 grains)
• A= 2 (For Extruded type powders)
• B = 0 (Match Mode = +/- .04gns)
• C = 1 (Grains)
• D = 15 (LG. Tube Operation, i.e., if Charge weight is lower then D, Lg. Tube will either trickle or not dispense)
• E = 04 (LG. Tube Stop Point at 04 this is 2 grains from target)
• F=25 (SM. Tube constant rotation Stop Point at 25 this is .5 grains from target)
• G1 = 4 (Angle of Rotation at 4 the tube will rotate for 500 milliseconds.)
• G2= 1 (Response time before next rotation, at 1 the dwell will be 500 milliseconds)
• H = 06 (Transition from Long Trickle G1 & G2 to start of Short Trickle I1 & I2. At 06 this is .12 grains from Target)
• I1 = 3 (Angle of Rotation at 3 the tube will rotate for 100 milliseconds.)
• I2 = 1 (Response time before next rotation, at 1 the dwell will be 500 milliseconds)

I loaded these setting this evening and much better performance, I was messing with the wrong variables and trying to max the speed up to the target weight and not allowing the scale enough time to react to the dropping kernels...... what I noticed with both of the suggested settings in this thread was a much smoother transition from the large to small tubes and stopping short of the target to allow for the final few kernels to drop.

Do the G1 and I1 variables change the slope of the tube or just the length of time the tube spins? If I want to slow down this last part to help with the few overthrows do I increase or decrease these variables?

Right now both units are +/- 15 seconds with less than 10% overthrows and usually only slightly over at 42.6 the worst I've seen so they are working way better and will almost allow me to keep up with my progressive while dumping precise charge weights which was my goal.

Thanks,

 

[beenjammin]

OP we appreciate the time and money invested to bring us videos like this. I honestly would have not guessed the RCBS to be that good.

 

[Team RCBS & Bushnell]

I loaded these setting this evening and much better performance, I was messing with the wrong variables and trying to max the speed up to the target weight and not allowing the scale enough time to react to the dropping kernels...... what I noticed with both of the suggested settings in this thread was a much smoother transition from the large to small tubes and stopping short of the target to allow for the final few kernels to drop.

Do the G1 and I1 variables change the slope of the tube or just the length of time the tube spins? If I want to slow down this last part to help with the few overthrows do I increase or decrease these variables?

Right now both units are +/- 15 seconds with less than 10% overthrows and usually only slightly over at 42.6 the worst I've seen so they are working way better and will almost allow me to keep up with my progressive while dumping precise charge weights which was my goal.

Thanks,

Long reply inbound!

I loaded these setting this evening and much better performance, I was messing with the wrong variables and trying to max the speed up to the target weight and not allowing the scale enough time to react to the dropping kernels...... what I noticed with both of the suggested settings in this thread was a much smoother transition from the large to small tubes and stopping short of the target to allow for the final few kernels to drop. (Exactly, its better to set your parameters far enough away from target and not too close to each other so you can visualize each of the operations and get a good feel for the dispense rate of powder and how each parameter is affecting. After that, it is much easier to begin fine tuning the parameters and creep in towards your target charge weight, so ideally its very efficient moving from one parameter to the next, thus yielding the shortest dispense times)

Do the G1 and I1 variables change the slope of the tube or just the length of time the tube spins? (No, just the length of time the tube will rotate without stopping. The slope of the tubes between original units and newer units is slightly different. Original release we had 6.5° angled tubes, we since changed to 0° angle tubes. No benefit of one over the other, only done for manufacturing and cost purposes. This is important as the parameters are different for each of these, so if working on a set of parameters, one needs to know if it is an angled or non-angled Matchmaster.)

If I want to slow down this last part to help with the few overthrows do I increase or decrease these variables? (Great question, and these are the most important of all the parameters as these two can alter the powder profile in the tube. Example: Ideally the powder in the tube is all the same level, thus when the small tube is tricking just a few kernels roll out at a time versus having large peaks and valleys of a powder profile and when the tube trickles very little to no powder comes out, then on the next trickle, quite a lot of kernels fall out causing the overcharge condition. This can be controlled, to an extent, with the G1 & G2 Parameter (Long Trickle). G1 is the amount of rotation the tube will rotate, it is controlled by time. If 0 is entered for G1, the tube will rotate for 100 ms or .100 seconds. If you put the max of 9 in for G1 the tube will rotate without stopping for 1.000 seconds. G2 is the dwell or response time in between the rotations set by G1. If G2 is set to 0, the dwell time is .250 seconds. The dwell time is important, especially with I2, because this is the short trickle and you want to ensure you account for enough dwell time to ensure the scale is stabilized prior to the tube rotating again. You can use these values to level out the powder profile, mentioned previously, in order to obtain a more consistent trickle dispense, by running your G1 at 0-2 and your G2 at 0. This creates a more snappy start and stop which helps in leveling the powder profile within the tube. This is not always necessary but for some powder types and climate conditions, high humidity, this is helpful. I1 is very similar to G1, with the exception that the lowest value of I1 set to 0 will allow the tube to rotate for only 25ms or .025s and the highest value of 9 will allow the tube to rotate for .225 seconds. I1 is more precise than that of G1. The dwell time; however, is the same for both G2 and I2, where a setting of 0 will result in a dwell of 250ms or .250 seconds and 9 would be 2.5 seconds.

Right now both units are +/- 15 seconds with less than 10% overthrows and usually only slightly over at 42.6 the worst I've seen so they are working way better and will almost allow me to keep up with my progressive while dumping precise charge weights which was my goal. (You can definitely improve on this and the values I shared where good on my machine, but not perfect. It takes a little time getting a good set of parameters set up, but once you do it a few times and you can see how device is dispensing you get good at knowing exactly what parameters to adjust in order to yield the results you want and the parameter adjustment gets easier. Little long, but hope this helps if not please let us know.)

 

[Baron23]

Do the G1 and I1 variables change the slope of the tube or just the length of time the tube spins? (No, just the length of time the tube will rotate without stopping. The slope of the tubes between original units and newer units is slightly different. Original release we had 6.5° angled tubes, we since changed to 0° angle tubes. No benefit of one over the other, only done for manufacturing and cost purposes. This is important as the parameters are different for each of these, so if working on a set of parameters, one needs to know if it is an angled or non-angled Matchmaster.)

So, are the H4350 custom parameters you posted above for angled or non-angled tube models?