Berger 6.5mm 156g EOL, 153.5g LRHT, & 144g LRHT Load Data for 6.5 PRC

[H&H Precision Outdoors]

Good afternoon!

Wanting to see if anyone on her has done load development for the Berger 156g EOL, 153.5g LRHT, & 144g LRHT for a 6.5 PRC. If so what powders/charges, what did your ladder test look like for minimum charge - maximum charge, & how was your success?

I'm currently working on a load development for my Springfield Waypoint 2020 chambered in 6.5 PRC 24" Carbon Barrel using the Berger 156g EOL bullet, Lapua Brass, Federal Large Magnum Rifle Primers, & H1000 powder. I live in Mississippi, & currently the temperatures have been in the 90's-100.

My beginning ladder test was as followed:
54g H1000
54.5g H1000
55g H1000
55.5g H1000
56g H1000
56.5g H1000

 

[John Glidewell]

There is a thread on this. Try using the search function. Tons of data already posted.

 

[H&H Precision Outdoors]

There is a thread on this. Try using the search function. Tons of data already posted.

I just searched this on the form, & all I was able to find was people selling/buying. Would you be able to copy, & paste a link below to a form please?

 

[John Glidewell]

Learn how to use search function. Advanced, threads, limit results to reloading. Over 10 pages of 6.5 prc threads.

 

[H&H Precision Outdoors]

Learn how to use search function. Advanced, threads, limit results to reloading. Over 10 pages of 6.5 prc threads.

Thanks, I was able to find some threads after playing around with the search bar, however I wasn't able to find the information I was looking for.

 

[straightshooter1]

Good afternoon!

Wanting to see if anyone on her has done load development for the Berger 156g EOL, 153.5g LRHT, & 144g LRHT for a 6.5 PRC. If so what powders/charges, what did your ladder test look like for minimum charge - maximum charge, & how was your success?

I'm currently working on a load development for my Springfield Waypoint 2020 chambered in 6.5 PRC 24" Carbon Barrel using the Berger 156g EOL bullet, Lapua Brass, Federal Large Magnum Rifle Primers, & H1000 powder. I live in Mississippi, & currently the temperatures have been in the 90's-100.

My beginning ladder test was as followed:
54g H1000
54.5g H1000
55g H1000
55.5g H1000
56g H1000
56.5g H1000

The powders that's I've tried so far is MagPro, RL-23, Retumbo, N-565 and now H-4831SC. Projectiles I've used are the Berger 153.5's, Hornady 153's, Lapua 144's, Sierra 142 SMK's, Berger 140 Hybrids; have not tried the Berger 156's. The projectile I like best because the performance I've been able to get is the Berger 153.5's and the Sierra 142 SMK's. The powder that's worked best for me for all of these projectiles is the N-565.

For example out of my 26" Krieger barrel:

I was out a little over a week ago with the Berger 153.5 pushed by 57.5 grs N-565 with a COAL ~3.098" using Fed-210 primer Lapua brass. Average MV ran at 2981 fps with ambient temperature at 89°F and groups were in the .3's.

The 142 SMK's I run 56.5 grs of N565 with a CAOL ~2.955 using Fed-210 primers in Peterson Brass. Average MV is at 2950 FPS with ambient temps between 70° and 86°F and getting groups in the .3's or better.

The only powder I've used with the Lapua 144's was MagPro and didn't find a load that produced consistent good results. Though 60.6 grs MagPro with a COAL ~2.343 did ok producing ~.5 MOA with MV's 3060 fps using CCI-250's in Peterson brass.

Note that my loads tend to be with long COAL's and on the hot side. I haven't found a need or a good reason to use magnum primers in my 6.5 PRC cartridges; maybe would if I were using them in very cold temperatures.

So . . . how did you're ladder test go? You didn't say what your COAL was with those powder charges and 56.6 grs H-1000 appears to be a compressed load if you're COAL is at 2.955", though pressure should still be ok????

 

[H&H Precision Outdoors]

The powders that's I've tried so far is MagPro, RL-23, Retumbo, N-565 and now H-4831SC. Projectiles I've used are the Berger 153.5's, Hornady 153's, Lapua 144's, Sierra 142 SMK's, Berger 140 Hybrids; have not tried the Berger 156's. The projectile I like best because the performance I've been able to get is the Berger 153.5's and the Sierra 142 SMK's. The powder that's worked best for me for all of these projectiles is the N-565.

For example out of my 26" Krieger barrel:

I was out a little over a week ago with the Berger 153.5 pushed by 57.5 grs N-565 with a COAL ~3.098" using Fed-210 primer Lapua brass. Average MV ran at 2981 fps with ambient temperature at 89°F and groups were in the .3's.

The 142 SMK's I run 56.5 grs of N565 with a CAOL ~2.955 using Fed-210 primers in Peterson Brass. Average MV is at 2950 FPS with ambient temps between 70° and 86°F and getting groups in the .3's or better.

The only powder I've used with the Lapua 144's was MagPro and didn't find a load that produced consistent good results. Though 60.6 grs MagPro with a COAL ~2.343 did ok producing ~.5 MOA with MV's 3060 fps using CCI-250's in Peterson brass.

Note that my loads tend to be with long COAL's and on the hot side. I haven't found a need or a good reason to use magnum primers in my 6.5 PRC cartridges; maybe would if I were using them in very cold temperatures.

So . . . how did you're ladder test go? You didn't say what your COAL was with those powder charges and 56.6 grs H-1000 appears to be a compressed load if you're COAL is at 2.955", though pressure should still be ok????

Ladder test was bad until I got to 56.5g of H1000.
My COAL with the Berger 156g EOL was 2.950.
I had zero pressure signs, and managed to shoot a 1.0” group at 100 yards once I hit 56.5g of H1000. Do you think I should give 57g, & 57.5g of H1000 a try?

 

[oldnewguy]

I've got data from Berger, if you'd like it

 

[H&H Precision Outdoors]

I've got data from Berger, if you'd like it

Send it over, I’d like to compare apples to apples and see what kind of results people are getting shooting in different altitudes, & temperature.

 

[oldnewguy]

 

[oldnewguy]

 

[straightshooter1]

Ladder test was bad until I got to 56.5g of H1000.
My COAL with the Berger 156g EOL was 2.950.
I had zero pressure signs, and managed to shoot a 1.0” group at 100 yards once I hit 56.5g of H1000. Do you think I should give 57g, & 57.5g of H1000 a try?

As long as I'm not seeing pressure signs, I'd keep going . . . if for no other reason than as a pressure test to see where the limit is.

Here's a guestament I put together to give you some kind of idea what your dealing with:

 

[H&H Precision Outdoors]

@straightshooter1
@oldnewguy

This information helps a ton, I appreciate it fellas!

 

[Overclok79]

I just started loading 6.5 PRC for long-range target work. Usually I don't push speed, but for shooting at a mile plus I'll take as much as I can safely get.

Specs:
28” bartlien barrel
153.5gr Berger Hybrid
H1000
CCI BR2
Virgin ADG brass

It was cold. About 42*F. But I just got the barrel back from the smith and wanted to try it out. I recorded all the rounds I shot that day with my magnetospeed. I'm a bit disappointed in the speeds I got. I had to go way over the book max in order to exceed 2900 fps. However, I see no signs of the pressure on this brass. Even though H1000 is considered to be temp stable, I'll be sure to run this test again when the weather is a bit warmer.

Top cartridge is the 57.4 gr charge. That’s the max book load. Then charge weights increase going down to 59.0 gr. I don’t see any primer cratering or ejector swipes and I didn’t have any heavy bolt lifts

This is the data I could find from Hornady for the 6.5 PRC and 153 gr bullet. Am I insane for going 1.5 grs over book max when I see zero pressure signs?

 

[straightshooter1]

I just started loading 6.5 PRC for long-range target work. Usually I don't push speed, but for shooting at a mile plus I'll take as much as I can safely get.

Specs:
28” bartlien barrel
153.5gr Berger Hybrid
H1000
CCI BR2
Virgin ADG brass

It was cold. About 42*F. But I just got the barrel back from the smith and wanted to try it out. I recorded all the rounds I shot that day with my magnetospeed. I'm a bit disappointed in the speeds I got. I had to go way over the book max in order to exceed 2900 fps. However, I see no signs of the pressure on this brass. Even though H1000 is considered to be temp stable, I'll be sure to run this test again when the weather is a bit warmer.

View attachment 8308884

Top cartridge is the 57.4 gr charge. That’s the max book load. Then charge weights increase going down to 59.0 gr. I don’t see any primer cratering or ejector swipes and I didn’t have any heavy bolt lifts

View attachment 8308885

This is the data I could find from Hornady for the 6.5 PRC and 153 gr bullet. Am I insane for going 1.5 grs over book max when I see zero pressure signs?

View attachment 8308890

I've fired the Berger 153.5 Hybrids out of my 26" barrel and they've done very well, but I haven't use H1000 as I can't get the velocity I was after.

To start with, H1000 really fills up the cases fast, which limits how much you can get into a 6.5 PRC case. Add that along with the brass you're using that has less case capacity that most others, it's really restricting what you can do. 59 grs of H-1000 is filling the case to around 103%, depending on what the particular volume is for your brass. And if you can put a little more in somehow, you might be able to squeeze a few more FPS without pressure signs, but that's really pushing case capacity (depending on how long you're loading them). You might be able to do a little better using a magnum primer instead of the BR-2's, especially in those cooler temperatures.

For these 153.5's I've tried Rl-23, Retumbo, N565 and H4831SC. They all did pretty decent, though I wasn't happy with the RL-23 and haven't used enough of the H4831SC to find a satisfactory load. I liked Retumbo and N565 the best with good groups and MV's at 2980 fps (ambient temp in the mid 80's) where I'm loading them with a COAL of 3.098.

 

[HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur]

I've fired the Berger 153.5 Hybrids out of my 26" barrel and they've done very well, but I haven't use H1000 as I can't get the velocity I was after.

To start with, H1000 really fills up the cases fast, which limits how much you can get into a 6.5 PRC case. Add that along with the brass you're using that has less case capacity that most others, it's really restricting what you can do. 59 grs of H-1000 is filling the case to around 103%, depending on what the particular volume is for your brass. And if you can put a little more in somehow, you might be able to squeeze a few more FPS without pressure signs, but that's really pushing case capacity (depending on how long you're loading them). You might be able to do a little better using a magnum primer instead of the BR-2's, especially in those cooler temperatures.

For these 153.5's I've tried Rl-23, Retumbo, N565 and H4831SC. They all did pretty decent, though I wasn't happy with the RL-23 and haven't used enough of the H4831SC to find a satisfactory load. I liked Retumbo and N565 the best with good groups and MV's at 2980 fps (ambient temp in the mid 80's) where I'm loading them with a COAL of 3.098.

This is probably a dumb question but you’re loading 3.098 on a saami chamber?

I ask because I’m considering buying the unknown munitions bottom metal which would allow me to use the full length of my actions port.

 

[Overclok79]

I've fired the Berger 153.5 Hybrids out of my 26" barrel and they've done very well, but I haven't use H1000 as I can't get the velocity I was after.

To start with, H1000 really fills up the cases fast, which limits how much you can get into a 6.5 PRC case. Add that along with the brass you're using that has less case capacity that most others, it's really restricting what you can do. 59 grs of H-1000 is filling the case to around 103%, depending on what the particular volume is for your brass. And if you can put a little more in somehow, you might be able to squeeze a few more FPS without pressure signs, but that's really pushing case capacity (depending on how long you're loading them). You might be able to do a little better using a magnum primer instead of the BR-2's, especially in those cooler temperatures.

For these 153.5's I've tried Rl-23, Retumbo, N565 and H4831SC. They all did pretty decent, though I wasn't happy with the RL-23 and haven't used enough of the H4831SC to find a satisfactory load. I liked Retumbo and N565 the best with good groups and MV's at 2980 fps (ambient temp in the mid 80's) where I'm loading them with a COAL of 3.098.

Good to know. I am trying to fit within mag length, so I am limited to a 2.955" COAL. The rounds I tested were loaded at a 2.900" COAL. I picked that length arbitrarily and my next batch of ammo will be max length for the magazine.

I also lack experience with compressed loads. There was a bit of crunching when loading the higher charge weights, but I loaded the ammo the night before I shot it and I measured it again before leaving for the range. It didn't it push the bullet out any farther. The virgin brass was opened up with a mandrel to set the neck tension to .002". This is the neck tension I plan to stick with.

From the research I've done, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with compressed loads as long as you aren't seeing pressure signs? In fact, some people are claiming compressed loads to be more consistent and accurate. N565 was my original powder choice. However, I was struggling to find it and settled on H1000. If you don't mind me asking, how much N565 or Retumbo did you needs to achieve those speeds? Nvm, I see you posted your data above! My goal was to exceed 3000 fps. I can live with 2900 if its accurate and consistent. If I'm below 2800 then I would be upset.

I am not worried about ignition in the cooler temps. When I used this rifle for competition (Nightforce ELR) it will be much warmer weather. Its about to sit in the safe for the next 2-3 months until the good shooting weather returns.

 

[straightshooter1]

This is probably a dumb question but you’re loading 3.098 on a saami chamber?

I ask because I’m considering buying the unknown munitions bottom metal which would allow me to use the full length of my actions port.

Attached pdf file has the SAAMI specs for 6.5 PRC. Those specs don't prohibit barrel manufacturers from producing longer freebores in their barrels so there more room to make adjustments for longer bullets. And keep in mind that it's CBTO that's more of a limiting factor than COAL. My 3.098" was putting my CBTO exactly .020 off my lands where my CBTO's were 2.387". If you add those two numbers you get 2.407, which is right at that number you see at the very bottom for the SAAMI chamber dimensions. So, yes . . . I'd say it's a "SAAMI chamber" that Preferred Barrel Blanks produced for me.

 

[HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur]

Attached pdf file has the SAAMI specs for 6.5 PRC. Those specs don't prohibit barrel manufacturers from producing longer freebores in their barrels so there more room to make adjustments for longer bullets. And keep in mind that it's CBTO that's more of a limiting factor than COAL. My 3.098" was putting my CBTO exactly .020 off my lands where my CBTO's were 2.387". If you add those two numbers you get 2.407, which is right at that number you see at the very bottom for the SAAMI chamber dimensions. So, yes . . . I'd say it's a "SAAMI chamber" that Preferred Barrel Blanks produced for me.

Thanks for the info.

I’m new to reloading and just got my rifle a few weeks ago. I’ve loaded up a ladder but just used my magazine length as my COAL guide and haven’t measured to my lands yet.

 

[straightshooter1]

Good to know. I am trying to fit within mag length, so I am limited to a 2.955" COAL. The rounds I tested were loaded at a 2.900" COAL. I picked that length arbitrarily and my next batch of ammo will be max length for the magazine.

I also lack experience with compressed loads. There was a bit of crunching when loading the higher charge weights, but I loaded the ammo the night before I shot it and I measured it again before leaving for the range. It didn't it push the bullet out any farther. The virgin brass was opened up with a mandrel to set the neck tension to .002". This is the neck tension I plan to stick with.

No surprise that there was some crunching going on when loading 59gr of H-1000 as that's at ~107% of case capacity. Even at a COAL of 2.955, your still going to be compressing that load to some degree. The main thing with a compressed load it that it might take more neck tension to keep the bullet from moving forward during recoil, if not just on its own from the resistance of the powder being compressed. And very often a compressed load can results in higher than normal pressure spikes, especially in warm/hot weather. And this might be why you're seeing the kinds velocities you're seeing.

From the research I've done, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with compressed loads as long as you aren't seeing pressure signs? In fact, some people are claiming compressed loads to be more consistent and accurate. N565 was my original powder choice. However, I was struggling to find it and settled on H1000. If you don't mind me asking, how much N565 or Retumbo did you needs to achieve those speeds? Nvm, I see you posted your data above! My goal was to exceed 3000 fps. I can live with 2900 if its accurate and consistent. If I'm below 2800 then I would be upset.

I am not worried about ignition in the cooler temps. When I used this rifle for competition (Nightforce ELR) it will be much warmer weather. Its about to sit in the safe for the next 2-3 months until the good shooting weather returns.

True, there's nothing really wrong with compressed loads and simply look for pressure signs as one would otherwise. Just be aware that with a compressed load there can be larger increments in pressure from one load to another and more so in warmer weather.

I've come to really like N-565 as I get good velocity and accuracy seemed to come easy enough. I never pushed my 153.5's past 3000 fps, but with Hornady 153 A-Tips, this powder did great for me pushing them to 3,038 fps using 58.8 grains (that was~ 100.5% of my Lapua case capacity, where my case volume of 68.6 grs H2O tends to be substantially less than your brass).

 

[Schamsy33]

I just started loading 6.5 PRC for long-range target work. Usually I don't push speed, but for shooting at a mile plus I'll take as much as I can safely get.

Specs:
28” bartlien barrel
153.5gr Berger Hybrid
H1000
CCI BR2
Virgin ADG brass

It was cold. About 42*F. But I just got the barrel back from the smith and wanted to try it out. I recorded all the rounds I shot that day with my magnetospeed. I'm a bit disappointed in the speeds I got. I had to go way over the book max in order to exceed 2900 fps. However, I see no signs of the pressure on this brass. Even though H1000 is considered to be temp stable, I'll be sure to run this test again when the weather is a bit warmer.

View attachment 8308995

Top cartridge is the 57.4 gr charge. That’s the max book load. Then charge weights increase going down to 59.0 gr. I don’t see any primer cratering or ejector swipes and I didn’t have any heavy bolt lifts

View attachment 8308885

This is the data I could find from Hornady for the 6.5 PRC and 153 gr bullet. Am I insane for going 1.5 grs over book max when I see zero pressure signs?

View attachment 8308890

I am surprised to see those velocities that low. I am running 57.5gr H1000 in Lapua brass with 210M primers and the 153.5 Berger’s getting 3050 FPS in 26” barrel. H1000 is my go to in the case. Running 6 PRC, 25 PRC, and 6.5 PRC all with H1000.

 

[straightshooter1]

I am surprised to see those velocities that low. I am running 57.5gr H1000 in Lapua brass with 210M primers and the 153.5 Berger’s getting 3050 FPS in 26” barrel. H1000 is my go to in the case. Running 6 PRC, 25 PRC, and 6.5 PRC all with H1000.

On the other hand, your's surprises me and is pretty high from other's I've seen reported. What COAL are you using and what temperature were you shooting in for that velocity? Are you seating to touch or jam?

The only way it seems one can achieve such a velocity is if the powder has dried out some, increasing its burn rate. . .???

 

[Schamsy33]

Coal of 3.015” with shooting temps around 40*. Barrel has a few hundred rounds through it.

 

[straightshooter1]

Hmmm???

Coal of 3.015” with shooting temps around 40*. Barrel has a few hundred rounds through it.

Hmmm??? Yeah, after "a few hundred rounds" I'd expect some increase in velocity, but . . . 250 fps increase? I use QuickLoad to help evaluate what's going on and very often the default burn rate in the app has to be adjusted up to fit the real life data so that any changes (le.g. different bullet, change in size of charge, seating depth, temperatures for shooting) produces more accurate predictions. With your 57.5 grs of H-1000 I'm seeing the case fill for a COAL of 3.015 is at 100.9%, which is actually where I tend to like to see my own case fills. To get to your velocity, I really have to bump up that burn rate! Then it shows some really high pressure readings at that burn rate.

I'm not doubting your claim or trying to be critical, just trying to understand why such a difference. Here's what I'm looking at:

From your info. . .

And here's from the default burn rate. . .

 

[Overclok79]

If it’s not too much work, would you mind posting this data at 2.955” COAL with the 153.5 Berger, H1000, and 28” barrel? I appreciate you sharing your experience

 

[straightshooter1]

If it’s not too much work, would you mind posting this data at 2.955” COAL with the 153.5 Berger, H1000, and 28” barrel? I appreciate you sharing your experience

OK, but keep in mind this is only giving you kind of a ball park idea of what you're dealing with. The number aren't as good as I like as I don't have your actual velocities you recorded for the charge weights AND I used a case volume for ADG brass I've acquired that's very like different than what yours actually is (case volumes can vary from lot to lot for any manufacturer).

So, here you go (and Merry Christmas ):

 

[Overclok79]

OK, but keep in mind this is only giving you kind of a ball park idea of what you're dealing with. The number aren't as good as I like as I don't have your actual velocities you recorded for the charge weights AND I used a case volume for ADG brass I've acquired that's very like different than what yours actually is (case volumes can vary from lot to lot for any manufacturer).

So, here you go (and Merry Christmas ):
View attachment 8310156

Thank you! And a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Having this info as a reference will be nice. I understand that this is just an estimation and may not be 100% accurate. I am still going to do my due diligence.

That being said, those velocities line up pretty close to what I was seeing! Its reassuring that the software agrees with my lack of pressure signs. The barrel is young, so I expect it to gain a bit of speed. This is my first cut rifle barrel, but my button rifle barrels always took about 100 rounds to settle down. It will be useful to know approximately what fill % I am at. At some point I'll get around to measuring the volume of my ADG brass and I can calculate the actual fill percentages from there.

 

[HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur]

Just ran a ladder of 144s out of my 20” PRC using N565

*barrel had less than 100rd on it

56gr - 2757fps
56.3 - 2750
56.6 - 2779
56.9 - 2796
57.2 - 2818
57.5 - 2824

 

[H&H Precision Outdoors]

Just ran a ladder of 144s out of my 20” PRC using N565

*barrel had less than 100rd on it

56gr - 2757fps
56.3 - 2750
56.6 - 2779
56.9 - 2796
57.2 - 2818
57.5 - 2824

View attachment 8340320

Really good SD's! How did each of them group?

 

[HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur]

Really good SD's! How did each of them group?

To be honest, I’m new to reloading and was doing a ladder for some hammer bullets first and ran out of targets (poa) after a couple charges of the Bergers. This was the best group I shot out of the bergers that had a decent aiming point. Definitely not anything to brag about.

What I did find interesting was that the SD of the hammers was much higher but the groups were tiny. Although they were 3 shots compared to 5 of the bergers. And they were using RL26

 

[H&H Precision Outdoors]

To be honest, I’m new to reloading and was doing a ladder for some hammer bullets first and ran out of targets (poa) after a couple charges of the Bergers. This was the best group I shot out of the bergers that had a decent aiming point. Definitely not anything to brag about.

View attachment 8340448

What I did find interesting was that the SD of the hammers was much higher but the groups were tiny. Although they were 3 shots compared to 5 of the bergers

View attachment 8340449View attachment 8340450View attachment 8340451

52.8g's is looking good! I'd load up 9 rounds of 52.8g and confirm it to see if it shoots a hole like that consistently with those SD's.

 

[Overclok79]

Finally got in a range trip today. It was 61*F. Still cool, but better than the 40s. Today I compared 57.5gr vs. 59.0gr of H1000 with 153.5 bergers in virgin ADG brass with CCI BR2 primers. The brass was chamfered, neck lubed, and expanded with a .262" mandrel before loading. Rounds were seated to a CBTO of 2.246" +/-.001". This results in a COAL of 2.950"-2.960". I ran everything out of an AICS short action mag today and had zero feed issues.

First off, I measured the capacity of my brass. Once fired, unsized brass has a capacity of 68.7gr of H20.

These rounds were loaded about a month ago. Since they are compressed, I was worried the compressed powdered may push the bullet out with time. I checked the CBTO before I left for the range and everything was 2.246" +/-.001" as it should be.

I ran the same test with each charge weight before moving onto the next test. I have a temperature sticker on my barrel and I left it cool down to this point before each test.

The order of my tests:
- 1st test: 5 shot group. I shot slowly and inspected each piece of brass as I shot it.
- 2nd test: 5 shot string. I broke a shot every 10 seconds to simulate a match-like environment.
- 3rd test: 8 shot string. Same as before. 1 shot every 10 seconds.

First off. Holy shit. What even is the point of seating depth tests. These were my two 100 yard, 5 shot groups from the 1st test. 57.5 gr on the left. 59.0 gr on the right.

57.5gr averaged 2927 FPS over the day and 59.0 gr averaged 3002 FPS. This is out of a 28" barrel that after today, has 80 rounds on it. Both of these averages are at least 50 FPS faster than when I ran my velocity ladder a few months ago in 40* weather.

I saw no pressure signs on the brass. For the most part, the bolt lift always felt fine. This is very subjective, but the bolt lift may have got slightly stiff towards the end of that 8 round string with 59.0gr of powder. This is anecdotal evidence at best, but I will still probably play it safe and stick with 57.5gr of H1000. The barrel will probably speed up a bit more, and on a warm day, 2950 FPS will be sufficient. If that sticky bolt lift does become a problem, I don't want to risk it with the 59.0 gr charge. 50 extra FPS isn't worth having problems during a match.

Here's the velocity data. The SD and ES of each charge weight was a bit sporadic. I am hoping this improves with time. The barrel is young and I've had past barrels behave similarly. Also, with other cartridges, it seems like my velocity data got more consistent after the brass had 1x firing on it, but I have never collected data on this. 57.5gr had an SD of 14 and ES of 47 for the day and 59.0gr had an SD of 10 and ES of 38 for the day These are close enough in my opinion to be treated as the same.

And here is the fired brass. This all looks fine to me:

 

[H&H Precision Outdoors]

Finally got in a range trip today. It was 61*F. Still cool, but better than the 40s. Today I compared 57.5gr vs. 59.0gr of H1000 with 153.5 bergers in virgin ADG brass with CCI BR2 primers. The brass was chamfered, neck lubed, and expanded with a .262" mandrel before loading. Rounds were seated to a CBTO of 2.246" +/-.001". This results in a COAL of 2.950"-2.960". I ran everything out of an AICS short action mag today and had zero feed issues.

First off, I measured the capacity of my brass. Once fired, unsized brass has a capacity of 68.7gr of H20.
View attachment 8355041

These rounds were loaded about a month ago. Since they are compressed, I was worried the compressed powdered may push the bullet out with time. I checked the CBTO before I left for the range and everything was 2.246" +/-.001" as it should be.

I ran the same test with each charge weight before moving onto the next test. I have a temperature sticker on my barrel and I left it cool down to this point before each test.
View attachment 8355031

The order of my tests:
- 1st test: 5 shot group. I shot slowly and inspected each piece of brass as I shot it.
- 2nd test: 5 shot string. I broke a shot every 10 seconds to simulate a match-like environment.
- 3rd test: 8 shot string. Same as before. 1 shot every 10 seconds.

First off. Holy shit. What even is the point of seating depth tests. These were my two 100 yard, 5 shot groups from the 1st test. 57.5 gr on the left. 59.0 gr on the right.
View attachment 8355036

57.5gr averaged 2927 FPS over the day and 59.0 gr averaged 3002 FPS. This is out of a 28" barrel that after today, has 80 rounds on it. Both of these averages are at least 50 FPS faster than when I ran my velocity ladder a few months ago in 40* weather.

I saw no pressure signs on the brass. For the most part, the bolt lift always felt fine. This is very subjective, but the bolt lift may have got slightly stiff towards the end of that 8 round string with 59.0gr of powder. This is anecdotal evidence at best, but I will still probably play it safe and stick with 57.5gr of H1000. The barrel will probably speed up a bit more, and on a warm day, 2950 FPS will be sufficient. If that sticky bolt lift does become a problem, I don't want to risk it with the 59.0 gr charge. 50 extra FPS isn't worth having problems during a match.

Here's the velocity data. The SD and ES of each charge weight was a bit sporadic. I am hoping this improves with time. The barrel is young and I've had past barrels behave similarly. Also, with other cartridges, it seems like my velocity data got more consistent after the brass had 1x firing on it, but I have never collected data on this. 57.5gr had an SD of 14 and ES of 47 for the day and 59.0gr had an SD of 10 and ES of 38 for the day These are close enough in my opinion to be treated as the same.
View attachment 8355049

And here is the fired brass. This all looks fine to me:
View attachment 8355052

Excellent man! I'm itching to load for my new 6.5 PRC using the same 153.5g projectile, but Lapua Brass instead of ADG. 2.950 COAL is what I'll be using as well. Nice shooting @Overclok79 and solid groups out of your rig.

 

[Bmghunter]

This is my ladder test for RL26 with Berger 153.5 in a 26 inch barrel 1:7 twist. No pressure but my QL trued ba for this cartridge puts the 56.5 near max pressure.

 

[Bmghunter]

This is the MAGPRO ladder to 57.5.
QL trued up ba shows I can go up to 60.0 grains before near max pressure.

 

[Bmghunter]

Vihtavuori n568 ladder to 57.5.
QL says I cannot fit enough into the case to over pressure. Says I can get over 3000fps before max pressure.

 

[Bmghunter]

This one is RL16 from 48 to 52.5. slight heavy bolt lift at 52.5. QL says this is max pressure load already. I would back it down to 52.0.

 

[Bmghunter]

Lastly I tried h4350 from 45.5 to 50.0. also slightly heavy bolt lift at 50.0 and QL says it's at max pressure.
All of these QL max pressures are calculated after trueing up the ba to my velocities.

 

[Bmghunter]

Also forgot to mention, the brass is Lapua 6.5 prc brand new, and all ladders are in .5grain increments. Brass prep only consisted of putting an expander ball through the neck to round it. Primers are CCI LRM. Temperature was in the high 60s to low 70s. No pressure markings on any brass and only the two heavy bolt lifts (very slight).
Barrel is brand new and essentially the ladder started after 13 factory rounds as foulers.
QL truing uses a 68grain case capacity as opposed to the default 65ish. Quickload Ba for each powder was adjusted to get velocities matching the actual velocities to calculate where max pressure will be.
The loads near max pressure shows the barrel time to match an OBT node.

 

[Bmghunter]

In comparison these are the factory round foulers. Many of these factory rounds had heavy bolt lift.
Nosler 140 and Hornady 130 cx.

Hornady 147 eldm

 

[straightshooter1]

This is the MAGPRO ladder to 57.5.
QL trued up ba shows I can go up to 60.0 grains before near max pressure.
View attachment 8361525

Though I haven't used MagPro for my 153.5's, using my "trued up BA" for 140 SMK's that I've used MagPro on, looks like my lot of MagPro might go up to just over 61 grs (at the COAL that I'm seating my 153.5's, anyway).

Such ladders are good for pressure testing, and that about it. So, I'm wondering, is that what you're doing?

 

[Bmghunter]

Though I haven't used MagPro for my 153.5's, using my "trued up BA" for 140 SMK's that I've used MagPro on, looks like my lot of MagPro might go up to just over 61 grs (at the COAL that I'm seating my 153.5's, anyway).

Such ladders are good for pressure testing, and that about it. So, I'm wondering, is that what you're doing?

View attachment 8361557

Yes I am pressure testing and getting a gauge on what velocities I will get.
Also forgot to mention coal, I'm using 2.955.
My MAGPRO trued ba is .3100
My 60.0 grain estimate is for 60k psi not 65k. Gives wiggle room for hot days since MAGPRO is temp sensitive.

 

[HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur]

I bought a box of 156gr to try out and ran a couple ladders. The ladder with h1000 showed pressure (heavy bolt lift) so I stopped at 56.7gr with a MV of 2825.

The ladder with rl26 found a winner that I’ll be experimenting more with. 54.5gr for MV of 2854.

These have a COAL ~3.02 so I ordered the unknown munitions bottom metal and mag to replace my Hawkins but currently having issues getting it to fit properly.

Edit: 20” Bartlein gain twist barrel

 

[H&H Precision Outdoors]

I bought a box of 156gr to try out and ran a couple ladders. The ladder with h1000 showed pressure (heavy bolt lift) so I stopped at 56.7gr with a MV of 2825.

The ladder with rl26 found a winner that I’ll be experimenting more with. 54.5gr for MV of 2854.

These have a COAL ~3.02 so I ordered the unknown munitions bottom metal and mag to replace my Hawkins but currently having issues getting it to fit properly.

Edit: 20” Bartlein gain twist barrel

I've been real curious about the (Gain Twist) barrels. How are you liking it?

Also, not bad speeds with RL26. I plan to try N568, & N570 with my 156g EOL once the weather is warmer.

Not sure about your bottom metal, but was your stock cut for the UM bottom metal?

 

[HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur]

I've been real curious about the (Gain Twist) barrels. How are you liking it?

Also, not bad speeds with RL26. I plan to try N568, & N570 with my 156g EOL once the weather is warmer.

Not sure about your bottom metal, but was your stock cut for the UM bottom metal?

I have no complaints about the GT barrel but I also couldn’t tell you if it’s better, worse or the same as non-GT. I just wanted to try one out.

I got up to 2912 fps with 55.7gr of RL26 but I’m hoping to get a little more barrel life with less powder.

UM bottom metal is a M5 pattern but I did have to open up the stock load port a bit with a dremel. Trouble I’m having is the magazine seems to be hitting the back of the action. May end up taking it to a smith.

 

[264win]

With the 156 a lot of guys are having great results with 54-55 gr of rl 26.

 

[H&H Precision Outdoors]

I have no complaints about the GT barrel but I also couldn’t tell you if it’s better, worse or the same as non-GT. I just wanted to try one out.

I got up to 2912 fps with 55.7gr of RL26 but I’m hoping to get a little more barrel life with less powder.

UM bottom metal is a M5 pattern but I did have to open up the stock load port a bit with a dremel. Trouble I’m having is the magazine seems to be hitting the back of the action. May end up taking it to a smith.

View attachment 8386101

Great to hear @HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur I would definitely advise taking the rifle to a smith, your stock looks very high end, & would hate to see something get compromised. I'll let you all know how N568 / N570 work with the 156g EOL's. I'm currently running a 26" Bartlein with a APA Gen III Little Bastard brake on my rig. Put some white box eldm by Hornday through it and was shock how well the barrel was doing.

 

[R_A_W]

153.5 LRHT
H1000
210M
Lapua 4PH6023 unfired, 68.8gr H2O, graphite, mandrel to 0.002 interference
~2.965 COAL for ~0.090 jump in a 0.163fb (I'll have to check this again)
25" CFW 1:8.25-7.5" left hand gain twist, 25rds on barrel @ start

55.65gr 2780fps
56.37gr 2850fps
57.74gr 2920fps

5 shot group SDs all 8-9fps.

I still had about 10% that felt much more difficult to seat & initially seated .020 longer. Primers all fine, no wipes. No compressed loads, although the 57.74 is very close. Hoping to retest @ 2.950 COAL this weekend.

Is double seating a thing for loads that are close to compressed? E.g. seat 0.050 or 0.075 longer than intended, shake the round to redistribute powder around the boat tail prior second seating, then reseat to final depth.

 

[H&H Precision Outdoors]

153.5 LRHT
H1000
210M
Lapua 4PH6023 unfired, 68.8gr H2O, graphite, mandrel to 0.002 interference
2.965 COAL for ~0.120 jump in a 0.163fb

55.65gr 2780fps
56.37gr 2850fps
57.74gr 2920fps

5 shot group SDs all 8-9fps.

I still had about 10% that felt much more difficult to seat & initially seated .020 longer. Primers all fine, no wipes. No compressed loads, although the 57.74 is very close. Hoping to retest @ 2.950 COAL this weekend.

Is double seating a thing for loads that are close to compressed? E.g. seat 0.050 or 0.075 longer than intended, shake the round to redistribute powder around the boat tail prior second seating, then reseat to final depth.

I plan to run mine at 2.955 COAL when I begin loading for my 6.5 PRC, just waiting for the temperatures to warm up. @straightshooter1 you might agree, but @R_A_W It's better to have a compress load vs a non-compressed due to how the powder lies in the case when it's not compress. Rounds that are loaded up non-compress tend to have inconsistency due to powder not being equally distributed once the round is chambered and ready to fire. This can lean to insufficient burning of the powder once the primer ignites, and the round is fired.

Also, @R_A_W I plan to use the follow powders, and components:

Berger 144 LRHT - N565 - fill ratio 103%
Berger 156 EOL - N570 - fill ratio 106%

Notice that the powders based on the projectile I'll be using have fill ratios of 100% or +100%

 

[R_A_W]

I should add a couple of things to my post above...

65*F 70% 900'elev

The 153.5 LRHT has enough nose length variance that 2.965 COAL will result in a few rounds that completely impede reliable feeding in my short action Accurate Mag. They all fit, but those few will bind if they tip once they've slid forward. Hopefully 2.950 COAL feeds reliably.

@H&H Precision Outdoors all of these loads are >95% fill, so I'm not worried about burn efficiency. If I feel like I'm having issues, I'll switch to 215M. I'll have to look at my GRT file to see where the actual fill % is though

Is double seating a thing for loads that are close to compressed? E.g. seat 0.050 or 0.075 longer than intended, shake the round to redistribute powder around the boat tail prior second seating, then reseat to final depth.

@Rocketmandb @Rio Precision Gunworks maybe you guys know about this