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Battle of the Savage 110s
- Thread starter 9245
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Here ya go:
www.snipershide.com
Firearms - Howa 1500 6.5cm in krg bravo
6.5 Creedmoor Howa 1500 with KRG Bravo chassis. $950 OBO Scope, and muzzle break not included(I do have the original thread protector). This rifle is an excellent choice for Precision Rifle Series (PRS) and National Rifle League (NRL) competitions, or just for enjoying long-range shooting...
www.snipershide.com
I dont think
The majority of people here aren't rolling in cash and started out the same way. Unable to justify spending a ton of money on a hobby they're just starting out in, and not having the hobby as a priority in their lives. So we cheaped out with the entrance fee. We acted poor. The next step is enjoying the hobby and actually prioritizing it because it makes you happy. In which case the wallet is now open because you want to keep making progress in the hobby. And all the arguments people made here in this thread all start to make sense, and you find yourself also telling people to stop being poor when they ask what low quality piece of gear they should spend their hard earned money on.
Sorry for gaying this thread up even more than it already is
I don't think stop being poor means what you think it means. Now I only speak for myself but I don't doubt my interpretation isn't shared by most everyone here...
The majority of people here aren't rolling in cash and started out the same way. Unable to justify spending a ton of money on a hobby they're just starting out in, and not having the hobby as a priority in their lives. So we cheaped out with the entrance fee. We acted poor. The next step is enjoying the hobby and actually prioritizing it because it makes you happy. In which case the wallet is now open because you want to keep making progress in the hobby. And all the arguments people made here in this thread all start to make sense, and you find yourself also telling people to stop being poor when they ask what low quality piece of gear they should spend their hard earned money on.
Sorry for gaying this thread up even more than it already is
Savage takes work to make it right. If you LIKE to tinker is a great learning platform.
I bought an action, single shot sled, barrel nut, lug, then a pretty laminated stock the wife liked.
This was to replace her AR for prone competition.
Got a long throated 28" bull barrel from Shilen. (throated to Dummies)
Then went to work fixing things. First was to change springs and shim the Accutrigger.
2oz blade force, 7 oz total pull and NO false trips.
Next was the bolt. Removed ejector, added the bigger ball under the extractor. Modified the adjustable firing pin to increase pin fall, with a different spring, and my own version of a lift kit.
Smoothed rough edges. Modified the cocking ramp shelf and notch. Shimmed the rear baffle to increase primary extraction.
Shortened the rear baffle detent spring to reduce drag. Added the long heavy bolt handle.
Rifle now seems pretty darn smooth, trigger is SAFE, and she is shooting better. Got her first ever 200 @ 600 (low X count
). But, it takes work (often tying up the kitchen) to make it right. No gun smiths, just reading years and years of posts by the experts.
The whole trip has been fun. We practice and compete together. Not going to win any awards, but we enjoy shooting together ( more than dinner and a movie).
I bought an action, single shot sled, barrel nut, lug, then a pretty laminated stock the wife liked.
This was to replace her AR for prone competition.
Got a long throated 28" bull barrel from Shilen. (throated to Dummies)
Then went to work fixing things. First was to change springs and shim the Accutrigger.
2oz blade force, 7 oz total pull and NO false trips.
Next was the bolt. Removed ejector, added the bigger ball under the extractor. Modified the adjustable firing pin to increase pin fall, with a different spring, and my own version of a lift kit.
Smoothed rough edges. Modified the cocking ramp shelf and notch. Shimmed the rear baffle to increase primary extraction.
Shortened the rear baffle detent spring to reduce drag. Added the long heavy bolt handle.
Rifle now seems pretty darn smooth, trigger is SAFE, and she is shooting better. Got her first ever 200 @ 600 (low X count
). But, it takes work (often tying up the kitchen) to make it right. No gun smiths, just reading years and years of posts by the experts.The whole trip has been fun. We practice and compete together. Not going to win any awards, but we enjoy shooting together ( more than dinner and a movie).
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Never look through your buddy’s zco either. Or shoot is AI….
You’re absolutely correct. I learned I love this sport more than any other, I should’ve saved up a little longer and had built the custom I wanted at the time. 8 stocks and chassis’s later, I learned I should’ve just bought the AI I lusted after. I would’ve been money ahead.
Jesus Christ man, did you even click the link? That rifle comes with a very serviceable optic, and case. You don’t need all the tooless lop bullshit either. You’re learning, learn to shoot before you think you absolutely have to have everything. My 12 year old has a tikka t3x in 6.5 cm thin barrel, chopped to accommodate a thunderbeast adapter, $20 stock pack, factory stock with the more vertical grip, swfa 10x in tps rings. Hits at 1000 4/5, 100% at 600, clay pigeons all day at 500. I’m $950 into it minus the suppressor.
$100 in shipping?! It’s over night, even with that and FFL transfer fees you’re right at your budget for a ready to run rig. Save pennie’s, give hando’s for $20 at the truck stop, whatever, buy the bravo chassis later.
Hmmmm....well....this has been (again) an entertaining topic. To the OP:
First things first, a Howa 1500 is NOT a 700 Rem footprint. (Not sure where someone got that notion.)
Second Savages can be made to shoot, but it's making a silk purse from a sow's ear. Many of us (myself included) started that way (still have about 5 of them in the very back of one of the safes), so know from experience, the journey. 20 years ago they were really the only option of a home gunsmith'ed rifle that didn't require a lathe. Today we have rifles and actions that pre-fit barrels can be purchased for them. People here are just trying to save you the grief of going down the Savage rat hole, because it really isn't justified anymore.
As for being one of the "poors", that is a tongue in cheek statement that originated here on the Hide, from our very own "The German" when he famously told someone trying to do something similar (being penny wise and pound foolish) to "Go Be Poor Somewhere Else" when they kept trying to justify their position, after asking for advice and not liking it. It has evolved into a self deprecating assessment of our own frugalities at times, as well as a way to tell someone to quit fucking around and just take the leap. Degrading? Possibly, if you didn't understand the commonly understood meaning of the bantering phrase. But in reality, it's just normal banter here, and is often said tongue-in-cheek.
Now if you want to continue down the Savage path, please, do proceed. It's your money, so it's your decision. You asked for advice, and people tried to give it. Now you decide if you want to heed that advice or not.
Over the last 20 years here on the Hide, as well as other social media, I learned that it's very important to know when to stop arguing with people, and just let them be wrong. Maybe they'll learn, maybe they won't. <shrug> Not my circus, not my monkeys...
Either way, I wish you well in whatever you decide.
v/r
MPMI
First things first, a Howa 1500 is NOT a 700 Rem footprint. (Not sure where someone got that notion.)
Second Savages can be made to shoot, but it's making a silk purse from a sow's ear. Many of us (myself included) started that way (still have about 5 of them in the very back of one of the safes), so know from experience, the journey. 20 years ago they were really the only option of a home gunsmith'ed rifle that didn't require a lathe. Today we have rifles and actions that pre-fit barrels can be purchased for them. People here are just trying to save you the grief of going down the Savage rat hole, because it really isn't justified anymore.
As for being one of the "poors", that is a tongue in cheek statement that originated here on the Hide, from our very own "The German" when he famously told someone trying to do something similar (being penny wise and pound foolish) to "Go Be Poor Somewhere Else" when they kept trying to justify their position, after asking for advice and not liking it. It has evolved into a self deprecating assessment of our own frugalities at times, as well as a way to tell someone to quit fucking around and just take the leap. Degrading? Possibly, if you didn't understand the commonly understood meaning of the bantering phrase. But in reality, it's just normal banter here, and is often said tongue-in-cheek.
Now if you want to continue down the Savage path, please, do proceed. It's your money, so it's your decision. You asked for advice, and people tried to give it. Now you decide if you want to heed that advice or not.
Over the last 20 years here on the Hide, as well as other social media, I learned that it's very important to know when to stop arguing with people, and just let them be wrong. Maybe they'll learn, maybe they won't. <shrug> Not my circus, not my monkeys...
Either way, I wish you well in whatever you decide.
v/r
MPMI
Except for the reloading part as that’s BS.
Even with todays prices you can load match 6.5CM for under $1/rd.
I don’t get paid to go shooting so I don’t pretend to pay myself for reloading time as my real job is salaried so no overtime.
Over the 4K+ rounds you based your pricing on the equipment has long since been paid for.
$1000 will get you everything you need to load good ammo so figure $.20/rd at most for the equipment.
I’ll revise my amount to $1.25/rd then including the reloading equipment.
It’s still well under the $2.10/rd you are paying for your loaded ammo.
That is an auction with over 6 days remaining, I doubt very much that it will stay that price. And even if it did I don’t have that much upfront, the plan was to do it in stages, rifle, chassis, and then optic, not all at once.
I started loading in December of 2003, I quit thinking I was saving money in about 2008 then stopped arguing with ppl that think reloading is cheaper in about 2010….I just smile and wave now.
Hornady match is currently running $42/20 at Academy Sports.
Over a reloader’s career, equipment and brass amortize themselves into nearly nothing. Reload 10,000 rounds with $1000 worth of equipment and that is $0.10 per round. Load more and it’s less. Yeah, some guys are spending 10s of 1000s on reloading equipment, but you don’t need it to reload ammo that runs in front of Hornady Match.
Same with brass. Buy Hornady brass for $86 per 100 and load it 10 times, that’s just $0.09 per cartridge. Primers are running $0.10 per, powder is in the $50/lb range, and ELD-M bullets can be had for $40/100.
Equipment $0.10
Brass $0.09
Primer $0.10
Bullet $0.40
Powder $0.30
That’s roughly $1 per round, about 1/2 what I can find Hornady Match for locally.
I also don’t get paid to shoot, nor do I get paid to sit on the couch, watch a movie, read a book, or anything else that I might do outside of my profession. So reloading time is just part of the hobby- a tedious part.
If this is the case, why not increase your budget for something worthwhile that you'll likely never outgrow and, can sell to recoup most of your investment (if not all of it) if you decide the discipline is not for you?
If you're acquiring parts of the system in stages, grab an Impact or something similar first, wait a bit while funds reaccumulate then grab a prefit bbl of your choice in cartridge, contour, length...wait a bit more and grab a chassis or stock that actually meets your needs vs a compromise you wont be completely happy with?
Sounds like you're arbitrarily limiting yourself for no apparent reason, being penny-wise and lb foolish in the process.
No shit. I started because an elder at the range wanted to help me get the best accuracy I could from my .300 WBY Mag for an elk hunt. Often the shots are 400+ where we hunt. At the time that was a challenge for me. Killed one at 515 with Kentucky windage. Anyway, $10K+ later, I have a Giraud trimmer, V4, single stage , Dillon progressive, a million other small tools and a shit ton on supplies
Guess what it's way cheaper to go to Costco and buy that fish....better throw all my fishing gear away.
Of course I consider reloading an enjoyable hobby and I'm not that important and don't bill my time at 400 bucks an hour do to being a poors. So for me it's a win-win.
I think when most people say “reloading doesn’t save you money,” what they are actually saying is that they shoot more than they would if they were buying factory ammo. I know that I certainly do.
There's more benefit to reloading than just the dollars and cents accounting (see below for more of that); having total control over your supply chain with the caveat you properly and sufficiently stock up on individual components, cuts out a huge amount of risk otherwise inherent with dependencies on factory ammunition...Look no further than the past five-ten years...Motherfuckers on GB were selling cases of 55g mil-surp ball 5.56 at 338 Lapua prices and other motherfuckers couldn't grab it up fast enough...Costs ballooned to well over 3 bucks a round for a period of time.
Meanwhile, I continued to produce Mk262 Mod 1 clone ammo in quantities that met my needs with zero supply shortages / crunches...throughout Covid, I was shooting twice per week, nothing changed in that respect. Externalities had no real impact on my ability to supply to meet demand (my shooting cadence/schedules) plus reserve requirements. The kicker: unit cost per round remained at $0.73/round which is computed using component unit costs based on what I paid for each component.
Here's a horizontal comparison between factory ammo and my reloading cost flow to produce 6.5 Creedmoor match ammo - note this was put together in 2021 so does not reflect current market but should give an idea how I account for small scale ammunition production.
While I understand why some still use Factory ammo exclusively, I'd never go back to it, apart from keeping small amounts on hand for T/E work.
By the way the NRA called me today to become an endowment member to help fight the new ammo bill. What ammo bill I asked? Pocahontas introduced this bill requiring ammo be sold only by ffls and only after a background check. Oh and limits on how much and what type of ammo you can buy....for the chilrens of course. That reloading looking a bit more valuable now? And yeah I declined the offer.
My plans have shifted to a Howa 1500 barreled action (based on some of the input here), I have given some passing thought to the Tikka that has been mentioned a few times and were it available as a barreled action instead of paying for a stock that is just going to be tossed I might give that consideration too if I could find it for around $600ish, but I have not found a barreled action for any price, and I even looked at the Solus, but for about $900 for just the action, not even counting the barrel that is probably going to be another $300-$500 at least, plus I still need the chassis and the optic, probably about another $1,200 there, I just don’t think I can justify it. Yes it would be better, but would I really benefit much from that? Is it worth the extra $900-$1,100? I’m not convinced yet.
However I still think it would turn out OK with the Savage, and with the Trail hunter I would be OK with the barrel it comes with so that barrel would be more than worth the $10. The stock not so much. I don’t understand how someone can part out a rifle then try to sell just the action for damn near what they paid for the full rifle and keep a straight face. Seriously, who would be dumb enough to pay that? When I can find the whole rifle for $510, brand new, why in the hell would I want to spend $500 on just the action?
He strikes me as the guy to do it if it will save him $10... just messing with you OP
Well, what do you think the action is worth? The seller certainly thinks that everything but the action is worthless. But, the only thing people praise a Savage for is the accuracy. Then, very little of the accuracy comes from the action. It’s pretty much all in the barrel. If the only thing “good” about a Savage is the accuracy, and the accuracy is in the barrel, and the barrel is worthless, what is the action worth?
Oooo very interesting, I’m going to have to research that one, the price is about dead on, considering that I wouldn’t need a chasis.
This right here^^^!!No shit. I started because an elder at the range wanted to help me get the best accuracy I could from my .300 WBY Mag for an elk hunt. Often the shots are 400+ where we hunt. At the time that was a challenge for me. Killed one at 515 with Kentucky windage. Anyway, $10K+ later, I have a Giraud trimmer, V4, single stage , Dillon progressive, a million other small tools and a shit ton on supplies
I personally only know of 1 person that has bought reloading equipment and not replaced 90+% of it over the years and I am spitballing here but probably know 50-75 guys that reload and most ppl forget or do not factor all of this in to the reloading equation.
I don`t know. I think the HS Precision stock on my Savage Model 12 LRPV is pretty good. So is the 26" SS heavy varmint barrel. Those, along with sub-MOA accuracy at 500 yards through 1300 rounds. Then again it`s not a $400 Axis either.
I work 13+ hours a day(part of owning a business)so my time is valuable...to me....and unlike you I do not like reloading, its a necessary evil to achieve doing what I enjoy doing which is shooting various types of matches and placing well in them...in 5yrs or so I will most likely enjoy reloading again, until then I don't...and even though a fish is cheaper at Costco I still enjoy catching my own.
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This right here was the main reason I considered reloading. It was not to make juicy recipes. It was availability. I would probably find one of their standard loads and do a ladder test and stick with whatever I find.
That`s pretty good! Hadn`t heard that and there`s some truth to it, I think. Mom used to say, " It`s said money can`t buy happiness. True in some things.........but try living without any for a while. "
Money doesn’t buy happiness, but it sure helps alleviate the stress of not having enough of it, and what all comes with that scenario. I think we’ve all been there. I spent most of my life as a poor.
Time’s money and the V4 and Giraud are game changers.
LOL! Time is money....
But yeah, reloading saves you money <eye roll>. Not.
But yeah, reloading saves you money <eye roll>. Not.
I have a savage model 10 I’ve had for almost 20 years. I then bought a Howa 1500 from brownells and put it in a KRG Bravo. Then I sold that and used the funds to put together an ARC Nucleus based rifle.
If I were the OP I’d buy the tactical model and not mess with any “upgrades”. Put anything left in your budget into the optic. My savage has always shot well, but it’s worlds apart from something like my nucleus, which is worlds apart from some of the higher end semi custom actions I’ve shot.
Long story short, savages shoot great, but they aren’t worth going down the custom rifle route on. I’d buy the one with the most features that match what you want and just shoot it.
If I were the OP I’d buy the tactical model and not mess with any “upgrades”. Put anything left in your budget into the optic. My savage has always shot well, but it’s worlds apart from something like my nucleus, which is worlds apart from some of the higher end semi custom actions I’ve shot.
Long story short, savages shoot great, but they aren’t worth going down the custom rifle route on. I’d buy the one with the most features that match what you want and just shoot it.
Nothing wrong with being on a tight budget. Any of the brands shoot well anymore. I own several savages that I spent money on that can never be recouped, still own them and shoot them. I also own better. I wouldn't waste the money on building another one at this point of my life.
Buy what you can afford and shoot the thing doesn't matter brand. If all you can afford is to upgrade little by little then so be it. Shoot it a lot between. Money spent on ammo and a good optic isn't wasted
James
Buy what you can afford and shoot the thing doesn't matter brand. If all you can afford is to upgrade little by little then so be it. Shoot it a lot between. Money spent on ammo and a good optic isn't wasted
James
It's not about the money saving , it's about being able to tailor a round to a rifle and not being the dolt that can't shoot because there's no ammo available for his rifle at local stores or online for a decent price.
While a lot of shooters weren't shooting matches because of ammo shortages I was loading and blasting away.
I just smiled and waved to the guys that shot 5 rounds and had to leave the range because they had to conserve ammo.
SJC
Yup. Same here. I was conserving, but only because when it hit, I wasn't prepared on my primer stashes, but plenty of everything else. Now I'm good to go. Fool me twice, shame on the government, fool me a third time ain't happening...
LOL! Time is money....
But yeah, reloading saves you money <eye roll>. Not.
Just think, you saved enough to buy all of that expensive equipment because you handloaded
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