Gunsmithing Bedding in front of the recoil lug?????

[bas402]

Looking for a logical reason why this is done by some and not by others. I change barrels but stick with the same contours and have seen the shanks vary quite a bit. This bedding in front could cause issues IMO

 

[surgeon260]

Tagging in. I've also wondered about the science behind this.

 

[John Glidewell]

Support of heavier / longer barrels. Relieves stress on action.

 

[surgeon260]

I don't think it's that simple. Some of the top smiths out there don't do it, even on super heavy barrels.

 

[Supersubes]

I’m not a fan of it. For switch barrel guns it’s a no-go. For guys who change barrels frequently, that area will have to be re-bedded each time. Even if the shanks were identical in diameter between two barrels, the bore would NOT be identically centered within the shank which would shift the mass of the shank around enough to cause interference. Someone brought me a 6.5 creed for muzzle threading recently. I took it all apart, and did the job, and then went through the tedious process of getting the barrel back to the exact index it was at before I took it apart. I didn’t build the gun, didn’t know how how tight the barrel had been torqued, and there were no caliber markings on it for reference. Some trial and error was involved. Had it been my gun, I’d have milled that material away.

All those things aside, I don’t think it hurts anything if one chooses to do it.

 

[bas402]

I don't think it's that simple. Some of the top smiths out there don't do it, even on super heavy barrels.

I agree that’s why I’m posted I got builds from some of the top smiths out there and have found that the smiths that build hunting and tactical rifles tend to bed in front of the lug about 1” and the bench rest smiths do not so that blows the support theory for longer barrels and stress relief on the actions. Heck some action mfgr have longer tenion and this bedding practice is still done. Again my reason for posting is I switch barrels on a couple of my builds and can’t help but think it could be a issue and being that a lot of pre-fits are becoming available. Just want a explanation or reason

 

[bas402]

I’m not a fan of it. For switch barrel guns it’s a no-go. For guys who change barrels frequently, that area will have to be re-bedded each time. Even if the shanks were identical in diameter between two barrels, the bore would NOT be identically centered within the shank which would shift the mass of the shank around enough to cause interference. Someone brought me a 6.5 creed for muzzle threading recently. I took it all apart, and did the job, and then went through the tedious process of getting the barrel back to the exact index it was at before I took it apart. I didn’t build the gun, didn’t know how how tight the barrel had been torqued, and there were no caliber markings on it for reference. Some trial and error was involved. Had it been my gun, I’d have milled that material away.

All those things aside, I don’t think it hurts anything if one chooses to do it.

Exactly so what about all theses smiths/houses spinning and shipping pre-fits?? Should folks be aware of this???

 

[Supersubes]

Yes they should.

 

[chevy_man]

My 25-06 was done this way. With the factory wood stock and barrel it shot decent, but the bedding allowed me to take it in and out of the wood stock and never change zero.

When I rebarreled I had to hog out the bedding in the channel to fit a nut, and now it does shift 1/2-1 moa taking it out of the stock.

 

[LRI]

It's a practice that was/is done by some. I've done it, but only on Anschutz 54 rimfire 22's because there it made a decisive difference. The thing to take note of in that application is that the receiver is smaller in OD, yet has 660+mm (26") length barrels handing off of it. Its an apples/onions discussion.

Done correctly it hurts nothing, but it does create more work for the guy stabbing the next barrel onto the receiver. Until we can make shit perfect, the fit between one barrel to another with the stock is going to suffer. So, they require a fresh "skin coat" of resin during a barrel swap.

The ghist anymore though (using any centerfire cartridge on a Rem clone type receiver) is that if the gun is fitted well from the start and has a quality rifle stock, there's no real benefit to it.

 

[Wannashootit]

I do it on long, heavy contour barrels.
A lot of weight acting as a fulcrum on the receiver face. There was an old-school benchrest 'smith as I recall that did some sort of testing/study on this years ago but having a senior moment and can't 'member his name...

Some do, some don't. Unlike a lot of things we do in the interest of accuracy, this one can be tested and easily reversed. Never had to do it yet, but if the results after the bedding job were less than satisfactory a few minutes with a dremel and it's taken out back to the recoil lug.

 

[natdscott]

It's a practice that was/is done by some. I've done it, but only on Anschutz 54 rimfire 22's because there it made a decisive difference. The thing to take note of in that application is that the receiver is smaller in OD, yet has 660+mm (26") length barrels handing off of it. Its an apples/onions discussion.

Ain’t rimfires a bitch?! lmao!

 

[Shooter71]

GAP does it.
TacOps does it.

Might reach out to them for their reasons.

 

[natdscott]

Might reach out to them for their reasons.

You’re approaching this all wrong. What a guy needs to do is call Mike and tell him he’s doing it wrong, and offer to correct him.

It’ll be fun.


Promise.

 

[Shooter71]

I was being serious, sometimes a call or email to the guy doing it will answer the “why”, for them.

 

[pabrousseau]

reason not to bed ahead of receiver is barrel expansion creating upward lift on the front of the receiver when it is hot. some bed ahead of the receiver on hunting rifles to give more support to barreled action in the stock in case of rough handling such as shoved in a scabbard on a horse and a hunting rifle is usually not fired in long strings.

 

[Mbaysinger89]

I do it to my rifles just because its easier to make a nice dam an inch ahead of the lug instead of pushing putty down into the recess then cleaning it out and doing it again until the putty stays where you want it. Lazy, maybe, but I havent seen any bad effects.

 

[natdscott]

I do it to my rifles just because its easier to make a nice dam an inch ahead of the lug instead of pushing putty down into the recess then cleaning it out and doing it again until the putty stays where you want it. Lazy, maybe, but I havent seen any bad effects.

Use molding clay and layers of 10 mil tape in front of the lug, on the bottom of the barrel.

No dam needed, and anything that bonds to the bottom of the barrel will automagically have the required space to float.

 

[spife7980]

I damn it up with play dough and then cut it for a clean line and scrape away excess with a razor blade. Gives a clean line as well.

 

[natdscott]

Yup.

 

[carlsbad]

I say never.

 

[bas402]

Thanks for all the replies, I have 1 SB rig set up without and it performs flawlessly and will follow up the same way with this one cause I don’t want interference with barrel changes.

 

[Blysccr]

Would you guys do this in a Manners T4A with a 18" 308 barrel that has already been pillar bedded? I'm in between doing it myself, getting a local smith to do it, or sending to the manufacturer of the barreled action.

 

[Brux]

Some of my rifles have it and some don't. I personally have never witnessed any issues with it either way. I really don't see how it could affect anything.

 

[Mbaysinger89]

See how it shoots before you do anything. I bedded a GRS stock to a Howa 204 that shot .75ish. Dropped my Wby Vangaurd 243 in and its .4-.5. No reason for my shooting abilities to chase tighter than that.

 

[Blysccr]

Reason I ask is because some videos I was watching showed distinct wear marks and didn’t want to potentially mess something up with the force of the recoil with the action not fully supported. I’ll give it a shot. Thanks

 

[Terry Cross]

I have gone full circle with this.
About 25 years ago, I started bedding in front of the lug.

About 10 years ago I stopped.
I have no regrets for not doing it and have seen no actual negatives. Lot of my guns are not handled lightly once they leave the shop. No issues with POI shift, zero retention or anything else I can I.D. with full floated barrels.

Not my lane but dudes and dudettes shooting NRL, PRS and similar are shooting some big ass contours with lengths longer than I have ever seen on field rifles. Almost all of there are fully floated in chassis, glass stocks with internal chassis ( Manners Mini Chassis or KMW I.M.B.) or bedded stocks. Those people would cut their dick off it it would get them one extra point so I don't think they would be running anything they found to be less than solid.

./

 

[XLR308]

The biggest difference I have seen it makes has nothing to do with accuracy.
On my big sample size of two ?? a manners T4 and a Greyboe Renegade it significantly stiffens up the forearm out to the end of the stock and shows far less tendency to flex at all.

 

[stainless007]

reason not to bed ahead of receiver is barrel expansion creating upward lift on the front of the receiver when it is hot. some bed ahead of the receiver on hunting rifles to give more support to barreled action in the stock in case of rough handling such as shoved in a scabbard on a horse and a hunting rifle is usually not fired in long strings.

There are many trains of thought on this, I believe it comes down to how the rifle is used. A competition rifle that is shot many times within minutes, the barrel will get hot and expand, potentially pushing the barrel upward. Most long-distance and competition shooting is mostly a controlled environment.

A hunting rifle is out in the elements is a different story. The hunting rifle (bolt action) "might" be shot 3 times within minutes (poor animal, get your ass to the range!), and you don't want water (mildew, condensation, rain, sweat, etc) getting between the barrel and the stock, considering that most hunting is during the wintertime and freezing will push the barrel all over the place; left, right, up, and any combination thereof. Hunting rifles are dropped; walking and hiking to the stand or while stocking. Sometimes you inadvertently lean, push or pull on the barrel, yeah it happens. Dirt, mud, brush, leaves, moss, etc can get wedged between the barrel and stock. Hunting rifles get shoved into holsters for transport (horse, 4-wheeler, truck, backpacks, etc.), some of these contain moisture, dirt, and a combination thereof, or placed in a carrier and put in the back of the truck only to get rattled, bumped, and jolted around.

Many high-end safari rifles are fully bedded, with the idea that you are taking 1-2 shots and they better be perfect shots because you may not get a second chance, the last thing you want is an off zero rifle that has been flown to Africa, where your ammo may not be available (oh and customs might take your some of your ammo, limiting your options to "re-zero".).

So why did those old guys fully bed a stock because they didn't want anything to chance that would change zero with a hunting rifle. Also many only had one rifle and they couldn't risk something between the barrel and the stock that could throw things off and didn't have the tools or place to take apart a rifle in a canvas tent to clean grit or gunk between the stock and barrel.

Any thoughts from the old-timers here?