Hunting & Fishing Berger 185gr Juggernaut deer results

[redirt78]

the tard is strong here

What say you Poonisher? Fighting knife vs woodcraft?

 

[jeffbird]

RNBMX - Curious about your load that is driving the 185's at 2700.
Mind sharing?


For RHunter.

fwiw - We eat deer or feral pig meat four or more days a week, so try to avoid wasting the meat.

175 SMK - 308



168 Amax - 308

 

[redneckbmxer24]

RNBMX - Curious about your load that is driving the 185's at 2700.
Mind sharing?

I posted some info on it but the thread may have disappeared. I'm running 45.0gr of Varget in Lapua cases with WLR's .018 off the lands in my AINA 1:10 Bartlien. I ran all the way up to 46gr testing for pressure and just got a little bit of blowby around the primer and it was 2750. 45.5 gave me 2730 with a ES of 13 and SD of 9 but 45 gave me a ES of 9 and SD of 1 so I ran with it. The velocity was taken with a magneto speed and verified at distance.

 

[Infinity]

the tard is strong here

Haha, my hero.

 

[jtrax]

Berger Hunting VLD VS Target VLD

Stop aiming for the shoulder.



You have not seen it because it is a stupid test. It is a match bullet. If you like Berger bullets and want to use them for hunting use the hunting VLD's, they have a thicker jacket that helps to keep the bullet mass more together. Match bullets have very thin jackets that rip apart easily and cause this crap.

This test is akin to duct taping a hammer to a broom stick to see how well it works as a golf club.

Check with Berger on this. It is actually the other way around. Target VLD's have a thicker jacket than the Hunting VLD's.

 

[redirt78]

Yeah, I believe they started calling the old VLD's "hunting" because they worked so well on game

 

[knockemdown]

^^^ that is my understanding as well^^^
The 'original' (yellow box) Bergers are actually the same bullets now packaged in the orange 'Hunting' box.
And the new "Target" Bergers have the THICKER jacket, to help handle high velocity/rpms & higher shot strings when used for target shooting.

 

[KYS]

Stop aiming for the shoulder.



You have not seen it because it is a stupid test. It is a match bullet. If you like Berger bullets and want to use them for hunting use the hunting VLD's, they have a thicker jacket that helps to keep the bullet mass more together. Match bullets have very thin jackets that rip apart easily and cause this crap.

This test is akin to duct taping a hammer to a broom stick to see how well it works as a golf club.

Incorrect. The hunting VLD's from Berger are thinner then the Target VLD's and Hybrids. But with any caliber, bullet, arrow, spear, etc. It's all about shot placement. I have taken animals with hunting VLDs and the hybrids. They all drop, given you took a good shot on the vitals. I will say that coyote really hate that 140gr hybrid. And the 180gr 7mm hybrid. OUCH!

 

[coldboremiracle]

LOL! Tard is definitely strong, or at least biased.

 

[308Gunner]

I have used match bullets in a 22-250, 270 and 308 I have taken deer and hogs with all three. I got tired of that shit and started usen a F250 to save on the powder.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Test subject #2 is in. This was taken at a hair over 320 yards with the same load, 185 juggernaut at 2700FPS. She was quartering away hard. I hesitated a minute because of the angle but I let it fly anyway. The bullet entered right behind her right shoulder, decimated the heart and both lungs and blew out the chest cavity. There appears to be almost no meat damage except for the ribs where it entered and the chest. Both shoulder are fine.

That said the bullet did it's job but this was by far the toughest deer I've ever shot. I followed a blood trail for 30 minutes and probably 200-250 yards and she was still alive with her heart and lungs turned to mush. I put one in her head from the bottom that completely removed her skull cap and brain and she still kicked some more.

So far this has proven to be an excellent hunting bullet. As soon as I get her hung up I'm going back out to try for #3.

 

[coldboremiracle]

^holy shit! That deer must have been part zombie

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'm just waiting for the idiot that's going to come along and say the same shot from a barnes that likely wouldn't have even expanded much would have dropped her in her tracks. It's gonna happen.

 

[nexusfire]

Test subject #2 is in. This was taken at a hair over 320 yards with the same load, 185 juggernaut at 2700FPS. She was quartering away hard. I hesitated a minute because of the angle but I let it fly anyway. The bullet entered right behind her right shoulder, decimated the heart and both lungs and blew out the chest cavity. There appears to be almost no meat damage except for the ribs where it entered and the chest. Both shoulder are fine.

That said the bullet did it's job but this was by far the toughest deer I've ever shot. I followed a blood trail for 30 minutes and probably 200-250 yards and she was still alive with her heart and lungs turned to mush. I put one in her head from the bottom that completely removed her skull cap and brain and she still kicked some more.

So far this has proven to be an excellent hunting bullet. As soon as I get her hung up I'm going back out to try for #3.

Shooting deer with AIAX is gangsta

 

[coldboremiracle]

I'm just waiting for the idiot that's going to come along and say the same shot from a barnes that likely wouldn't have even expanded much would have dropped her in her tracks. It's gonna happen.

Thats just it, they will all come in and say bullet "X" works better because it has for them. How could you do better than putting a window in the brisket and destroying the heart? Deer and bullets do wierd things, magic bullets cant/wont change that.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Thats just it, they will all come in and say bullet "X" works better because it has for them. How could you do better than putting a window in the brisket and destroying the heart? Deer and bullets do wierd things, magic bullets cant/wont change that.

Exactly. Which brings us to our next point. I believe it was jackass #1 that also criticized high shoulder shots and asked why in the world would somebody want to do that. Well guess what, they don't fucking go anywhere like this last one did genius. I'm in the blind as I type this and guess where the next one is going... In the top of the shoulder. I have a 243 up in the RV setup with premium hunting bullets and I'd rather carry a 18lbs rifle because of the performance I'm getting from the loads in it. I'd rather have those lousy match bullets that don't kill. I bet when I get back up top that one I shot this morning will be gone and I'll get to hunt it again. After all she must not be dead since she was shot with a match bullet.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I have to stop using "match" bullets, deer seem to hate them. Every one is dead before they know it. Here's tonight's, another high shoulder shot. It dropped and was done. I might have lost a 3" section of meat.

 

[Niles Coyote]

^holy shit! That deer must have been part zombie

Maybe #2 was licking bath salts

 

[redirt78]

Neck is laying them down

 

[Aimsmall55]

The amax seems to work pretty well too

 

[coldboremiracle]

The amax seems to work pretty well too

So well in fact, they have their own thread for em.

 

[5RWill]

Of the four deer i've shot in the past two years (admittedly not many lol) i shot two with match bullets (77gr SMK, 175gr BT LR) and two with hunting bullets (105gr VLD). None were too far but the funny thing is both my match bullet kills collapsed instantly. Granted the shots weren't in the same place. The first was taken with my .308 running a berger 175gr BT LR @ 2618fps. Shot him in the neck at 320yds, never moved. The second was a small doe (don't have a picture) shot her in the neck with my BCM MK12 with a 77gr SMK @ 2700fps at around 110yds.

Fast forwards to last year i loaded some 105gr hunting VLDs for our 18" .243 youth model running a max load of IMR 4350, eeking out 2700fps i shot a doe at around 220, figured i'd go behind the shoulder just to see how the bullet performed. She ran a good 80-100yds in the swamp that runs into our field. We found her with a 2-2.5" exit wound in a huge puddle of blood. I might have shot too much shoulder though, it's hard for me to shoot that little rifle compared to a rifle that fits me. Which bewildered me so much, because we couldn't find much blood. The day before my brother had shot one (idk where he hit it) she fell down got back up and ran off. Dad now dislikes the gun and the load, i digress. I'd rather blame myself or a rare occasion especially when i see that people have had these results with the 105gr VLD on bigger game.
Kasandra Cow elk 688yds.mp4 - YouTube

Nice results and rifle Redneckbmxer. Makes me want to go back to berger for my .308.

How are people's results with Triple shocks? That's what i have my .260 loaded in right now.

 

[Kilmore]

I shot these Deer with a .223 Mini 14 using 55 grain hunting ammo. Killed them dead, on the spot. My brother with the Browning .358, shot a trophy 6x6 the next day and blew an entire front quarter to hamburger. Overkill is a waste.

 

[coldboremiracle]

^^^Holy shit its the "A Team"!

 

[Adam B]

I love it when a plan comes together

 

[Dallas4rceMarine]

If you like Berger bullets and want to use them for hunting use the hunting VLD's, they have a thicker jacket that helps to keep the bullet mass more together.

WRONG!

"The Hunting bullet line is proving to be the most lethal big game hunting bullets available. All of our Hunting bullets are made in the VLD design. The VLD design incorporates a sharp nose that allows the bullet to penetrate 2” to 3” before it starts to expand. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organ). The combination between the shrapnel and the hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that will be 13” to 15” long. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow. Those animals that don’t go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill. Our bullets don’t poke through like an arrow (high weight retention, deep penetration bullets) but instead dump their energy where it is most effective, inside the animal. "

direct quote from http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/line-and-designs/

 

[Blackbrush]

Anomalies happen.

Berger 155 Hunting VLD through the neck of a skinny young TX deer penciled past the neck vitals and started to come apart near the exit making a 2.5" flesh wound. Muzzle velocity was 2825 and range was 163. Animal went down immediately but required a finisher. Bullet technically did exactly what it was supposed to. Had I center punched the spine, or had I been using a bullet that starts expansion immediately, the result would have been a bit different. I'm not happy nor unhappy with this. I just found it interesting.

180 SGK with muzzle velocity of 2760 at a range of 88 entered high shoulder from an angle above but upon hitting ribs, changed path and angled up and through the spine with a smallish 1.75" exit. Very little damage inside the cavity but the bullet should have gone through the lungs high. Animal went straight down but required a knife to the throat. I'm not so happy with this as I would at least like the bullet to follow a straight path.

130 TSXBT doing 3170 at the muzzle broke both shoulders, destroyed heart and lungs and gave a nice 2" exit on a mature elk bull at 186 yds. Animal went straight down and was fully expired by the time I got there.

I'm not at all saying the X is a better bullet. They are harder to get to shoot really well. I don't shoot them all that much these days. What I am saying is that in one way or another, all of these examples are anomalies. One thing you can count on is that your results will vary.

 

[bolloxinaspanner]

Here's some more support for the match bullet. This guy is thorough.
.30 cal - Hornady A-Max

 

[MLC]

I'm just waiting for the idiot that's going to come along and say the same shot from a barnes that likely wouldn't have even expanded much would have dropped her in her tracks. It's gonna happen.

I've taken that shot with a Barnes 120 TSX out of a 6.5x55 a little over 100 yards.
Only deer I've lost with a Barnes bullet.
It coughed up loads of clotted blood and lung bits.
I tracked it for hours until it fully clotted(or ran out of PSI) and moved into corn stubble.
I think that it nuked one lung but because of how tough the bullet is didn't frag the other lung.

 

[Trubester88]

I have just finished a batch of Berger 185 vld hunting bullets for my. 300 win mag at 2900 fps. I will post the Coyote results shortly. Who is excited? This guy!

 

[HOOFER]

^holy shit! That deer must have been part zombie

Same thing happened last year. Shot a whitetail doe broadside at 200 yards with a "premium Nosler hunting bullet" out of a 7mm STW At about 3200 fps and blew a fist size hole out her opposite shoulder. Followed her down to the buck brush. Saw a deer standing there looking at me. Thought to my self no way. Pulled up the binos and could see the blood coming outta her. Watched her for about 45-60 seconds. She wouldn't go down. . Gave her a .40 s&w to the head at about 15 yards. Like humans I think some have a stronger will to live.

 

[Bill Larson]

I thought the argument against hunting with match bullets was that they don't expand but rather pencil through...?

I'm guessing if the shot placement has been something other than high shoulder, say heart/ lungs or CNS, there wouldn't have been much meat damage.

This subject ( match bullets for hunting ) has been much discussed..here over the years..... and I gotta tell ya...they work great on elk..deer...and bear.... many others...who have used them will agree.....

 

[deadly_punk]

Researching the 180 sgk to load up tomorrow and couldn't believe how many people have reported either bullet blowing up on the shoulder or penciling through. Does this scare me? Nope. Not even s little. Bullet failures on game happen. Regardless of whether it is a bullet theoretically designed for hunting or paper. Shoot well and as often as necessary.

 

[Jerry R]

Too bad I didn't use a "premium hunting bullet" on this one. After reading this thread I now realize that I must be missing out on a lot by using a little 105 AMAX.

 

[USAS]

I love hunting gear fan boys,

"I need a new scope, with this new one I save 200grams", "military camouflage is no good for hunting", "I'm happy with 1.5moa in a hunting rifle, cause it's not responsible to shoot game past 300 anyway", "tactical rifles are too heavy to carry in the bush", Barnes bullets have some sort of miracle voodoo killing magic and of course the topic of this debate "only hunting bullets can kill game"

Now I'm gonna take my titanium actioned rifle with a barrel that's so thin it bends in the breeze, helium injected carbon fibre stock and my core lokts and hunt the "responsible" way

The day that I see anything runaway after a scenar has come knocking I'll give my match rounds away, don't see that happening anytime soon

 

[Jon Rinaldi]

Fixed it for ya. Match bullets work just fine, as proved by many here and elsewhere. Just as many hunting bullets fail as match, I'd bet its more often than not, shooter error, not the bullet. This has been discussed at length here, and proven by people who kill more game animals than most ever see. Discussed to the point it seems a foolish discussion to have.



EXACTLY! one day they blow up on impact, the next they are penciling through.


Holy shit! look at all this:


Lotta bologna there, match bullets are designed to fly, and cheat the wind, for the EXPLICIT purpose of HITTING WHAT YOU ARE AIMING AT! You are so good at discussing proven facts, how about this one; Shot placement wins, every time. Number one component to a kill is shot placement, followed by bullet weight, construction, caliber, velocity, etc. but not necessarily in that order. Hitting an animal in the right spot is probably 80-90% of killing it. So whether its a match bullet or not is not nearly as important. You are right however in that there is no need to make up another load. Most guys here shoot Tactical style rifles, and their tried and trued MATCH ammunition will work just fine for hunting, especially since they are used to it, and how it performs, and they are exponentially more likely to hit their intended POA with a gun and ammo they shoot thousands of rounds through, VS. shooting a new/recently worked up load. Not to mention the added cost of load workup, and the usual premium paid for such whimsical bullets. Whats more, some of us hunt where 200 yards is a joke, and the average shot can be up to 8-900 yards. So instead of playing with something new/different, I'll just shoot the same bullet I always do, and do it well.
1. Bullshit. I've used nothing but match bullets for the last ten or so years of hunting, I can assure you, any failures were mine, not the equipment. And there are countless others who kill thousands more animals than me with em too.
2. This statement would be true with any bullet (remember the whole thing about shot placement, it wins, every time.)

Tell me professor, if a bullet has transferred ALL of its energy into the kill, with what energy is it still traveling beyond the kill? I'll help, a bullet that goes through an animal doesn't transfer all its energy silly, thats why they taught us in hunter's safety to look beyond your target. Because the bullet can go through, and still kill something, with all that........wait for it..........left over energy. A bullet that stops inside an animal is the one that transfers ALL its energy. Whether it fragments or not is another discussion.
And even with all that technology and millions spent on R&D, all us rednecks continue to easily and humanely kill thousands of animals every year. Sounds ignorant doesn't it?

They couldn't sell you premium bullets if they did that. Just like extended warranties, they are products, made to be sold. Every company is in the market of making the newest wiz bang thing that will solve all your problems. That doesn't mean it is the only product that will do the job.

This doesn't look any worse than the thousands of deer that are killed inhumanely by cars, or shot poorly by some Nosler fan boy who cant hit the barn from inside it. Shit happens, sometimes it isn't pretty. But we are talking about killing something, show me a pretty death.......

You sound like the right tool for selling premium bullets. But I smile every time I watch an animal drop like a sack of shit when my match bullets drive through their vitals. Just dropped a coyote the other day, 500 yards on the nose, with a 175 SMK from my 16" .308. He didn't make a step before he hit the cold ground. Shot placement, it wins every time. These hips dont lie.

Shoot with anything through the lungs they'll die.