Barrel Break-In Help

[ReachOut&TouchSomebody]

Ok, firstly, let's assume that I subscribe to the notion of breaking in a barrel. I know this can be hotly contested. Save your fingertips the trouble of, "you don't need to break in your barrel!" I wasn't planning on going crazy, I was trying to replicate this process: https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/9/30/barrel-break-in-how-to-do-it-right. Burnishing the barrel with 5-20 rounds down a stripped barrel, one at a time. The trick is, stripping the barrel. I'm an overthinker looking for some similar-minded individual to tell me I'm crazy or provide some sage wisdom.

I'm doing this on a Savage 12FV custom rifle in 6.5CM that I built, so I know the barrel isn't anything crazy and could use a little breaking in to get some of it's better accuracy earlier. I have the J-Dewey Copper Eliminator rod, Bore-Tech Proof Positive Jags, and using the Bore-Tech Copper Eliminator solution. I'm trying to figure out how crazy I need to get about stripping the copper out of the barrel. For example, if I just follow the procedure on the bottle (3 wet patches, brush 10-15 strokes, 1 wet patch, wait 3 min, dry patch until clean) and I get patches that come out without green/blue on it, but if I put another wet patch down there, I will get more copper (blue/green) coming out on the dry patches. It seems never-ending and very frustrating. My question is: let's assume the barrel is striped and I fire around, if I put some solvent in the barrel and let it sit, then dry patch it until it's clean, is that good? Or should I be doing wet/dry until there is absolutely nothing coming out?

When I start to get clean patches from the first application of solvent, I don't know if that means the copper is off the high spots, and I'm good to send another round? Or if that just means the solvent is no longer breaking down copper, but it's still in the barrel and needs to be removed, or if the copper is sitting in the rifling grooves and the additional applications are just releasing that copper. If so, does that also need to be stripped?

Like I said, I'm an over-thinker, but looking for a little help with my frustration. I want to break in the barrel, but I spent way too much time at the range and just couldn't seem to stop getting copper out on the patches. I'm prioritizing rounds over solvent&patches though. I don't want to be putting more rounds down the barrel if the barrel isn't in the right condition to be burnished by the round. Patches and solvent are cheaper than 6.5CM rounds. Appreciate any insight, always good gouge on here.

 

[Supersubes]

@ReachOut&TouchSomebody be like

 

[sanpedroranch]

You tube Erik Cortina Barrel Break In

 

[Baron23]

Ok, firstly, let's assume that I subscribe to the notion of breaking in a barrel. I know this can be hotly contested. Save your fingertips the trouble of, "you don't need to break in your barrel!" I wasn't planning on going crazy, I was trying to replicate this process: https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/9/30/barrel-break-in-how-to-do-it-right. Burnishing the barrel with 5-20 rounds down a stripped barrel, one at a time. The trick is, stripping the barrel. I'm an overthinker looking for some similar-minded individual to tell me I'm crazy or provide some sage wisdom.

I'm doing this on a Savage 12FV custom rifle in 6.5CM that I built, so I know the barrel isn't anything crazy and could use a little breaking in to get some of it's better accuracy earlier. I have the J-Dewey Copper Eliminator rod, Bore-Tech Proof Positive Jags, and using the Bore-Tech Copper Eliminator solution. I'm trying to figure out how crazy I need to get about stripping the copper out of the barrel. For example, if I just follow the procedure on the bottle (3 wet patches, brush 10-15 strokes, 1 wet patch, wait 3 min, dry patch until clean) and I get patches that come out without green/blue on it, but if I put another wet patch down there, I will get more copper (blue/green) coming out on the dry patches. It seems never-ending and very frustrating. My question is: let's assume the barrel is striped and I fire around, if I put some solvent in the barrel and let it sit, then dry patch it until it's clean, is that good? Or should I be doing wet/dry until there is absolutely nothing coming out?

When I start to get clean patches from the first application of solvent, I don't know if that means the copper is off the high spots, and I'm good to send another round? Or if that just means the solvent is no longer breaking down copper, but it's still in the barrel and needs to be removed, or if the copper is sitting in the rifling grooves and the additional applications are just releasing that copper. If so, does that also need to be stripped?

Like I said, I'm an over-thinker, but looking for a little help with my frustration. I want to break in the barrel, but I spent way too much time at the range and just couldn't seem to stop getting copper out on the patches. I'm prioritizing rounds over solvent&patches though. I don't want to be putting more rounds down the barrel if the barrel isn't in the right condition to be burnished by the round. Patches and solvent are cheaper than 6.5CM rounds. Appreciate any insight, always good gouge on here.

I believe that with non- copper BoreTrch jag if you are still getting blue then you have not gotten all of the copper out.

I will not debate whether break in is good or bad, but given you want to do a break in AND want to get all of the copper fouling out you need to continue until the blue stops. That’s the tell for copper.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Put your over thinking to use.

Take two brand new barrels and do this to one and not the other. Report back which shoots better.

 

[XLR308]

You will more than likely be chasing your tail with the Savage barrel expecting it to just stop fouling like a hand lapped barrel.
I say shoot it, ifnits grouping good keep shooting it.

 

[swampbuck]

You are being redirected...

This is a very interesting article. One point that stands out to me is this

"Some people try to get their barrels too clean–you truly want the bullet to ride on a little carbon or copper. Both the carbon and copper provide a little bit of a lubricant in the barrel. One doesn’t need a squeaky-clean barrel. You need to condition the stainless steel–to leave a little film in there."

Contributed by
Michelle Sutton of Hart Barrels

I believe the above statement to be true and if you clean the barrel with boretech until you see no blue you will waste solvent, patches energy and half your shots will be spent refouling the barrel to get back to peak accuracy. I think the above cleaning regimen suggested by Cheeseburger should be fine and the patches look fine.

 

[Precision Underground]

The correct answer is, it depends. It depends on the condition of the barrel inside. I’ve had barrels that I didn’t break in at all and I’ve had barrels that I had to strip multiple times before they didn’t drag copper. We have a borescope now which makes it much easier but the gauge I used to use is if Copper is visible at the muzzle. I always pictured there is more copper toward the chamber so I would (nylon)brush there more than toward the muzzle. And then when I can’t see anymore copper at the muzzle I call it good and go again. Once you get to a point you’ll notice that it takes 3-4 shots rather than just 1 to see copper at the bore. It usually takes me 5-8 cycles of the typical shoot/clean, shoot, shoot, clean, etc... Although we’ve got a large frame barrel that was dragging copper at the gas port and it took soaking patches inside the barrel overnight to get it clean and smooth it out.

Guys will tell you you are wasting your time but I can tell you 100% that’s not always the case because I’ve had a couple of barrels that definitely needed it due to accuracy falling off quickly. Once the break in is done the copper stops dragging. Sure this would have eventually happened with regular cleaning but I’d rather shoot and clean for a couple of hours than have to clean every 100 rounds for the next 500-700.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Put your over thinking to use.

Take two brand new barrels and do this to one and not the other. Report back which shoots better.

Pepperidge Farm remembers when Lowlight did this with two rifles and couldn’t find a different between the two in how they shot after thousands of rounds.

 

[NiteQwill]

I'll say it... You're wasting time, money, range time, ammo, and unnecessary cleaning equipment. Just shoot it.

 

[THEIS]

 

[BPGuru]

What type brush are you using? I find I get blue patches out when using bronze bore brushes as well. Try and see if same thing occurs with a stiff nylon brush. I am a firm believer in bronze brushes but this maybe be your culprit.

Additionally, I am a fan of Savage rifles but look thru one with a borescope and you will be amazed that it shoots so well.

There are as many believes as non believers in barrel break in. I do the process on custom barrels but it seems like a waste of good components with your average factory barrel. Best of luck to you but if it is shooting to your expectations I would recommend a regular cleaning routine and call it good.

 

[Lange Carabine]

Bullet jacket/Guilding metal= copper/Zinc alloy
Bronze = 88% copper 12% tin or there abouts, so
any solvent that dissolves jacket fouling is also going dissolve your bronze brushes.

 

[Frank Green]

Some barrels never break in per say. If they are rougher than a plowed corn field....it is what it is.

On a good barrel the only thing your breaking in per say is the throat of the chamber. This is because the reamer cuts opposite direction of bullet travel. The nicer the finish the reamer leaves the faster the throat will polish and break in.

I don't do a set break in per say anymore. Most of the time.... I just don't have the time to do a religious break in procedure.

Pay attention to the gun. It will tell you what is going on.....just learn how to read it.

I'll shoot two rounds thru the gun and clean it. If it cleans quick and easily and I get little to no fouling out of it....I sit down and shoot the rifle. Typically about 25-30 rounds. I clean it and I consider it done.

If a barrel is going to change velocity wise/settle down it will typically do it in a 100 rounds or less.

If the barrel is fouling very heavily....ask yourself this. Does the rifle/barrel hold accuracy after 15-20 rounds? If it does but is just a bitch to clean you don't have a fouling/accuracy issue. Shoot the gun!

Don't forget different lots of bullets and or from different makers can cause fouling issues as well and have nothing to do with the barrel per say.

If the barrel fouls heavily and accuracy suffers after say 15-20 rounds.....then you have issues going on in my opinion and you will have to investigate further and or take some time to do a set break in process of shoot individual rounds and clean it....then say 5 groups of 3 rounds and clean after each group and say 5 groups of 5 rounds and clean it etc....

I cannot tell you the last time I did a religious break in procedure! Probably 15 years ago or more.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Frank Green]

View attachment 7450342Here’s what my patches looked like.

Why dry patch it after a few wet patches? Your taking the cleaner out. Keep running a wet patch down it till it comes out clean. Then dry patch it and go to your next step...what ever that might be.

If your using a bronze brush with the bore cleaner the copper color showing up could be from the bronze brush. If so it's giving you a false reading.

Look down the muzzle end with a flash light. Do you see heavy copper streaks in the bore?

 

[pmclaine]

We need that man on the board.

 

[47guy]

i personally do a short break in....i shoot 1 and clean for 3 rounds...5 if copper is still heavy but have only had to go more than 3 in a custom barrel once that i can remember...i then shoot 10 and clean and im done...i then shoot 100 rounds to get the barrel up to speed then clean and go into load development after which i clean every 150 to 200 rounds.

i have no proof that this does anything other than make me feel all warm and fuzzy but i do it anyway because i dont want a bunch of build up in the throat of new barrel.

 

[daylate]

Classic and the first thing I thought of when I read title....

 

[mustang-cars]

I have done this with quite a few new barrels. Run a dry patch to make sure there's no oil or debris left in the bore from the chambering process. Shoot 100 rounds in practice on steel or whatever it is you want to do for 100 rounds. Go home. Clean thoroughly with Bore Tech cleaners. Start load development. Clean thereafter every 300 rounds or so. Enjoy the barrel until its time to put a new one on. Actually enjoy shooting instead of worrying about every little thing that could go wrong.

 

[Baron23]

hahaha...yeah, I've seen that vid of that clown.

From the man on barrel break in and more



Lowlight with Bartlein on barrel breakin.

P.S. - oops, I see we have the man himself here from Bartlein...listen to him...def not me! haha



Seems like each should learn as much as they can from various sources and then make up their own mind, yeah?

 

[spife7980]

We need that man on the board.

You mean again?

 

[ShtrRdy]

Look down the muzzle end with a flash light. Do you see heavy copper streaks in the bore?

I like to use this information from the first few shots. It seems a newly chambered barrel causes the copper to vaporize and then get deposited (mostly) at the muzzle end.

 

[JeffLebowski]

You mean again?

 

[Frank Green]

I like to use this information from the first few shots. It seems a newly chambered barrel causes the copper to vaporize and then get deposited (mostly) at the muzzle end.

What does the chambers throat look like? If you can look at it after chambering. If the throat is rougher per say it's going to shave extra copper off the bullets jacket. In milliseconds this shaved/copper dust gets transformed into a liquid from the heat and pressure....it is in suspension and follows the bullet down the barrel. When this copper liquid hits the cooling temp where it turns back to a solid is when it sticks to the bore. Usually it shows up more at the muzzle end of the barrel but is really starting way back at the throat.

Also as the barrel wears the throat will get rougher. So fouling typically goes up as the round count gets up there.

So when the barrel is new fouling can be a little heavier than normal and again it can be due to the throat being rougher. Then as the throat breaks in the fouling typically will settle down and again as the barrel wears and the throat gets rougher....fouling will go up.

 

[Cr1775]

What does the chambers throat look like? If you can look at it after chambering. If the throat is rougher per say it's going to shave extra copper off the bullets jacket. In milliseconds this shaved/copper dust gets transformed into a liquid from the heat and pressure....it is in suspension and follows the bullet down the barrel. When this copper liquid hits the cooling temp where it turns back to a solid is when it sticks to the bore. Usually it shows up more at the muzzle end of the barrel but is really starting way back at the throat.

Also as the barrel wears the throat will get rougher. So fouling typically goes up as the round count gets up there.

So when the barrel is new fouling can be a little heavier than normal and again it can be due to the throat being rougher. Then as the throat breaks in the fouling typically will settle down and again as the barrel wears and the throat gets rougher....fouling will go up.

Todays shooter dont wear the barrel out shooting no they destroy them by cleaning rod first

 

[jsel10]

Dont be surprised if you spend a ton of time digging copper out of a factory barrel. I'd love to know how many barrels are chambered with the same reamer before changing.

 

[Cr1775]

Dont be surprised if you spend a ton of time digging copper out of a factory barrel. I'd love to know how many barrels are chambered with the same reamer before changing.

Remington 700 factory barrel needs barnes cr 10 give it time hardly any work granted a good hammer forged barrel or a custom barrel all you need is hoppes and a couple patches

 

[308pirate]

Ok, firstly, let's assume that I subscribe to the notion of breaking in a barrel. I know this can be hotly contested. Save your fingertips the trouble of, "you don't need to break in your barrel!" I wasn't planning on going crazy, I was trying to replicate this process: https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/9/30/barrel-break-in-how-to-do-it-right. Burnishing the barrel with 5-20 rounds down a stripped barrel, one at a time. The trick is, stripping the barrel. I'm an overthinker looking for some similar-minded individual to tell me I'm crazy or provide some sage wisdom.

I'm doing this on a Savage 12FV custom rifle in 6.5CM that I built, so I know the barrel isn't anything crazy and could use a little breaking in to get some of it's better accuracy earlier. I have the J-Dewey Copper Eliminator rod, Bore-Tech Proof Positive Jags, and using the Bore-Tech Copper Eliminator solution. I'm trying to figure out how crazy I need to get about stripping the copper out of the barrel. For example, if I just follow the procedure on the bottle (3 wet patches, brush 10-15 strokes, 1 wet patch, wait 3 min, dry patch until clean) and I get patches that come out without green/blue on it, but if I put another wet patch down there, I will get more copper (blue/green) coming out on the dry patches. It seems never-ending and very frustrating. My question is: let's assume the barrel is striped and I fire around, if I put some solvent in the barrel and let it sit, then dry patch it until it's clean, is that good? Or should I be doing wet/dry until there is absolutely nothing coming out?

When I start to get clean patches from the first application of solvent, I don't know if that means the copper is off the high spots, and I'm good to send another round? Or if that just means the solvent is no longer breaking down copper, but it's still in the barrel and needs to be removed, or if the copper is sitting in the rifling grooves and the additional applications are just releasing that copper. If so, does that also need to be stripped?

Like I said, I'm an over-thinker, but looking for a little help with my frustration. I want to break in the barrel, but I spent way too much time at the range and just couldn't seem to stop getting copper out on the patches. I'm prioritizing rounds over solvent&patches though. I don't want to be putting more rounds down the barrel if the barrel isn't in the right condition to be burnished by the round. Patches and solvent are cheaper than 6.5CM rounds. Appreciate any insight, always good gouge on here.

You're an idiot

Quit wasting your fucking time and ammo

 

[ReachOut&TouchSomebody]

This is what Josh at Patriot Valley arms suggests. He’s an aeronautical engineer and wicked smart. I followed this process.
(you know engineers over think and analyze everything)

1. Be sure that the bore is free from any/all obstructions.
2. Load 1 round and fire it into the impact mound.
3. Repeat steps 1-2 for five (5) rounds.
4. Using BoreTech Eliminator™ bore solvent clean the bore of the rifle with wet patches until it comes out clean. Lay out the patches in order of use in order to get a visual line-up of the dirty patches coming out of the bore.
5. Repeat Steps 1-4 two (2) times so that a total of 15 rounds have been fired and the bore has been cleaned three (3) times.
   1. The total number of patches used for the 1st (5) rounds fired will be larger than for the last 5 rounds fired (rounds 11-15). If this is not the case repeat steps 1-4 until that is the case.
   2. Typically the barrel cleans up in about 6-10 patches on the first 5 rounds and about 3 patches on the 11-15th rounds fired.
   3. Once Steps 1-5 have been accomplished the barrel is “broken-in” as far as fouling is concerned and cleaning is only necessary as the group sizes of the rifle dictate that cleaning needs to be performed again.
      1. Typically this is every 150-500 rounds depending on chambering however that is not a hard and fast rule. Each barrel is a little different and owners will need to get a feel for how their barrel wants to shoot.

I could get down with this procedure. Do you think using the BoreTech Copper Solvent vs BoreTech Eliminator Bore Solvent is a factor? Theoretically, this procedure sounds like it could be done with any solvent, anything special about the Eliminator stuff that would change that?

 

[ReachOut&TouchSomebody]

@ReachOut&TouchSomebody be like
View attachment 7450341

Own that shit. I gotta assume I'm in good company 'round here.

 

[ReachOut&TouchSomebody]

You will more than likely be chasing your tail with the Savage barrel expecting it to just stop fouling like a hand lapped barrel.
I say shoot it, ifnits grouping good keep shooting it.

I thought about this. This is the first of two builds. I'm waiting on a custom barrel from Preferred Barrel Blanks for the second rifle. Thought I would try my hand at breaking in the Savage because I haven't done it on any rifles before, but wondered if the craftsmanship wasn't refined enough to see any benefit, I would need to use the abrasive rounds detailed in the article I posted. As an engineer, a very cool concept, but I think it's a bridge too far

 

[ReachOut&TouchSomebody]

You're an idiot

Quit wasting your fucking time and ammo

Thanks, bro...

 

[LeftyJason]

I thought about this.... Blah blah.... As an engineer,

That explains it.

Quit thinking so much and listen to what everyone is saying. They are speaking from experience not theoretical. Not old passed on crap from someone that was probably OCD and an over thinker.

 

[loveha]

I have done break in procedures, and I have not. I can't tell shit from either if it ever helped. My latest, a 300WSM, with 93 rounds down the barrel with not a single clean is still doing half MOA. I will no longer ever bother doing a break in procedure. Shoot one, clean, shoot one, clean, shoot three, blah blah blah.... I firmly believe it's pointless nonsense.

Abrasive bullets? Sounds like some 3rd world, corner store, snake oil. Hot fireballs of burning powder blasting down the barrel pushing a bullet over 2700FPS isn't enough? One shot and most anything is going to be taken care of. If you really want to do something with meaning, just lap it with bore past if you are worried about a rough barrel. I would trust that to actually do something. Not some unicorn bullets that shoot rainbows.

 

[hafejd30]

You say it’s a “Savage 12 FV Custom Build”

Who’s the barrel maker of this “custom build”??

If your worried about breaking it in follow the barrel makers recommendation. Use what they tell you to use, forget the “magic bullets” that does the work for you. If it doesn’t shoot well after the last thing you want to tell the barrel maker is your elaborate home remedy barrel break in process destroyed the barrel

If this “custom build” is taking a savage barreled action and putting a stock and scope on it then just shoot it and forget the break in

 

[Frank Green]

Abrasive bullets? Sounds like some 3rd world, corner store, snake oil. Hot fireballs of burning powder blasting down the barrel pushing a bullet over 2700FPS isn't enough? One shot and most anything is going to be taken care of. If you really want to do something with meaning, just lap it with bore past if you are worried about a rough barrel. I would trust that to actually do something. Not some unicorn bullets that shoot rainbows.

Abrasive bullets....I tell guys you use them....don't call me with a problem. Have no control over what the guy is doing with them, how hard they are running them, how many etc...I've seen guys prematurely wear the throat .030" and fired only 6 of them thru the barrel.

If you have a crappy factory type barrel and or a barrel with a ton of rounds on it....give it a try. Probably nothing to lose but I wouldn't run them down a high end barrel.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[ReachOut&TouchSomebody]

Alright, everyone. De-ruffle your feathers! Message received.

There's plenty of information and products out there regarding barrel break-in, I need to get my post count up anyways, so I thought I would refine a sensible approach to the process. Probably going to call it a day on the Savage and may or may not do something light on the truly custom build. I appreciate all the thoughtful responses, especially from Frank @ Bartlein. Everybody else can go back to yelling at their microwave ✌

 

[Hondo1]

I was waiting for someone to post that video!
Solid gold. Dude has been on the Hide under a few names in the past and left a wake of hurt feelings from those who take them selves to seriously.

 

[7P's]

I guess it depends on why you’re breaking in your barrel. I only know of one (1) reason, that is to reduce copper fouling. If you have a factory (off the shelf) barrel, you might see some reduction but I would doubt it in 90% of the factory barrels out there. You might try cryogenic treatments, that sometimes helps factory barrels reduce copper fouling - at least it did for 2 AR barrels for me.

The main help comes with hand lapped custom/match barrels that have been heat treated. Fire one shot, clean with a quality copper solvent until no blue, repeat for up to 25 rounds fired. Normal break-in is usually between 8 and 14 rounds fired.

After a successful break-in, you can expect to clean the barrel with 3 or 4 copper solvent patches - it’s a time saver and convienance to the competitive rifle shooter - I break my barrels in but then I also use the Redding dual ring 45ACP die for FL resizing while most think that’s a gimmick and waste of money and time??

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Field clean, then pump rounds through it.
It's a rifle not a fucken Faberge egg.
Practical application above all else.
Those targets and ferals, aren't going to kill themselves.

 

[Rerun7]

Nonsense.... Don’t listen to these savages OP. Barrel break-in is a very worthwhile and rewarding procedure with many many documented benefits...

You get out there and waste ammo and hours of labor driving yourself crazy for those intangible results. You’ll be better off for it.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Nonsense.... Don’t listen to these savages OP. Barrel break-in is a very worthwhile and rewarding procedure with many many documented benefits...

You get out there and waste ammo and hours of labor driving yourself crazy for those intangible results. You’ll be better off for it.

you evil bastard.....

 

[isofahunter]

We need that man on the board.

You Sir have not experienced Larry's Hints if you say that. He is intense to say the least.

 

[pmclaine]

You Sir have not experienced Larry's Hints if you say that. He is intense to say the least.

Hurts the feelings of those that can't take "Yes" for an answer.

I've felt a little of his advice.

He humors me immensely.

 

[b6graham]

mounted a 6.5 creed earlier this year. 1 patch down the barrel prior. 800 rounds down it since. last group was .13"

break in and cleaning is overrated