AXMC barrel torque

timelinex

Gunny Sergeant
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  • May 7, 2011
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    Scottsdale,Az
    I haven't used the switching function on my AXMC and wanted to confirm what the torque was on the bolt. I think the manual says 49 in-lb. But I remember a few people, including @lowlight , mentioning they use higher (maybe 55?) and that the lower factory spec didn't show as much repeatability. This was like 5 years ago, so my memory of it is fuzzy.

    Was there any final determination?
     
    Following... would the same torque recommendation apply to the AXSA? MHSA sent along a 49 torque limiter that I’ve been using... interested in hearing other opinions. Thanks.
     
    The torque spec is 49 inch pounds for the barrel clamp. I don't know off the top of my head what the actual barrel torque value should be.

    On a recent Everyday Sniper Podcast, Marc Taylor (I think it was him) mentioned his AX accuracy increased when he cranked the barrel hard with a wrench on the flats. Doesn't sound scientific but it's worth looking in to.
     
    I'm hand tightening and cranking down 80 inch pounds. I like the strap wrench idea, especially for the shorter barrels.

    80 in/lbs may be over the torque spec for an M5 SHCS screw. It’s been a while since I checked. I do remember 60 in/lbs being under the spec.

    ETA: corrected screw size
     
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    80 in/lbs may be over the torque spec for an M6 SHCS screw. It’s been a while since I checked. I do remember 60 in/lbs being under the spec.

    At the time, I called up Mile High and asked them what they were using and that's what I mirrored. Agreed - it sounds a little stout, but haven't experienced any issues.
     
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    Thanks for all the info guys. 80 does sound high.

    I've got a Borka field kit that includes a driver that goes up to 85 in/lb so all should be good.

    Unless alot more people chime in with other convincing info, it sounds like 55 in/lb should be a good start.

    Anyone find hand tightening the barrel to be insufficient? It seems like only one person mentioned something about using a wrench.
     
    It’s an M5 screw, so I think 80 in-lbs is flirting with or exceeding the yield strength.

    I have a theory as to why some users need more than 49 in-lbs, but I don’t have any real data points. More of a hunch based on what I’ve seen from some select pictures and what I’ve seen from de-bonding my AX.

    It would be interesting to do a test where you take the barrel off, then hand tighten, then torque the quick loc screw to 49 in-lbs and shoot a 5-shot group. Remove the barrel and repeat at 55 in-lbs, 60, etc. Then do the same test with the barrel tightened with a strap wrench or using the machined flats.
     
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    It’s an M5 screw, so I think 80 in-lbs is flirting with or exceeding the yield strength.

    I have a theory as to why some users need more than 49 in-lbs, but I don’t have any real data points. More of a hunch based on what I’ve seen from some select pictures and what I’ve seen from de-bonding my AX.

    It would be interesting to do a test where you take the barrel off, then hand tighten, then torque the quick loc screw to 49 in-lbs and shoot a 5-shot group. Remove the barrel and repeat at 55 in-lbs, 60, etc. Then do the same test with the barrel tightened with a strap wrench or using the machined flats.

    That definitely sounds like a solid plan. I just wanted to avoid shooting 30+ rounds of 338lm at 100 yards at the range.
     
    I just wanted to update the thread for those that arrive here by search.....

    I was doing 55 and I seemed to always get unexplained flyers. It could always be me, but I decided to try 60 and I shot a few more groups. Those groups didn't product any flyers. I can't say that it wasn't me before or just random dumb luck. But I have settled on 60 for now.

    The accuracy was good, but not as great as I've got accustomed to with my AX308. I will try to buy a strap wrench to see if that helps, as right now I am hand tightening. Maybe the 20" barrel just doesn't like 175 smk's though.
     
    I remember the thread and know after I read it, I purchased a 62 in-lb limiter. I wouldn't have come up with that on my own but it seemed many had converged to that value. I originally used 49.

    Accuracy of my AT got better but it was not earth shatteringly different. I use 62 now but still have my 49 in-lb limiter. I just got an AXMC so was interested to know if the longer barrel tenon requires a different torque value
     
    Thanks for all the info guys. 80 does sound high.

    I've got a Borka field kit that includes a driver that goes up to 85 in/lb so all should be good.

    Unless alot more people chime in with other convincing info, it sounds like 55 in/lb should be a good start.

    Anyone find hand tightening the barrel to be insufficient? It seems like only one person mentioned something about using a wrench.
    Hand tight plus 49 pounds on the little screw was insufficient for me. Barrel would loosen up. This is a 16" with no wrench flats.

    image.jpg
     
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    A while back I experimented with torquing a 28" MTU barrel into my AT compared to just hand tight on the barrel + 50 in/lb on the quickloc screw because I wasn't confident hand tight only on the barrel was enough to rigidly retain a barrel that heavy.

    I did notice a *tiny* bit better accuracy with the barrel torqued to 50 ft/lb and then tightening the quickloc screw to 50 in/lb compared to just hand tight on the barrel and then 50 in/lb on the quickloc screw, but my rifle never threw any occasional flyers or had accuracy issues with the barrel hand tight + 50 in/lb on the quickloc screw.

    Of course, doing this means you can't do a barrel change without a barrel vice and action wrench.

    I have a heavy palma 30" 300 PRC barrel on the way for my AXMC, and since I won't be swapping barrels on that rifle frequently I'll compare hand tight on the barrel + 50 in/lb on the quiclock screw to torquing the barrel to 50 ft/lb + 50 in/lb on the quickloc screw. IMO, it's hard to beat a standard torqued installation of the barrel onto the receiver for the most secure and rigid threaded joint possible, but that means no changing barrels in the field with only a hex key.

    At the very least I'd pinch the rifle between my knees and crank down on the barrel with a strap wrench, or if your barrel has wrench flats cut into it give the wrench a few smacks with the palm of your hand to snug the barrel down to the receiver before tightening the quickloc screw. Either of those methods would allow you to change barrels in the field as long as you had the strap wrench or open end wrench with you.

    Someone should find and post the video of Jacob from Rifles Only demonstrating his method of "quickchange" barrel swapping on his AW where he puts a wrench on the flats cut into the barrel and then mercilessly beats on the wrench with a hammer to loosen and then tighten the barrel. I'm sure that will make a few people cringe. :ROFLMAO:
     
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    A while back I experimented with torquing a 28" MTU barrel into my AT compared to just hand tight on the barrel + 50 in/lb on the quickloc screw because I wasn't confident hand tight only on the barrel was enough to rigidly retain a barrel that heavy.

    I did notice a *tiny* bit better accuracy with the barrel torqued to 50 ft/lb and then tightening the quickloc screw to 50 in/lb compared to just hand tight on the barrel and then 50 in/lb on the quickloc screw, but my rifle never threw any occasional flyers or had accuracy issues with the barrel hand tight + 50 in/lb on the quickloc screw.

    Of course, doing this means you can't do a barrel change without a barrel vice and action wrench.

    I have a heavy palma 30" 300 PRC barrel on the way for my AXMC, and since I won't be swapping barrels on that rifle frequently I'll compare hand tight on the barrel + 50 in/lb on the quiclock screw to torquing the barrel to 50 ft/lb + 50 in/lb on the quickloc screw. IMO, it's hard to beat a standard torqued installation of the barrel onto the receiver for the most secure and rigid threaded joint possible, but that means no changing barrels in the field with only a hex key.

    At the very least I'd pinch the rifle between my knees and crank down on the barrel with a strap wrench, or if your barrel has wrench flats cut into it give the wrench a few smacks with the palm of your hand to snug the barrel down to the receiver before tightening the quickloc screw. Either of those methods would allow you to change barrels in the field as long as you had the strap wrench or open end wrench with you.

    Someone should find and post the video of Jacob from Rifles Only demonstrating his method of "quickchange" barrel swapping on his AW where he puts a wrench on the flats cut into the barrel and then mercilessly beats on the wrench with a hammer to loosen and then tighten the barrel. I'm sure that will make a few people cringe. :ROFLMAO:

    Lol, I believe the mechanical term is "torquing the shit out of it."
     
    I have a theory that I haven't shared publicly. This is based on the research I've done on my chassis, pictures I've gathered, and inspecting the design of the QuickLoc system with my action when it's been de-bonded. It's by no means a bash on AI, just an observation and an educated guess.

    I think that there are some rifles out there with heavy-handed epoxy applied in the QuickLoc area, which prevents free movement of the QuickLoc lugs that apply the torque on the barrel tenon. I saved a picture of another SH member's AT that was de-bonded to put into an MPA chassis. You will note the visible epoxy attached to both lugs of the QuickLoc feature. This means the lugs are in effect glued to the chassis, and would obviously need much more torque to put proper tension on the barrel tenon.

    AT_De-Bonded2.jpg


    Compare that to my AX, which has much less epoxy overall, and zero epoxy on the QuickLoc lugs. I never had an issue with mine at 49 in-lbs.

    AX-De-bonded.jpg


    Unfortunately with the nature of the AI design, there's no way to determine this is the cause of your rifle's need for more QuickLoc screw torque unless you de-bond the action. Maybe if there's anyone out there needing more than 49 in-lbs that plans on upgrading to my aftermarket chassis, you will make note of this and take a couple pictures once the action is de-bonded. It would certainly be cool to put a few data points behind my theory.

    Sam
     
    Looks like brass spacers on action screws, I always wondered how they evenly spaced action to get consistent gap for epoxy.
    Yup, I use the same interface and interior dimensions on my chassis along with those brass washers.

    I had wondered the same thing, I wasn't sure if they let the epoxy cure slightly then torque it, use temporary shims, etc. Turns out the 4 brass washers is the simplest and likely best way to do it and have it be repeatable.
     
    Great pictures Sam.

    I think your working theory is plausible. Even if the epoxy between the quickloc lug and the top of the stock were to pop free of one of the surfaces while torquing the quickloc screw, the remaining blob of adhesive between the bottom surface of the quickloc lugs and the top of the stock may prevent the quickloc lugs from squeezing together properly to sufficiently grip the barrel threads.

    Workmanship on a bonded joint is important, as is proper surface prep and damming before the bond if you don't want adhesive migrating to an area you don't want it, especially if it's an area that's not accessible once the bond is completed.
     
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    @samb300 I am sure that if your new chassis goes for commercial sales you will have plenty of debonded action photos to prove or disprove the theory ?
    That would end up being cool, especially if there are any users currently needing more than the 49 in-lbs to keep things consistent. If they pull it apart and see the QuickLok lugs have epoxy on them, it would make me think it was the contributing factor.
     
    I have a theory that I haven't shared publicly. This is based on the research I've done on my chassis, pictures I've gathered, and inspecting the design of the QuickLoc system with my action when it's been de-bonded. It's by no means a bash on AI, just an observation and an educated guess.

    I think that there are some rifles out there with heavy-handed epoxy applied in the QuickLoc area, which prevents free movement of the QuickLoc lugs that apply the torque on the barrel tenon. I saved a picture of another SH member's AT that was de-bonded to put into an MPA chassis. You will note the visible epoxy attached to both lugs of the QuickLoc feature. This means the lugs are in effect glued to the chassis, and would obviously need much more torque to put proper tension on the barrel tenon.

    View attachment 7178741

    Compare that to my AX, which has much less epoxy overall, and zero epoxy on the QuickLoc lugs. I never had an issue with mine at 49 in-lbs.

    View attachment 7178744

    Unfortunately with the nature of the AI design, there's no way to determine this is the cause of your rifle's need for more QuickLoc screw torque unless you de-bond the action. Maybe if there's anyone out there needing more than 49 in-lbs that plans on upgrading to my aftermarket chassis, you will make note of this and take a couple pictures once the action is de-bonded. It would certainly be cool to put a few data points behind my theory.

    Sam

    If you remove the barrel and look at the receiver threads, then turn the locking bolt, you’ll be able to see movement or lack thereof in the split thread area.
     
    I was in the same boat as many of you. I had very random flyers and subpar accuracy out of my AXMC and Proof 6CM prefit. After reading a number of threads on locking bolt torque and listening to episode 200 of the Everyday Sniper Podcast I decide to dive deep into the issue.

    In my case, I only had .002 of movement in the action thread split with 49 inlbs of torque. I measured this by pulling the hand guard and barrel and measuring the split with feeler gauges, pre and post torque. I installed the barrel 3/4 of the way and torqued to 49inlbs and was able to easily turn the barrel by hand. I repeated this process with 55 inlbs and could still turn the barrel but could feel the action thread engaged on the barrel so I new I was heading in the right direction. With 65 inlbs i could not turn the barrel by hand anymore. So I put everything back together, screwed on the barrel by hand, but this time put a crescent wrench on the barrel flats and gave it a tap with a dead blow hammer, then torqued the locking bolt to 65 inlbs. 10 rounds later I had a beautiful 5 shot group at 100yds that was well below .5moa with factory Hornady 108 ELDs and a 2-2.5ish 5 shot group at 500yds to confirm. Time will tell if this fixed my issue permanently, but it's looking good so far.
     
    Took some measurements with my (once again) de-bonded AX short action. This is with a barrel fully installed “hand tight” with the barrel in a vise.

    I’m getting 0.015” of closure of the QuickLoc tangs when the screw is tightened down to 49 in-lb using a pre-set Fix It Stick.

    If you’re only seeing 0.002” closure at 49 in-lb (and can remove the barrel by hand) there is definitely something going on. I’m feeling more confident in my theory of epoxy preventing one (or both) of the QuickLoc tangs from moving.

    QuickLoc distance with zero torque:
    E925B43F-0A7B-4961-840D-D307A88A525F.jpeg


    QuickLoc distance with 49 in-lb torque:
    C6AC0212-2B8E-4F31-BB22-22CE9D16C0B6.jpeg
     
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    If you remove the barrel and look at the receiver threads, then turn the locking bolt, you’ll be able to see movement or lack thereof in the split thread area.

    So it might be a beneficial and simple thing for users to check, just pop the barrel off, and ensure there is plenty of easy movement in the split thread area. One could mark the locking bolt, count the turns you back off, remove the barrel and go back to where it started plus a turn or two to make sure you have free movement.
     
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    Keep in mind it would be very easy to over compress the h-cut in the receiver and possibly damage it without a barrel threaded into it... Sam's picture above shows the cut only closing 0.014" with the action removed from the stock.

    It would be very easy to exceed that amount of compression without a barrel threaded into the receiver... Which is probably why the owners manual says in big red letters in the barrel changing instructions "WARNING - DO NOT REMOVE THE CLAMPING SCREW AND DO NOT TIGHTEN THE CLAMPING SCREW WITH THE BARREL REMOVED"

    What might be a safer test is to stick a 0.100" feeler gauge into the gap in the h cut and then snug the quick lock screw and make sure it tightly pinches the feeler gauge.
     
    Keep in mind it would be very easy to over compress the h-cut in the receiver and possibly damage it without a barrel threaded into it... Sam's picture above shows the cut only closing 0.014" with the action removed from the stock.

    It would be very easy to exceed that amount of compression without a barrel threaded into the receiver... Which is probably why the owners manual says in big red letters in the barrel changing instructions "WARNING - DO NOT REMOVE THE CLAMPING SCREW AND DO NOT TIGHTEN THE CLAMPING SCREW WITH THE BARREL REMOVED"

    What might be a safer test is to stick a 0.100" feeler gauge into the gap in the h cut and then snug the quick lock screw and make sure it tightly pinches the feeler gauge.

    What is the danger of removing the clamping screw though? I get torquing it down without a barrel threaded in