Gunsmithing Barrel Nitriding Results

[kennyg]

I am thinking about having a barrel nitrided on an upcoming build, and I know a bunch of the members here have had this done to their barrels. I just wondered if anyone would be willing to share the results?

Accuracy gained or lost?

Velocity gain? How much?

I have read a lot of threads on the subject, but haven't found too many concrete results yet. I looks like a good deal, but I thought I would check with those who have already had it done to their barrels. Thanks.

 

[MOAxp]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

Accuracy consistent, no real velocity gain on centerfire. Barrel life improvement was the deciding factor. One of the early users of the Melonite was American Arms and Ordnance for their 50 cal rifles. Charlie Poff was a strong supporter of this process and all his rifles/bbls were treated that way. If you expect to gain speed, dont bother - if you want to extend life of the barrel, I believe you will be happy

 

[kennyg]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

Extended barrel life is a plus for sure. Any idea how much it is extended by? I have heard numbers all over the place thrown around, but I don't know if there is anything concrete. Barrel life seems to vary so much anyway.

 

[Skyking]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

I just did my 7saum. Should have it back together this week. Here is the before targets.
Lots of info no this stuff now.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2653056#Post2653056

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2686494#Post2686494

 

[kennyg]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

Great! I can't wait to see the after results!

 

[kennyg]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

After reading that thread I am not sure about it, sounds like some have experienced loss in accuracy?

 

[mattj]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

A friend just had a bad nitriding experience:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2692280

...so there certainly can be great results, but there is the possibility of it going horribly wrong and having to replace the new barrel.

 

[kennyg]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

Wow that is not cool. It seem so tempting, especially on barrel burning calibers, but I guess at this point it is a gamble??

 

[taseal]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A friend just had a bad nitriding experience:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2692280

...so there certainly can be great results, but there is the possibility of it going horribly wrong and having to replace the new barrel. </div></div>

Who says it's the melonite? Could have been a bad barrel...

 

[Chiller]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A friend just had a bad nitriding experience:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2692280

...so there certainly can be great results, but there is the possibility of it going horribly wrong and having to replace the new barrel. </div></div>

Who says it's the melonite? Could have been a bad barrel... </div></div>

Problem is you will never know.....

 

[turbo54]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kgw43</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow that is not cool. It seem so tempting, especially on barrel burning calibers, but I guess at this point it is a gamble?? </div></div>

Yes, it's a gamble. You are subjecting a highly precision-machined piece of steel to temperatures that cause molecular and phase changes... Metal moves when you heat it. More heat = more movement. It doesn't always (and generally doesn't) return to its exact original shape.

That said, I'll be sending in two 260 barrels soon.

Wish I could give credit where credit is due, but I don't know who coined this one:

"You pays your money, and you take your chances"

 

[kennyg]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

Turbo54,

Will these be your first barrels to have done? Are you going to shoot them first? I just can't decide if I should try this, or just save my money and put it towards another barrel.

 

[Emouse]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kgw43</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow that is not cool. It seem so tempting, especially on barrel burning calibers, but I guess at this point it is a gamble?? </div></div>

Yes, it's a gamble. You are subjecting a highly precision-machined piece of steel to temperatures that cause molecular and phase changes... Metal moves when you heat it. More heat = more movement. It doesn't always (and generally doesn't) return to its exact original shape.

That said, I'll be sending in two 260 barrels soon.

Wish I could give credit where credit is due, but I don't know who coined this one:

"You pays your money, and you take your chances" </div></div>



Absoluteley true,...if you want to nitride the bore then think carefully about the steel the barrel is made of and the nitriding process chosen. Salt bath or melonite is NOT the best way. Do your research.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kgw43</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turbo54,

Will these be your first barrels to have done? Are you going to shoot them first? I just can't decide if I should try this, or just save my money and put it towards another barrel. </div></div>

Yep, they'll be my first barrels to be treated. I'm pretty savvy when it comes to metal and its properties, and also lots of the various heat treatments out there and their associated effects. Based on my research, I'm gonna give it a whirl. I'm absolutely in LOVE with Glocks Tenifer finish. You just can't hurt it. Its about invincible. It never rusts! Its amazing! After I got my first Glock, I began wishing that every ferrous piece of metal I own was finished this way.

That said, yes, I intend to shoot my barrels first. I *somewhat* subscribe to the theory the chambering reamer will leave a few transversely oriented scratches/dingleberries in the throat of a chamber. If in fact zinging a few bullets over that spot helps smooth it out...better do that when the hardness is ~40Rc, and NOT when its 65+Rc!!! My intention is to fire/clean for about 10 shots on each barrel, then send them out.

If you are really on the fence and you just can't afford a failure, then obviously, don't risk it! Skip the process and go shoot!

 

[kennyg]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

thanks for the reply. Are you going with to have MMI do the treatment for you?

 

[kennyg]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

Anybody else out there care to share their experiences with this process, whether good or bad?

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

Im happy with mine so far. 243ai. I never shot a group before sending it out. I put 10 rounds down the barrel, cleaned it and shipped it off. I have a little over 600 down it now and it takes 4 patches to clean the copper. Carbon is another story.

I just yanked a beenland 260 barrel with 72 rounds down it. Im having the threads switched from 5/8x32 (why do they use these goofy threads?) To 5/8x24 and then its getting Nitrided.

Im happy with the results so far. Just have to keep track when the ai barrel goes south.

 

[kennyg]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goin'Hot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im happy with mine so far. 243ai. I never shot a group before sending it out. I put 10 rounds down the barrel, cleaned it and shipped it off. I have a little over 600 down it now and it takes 4 patches to clean the copper. Carbon is another story.

I just yanked a beenland 260 barrel with 72 rounds down it. Im having the threads switched from 5/8x32 (why do they use these goofy threads?) To 5/8x24 and then its getting Nitrided.

Im happy with the results so far. Just have to keep track when the ai barrel goes south.</div></div>

Hey what do you mean by "carbon is another story?" I am glad the nitriding thing is working out for you!

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

I'm finding a carbon ring built up just forward of the throat in the rifle. I believe it's more a function of the cartridge rather than the Nitriding. It is a true PITA to get rid of. I've resorted to using brushes which I had stopped doing. I would usually use the foaming bore cleaner and follow it up with Butches Bore Shine.

 

[kennyg]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

That sounds nasty. How many rounds can you shoot before accuracy is affected?

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

Gonna say around 300. I printed a couple groups after the last match and found the groups unacceptable. They were in the 7/8" - 1.25" range. I've not taken it back out to see if the accuracy has been restored or not. I hope to get it out this weekend.

The first 2 shots would go into the same hole and then it would start throwing "flyers". I don't think I can call them flyers when it was the next 3 shots.

 

[gme]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

just got two barrels back from trutec, assembled up the rifles, they were fired for group before (15 rounds) and after processing, the accuracy was not affected but I was very dissapointed to find areas of significant corrosive pitting in both barrels.

 

[kennyg]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

So you are saying the inside of the barrel was actually pitted? Any ideas why this happened?

 

[gme]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

yep, have no idea, the bores were thoroughly bore scoped before departure, and were spotlessly clean, I'm waiting for a response from them.

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

I just mailed my 260 barrel out to them this morning. I'll throughly inspect my barrel upon return. My 243ai barrel was perfect in and out.

 

[kennyg]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yep, have no idea, the bores were thoroughly bore scoped before departure, and were spotlessly clean, I'm waiting for a response from them.</div></div>

Keep us posted!

 

[steve123]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kgw43</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody else out there care to share their experiences with this process, whether good or bad? </div></div>

No problems so far.250 rounds through the barrel.More velocity than the same barrel preciously worn out.At least half a grain less powder to get the same velocity.Don't have access to a bore scope but will measure throat erosion soon.Much less fouling than the last barrel as well.7-8 patches with Butches bore shine and it's clean enough.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

Are these companies aware of how delicate a rifle crown is and all of the do's and donts of firearms?
I've seen people insert steel hooks into crowns and into the chamber/throat area for hanging barrels. Not the best idea.
I worry about that when sending parts off for things like this. Im not even comfortable sending out for Cerakote.




I saw a show on TV about Melonite years ago, before ever hearing discussion on the web about it being done to rifle barrels and wondered if it would increase barrel life. I was intrigued then and am intrigued still now, I just worry about the people handling the barrels/parts

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

I've not seen the actual process but, I would imagine it is lowered into the solution in a basket.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

I saw it on TV once and Im pretty sure they were hanging 1911 parts by steel hangers.

I know for a fact its common practice to use steel hooks for bluing. One in the muzzle end and one in the action or chamber. If done slowly and cautiously it might be okay.


But is the guy doing it at the facility aware of how cautious to be or is he getting paid $8 an hour to "make these metal parts black"

Just something I worry about..

 

[J Lo]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

Tag

 

[gme]

Re: Barrel Nitriding Results

Here's a study by the South Korean Defense Department regarding pulsed plasma nitriding in small arms barrels, it's a different process than the salt bath method but worth the read.
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_life1.pdf