Benelli m2 vs Beretta 1301 vs Wilson Combat CQB

[redneckbmxer24]

Everyone is going to like what they like. If I have an M4, I'm not going to review the 1301 favorably. If I own an 870, I'm not going to recommend the M4. This will be the usual response you will get on any forum.

However, I'm of the belief, that you should own multiple shotguns, so that you're not missing out on anything. I might own an 1100 and an M4. Both do their jobs very well but they both do different jobs.

Shotgun are indispensable.

That’s called bias, and most people are based on what they have like they’re offended that someone disagrees with there personal choice. Not everyone is like that though, and some people are even outright nerds that have to try everything.

4-5 years ago I walked into Gander Mountain when they were going out of business and that day I spent nearly $30K there. The majority of that money went to shotguns, here’s a list of what I bought that day:

Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon 12ga
Beretta A400 Xcel 12ga
Benelli Supersport 12ga
Benelli Supersport 20ga
Benelli Montefeltro Silver 12ga
Benelli Montefeltro Silver 20ga
Benelli Ultralight 28ga
Benelli M2 12ga
Benelli M2 Tactical 12ga
Benelli SBE3 12ga

I shot all of them, most of them a lot. It wasn’t uncommon for me to shoot a case or two of clays a day in my back yard. When I moved they all got sold along with almost all of my other shotguns except a couple that have sentimental value. Why? Because I decided that the M4 does the role of every one of those shotguns in one package. The only one I miss a little is the A400, that was one sweet sporting shotgun and cycled everything.

You say someone who likes the M4 wouldn’t review a 1301 favorably? Bullshit. I think it’s a great shotgun, I’m even on the wait list for one right now and have been for almost two weeks now. I have a use for it, but are they as reliably and tough as an M4? Hell no.

The M4 is the ultimate tactical shotgun. Period.

 

[nockhunter]

If you want a tough shotgun, look to see what the dove ranches in south America are using. They go through more shotgun shells in a month than most will see in a lifetime.
I did some research and bought a 20g Montefeltro, I all ready have a Beretta A390 12g. I couldn't find a 20g version to my liking, so I got the Benelli. I really like the Benelli, but I have always liked the Beretta also. Neither have let me down. That A390 has cycled everything from cheap sport loads to slugs and turkey shells. The Montefeltro has handled everything so far, skeet loads to high brass pheasant loads. The gas guns shoot a little softer than recoil guns, just don't hang a bunch of junk on the recoil gun, it may not cycle properly.

Mike

P.S. I just picked up a synthetic Beretta A300 for duck hunting, I don't want to wreck the wood on my A390. It works well also.

 

[nockhunter]

I forgot to mention that my homegun is a Beretta 1201FP (recoil/inertia operated), I picked up at Cabelas for a song. Super light weight, but works great.

Mike

 

[S_R]

1301 all the way. I’m running comp model with 24” with Toni system extension, I love with it. Now waiting on 1301T OD green to become available.

 

[BullGear]

1301 all the way. I’m running comp model with 24” with Toni system extension, I love with it. Now waiting on 1301T OD green to become available.

Not to single you out, but have you shot the M2 or M4 to compare these shotguns?

 

[S_R]

Not to single you out, but have you shot the M2 or M4 to compare these shotguns?

I had m3 21” barrel. Reliable yes Inertial system not my preference, can’t be neglected too long because it’s painful to clean it.
Why I switch to Beretta? IMO beretta lighter, handles like lightening, cleaning is easier using brake cleaner. Shorter stock letting me better wrap around it.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Not to single you out, but have you shot the M2 or M4 to compare these shotguns?

You weren't addressing me, but I've shot the 1301 and M2 back to back quite a bit. There's no question that the M2 recoils quite a bit more and it seems like half of them won't run 1145fps ammo while the other half will. The 1301's broader stock adjustability is a huge but entirely overlooked advantage it has.
Last thing I've noticed is that M2's are just like Glock's. All their owners claim flawless reliability, even while you're watching them clear malfunctions. It's always the ammo, or mags, or disagreeable lunar phase or some shit.

 

[billt]

The Benelli M4. The best $650.00 shotgun money can buy...... For $2,000.00.

 

[clubsportmark]

My .2p

Firstly I think I OP needs to define his uses. Lots of assumptions going on here. However with the models he’s mentioned, I would also assume combat / home defence shotgun. However we need to find out if he also plans to use it for 3-gun, hunting, clays etc.

You’ve also mentioned 1 pump & 2 semi auto’s. All have their advantages and disadvantages. I would try and settle what side of the fence you are before then choosing between each model.

People are also right / wrong and inherently advise what they own rather than listening to what the person wants/needs. Also people’s concept of what is reliable is somewhat skewed, again no fault on their own when they have a sample size of one. I think unless you’re in a unit which uses this stuff in the hundreds or some form of retailer which gets to see the returns. When people don’t own it, people don’t care about it and then treat it like shit. Plenty of “bomb” proof stuff isn’t bomb proof. Acog’s, RMR’s, S&B 3-12x50, Peltor com tac’s etc I see all fail regularly.

Personally if it’s a combat / defensive shotgun I would go for a semi auto. Modern day semi’s are very reliable and for the most part negates any reason to have a pump. Softer recoiling, faster follow up shots, no brain fart moments (all for the lay person)

I think the 1301 vs m4 will be as equally reliable. So go which one you prefer the ergo’s, stock, features etc you most prefer. Go physically handle before making up your mind.

I own an M2, use 870 & M4 in a professional capacity. If it were my money….. the Benelli M4 for HD / combat use.

However you can’t beat the M2 for a multi purpose use. Such as hunting / clays / HD….. only if you “upgrade it”. M2 has it limitations….. however pretty much buy everything from Taran Tactical & Nordic components you’re laughing. With the reduced recoil spring it will handle pretty much everything. Only JUST about splits out 21g carts. Also remember gas semi’s are only 100% reliable if you clean them. Something very nice when you can’t be arsed to clean an M2 is just run a bore snake through the barrel & job done. Having no gas parts to worry about is very refreshing sometimes and makes putting up with increased recoil.

 

[B y r o n]

870 is fine, but get a beater $150 one from a pawn shop, throw a mag extension on it, hacksaw the bbl to 18in,and let it be. It's a damn solid pump gun, but is massively under qualified compared to a solid semi.

The Wilson one is taking a $275 gun, adding $700 in bullshit to it, to make it cost $1800, but be worth $250. Miss me with that gay shit.

I have to disagree with you on the "massively under qualified compared to a solid semi." I used to go shooting in the desert against cousins with semi autos and I had my 870. I could cycle the 870 faster then the semi's and won all our speed contests. Hard to beat an 870.

Forgot to mention, you had to hit the targets for shots to count for the wins.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I have to disagree with you on the "massively under qualified compared to a solid semi." I used to go shooting in the desert against cousins with semi autos and I had my 870. I could cycle the 870 faster then the semi's and won all our speed contests. Hard to beat an 870.

Forgot to mention, you had to hit the targets for shots to count for the wins.

 

[B y r o n]

View attachment 7702035

Glad you appreciated it. I also used be a firearms instructor for a large law enforcement agency on the West coast and instructed in the use of Benelli M2 shotguns. I enjoyed them and they shot extremely well. The Remington 870 would still out cycle them. So where do you feel I'm wrong in my assessment?

 

[M4guru]

I wonder why no top 3-gunners voluntarily use a pump gun then?

I am certain Jerry Miculek could wreck me with a pump gun regardless of what I was using. However I am sure if Jerry could beat Jerry with a pump he’d use that instead.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

The Remington 870 would still out cycle them. So where do you feel I'm wrong in my assessment?

I see people shoot .15 splits all day with M2's. Never seen less than .25's while I've ran a timer for a pump guy, and that's wicked fast for them.

But mostly I'm just glad that you shoot better than your cousins. We have that in common. Too bad it means nothing.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I wonder why no top 3-gunners voluntarily use a pump gun then?

Because there's no heat in any pump divisions. It's no fun going to a 250 shooter major and beating all 3 guys in your division by a mile.

 

[MikeMiller]

I carried a shotgun on SWAT back in the stone ages
I still have my old Benelli M1 brought in by HxK
If it’s the most bang for the buck the 870 will do you well. Plus it will run all the specialty rounds that won’t cycle in inertia or gas guns
If it’s for running buck or slugs I like the Benelli M1 or M2 with 14” barrel

I also like ghost rings because I can hit you out to 100 yards with slugs fairly easily. Can’t do that with a bead

don’t know the Berreta 1301 because the 1201s. Had such crap stocks I lost my taste for them. They managed to make a Benelli kick like a mule with slugs by putting the cheap sticks on them at Beretta

now that all that has been said I would not carry a shotgun for anything but door busting, gas launching in this day unless i could not get my hands on a good AR

 

[B y r o n]

Maybe the example I gave wasn't the best, the point I was trying to make is that sometimes simple is better and sometimes faster and more accurate. You have to wait for a semi auto gun to cycle but don't have to wait for a pump gun to cycle and with practice manually cycle it faster.

Jerry can run a revolver faster than just about everyone, even semi auto's, but he practices. Also, how many times do semi auto pistols fail for one reason or another when a revolver functions with every pull of the trigger.

The OP didn't mention home defense but I made that assumption since he didn't mention 3 gun. In that light chambering a round with a pump shotgun is universally understood that something bad might be about to happen, not as much with a round chambering with a semi auto.

He didn't mention an 870 but others did so I figured more information may be beneficial in his decision making, or not. I'm glad to see how much other opinions matter.

 

[EotS]

That’s called bias, and most people are based on what they have like they’re offended that someone disagrees with there personal choice. Not everyone is like that though, and some people are even outright nerds that have to try everything.

4-5 years ago I walked into Gander Mountain when they were going out of business and that day I spent nearly $30K there. The majority of that money went to shotguns, here’s a list of what I bought that day:

Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon 12ga
Beretta A400 Xcel 12ga
Benelli Supersport 12ga
Benelli Supersport 20ga
Benelli Montefeltro Silver 12ga
Benelli Montefeltro Silver 20ga
Benelli Ultralight 28ga
Benelli M2 12ga
Benelli M2 Tactical 12ga
Benelli SBE3 12ga

I shot all of them, most of them a lot. It wasn’t uncommon for me to shoot a case or two of clays a day in my back yard. When I moved they all got sold along with almost all of my other shotguns except a couple that have sentimental value. Why? Because I decided that the M4 does the role of every one of those shotguns in one package. The only one I miss a little is the A400, that was one sweet sporting shotgun and cycled everything.

You say someone who likes the M4 wouldn’t review a 1301 favorably? Bullshit. I think it’s a great shotgun, I’m even on the wait list for one right now and have been for almost two weeks now. I have a use for it, but are they as reliably and tough as an M4? Hell no.

The M4 is the ultimate tactical shotgun. Period.

Shoulda kept the m2

I have to disagree with you on the "massively under qualified compared to a solid semi." I used to go shooting in the desert against cousins with semi autos and I had my 870. I could cycle the 870 faster then the semi's and won all our speed contests. Hard to beat an 870.

Forgot to mention, you had to hit the targets for shots to count for the wins.

Ok

 

[E. Bryant]

Brought home a 1301 Tactical tonight. I don't typically get wound up about long-gun weight, but compared to the M4, holy shit this thing is light. And the LOP isn't stupidly long (might need to install a spacer, in fact). Because it's so short and light, it almost feels like my 14" 590 SBS. The use of the A400-type stock shims is a nice touch, particularly since the stock has too much drop as installed at the factory (bonus points for including extra shims, which is more than Beretta did for my A400). It has properly-sized controls straight out of the box. I'm excited to shoot the thing.

 

[phxfa]

Brought home a 1301 Tactical tonight. I don't typically get wound up about long-gun weight, but compared to the M4, holy shit this thing is light. And the LOP isn't stupidly long (might need to install a spacer, in fact). Because it's so short and light, it almost feels like my 14" 590 SBS. The use of the A400-type stock shims is a nice touch, particularly since the stock has too much drop as installed at the factory (bonus points for including extra shims, which is more than Beretta did for my A400). It has properly-sized controls straight out of the box. I'm excited to shoot the thing.

The Federal LE 00 Buckshot 1145fps is your friend. Flight control wad,,,,

 

[northshorelumber]

I have several shotguns for clays and hunting, O/U-semiauto. But for my tactical shotgun have an 870 Wingmaster with 18.5” barrel, magazine extension, and side saddle.

 

[Tortuga]

After growing up with and serving with 870's, that was my go-to home defense gun. Wanting to shoot some 3-gun and maybe step up my shotgun game, I spent a lot of time researching all of the autos. The Brian Enos forum was great in getting data from high use/volume shooters. I settled on the 1301 Comp 21", Nordic Comp mag, Mesa stock, and Hi-Vis sights. I like that I can transition from light-handy bird gun, 3-gun, or home defense with just a couple of part swaps.
But like others have mentioned, what fun is there in only one scattergun? I still have 870's around and every person should experience the joy of a good O/U or S/S.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

After growing up with and serving with 870's, that was my go-to home defense gun. Wanting to shoot some 3-gun and maybe step up my shotgun game, I spent a lot of time researching all of the autos. The Brian Enos forum was great in getting data from high use/volume shooters. I settled on the 1301 Comp 21", Nordic Comp mag, Mesa stock, and Hi-Vis sights. I like that I can transition from light-handy bird gun, 3-gun, or home defense with just a couple of part swaps.
But like others have mentioned, what fun is there in only one scattergun? I still have 870's around and every person should experience the joy of a good O/U or S/S.

I’ve been thinking of doing something similar. I can’t shoot clays in my backyard anymore and the local clay range doesn’t “tactical shotguns” which they define as anything with a barrel less than 24”. I can’t get a longer barrel for my M4’s and one my 870’s 20ga is a 20” or 21” and I’m not interested in shooting clays with it, and my other is a Tac-14 that has a brace but even with a longer barrel I’m not interested in trying it either.

Been looking hard at a 1301 with the 18.5” choke barrel and then buying the 24” barrel for it to go do clays.

 

[Tortuga]

Been looking hard at a 1301 with the 18.5” choke barrel and then buying the 24” barrel for it to go do clays.

You might want to double check, but I believe the 1301 Tactical (18.5") and the 1301 Comp (21" and 24") have different receivers. Although both are rated for 2.75"and 3" shells, the Tactical has a 3" receiver and the Comps have a 3.5" receiver in order to take advantage of the larger ejection port. I doubt their barrels play together nicely.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You might want to double check, but I believe the 1301 Tactical (18.5") and the 1301 Comp (21" and 24") have different receivers. Although both are rated for 2.75"and 3" shells, the Tactical has a 3" receiver and the Comps have a 3.5" receiver in order to take advantage of the larger ejection port. I doubt their barrels play together nicely.

Interesting, I called Beretta and they said that that I could put it on and even gave me the part number. I knew the competition had a larger opening but not that it was a 3.5” receiver.

I saw somewhere that A400 barrels work in it too so maybe that’s an option.

 

[M4guru]

They told me I could use A400 Lite barrels on either model…I haven’t tried it yet

 

[phxfa]

I’ll try mine this weekend, I have a 1301 and a A400

 

[redneckbmxer24]

They told me I could use A400 Lite barrels on either model…I haven’t tried it yet

Either model being 1301 tactical or competition? If that’s the case the. Those barrels must be interchangeable too.

 

[M4guru]

Either model being 1301 tactical or competition? If that’s the case the. Those barrels must be interchangeable too.

Yeah, I have one of each so I asked about barrel compatibility. I wasn't really interested in reconfiguring the Tactical but I was curious.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I can’t shoot clays in my backyard anymore and the local clay range doesn’t “tactical shotguns” which they define as anything with a barrel less than 24”.

What kinda ultra premium fuddery is this? Those retards should just be happy to have anyone wanting to enjoy the shooting sports and stop being offended by normal length barrels.

 

[Tortuga]

Interesting, I called Beretta and they said that that I could put it on and even gave me the part number. I knew the competition had a larger opening but not that it was a 3.5” receiver.

I saw somewhere that A400 barrels work in it too so maybe that’s an option.

Sweet! I'm glad you checked instead of trusting my presumptuous ass. I'm glad I'm wrong, a tactical with a 24" on the side would be a great combo.

 

[Delicatessen]

I would suggest the 1301 of any gen. If the shell release concerns you there is a fix…or options to negate it without the fix. The shell lifter from the new pro comp is back compatible with the larger receiver models (also an option exists for the tactical); this negates the jamming from shell release and massively speeds reloads.

 

[srt-4_uk]

So this is a 1st gen Comp and Tactical. Barrels and receivers are definitely different.

The shorter gas system in the tactical makes it so I can cycle these 2.5" low recoil slugs reliably. They do not work in the comp.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

So this is a 1st gen Comp and Tactical. Barrels and receivers are definitely different.

The shorter gas system in the tactical makes it so I can cycle these 2.5" low recoil slugs reliably. They do not work in the comp.

View attachment 7713415
View attachment 7713416

Yeah that definitely won’t work. So I wonder now if the A400 barrels are compatible with the tactical or comp?

 

[srt-4_uk]

I can't speak for the Gen 2s. They might be the same...

 

[Whistlepigs]

Another Vote for the 1301...mine eats everything I feed it and right around 1500 or so through it as of now with 0 issues.

 

[BullGear]

Does Benelli say that their inertia system is self cleaning?

 

[MK20]

Yes. The duck guns with that system go for a long time without cleaning.

 

[B y r o n]

Does Benelli say that their inertia system is self cleaning?

"A.R.G.O.
Benelli’s patented Auto-Regulating Gas-Operated (A.R.G.O.) system is a simple, self-cleaning, piston-driven action."

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Does Benelli say that their inertia system is self cleaning?

I don’t believe they advertised the inertia as being self cleaning and it definitely is not when compared to the ARGO, but they don’t get too dirty too quickly unless you just shoot nasty ass ammo through it but I’ve always found shotgun ammo to be decently clean shooting. You will have to clean them though, my M2 field that was setup for 3 gun (but shot mostly clays) definitely choked up more often after around the 500 round mark between cleanings. They’re about one of the easiest guns to pull the bolt to clean though.

One of my M4’s however has to have close to 20K rounds on it and I’ve never fully cleaned anything but the choke threads. I guess I didn’t get the chokes tight enough when swapping them and after while it backed out a little and blew carbon up in the threads and that happened a twice. Not a big deal to clean either. Other than that all I’ve ever done is some drops of oil and pull a bore snake through a couple times it with a little oil on it before I put it away if I’m not going to shoot it for a while. When I was shooting clays in my backyard every day though I never did more than oil it every few thousand rounds.

 

[BullGear]

Do you use the Benelli choke tool with the tread chaser to clean them or was it too bad and had to use something else?

 

[Tex68w]

Now waiting on 1301T OD green to become available.

I just picked up my baby $hit green 1301T earlier this week. When the Aridus bits come back in stock in 2026 I will finish out the build. I'd like to take Clint's Combat Shotgun class before too long but I am hearing that he's selling the ranch soon, granted this could all be BS. As a former m4 owner I am way more excited about this purchase than I ever expected.

 

[Tex68w]

I have owned multiple generations of Benelli's from the original H&K Super 90/M1, all generations of the SBE, a Super Vinci, multiple M2's, two Legacy's, a m4, a Super Sport and a Montefeltro, it's obvious that I am a Benelli fan boy. I prefer the Inertia System when it comes to a field gun and most certainly so in the duck blind. I have my reasons for this, but 22 years of waterfowl hunting has shown me first hand that an Inertia gun is more reliable in a wet, cold and muddy environment than a piston driven gas gun. Now YMMV, but I hunt A LOT and many of my childhood friends are full time professional guides and guess what they carry for a living?!

I run dogs 60+ days a year on wild quail and we carry over/unders and side by sides when afield for upland game. Now this has more to do with what comes up to your shoulder more naturally and what points quicker but it also has to do with weight because you're carrying them on foot all day long. Upland is really the only gentleman's hunting left in this country and there are many who would scoff at a O/U in the field but they are much more accepted and common than a semi-auto when hunting over dogs. A lot of this is tradition based and personal but if the safety is used properly then I have no issue with an auto in the field but a lot do and refuse to hunt with them. My O/U's are all Italian and mostly Beretta's and my SxS's are Spanish but I'd like to add a Merkel and maybe one day a proper London Gun if I can stomach the price tag.

My m4 was nicely kitted and I loved to look at it but when it came time to use it the thing was heavy, had tiny controls (fixable) and it bit you at every turn. Sure they are over built and dead nuts reliable but I just never fell in love so it went on down the road. I'd like to add a 14" SBS model one day just because but again I doubt it would get much use.

Enter the 1301. Now I've always respected the Beretta gassers but I prefer Inertia guns so very little from Beretta's gas blaster line ever caught my eye. The 1301 is different and has changed that, it's lighter, has oversized controls, looks great, cost significantly less, and is gaining major ground in popularity. I never thought I'd be interested in one but here I am with a green one in hand salivating over Aridus parts that myself and thousands of others can't get our hands on. It's truly the best bang for your buck in terms of a tactical shotgun, no contest. I love the M2 and if I were considering getting into 3-Gun then it'd be at the top of my list but the 1301 would be there right next to it as well. Apparently unlike most I can be mostly unbiased and objective about these things even when I own most of them and still favor Benelli's.

 

[Evintos]

Yeah that definitely won’t work. So I wonder now if the A400 barrels are compatible with the tactical or comp?

Comp has the 3.5" receiver similar to the A400 Xtreme while the tactical has the 3" length receiver and correspondingly two different barrel extension lengths. The position of the gas block/piston/port assembly area also prevents the 18.5" Tactical barrel from fitting onto a Comp receiver.

The barrels that fit the 3" receivers (A400 Xplor 3", Xcel, Upland, Lite) should work for the 1301 Tactical. Someone has tried a A400 Lite barrel on a Tactical receiver and has found it has worked. Be aware that there are two different Xplor. One is a 3" Xplor and the other is a 3.5" Xplor (Unico)

Beretta 1301 Comp compatible barrels should be from the 3.5" receivers A400 Xtreme, Xtreme+, Xplor Unico

Listed barrel chamber lengths aren't a good indicator because the 3" chambered barrel might actually have the barrel extension for the 3.5" receivers.

 

[Tortuga]

This is starting to turn into a 1301 thread. Another plug for over 8 years and 1600+ posts worth of 1301 info, there's a thread on the Brian Enos forum under "Beretta 1301 Comp". Here's my "compromise" 1301. 21" barrel easily changed over to conventional stock and bird compliant magazine.

 

[Tex68w]

This is starting to turn into a 1301 thread. Another plug for over 8 years and 1600+ posts worth of 1301 info, there's a thread on the Brian Enos forum under "Beretta 1301 Comp". Here's my "compromise" 1301". 21" barrel easily changed over to conventional stock and bird compliant magazine.

View attachment 7714121

The thread on www.pistol-forum.com is nearly 500 pages long as well. Super excited to have finally added one to my collection as well.

 

[M4guru]

Comp has the 3.5" receiver similar to the A400 Xtreme while the tactical has the 3" length receiver and correspondingly two different barrel extension lengths. The position of the gas block/piston/port assembly area also prevents the 18.5" Tactical barrel from fitting onto a Comp receiver.

The barrels that fit the 3" receivers (A400 Xplor 3", Xcel, Upland, Lite) should work for the 1301 Tactical. Someone has tried a A400 Lite barrel on a Tactical receiver and has found it has worked. Be aware that there are two different Xplor. One is a 3" Xplor and the other is a 3.5" Xplor (Unico)

Beretta 1301 Comp compatible barrels should be from the 3.5" receivers A400 Xtreme, Xtreme+, Xplor Unico

Listed barrel chamber lengths aren't a good indicator because the 3" chambered barrel might actually have the barrel extension for the 3.5" receivers.

Good info. I was throughly confused when I talked to Beretta about barrels that would fit, they definitely said the A400 Lite works with both which clearly isn't the case.

 

[E. Bryant]

Ordering is open again for the Langdon LTT 1301:

LTT 1301 Shotgun w/ LTT Trigger Job

The LTT 1301 Tactical Shotgun is the ultimate Gen 2 Beretta 1301. MLOCK Rail Mount, MAGPUL Tactical Stock, QDC sling mounting point, & 7 round magazine.

www.langdontactical.com

Since I just picked up a brand-new 1301 Tactical Marine six days ago, I was a responsible human and did not immediately buy one of these. No sir, it took about 45 seconds of serious contemplation to select the options (RMR mount, no side saddle) and grab my wallet.

 

[BullGear]

Why such a high front sight?

 

[srt-4_uk]

Because the rear sight is high