Backup Red Dots

[ut755ln]

Rather than harass strangers at the range, I thought I would ask the question here. I have seen a couple of people running double red dots. Do they do this just as a backup or is there some advantage to it that I am unaware of?

I have a 16" AR with a 1-6 LPVO and an RMR and it certainly helps with faster transitions and not having to hit the throw lever. But I have seen a couple of Eotechs with something small like an RMR.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Double red dots as in a vertical and offset dot? Did these people look like USPSA shooters?
There are some benefits to an offset dot for competition, you can have two different zero distances, there can be hard lean situations where canting the gun is far more intuitive than keeping it upright, and there can be forced weak shoulder shots where an offset dot is easier to get behind than the vertical one. Those are the reasons I can remember right now, I'm sure there are more.
You have to train pretty hard to take advantage of those benefits though, in addition to knowing when they are best employed. Without lot's of practice it can be super awkward.

 

[ut755ln]

Double red dots as in a vertical and offset dot? Did these people look like USPSA shooters?
There are some benefits to an offset dot for competition, you can have two different zero distances, there can be hard lean situations where canting the gun is far more intuitive than keeping it upright, and there can be forced weak shoulder shots where an offset dot is easier to get behind than the vertical one. Those are the reasons I can remember right now, I'm sure there are more.
You have to train pretty hard to take advantage of those benefits though, in addition to knowing when they are best employed. Without lot's of practice it can be super awkward.

I don't think so, one was on a SBR and I would guess the other was on 14.5", maybe 16".

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't think so, one was on a SBR and I would guess the other was on 14.5", maybe 16".

Huh. Well I don't know then.
Maybe the benefits have recently been realized by non competition shooters. Makes sense, much innovation in firearms starts there and gets shit on for a while before everyone else catches on.

 

[dms416]

Rather than harass strangers at the range, I thought I would ask the question here. I have seen a couple of people running double red dots. Do they do this just as a backup or is there some advantage to it that I am unaware of?

EOTechs being what they are, I know people running an RMR, Holosun, or ACRO P2 as an offset because:
- it's always good to have a secondary/backup sighting option
- EOTechs are what they are, and aren't a "leave it on" option, so the offset was the grab-and-go "always on" solution.
- Was with a EOTech/magnifier combo where a fast cant to the offset is faster than the a mere twist/fold down of the magnifier
- Irons are what they are, why slum it with back-up irons in this day and age if you don't have to (barring extreme circumstances, dots/holos help with better performance). Offset irons especially suck dick as the take up the 1:30 real estate, and also have to be flipped up (and the flip ups are great little snag hazards to break when left up) or they're like the Dueck and are just but offset snag hazards there to stay.

 

[NHR]

I've done stupid stuff like this just for the sake of running timed drills to quantify differences. Shot a whole steel match(rimfire rifle) with an LPVO, 12:00piggyback, and 45deg offset so I could test back-to-back-back

 

[Milf Dots]

If someone just has to be a traitorous douche by running a CCP optic- it would make sense to run two chinesium optics- in the likely event the first one shits the bed.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

If someone just has to be a traitorous douche by running a CCP optic- it would make sense to run two chinesium optics- in the likely event the first one shits the bed.

The OP didn't say anything about what the optics were. Stop inserting your virtue signaling into every thread.

 

[CK1.0]

Running an offset dot if you're already running any amount of magnification on your primary (usually top-rail-mounted optic) is starting to become more ubiquitous due to guys like Garand Thumb and his legion of impersonators, but as @TonyTheTiger said, it started in the competition world (like most of the better/faster techniques seem to).

An offset dot is actually super usable out to ~50 yards and much faster than any flip-to-side or throw lever will ever be... plus, you can even trigger some people if it happens to be a Holosun.

 

[ut755ln]

Running an offset dot if you're already running any amount of magnification on your primary (usually top-rail-mounted optic) is starting to become more ubiquitous due to guys like Garand Thumb and his legion of impersonators, but as @TonyTheTiger said, it started in the competition world (like most of the better/faster techniques seem to).

An offset dot is actually super usable out to ~50 yards and much faster than any flip-to-side or throw lever will ever be... plus, you can even trigger some people if it happens to be a Holosun.

One of my friends is using the 2 inch Unity mount with a T2. He has a front site on the rifle because I guess the unity mount has an integrated rear site in case the Aimpoint fails. The same guy also uses some kind of pic rail riser that he uses to mount an eotech. That does not have a rear site option and is tall enough to completely block it so he has offset irons. I guess a red dot for a back up there would make sense.

 

[CK1.0]

The thing with these is they’re usually not being used as a “backup” they’re more so an “alternate “.

Like: already dialed up to 5x on your primary optic and need to take a quick close-in shot? Just tilt the rifle over and voila…

The whole “back up sights thing” has more to do with larping and dorks on the internet than any real SOP or ethos coming from legit operators… I regularly shoot with a retired SEAL and Green Beret who were kicking in doors not too long ago and having talked about it, neither of them ran backups most of the time. I don’t have the resume they have, but I’ve carried a gun for a living for more than two decades and there are no backup sites on my work carbine either.

The extra sight is for extra performance, not a safety net.

 

[cas6969]

If not a match gun, then playing Man Barbie most likely. And/or ready for scenarios that will likely never happen.

I never used a dot with a LPV, but I did use offset sights. But since my scope "back then" (lol) was only 1-4, even then the instances where it was useful were limited, but I liked the option. (talking about Multi gun and similar type match shooting here) Not touching the scope is clearly faster than zooming up or down. I thought they worked great and mostly it made me think "I really should just get a regular scope". But since where I am located, I never shot anything past about 425 in a match, there was no need for more power. In truth, there were matches that were mostly hoser stages and close in stuff, all 50 yards and under, and I shot the whole match with just the offset sights (even though I was in an optics division).

 

[CK1.0]

FWIW, and to give this horse one more roundhouse... the way an offset red dot is usually used now (as opposed to ~5 years ago) is a product of evolution (even though they did probably start out as backups):

AFAIK, the really fast PCC guys were the first to really grab a hold of the concept and exploit its potential, mostly to gain speed on hard leans and stuff... the funny thing is: the fast guys are fast, so most of those guys have evolved to where they got so fast at "bumping shoulders" and using other techniques like that, that now, many of the top cats who used to run 2 sights don't need to anymore (because they're fast as shit without it too, and 1 less sight is 1 less thing to catch on a barricade or have an issue with, etc).

These guys were running two separate 1x sights (usually dots) which seemed strange to many AR guys (including me at the time), offset dots and mounts had already been on the scene for AR's and the 3-gun thing for a while, but IMHO people started really paying attention once they saw the PCC guys shred with them, and then started incorporating that kind of thing into their AR code of arms...

If you haven't ever tried one, they're fun. I used to set up a drill with a couple of little steel poppers out at 100 and 200 yards (primary/top scope on 4x or higher), and a couple IPSC's close-in right on top of me, and while weird at first, after running through a few full mags practicing the transitions, you start to become pretty quick about it and the tilt-over starts to feel pretty natural...

 

[Tchitcherine]

Hankie code for gamers.

 

[dogman]

I run them on my LPVO scoped guns for a number of reasons:

-The rear BUIS is going to be under the optic so it is useless other than SHTF backup if you pull the scope.
-Old eyes...can't see fixed sights and I don't wear glasses unless I am reading.
-Modern optics across the board are super reliable and the chances of a catastrophic failure of two optics is not a major concern.
-Battery life on my red dots are magnitudes longer than battery on my LPVOs, so I always have a "ready" optic for quick shooting.
-Offset optics are light, so weight is not a concern.
-It is very intutive to just roll the carbine and get quick site picture. I tried 12 o'clock mounts but they sit too high for my liking and the chances of my primary failing and me having to transition to my left shoulder is miniscule.

 

[dms416]

At the end of the day, no one gives a fuck about your gun problems. Only the performance/results matter...at the prize table, in the media coverage, or for the braggin' rights.

The fun/burden/combo there of is figuring out some of this shit on your own. By all means use the experience of others as a guide but apply it to your context and style.

I wish that showing a screen capture and saying "This is where (username) says that this is LARPer or gaYmer bullshit so that's why I can't do 'xyz' or else I'd have done better" ain't gonna hack it. It don't work that way.

 

[strikeeagle1]

For really close-quaters I prefer to rotate the shotgun to use the Surefire Barry Dueck offset sights (which he developed in competition shotgun use); the Aimpoint is best for 15 yards out in my experience with this set up.

 

[S197]

Rather than harass strangers at the range, I thought I would ask the question here. I have seen a couple of people running double red dots. Do they do this just as a backup or is there some advantage to it that I am unaware of?

I have a 16" AR with a 1-6 LPVO and an RMR and it certainly helps with faster transitions and not having to hit the throw lever. But I have seen a couple of Eotechs with something small like an RMR.

I believe 100% in back up sights weather iron or red dot. I recently seen a posting / article the guy had an eotech and an offset aimpoint on his rifle. My first thought is it’s a waste of space and only limits the use / capabilities of the rifle. If you are using one to shoot past 100yrds, some sort of magnified optic would be faster and more precise.

 

[hlee]

Let me start by saying that if there is truly a status of “operator as fuck,” I am that which is furthest from. That said, I get offset red dots that are put on comp guns for weird positions that make the ‘normal’ optic placement cumbersome- leaning out around obstacles, weak side, etc. But, for truly close range stuff, I’ve always been of the opinion of “put the crosshairs on the blurry object and pull the trigger. I don’t know, maybe I’m weird, but I can make center mass hits at 15 yards on 6x…