Beginner - Do I have to re-zero when I shoot at a new location/elevation?

[richthe1]

Sorry if this isn’t okay here - I’m a beginner to shooting and the Hide, so I’m learning the ropes. I was listening to Ryan Cleckner’s Going Ballistic podcast (episode #24, around the 25 min mark) and they brought up an example that if you zero your rifle at Death Valley (0ft above sea level) and travel to Denver (5,280ft above sea level) my zero is going to be off. Okay, makes sense.

Does my ballistic calculator “know” my zero will be off and adjust for that, or will I have to re-zero? I was trying to use BallisticsARC as I have a weatherflow, but unless I am missing something I do not believe BallisticsARC lets you input the environmental data for your zero. Ryan Cleckner said the Ballistic: AE does let you input your environmental data for your zero, so you shouldn’t have to re-zero. Am I understanding this correctly? Anything I’m missing?

 

[_Windrider_]

It knows as long as you record your zero atmosphere in the ballistic calc and update your current atmospherics where you are shooting.

 

[richthe1]

It knows as long as you record your zero atmosphere in the ballistic calc and update your current atmospherics where you are shooting.

Ok, thanks for verifying. Do you know which ballistic calculators allow you to do that (record/save your zero atmosphere and update current atmospherics)? Unless I’m missing something, I don’t think Ballistics ARC allows that which I think is weird - don’t know why they wouldn’t allow saved atmospheric zero data.

 

[richthe1]

I just read this post of Lowlight’s:
https://www.snipershide.com/density-shooting/
Here’s a snippet:
“This is down and dirty to help you understand that air density matters, and to answer that often repeated question, “How does it effect my 100 yard zero” it doesn’t. You need time for it to work on the bullet. So that means this stuff starts to kick in around 350 yards and beyond. Of course the farther out you go the bigger the swings. By my Colorado Zero remains the same even when traveling to Florida.”

If it won’t affect 100yd zero I guess it’s not that big of a deal if the environmental data for zero isn’t saved? But on the Going Ballistic Podcast Ryan Cleckner’s brother said he went from zeroing at Phoenix to shooting at Flagstaff and had to re-zero because it was off 2 inches. Which is correct? No affect at 100yds, or is there? Thanks for responses - sorry, it’s all new to me.

 

[natdscott]

Maybe.

 

[_Windrider_]

It does matter to a point. His zero may have been 2” off because the different density changed his drop right? You can handle this one of two ways, rezero or record the difference in your zero offset. But if you record your zero atmospheric you don’t have to do any of that.

Applied ballistics and Hornady 4DOF allow u to record zero conditions. BallisticAE may as well.

 

[natdscott]

Realizing my prior post is witty, yet entirely useless...I offer:

Put the cell phone down, pick up a GOOD book on the topics ( Litz' "Applied Ballistics..." is a nice presentation, and is palatable to the new (er) shooter) and read it.

Then, and post haste, get thee onto the range sans digital devices. If you can, find an old guy that was once a hard guy and try to get under his wing.

Calculators are wonderful, and I use them, but I understood the reasons WHY before I started using them heavily. There are also quite a few rules of thumb that will put your bullets damned close to a hit without the first keystroke.

I'm glad you're here asking. Just know that none of the shooters on this forum that are really hard Shooters got there by being on this forum.

 

[richthe1]

Realizing my prior post is witty, yet entirely useless...I offer:

Put the cell phone down, pick up a GOOD book on the topics ( Litz' "Applied Ballistics..." is a nice presentation, and is palatable to the new (er) shooter) and read it.

Then, and post haste, get thee onto the range sans digital devices. If you can, find an old guy that was once a hard guy and try to get under his wing.

Calculators are wonderful, and I use them, but I understood the reasons WHY before I started using them heavily. There are also quite a few rules of thumb that will put your bullets damned close to a hit without the first keystroke.

I'm glad you're here asking. Just know that none of the shooters on this forum that are really hard Shooters got there by being on this forum.

Thanks for your feedback, and appreciate the honesty. I’m actually planning on going to my first long range training course in June, and it’s from some old school guys. I’ve heard good things about that book, I’ll look into getting it. Thanks for both your witty post and this one!

 

[Yerman]

It does matter to a point. His zero may have been 2” off because the different density changed his drop right? You can handle this one of two ways, rezero or record the difference in your zero offset. But if you record your zero atmospheric you don’t have to do any of that.

Applied ballistics and Hornady 4DOF allow u to record zero conditions. BallisticAE may as well.

Actually, my Kestrel 5700 Elite does not have the ability to record zero atmosphere. At least not that I can find.

I listened to the same podcast as the OP and sent an email to both Applied Balistics and Ryan Cleckner.

AB got back to me and said 100yd zero should not change at different altitudes, only at longer ranges. I never heard back from Ryan Cleckner.

 

[CV_Ag]

Ok, thanks for verifying. Do you know which ballistic calculators allow you to do that (record/save your zero atmosphere and update current atmospherics)? Unless I’m missing something, I don’t think Ballistics ARC allows that which I think is weird - don’t know why they wouldn’t allow saved atmospheric zero data.

BallisticsARC allows you to do it. Using your location and then the weatherflow meter will input all the environmentals you need.

 

[kthomas]

Something else is going on if he is off 2" going from Phoenix to Flagstaff. That is more than DA coming into play.

I have taken my rifle to Canada, Washington State, Colorado, Oklahoma, Texas, etc. and zero is rarely ever off by more than one or two tenths of a mil.

If you are traveling with your rifle, you will want to check the zero when you get to your destination to ensure that something mechanical didn't happen to your rifle and scope while in transit.

Even if you did have the ability to enter this data in a ballistics program, I'm not sure yet why you would need or want this feature. From my experience, DA hardly effects zero. And you are going to want to re-zero your rifle anyways to make sure mechanical it is good.

Perhaps I am completely missing something, and there is value in having this feature, but I just don't see it.

You are on the right track on focusing on putting the correct details into your ballistics program - this is a shortfall of many shooters (more than the majority). The more precise you are on the details you enter in the program, the better the outputs will be.

 

[Nik H]

I live in RI at sea level and occasionally get to shoot in CO at 9400 elevation.

Zero is within 0.1 mil

 

[LawnMM]

As long as your zero is accurate at both elevations it won't affect the solution. That's why we zero at 100yds. One less thing to worry about.