Barrel break in yes or no

[redneckbmxer24]

A count? No idea. I was taught this way by the 'smith I worked under back in '92. Since then, I've spun a "a couple" barrels.

You don't have to do it., if you don't believe in it. I'm not offended. Really. You believe in your way, I believe in mine. It's your gun. You do you, I'll do me. I was answering the direct question of the OP of my thoughts and my steps. Plain and simple. IMO, a "waste of ammo" is when you blast away and don't learn anything from it.

So exactly what have you learned from almost 30 years of fucking around with cleaning a bunch at the range? Apparently not that barrels are broken in by bullets passing down them, not jags and brushes with solvent and that it also takes a lot more than a typical 20-30rd break in procedure to accomplish that.

A high quality hand lapped barrel usually takes 150-250 rounds to be broken in. A shitty rough factory barrel like a Remington, Savage, etc I’ve had take as much as 500 rounds before they settled in. Cleaning does not accelerate the process. I’ve broken in a crap load of barrels and used to do the lengthy procedures and one day said fuck this shit and just started shooting them and what I learned is that I wasted a lot of time and effort for nothing.

The only thing I’ve seen that helps break in is the Tubbs stuff. I’ve ran the final finish on several stubborn factory barrels and it worked. I also played around with the throat maintenance bullets on a few Bartlein 6mm barrels and they seemed like they might have done something shooting a few first, then shooting a few more after 50 rounds but they all still took about 150 to break in which I guess is on the low end for what I’ve usually seen from good barrels, but that’s not definitive for me. If the barrels picked up speed and stopped copper fouling entirely after the first 50 rounds and then never picked up speed again I’d be somewhat convinced but that’s not what happened so I’m not. They are great at eliminating carbon rings though. I smoked out all 3 of those barrels running H4350 and would do a light cleaning, run two throat maintenance bullets, and light clean again and did this every 300 rounds and I never got a carbon ring in any of them.

 

[Supersubes]

A count? No idea. I was taught this way by the 'smith I worked under back in '92. Since then, I've spun a "a couple" barrels.

You don't have to do it., if you don't believe in it. I'm not offended. Really. You believe in your way, I believe in mine. It's your gun. You do you, I'll do me. I was answering the direct question of the OP of my thoughts and my steps. Plain and simple. IMO, a "waste of ammo" is when you blast away and don't learn anything from it.

You keep talking about learning stuff, but you haven’t said what it is you learn when you break-in the way you do. Most of us were given the same technique, and repeated it with each new barrel. After years of doing it myself, the learning didn’t start until I tried something different. I now had a point of comparison, and I learned that the break-ins were doing nothing measurable. So I switched to learning what bullet and powder my new barrel likes on its first outing.

You certainly can do whatever you want, nobody is disputing that, and nobody is offended.

 

[Dthomas3523]

A count? No idea. I was taught this way by the 'smith I worked under back in '92. Since then, I've spun a "a couple" barrels.

You don't have to do it., if you don't believe in it. I'm not offended. Really. You believe in your way, I believe in mine. It's your gun. You do you, I'll do me. I was answering the direct question of the OP of my thoughts and my steps. Plain and simple. IMO, a "waste of ammo" is when you blast away and don't learn anything from it.

My point exactly. You have no data to speak of or show what you’ve learned.

This is how anecdotal dogma get passed down for years.

I’m all for whatever method works if someone can say “I did 20 barrels this way, and 20 barrels that way. The first way repeatedly performed better based on xyz.”

Plenty of us have been shooting and such for 20, 30, 40 years. It always seems to be the ones without any empirical data that point out how long they have been doing something.

 

[rustyinbend]

REALLY interesting discussion. I started a few years ago with the 1 shot - clean (x5) and worked my way up (3, 5, etc.) ... always spending my first range day in the "Cleaning Mode". That's how I was told to do it. Stopped that on the last few new rifles and opted for a 20-30 round first range trip focused on zero'ing the scope and getting an accurate velocity measurement ... followed by a good cleaning upon return home. On comparison, the latter has actually settled my groups faster and provided better results. That's when I learned that you can actually "clean the accuracy out of a barrel" if you over-break-in and clean too often. That's been my learning, and my journey.

 

[Niles Coyote]

On a new barrel I clean for carbon at the end of each range session and continue to do this until I notice velocity stabilizes.
On my current Benchmark in 6GT my first three shots averaged 2852, at 64 rounds it had sped up 32 fps and now at 161 rounds I'm 22 fps faster for a total gain of 54fps from new and gains have slowed considerably. Time to start serious load development.

 

[A&8's]

So exactly what have you learned from almost 30 years of fucking around with cleaning a bunch at the range? Apparently not that barrels are broken in by bullets passing down them, not jags and brushes with solvent and that it also takes a lot more than a typical 20-30rd break in procedure to accomplish that.

A high quality hand lapped barrel usually takes 150-250 rounds to be broken in. A shitty rough factory barrel like a Remington, Savage, etc I’ve had take as much as 500 rounds before they settled in. Cleaning does not accelerate the process. I’ve broken in a crap load of barrels and used to do the lengthy procedures and one day said fuck this shit and just started shooting them and what I learned is that I wasted a lot of time and effort for nothing.

The only thing I’ve seen that helps break in is the Tubbs stuff. I’ve ran the final finish on several stubborn factory barrels and it worked. I also played around with the throat maintenance bullets on a few Bartlein 6mm barrels and they seemed like they might have done something shooting a few first, then shooting a few more after 50 rounds but they all still took about 150 to break in which I guess is on the low end for what I’ve usually seen from good barrels, but that’s not definitive for me. If the barrels picked up speed and stopped copper fouling entirely after the first 50 rounds and then never picked up speed again I’d be somewhat convinced but that’s not what happened so I’m not. They are great at eliminating carbon rings though. I smoked out all 3 of those barrels running H4350 and would do a light cleaning, run two throat maintenance bullets, and light clean again and did this every 300 rounds and I never got a carbon ring in any of them.

You keep talking about learning stuff, but you haven’t said what it is you learn when you break-in the way you do. Most of us were given the same technique, and repeated it with each new barrel. After years of doing it myself, the learning didn’t start until I tried something different. I now had a point of comparison, and I learned that the break-ins were doing nothing measurable. So I switched to learning what bullet and powder my new barrel likes on its first outing.

You certainly can do whatever you want, nobody is disputing that, and nobody is offended.

My point exactly. You have no data to speak of or show what you’ve learned.

This is how anecdotal dogma get passed down for years.

I’m all for whatever method works if someone can say “I did 20 barrels this way, and 20 barrels that way. The first way repeatedly performed better based on xyz.”

Plenty of us have been shooting and such for 20, 30, 40 years. It always seems to be the ones without any empirical data that point out how long they have been doing something.

What data or what do I learn during the way I do barrel break in? Well, at no time did I say I just send rounds down the tube willy-nilly. After the 1st 5 rounds, I start load development. At the end, if I chose the right powder/bullet combo, I'm about 90% done. Sure, after 150 or so it'll speed up a bit. But nothing that a tiny bit of tweaking can't adjust for. No different than someone starting load development right out of the gate. They, too, will need to tweak a touch after it speeds up. I, also, learn how a particular barrel shoots a clean/cold round, and if it returns to POA after 1 round, 2 rounds or 4 rounds. So, while you think it's foolish and a waste of time. The only thing I see I "wasted" is a bit of cleaning solvent and about 100 patches. Why is it that nearly every barrel maker worth their salt has a suggested break-in procedure? Are they in cahoots with cleaning suppliers? Is it for insurance purposes? Or do they just want to make themselves feel like they know more than Joe Q citizen that plops his hard earned money down on their barrel? Regardless of what the reason, they all seem to have a similar procedure. Conspiracy? Coincidence? Or maybe they just like to feed people full of BS. If that's the case, is a gain twist any different than a 5R or 4 or 3 or 2 groove, for that matter, barrel? ((And before someone says/implies I'm a fucking idiot...I have no idea if there even is such a thing as a 2 groove rifling.)) Long and the short of it is. While either, or both, of you may have a doctorate in metallurgy (if there is such a degree). I, in fact, do not. So, I'll do the same thing as I have with every barrel for the past nearly 30 years, spend my $3 extra dollars on wasted solvent and patches.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I don't break in my barrel, I break in my brass.

I shoot 100 loads at or near published max to: 1. initially fireform my batch of brass for this barrel, and to 2. ensure that the bullet obturates fully, and does whatever polishing copper jackets may do all the way down to the most reachable portion of the groove.

Even owning a bore scope, I can't say with any certainty that the polishing aspect is a valid concern; and I treat it with all the distrust that I can conveniently manage.

Further, knowing/not knowing that; I still believe it makes better sense to do my initial load development after that polishing attempt, and after the brass is fireformed.

It's a plan, not a certainty.

I used to coat my fireforming bullets with JB Bore paste, and other times, I would use the "one box method". 20 rounds, clean after each of the first five, once after the next five, once again after the last ten.

I can't say whether any of this has ever made a critical difference.

I believe that doing something, instead of nothing, satisfies a personal need, rather more than a mechanical one.

If I had that need once, I no longer do. At 73, my remaining time is limited; I'd rather waste as little of it as I can.

I'm a lazy man, and a youngest Brother. I waste less time by watching others (beginning with my Elder Brothers) make mistakes that I can also learn from. That's a significant part of what I do here at The 'Hide.

Greg

 

[Dthomas3523]

What data or what do I learn during the way I do barrel break in? Well, at no time did I say I just send rounds down the tube willy-nilly. After the 1st 5 rounds, I start load development. At the end, if I chose the right powder/bullet combo, I'm about 90% done. Sure, after 150 or so it'll speed up a bit. But nothing that a tiny bit of tweaking can't adjust for. No different than someone starting load development right out of the gate. They, too, will need to tweak a touch after it speeds up. I, also, learn how a particular barrel shoots a clean/cold round, and if it returns to POA after 1 round, 2 rounds or 4 rounds. So, while you think it's foolish and a waste of time. The only thing I see I "wasted" is a bit of cleaning solvent and about 100 patches. Why is it that nearly every barrel maker worth their salt has a suggested break-in procedure? Are they in cahoots with cleaning suppliers? Is it for insurance purposes? Or do they just want to make themselves feel like they know more than Joe Q citizen that plops his hard earned money down on their barrel? Regardless of what the reason, they all seem to have a similar procedure. Conspiracy? Coincidence? Or maybe they just like to feed people full of BS. If that's the case, is a gain twist any different than a 5R or 4 or 3 or 2 groove, for that matter, barrel? ((And before someone says/implies I'm a fucking idiot...I have no idea if there even is such a thing as a 2 groove rifling.)) Long and the short of it is. While either, or both, of you may have a doctorate in metallurgy (if there is such a degree). I, in fact, do not. So, I'll do the same thing as I have with every barrel for the past nearly 30 years, spend my $3 extra dollars on wasted solvent and patches.

Until said barrel makers can provide data showing they tested barrels not “broken in” vs barrels “broken in”.......it’s absolutely anecdotal.

Its 2020. Being able to keep a record of testing and showing some sort of empirical data is easy. Without it, you have zero credibility, no matter who you are.

 

[Supersubes]

What data or what do I learn during the way I do barrel break in? Well, at no time did I say I just send rounds down the tube willy-nilly. After the 1st 5 rounds, I start load development. At the end, if I chose the right powder/bullet combo, I'm about 90% done. Sure, after 150 or so it'll speed up a bit. But nothing that a tiny bit of tweaking can't adjust for. No different than someone starting load development right out of the gate. They, too, will need to tweak a touch after it speeds up. I, also, learn how a particular barrel shoots a clean/cold round, and if it returns to POA after 1 round, 2 rounds or 4 rounds. So, while you think it's foolish and a waste of time. The only thing I see I "wasted" is a bit of cleaning solvent and about 100 patches. Why is it that nearly every barrel maker worth their salt has a suggested break-in procedure? Are they in cahoots with cleaning suppliers? Is it for insurance purposes? Or do they just want to make themselves feel like they know more than Joe Q citizen that plops his hard earned money down on their barrel? Regardless of what the reason, they all seem to have a similar procedure. Conspiracy? Coincidence? Or maybe they just like to feed people full of BS. If that's the case, is a gain twist any different than a 5R or 4 or 3 or 2 groove, for that matter, barrel? ((And before someone says/implies I'm a fucking idiot...I have no idea if there even is such a thing as a 2 groove rifling.)) Long and the short of it is. While either, or both, of you may have a doctorate in metallurgy (if there is such a degree). I, in fact, do not. So, I'll do the same thing as I have with every barrel for the past nearly 30 years, spend my $3 extra dollars on wasted solvent and patches.

Break-in methods are given by barrel manufacturers because people like yourself insist there must be one. It keeps the phone from ringing. One of the owners of Bartlein barrels has already posted in this thread. As the maker of arguably the best barrels in the world, he doesn’t go through the trouble you do. What does that tell you? That’s not to say you can’t pay attention to what’s going on in the bore during normal cleaning, we all do that.


It’s been stated and re-stated. You have no point of reference for an alternate method. As Dthomas3523 correctly pointed out, it’s dogma for you. 30 years of it.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Break-in methods are given by barrel manufacturers because people like yourself insist there must be one. It keeps the phone from ringing. One of the owners of Bartlein barrels has already posted in this thread. As the maker of arguably the best barrels in the world, he doesn’t go through the trouble you do. What does that tell you? That’s not to say you can’t pay attention to what’s going on in the bore during normal cleaning, we all do that.


It’s been stated and re-stated. You have no point of reference for an alternate method. As Dthomas3523 correctly pointed out, it’s dogma for you. 30 years of it.

To be clear, I’m all for being educated on any process that works. Just show me the data.

AMP is a great example. Buy into what they say or not, at least they are turning out data.

 

[Lowlight]

In the last 12 years, I have only had to break in two barrels...

One that I chambered myself when taking a class on building a rifle, and I have no background in machining, so how I chambered it was probably barely on the scale of acceptable. First time ever running a manual lathe, so it was all on me and my technique

This tells you a lot more than the anecdotal data of someone "feeling emotionally" better because they did break in a barrel with no point of reference. Like maybe the fact one of the two barrels out of way more barrels than people responding to this post. In other words I have put more barrels into play than being talking about here in this thread. So think about that a second:

Maybe your gunsmith sucks, and the chambering was done poorly hence the need to break it in.

That would also point to the debate about factory barrels, the chambering done at the factory, especially in the past, prior to companies switching to CNC Machines were probably done shitty too, so we see imperfections in the Chambering Process that had to be corrected.

Today with CNC Machines chambering, with higher quality barrels like Bartlein, which are cut on a CNC machine themselves and not on an Old Pratt machine, we see less reason to break in a barrel.

The barrel break-in process in 2020 is more of an emotional process vs a physical one.

The other barrel I had to break in was a Lothar Walther from GA, not Europe. This was a pre-fit and had to go through about 125 rounds to stem the copper fouling. Lothar barrels are known to be very hard, so chambering them is a bit harder according to most gunsmiths in the know. What this means is the tools sharpness is just as important as the speed in which it is cut.

The difference today vs yesterday is:

Most realize you can break in the barrel and get past the velocity changes, and fouling issues, simply by shooting it normally and cleaning it after. The shoot 1, clean, shoot 5 and clean is just a dumb slow way of doing the same thing. The cleaning in-between is usually because in the past accuracy got so bad, you had to clean it to maintain any consistency. Today it's much less of a problem. So we know in calibers like the 6mm many comp guys will shoot, you'll have a velocity change around 150 to 200 rounds in. So get warmed up with the first 100, shoot them not in groups but on steel and then clean it. After 100 rounds you can start testing and grouping hopefully by this point you will see the velocity move then you know the barrel is good.

I had two exactly the same TRG22 rifles bought at the same time. Broke one in and left one alone and shot it. Today you cannot tell which one is which. They are identical in every single way, no excessive fouling with one vs the other, nothing to show for the effort. That is the point many are making. The data is just not there...

You can have a chamber with tool marks, bad gunsmith, you can have a barrel that is fouling excessively, could be a bad barrel, the tool was too close to the end of service as that stuff has to be changed and sharpened. You can think your brush is making a big impact on the stainless steel of your load, but your powder charge is making a bigger impact, it can be cleaned after the fact and accomplish the same thing.

But break-in is not so much "Barrel" as it is gunsmithing and chambering, so with modern CNC machines doing much of the work, you can skip it. It's the old Lathes and how they were made which is what changed this conversation.

Though as I am sure has been posted, it was said to be a scam from the start. You sell more barrels if you convince to use them up faster

 

[LeftyJason]

From @TheGerman

 

[RLinNH]

THis was one hell of a good read.

 

[FLguy55]

Here's my take if anyone cares. I do many things based on law of averages and sometimes on the 80/20 rule. The way I see it, tons of people say don't bother, but when actual barrel makers like MPA and Bergara say to perform these elaborate break ins I tend to give them some consideration. Those dudes truly understand the science behind this stuff. So...I meet everyone in the middle.

I've done the full shoot once, clean, repeat 5 times. Then same with 3, etc etc. For one I just cleaned real good out of the box, went and put 90 through it, cleaned real good right after and don't plan to clean again till it drops accuracy. Moving forward I'm gonna meet those two in the middle and probably clean real good before first firing, then shoot 3 and clean and repeat that say 3 times then call it a day.

Way I see it the actual barrel makers can't be completely crazy with what they're pitching but either can thousands of people that have gone the opposite direction.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Here's my take if anyone cares. I do many things based on law of averages and sometimes on the 80/20 rule. The way I see it, tons of people say don't bother, but when actual barrel makers like MPA and Bergara say to perform these elaborate break ins I tend to give them some consideration. Those dudes truly understand the science behind this stuff. So...I meet everyone in the middle.

I've done the full shoot once, clean, repeat 5 times. Then same with 3, etc etc. For one I just cleaned real good out of the box, went and put 90 through it, cleaned real good right after and don't plan to clean again till it drops accuracy. Moving forward I'm gonna meet those two in the middle and probably clean real good before first firing, then shoot 3 and clean and repeat that say 3 times then call it a day.

Way I see it the actual barrel makers can't be completely crazy with what they're pitching but either can thousands of people that have gone the opposite direction.

When you talk to those barrel makers privately and offline, most will tell you they give a procedure because the customer demands one.

 

[FLguy55]

When you talk to those barrel makers privately and offline, most will tell you they give a procedure because the customer demands one.

Dang it I knew it! LOL. And that's why I play it safe and land in the middle.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Dang it I knew it! LOL. And that's why I play it safe and land in the middle.

Although, on factory barrels like bergara, rem, Savage, etc......you definitely might have some rougher tooling marks that need to be burnished. Never know when you got a barrel on the last leg of the tooling’s life.

 

[mtnhunter22]

I have typically done the 1 shot clean, 2 shots clean, 3 shots clean method but after reading this my ways may have changed haha

 

[Dthomas3523]

I have typically done the 1 shot clean, 2 shots clean, 3 shots clean method but after reading this my ways may have changed haha

I now treat my barrels the exact same way from start to finish of the barrel life.

Clean it (might be oils and such from chambering)

Borescope and make sure clean and nothing looks terribly wrong.

Shoot.

Clean after every 100 ish rounds. Unless a match that is more. But the most would be around 300 rnds (two day round count plus any zero or dope)

Borescope and make sure clean and nothing looks terribly wrong.

Rinse and repeat for the life of the barrel

 

[Dthomas3523]

Any my cleaning is very quick.

Run a wet nylon brush with a battery drill back and forth for a bit. Patch dry.

Plug barrel and fill with CLR. Soak for a couple hours.

Drain and patch dry.

Inspect with borescope and decide if I need to do anymore brushing.

Literally about 10min of actual work. And a little time soaking while doing other stuff.

 

[mtnhunter22]

I now treat my barrels the exact same way from start to finish of the barrel life.

Clean it (might be oils and such from chambering)

Borescope and make sure clean and nothing looks terribly wrong.

Shoot.

Clean after every 100 ish rounds. Unless a match that is more. But the most would be around 300 rnds (two day round count plus any zero or dope)

Borescope and make sure clean and nothing looks terribly wrong.

Rinse and repeat for the life of the barrel

How thorough of cleaning are you doing every 100-300 rds? After my break in I’m not cleaning for closer to 500 typically.

 

[Dthomas3523]

How thorough of cleaning are you doing every 100-300 rds? After my break in I’m not cleaning for closer to 500 typically.

Basically like new. The soak and brush take most everything out. Fouling it back is quick.

I have basically adopted f class and bench rest ammo and cleaning standards as that is their bread and butter.

 

[dustingaunder]

I usually shoot 30-40 rounds working up and looking for pressure. Clean when I get home.

Last barrel shot out the gate. I just need it to speed up so I can do my load dev. No copper fouling on the patches. Cleaned up quickly.

All of my low pressure sighters 37-38.5gr H4350. Low shot I pulled and high shot was 41.5gr looking for max before I went home. Under 1” for a 4.5gr spread, heh.

 

[Dthomas3523]

That’s another reason I use borescope.

Can have what looks like clean patches. Still some carbon or copper deposits in barrel.

 

[RLinNH]

Well, this is my first "precision" rifle in a chamber I have been looking into for quite some time. I will follow the manufacturers recommendation that's detailed in the owner's manual.

 

[47guy]

ive shot over 30 barrels in the last 16yrs...i had 1 barrel that i put 900 rounds through and it never shot a group under 1"...i had 1 barrel go at 700ish rounds and another go at 850 rounds...these 2 barrels where hammers right up to the time they let go...i had a 6CM i shot 900 rounds through before cleaning....of these 30+ barrels only 1 was a factory barrel...savage 300wm...this barrel was a hammer until i hit 50-60 rounds and it would foul so bad it would start throwing fliers....i did the full 50 round break in with the 300wm barrel.

ive done the recommend 50 round break ins...ive done the shoot one clean until patches are clean or light blue and just about every break in in between as well as just go shoot it....ive never seen a difference in how a barrel shoots VS break in or not.
that said i personally do a little/light break in but NOT because i think it shoots better but because it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

 

[Steel head]

that said i personally do a little/light break in but NOT because i think it shoots better but because it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

I do shoot a fairly mild load the first 100-200 shots but that’s mainly to get a first firing on brass and get barrel up to full speed.

I do clean the barrel well before I start sending shots with it.

 

[47guy]

I do shoot a fairly mild load the first 100-200 shots but that’s mainly to get a first firing on brass and get barrel up to full speed.

I do clean the barrel well before I start sending shots with it.

patch with light solvent then 5 dry when new.

i shoot 1 clean...if the patch is light blue i shoot 10 clean and im done...if the patch is dark i shoot 1 and clean again...ive only had a couple of barrels that produced a dark patch the first round and after the 2nd round they were good...after this i to run lighter loads for the first 100 rounds but then the last several years ive had to fire form anyway so it works out.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I also use a new barrel as an excuse to buy 200 pcs of new brass. Load middle of the road loads and practice shooting at 900 or so. As the velocity speeds up, forces me to make corrections.

So, I get correction practice at distance, speed barrel up, and get once fired brass.

 

[47guy]

ive cut back to 110pcs of brass because im lazy and dont like processing all that brass...but then i dont shoot any matches that require more than 90 rounds or more than a day...i use to run 300 at a time.

 

[Steel head]

I also use a new barrel as an excuse to buy 200 pcs of new brass. Load middle of the road loads and practice shooting at 900 or so. As the velocity speeds up, forces me to make corrections.

So, I get correction practice at distance, speed barrel up, and get once fired brass.

And that fuzzy feeling you were nice to the fresh barrel which means nothing
The other three are win win win as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Another point that will shed some light on “manufacturer recommendations”:

Some Ammo manufacturers still put a 200yd zero and drop in inches on the box.....

 

[hengehold]

Hi everyone my name is Tom. I recently bought a browning x-bolt max Target varmint. I was wondering what everyone thinks about barrel break in and what steps I should take. Thanks

generally no. But I check the barrel for signs of copper fouling as an indicator of a need for a “breaking in” process.

1. I use a borescope to look at the throat for copper.

2.Copper also can show up in the last inch or so at the muzzle which can be seen without any special equipment.

3. push a copper solvent soaked patch
Through a barrel with a jag to look for signs of blue which indicates copper is present.

I generally shoot a new barrel to sight in (10 to 20 rds) and use one of these 3 options to check for copper. If copper is found in the barrel then I go through a break in process. The majority of the time I do not find copper in a new barrel.

 

[b6graham]

Another point that will shed some light on “manufacturer recommendations”:

Some Ammo manufacturers still put a 200yd zero and drop in inches on the box.....

to be fair. this is much more relevant for hunters

 

[Dthomas3523]

to be fair. this is much more relevant for hunters

Only because they expect it as they aren’t using up to date methods.

Same as barrel break in. Consumers expect it so they publish it.

 

[b6graham]

Only because they expect it as they aren’t using up to date methods.

Same as barrel break in. Consumers expect it so they publish it.

yup.

but cant argue with the number of deer taken with stupid barrel break in and box ammo drop numbers

just like how a 6creed could never be used for hunting (see 243 Win) hahahahha