Hi everyone my name is Tom. I recently bought a browning x-bolt max Target varmint. I was wondering what everyone thinks about barrel break in and what steps I should take. Thanks
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Barrel break in yes or no
- Thread starter Tom22250
- Start date
Clean it. Shoot 20. Clean again. Shoot till groups open up (200-800 depending on caliber and barrel quality)
Shoot 10-20 rounds, clean...If there's a lot of copper fouling i shoot 10-20 and clean again and repeat as needed...then I clean every 200-300 rounds of so. In my experience bartlein, krieger, brux and obermeyer barrels have shown little to no copper fouling from the start
I thought this issue was decided already. But for those who may have missed it,
i break them in since that is what I was told by long range guys years ago and what some barrel companies recommend. as long you don’t damage it cleaning then I don’t see what it hurts. I do wonder if necessary.
My experence with browning rifles you have to keep them clean and often [ lots of copper build up ] If you do they shoot real good for factory rifles. When you step up to custom hand lap barrels that's a different story vary little copper and you run long strings without cleaning
Same thing with factory Remingtons shoot them, clean them, shoot them clean them, ah fuck it put a bartlein on lol.
I think it's hard to believe that nothing happens during a break-in session. At least two things are happening; one good, and one bad.
First the good. Throat erosion will reduce some machining confluences where the rifling and throat leade intersect. This is a positive, but it's also minimal.
The not so good. Throat erosion is taking place in the first place. Bore life is measured in increments of throat erosion, and whenever that's happening, remaining round count is counting down.
Between the two, I'll settle for skipping the process.
Greg
First the good. Throat erosion will reduce some machining confluences where the rifling and throat leade intersect. This is a positive, but it's also minimal.
The not so good. Throat erosion is taking place in the first place. Bore life is measured in increments of throat erosion, and whenever that's happening, remaining round count is counting down.
Between the two, I'll settle for skipping the process.
Greg
This. Unless it’s copper fouling bad then I’ll go to 100 until another cleaning. If it’s coppering a lot I’ll clean every 20 until fouling goes away.
I don't think it makes sense in theory or practice to "break-in" a barrel as a prophylactic against problems that may not even exist and aren't likely to be corrected by a "break-in" if they do.
Consider this gross over simplification of what sort of barrel you might have:
1. Dimensionally accurate, beautifully machined - should shoot well, foul little
2. Dimensionally accurate, "OK" machine work - should shoot well, might give some trouble with fouling, might get better as you shoot
3. Dimensionally inaccurate, "who cares" machine work - might be able to foul it enough to shoot decently if it's "close," but generally slag
What will "break in" accomplish? For that first group of barrels, nothing. Same for the third. For the second group, the normal answer given is to remove all traces of fouling between shots to ensure the bullet is traveling down a clean bore so that it can essentially polish out rough spots in the rifling. If that's what you're after, why not just lap it? However, should that be your first course of action?
I'd argue no - see how it shoots. Where's the harm? If you want to follow a near religious, zen approved break-in procedure, you can do so at round 1 or round 100. Might as well see if the darn thing merits the attention before you invest hours of your life and the life of your bore that you cannot get back.
Consider this gross over simplification of what sort of barrel you might have:
1. Dimensionally accurate, beautifully machined - should shoot well, foul little
2. Dimensionally accurate, "OK" machine work - should shoot well, might give some trouble with fouling, might get better as you shoot
3. Dimensionally inaccurate, "who cares" machine work - might be able to foul it enough to shoot decently if it's "close," but generally slag
What will "break in" accomplish? For that first group of barrels, nothing. Same for the third. For the second group, the normal answer given is to remove all traces of fouling between shots to ensure the bullet is traveling down a clean bore so that it can essentially polish out rough spots in the rifling. If that's what you're after, why not just lap it? However, should that be your first course of action?
I'd argue no - see how it shoots. Where's the harm? If you want to follow a near religious, zen approved break-in procedure, you can do so at round 1 or round 100. Might as well see if the darn thing merits the attention before you invest hours of your life and the life of your bore that you cannot get back.
Usually i just clean it when i first get it, then shoot it about 10-20 times, then when I get home I clean it again and call it good. Then after that I put another 10-20 rounds through it while getting it zeroed and chronoed.
But sometimes I do the Hawk Hill barrel break in procedure because it only takes 12 rounds and that's about all I shoot on the first trip to the range with a new precision rifle anyways. (Google "hawk hill barrel break in procedure" and youll see it.)
I dont know if it helps, but i dont really care. If it helps, cool. If it doesn't, I didnt lose out on anything.
I also tend to use a boresnake for these initial cleanings since im too lazy to bring out the rod and bore guide and patches out to the field. Is that bad? I figured since the barrel isnt fouled or anything when new, a couple passes with a snake can clean out any random machining debris.
Again, I could be doing things all wrong but I havent noticed any ill effects from either method.
But sometimes I do the Hawk Hill barrel break in procedure because it only takes 12 rounds and that's about all I shoot on the first trip to the range with a new precision rifle anyways. (Google "hawk hill barrel break in procedure" and youll see it.)
I dont know if it helps, but i dont really care. If it helps, cool. If it doesn't, I didnt lose out on anything.
I also tend to use a boresnake for these initial cleanings since im too lazy to bring out the rod and bore guide and patches out to the field. Is that bad? I figured since the barrel isnt fouled or anything when new, a couple passes with a snake can clean out any random machining debris.
Again, I could be doing things all wrong but I havent noticed any ill effects from either method.
I'm not just doing a break in when I'm doing a break in. I'm also zeroing the rifle.
I do two groups of two shots and two of three shots. Cleaning between each set obviously. I also initially start at 50 yards when sighting in so I'm on my three shot groups when I'm at 100 yards most likely.
Then I finish with two five shot groups to finish the box.
Is break in needed, I'm going to say absolutely not. When you buy from a good company like Bartlein, Krieger, Proof, Shilen, etc.
Do some of them recommend it, yes, but that is for those that feel like it does some vudoo magic IMO. I say, what does it hurt, and do it anyways. Although, I didn't bother with a Criterion barrel, and it shoots just fine.
I do two groups of two shots and two of three shots. Cleaning between each set obviously. I also initially start at 50 yards when sighting in so I'm on my three shot groups when I'm at 100 yards most likely.
Then I finish with two five shot groups to finish the box.
Is break in needed, I'm going to say absolutely not. When you buy from a good company like Bartlein, Krieger, Proof, Shilen, etc.
Do some of them recommend it, yes, but that is for those that feel like it does some vudoo magic IMO. I say, what does it hurt, and do it anyways. Although, I didn't bother with a Criterion barrel, and it shoots just fine.
My break in- shoot 1 clean then 3 clean then 5 clean til 20 shots. Dont like even doing that but my smith recommends it lol but while im doing that im getting rifle on paper and testing loads and velocities to see what is gonna show the most promise. Then i clean it the next time it opens up 200 to 400 rds. My factory bergara i gotta clean like every 50 rds or less
I have never done any break in routine. I'll generally fire about 20 rounds for the first outing, then clean. After that, I don't clean very often unless I've discovered some other reason why I need to.
I think a break in is a waste of time. What exactly is a break in going to do? Some people say it gets rid of tooling marks in the bore. How does that happen? How is a copper jacketed lead Bullet going to remove tooling marks on a steel barrel with only 20-30 rounds? That’s like saying you can dent ar500 with a rubber mallet.
I always used the just shoot it method and it worked fine. Now in the last 2 years I have had two barrels that needed 1 shot and clean break in after shooting great and then going to hell. Just listen to the barrel. If it shoots great and then falls off it’s probably dragging copper. People will say this is only for factory barrels but chambering even a premium barrel can leave tooling marks that need to be smoothed out.
I clean the barrel out once I get it, Torque is to the action, hit the range put like 50rds through it, light cleaning and then call it good till the group opens up.
I’m in the camp of cleaning a new barrel upon pick up, shooting it as much as I want that first range day, cleaning it when I get home, then just shooting it until it opens up/issues arise.
I start each range day with a CB record and zero confirmation. CB will be 1-shot on a head-sized target at distance (300-600, depending on what’s available) then a 3rd zero confirmation at 100. If that group differs from the standard, then I’ll fire a group of 5. If that group shows signs of an abnormal spread and I can’t dismiss it as shooter induced, I’ll note it, finish out the day, and go do either a P or P/C (rd count depending) cleaning when I get home.
Shoot it, log it, and go on living, laughing, and loving.
I start each range day with a CB record and zero confirmation. CB will be 1-shot on a head-sized target at distance (300-600, depending on what’s available) then a 3rd zero confirmation at 100. If that group differs from the standard, then I’ll fire a group of 5. If that group shows signs of an abnormal spread and I can’t dismiss it as shooter induced, I’ll note it, finish out the day, and go do either a P or P/C (rd count depending) cleaning when I get home.
Shoot it, log it, and go on living, laughing, and loving.
I was going to read what everyone had to say... but I’ll just wait until tomorrow and start up a fresh barrel break in thread. This information goes stale quick.
While you’re at it...Can you also start a “I’m looking for advice for a sub $1,000 optic for use at 1,000yds that will help me get sub MOA results on my kitchen-built AR while shooting wolf FMJ ammo” thread?
Just bought a Barrett MRAD with barrels in 300-WM and 338-L ... broke in the 300-WM with 1-clean (3x), then 2-clean-3-clean-5-clean and it was fine, but a pain in the butt to do at a range bench. On all cleanings, no fouling and clean swabs within a few patches. At $5,000 for the rifle and $1,300 for each additional barrel, I should expect a bore that's smoother than a baby's behind. I've noticed this is the case on all my high-quality rifles where I've used this process (MPA 300-WM, LWRCI REPR MKII 6.5, Tikka T3x 6.5, etc.). The cleanings at the range all just seemed to be "non-events".
Swapped barrels last night to the 338 Lapua. Today, I'm going to shoot 30-40 rounds through that barrel, and bring it home to clean. I'm convinced you're correct ... high quality barrels don't really benefit from that rigorous "Shoot - Clean - Rinse - Repeat" break-in process.
Thanks for the advice. It maps to my experiences.
I’ve taken the path many have already stated with one exception. I clean a new barrel thoroughly including a copper cleaner (Patch Out). I then go to the range and zero my scope and shoot a 3 or 5-shot group, usually 10 rounds +/- total. I then clean the barrel again including a copper cleaner. Next trip to the range I do an OCW of 20-30 rounds and then completely clean the barrel again including the copper cleaner. From there on, I only clean powder and carbon foulingI until accuracy degrades at which time I’ll strip copper again.
Just shoot it. I’ve tried the old wives tales of one shot one patch blah blah blah.
1 shot, clean x 5
3 shot, clean x 3
5 shot, clean x 2
See what the barrel cleaning patches look like.
Been doing it this was since ‘92. People say, “it’s a waste of ammo.” It’s only a “waste” if you don’t learn anything from it
3 shot, clean x 3
5 shot, clean x 2
See what the barrel cleaning patches look like.
Been doing it this was since ‘92. People say, “it’s a waste of ammo.” It’s only a “waste” if you don’t learn anything from it
Nobody is saying nothing happens. They’re just saying that what happens is going to happen whether you have fun your first day out, or waste the day with shoot-n-clean.
One of these days give it a try. You’ll find that you end up at the exact same place you do now. Break-ins are a giant waste of time.
barrel break in threads are like watching someone get hit in the balls with a football. Funny every single time, as long as it isn't you.
I used to believe in breaking in barrels until I learned it wasn’t truly needed. I ran some patches through my 6.5 When it was new, after the first 100 rounds and then again with another 350ish down the pipe. Cleaned right up in 8 passes with patches. It’s your rifle and your call tho.
Refer to Bartlein barrel break in proceedure!
Shoot and do what the patches indicate.
Shoot and do what the patches indicate.
@lowlight pecker-slapped me on barrel break-in voodoo BS awhile back. Changed my life for the better.
It depends!
Depends on the quality of the barrel for one. I’ve seen some barrels never break in per say. The bores are rougher than a plowed field.
Also depends on the quality of the gunsmithing.
The only thing you break in per say on a good barrel is the throat of the chamber. The nicer the finish you get from the chambering reamer the faster the throat will polish and break in per say and can result in less fouling.
For the most part I don’t do any break in. I’ll shoot maybe two rounds thru it and clean it to see how it cleans. If it’s cleaning quick and easy and I’m getting little to no fouling out of it...I sit down and shoot it.
In the middle of testing a 6.5cm and a 308win rifle. Both got about 50 rounds thru them from the get go and then got cleaned. No issues.
A barrel will change over the course of it’s life. You have to pay attention to it and learn how to read it. As the Marine Corp rifle creed goes....” This is my rifle! There are many like it but this one is mine!”
It’ll tell you what is going on. Again just pay attention to it.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Depends on the quality of the barrel for one. I’ve seen some barrels never break in per say. The bores are rougher than a plowed field.
Also depends on the quality of the gunsmithing.
The only thing you break in per say on a good barrel is the throat of the chamber. The nicer the finish you get from the chambering reamer the faster the throat will polish and break in per say and can result in less fouling.
For the most part I don’t do any break in. I’ll shoot maybe two rounds thru it and clean it to see how it cleans. If it’s cleaning quick and easy and I’m getting little to no fouling out of it...I sit down and shoot it.
In the middle of testing a 6.5cm and a 308win rifle. Both got about 50 rounds thru them from the get go and then got cleaned. No issues.
A barrel will change over the course of it’s life. You have to pay attention to it and learn how to read it. As the Marine Corp rifle creed goes....” This is my rifle! There are many like it but this one is mine!”
It’ll tell you what is going on. Again just pay attention to it.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
^ Probably the best answer come to think of it. Each barrel is different. Some are fast, some are slow, some are more accurate than others, some foul easy, some never seem to foul at all. I guess it would make sense then, than some may benefit from a little break in, while others dont. Regardless, it is safe to say that it isnt NEEDED, but niether is it always a waste of time!
I just load up 200 of a mild load. Then hook up a chrono and practice spotting impacts/making corrections at distance while it speeds up and the bayonet changes poi.
Once I’m around 100 rnds, I’ll keep and eye on chrono. Once it levels out. I know the barrel has settled in/sped up and ready for load development.
After having to stop shooting a match due to a very bad carbon ring even though my rifle was still shooting well, I have decided to change my cleaning routine to:
Clean spotless after every match. This will mean no more than the 2-250rnds in a 2 day match without cleaning and 100rnds on a club match. I’ll then double check with borescope that it’s completely clean. 5-10 rounds to foul barrel the next time I check zero/dope.
Once I’m around 100 rnds, I’ll keep and eye on chrono. Once it levels out. I know the barrel has settled in/sped up and ready for load development.
After having to stop shooting a match due to a very bad carbon ring even though my rifle was still shooting well, I have decided to change my cleaning routine to:
Clean spotless after every match. This will mean no more than the 2-250rnds in a 2 day match without cleaning and 100rnds on a club match. I’ll then double check with borescope that it’s completely clean. 5-10 rounds to foul barrel the next time I check zero/dope.
How many barrels have you not done that to and seen a different result? If not a lot, your technique means little.
It would be like saying, every time I’m about to pull out of the driveway for the last 20 years, I tap my roof 3 times and I haven’t had and accident. Did you not have an accident because of them taps, or did you not have an accident and coincidentally performed the taps?
It could absolutely be a waste of ammo and you wouldn’t know it unless you have data ri back it up.
I don’t subscribe to this anymore. For a couple reasons:
Have had problems not accuracy related show up from not cleaning (heavy bolt, but groups still good for example)
And, if I don’t wait for groups to open up to clean, guess what......they never open up. Would be like waiting for engine wear to begin before changing oil. Change it before it’s a problem and it never gets to the problem point.
oh i'm with you there. carbon rings or other things causing issues
A count? No idea. I was taught this way by the 'smith I worked under back in '92. Since then, I've spun a "a couple" barrels.
You don't have to do it., if you don't believe in it. I'm not offended. Really. You believe in your way, I believe in mine. It's your gun. You do you, I'll do me. I was answering the direct question of the OP of my thoughts and my steps. Plain and simple. IMO, a "waste of ammo" is when you blast away and don't learn anything from it.
