Bergers are NG??
- Thread starter DavidK
- Start date
You can get a lot of experience with a lot of different bullets. Some barrels like some bullets, some don't like others. Maybe he had some bad luck once.
Generally speaking Bergers have an exceptional reputation and are a go-to for accuracy. Most common bullet in F-Class (7mms), extremely popular in PRS (105 hybrids), if you look at non-custom bullets in Benchrest they are also the top, etc etc. They've also been the most consistent for me barrel after barrel.
A blanket statement like that from a "reloading instructor" would make me question his credibility or experience.
Please tell him this:
“At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
“At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
I dont throw away bullets just because they won't preform in that brass with that powder in that barrel.
All of a sudden they are golden in something else or to someone else.
All of a sudden they are golden in something else or to someone else.
Lol. Thanks to all for restoring my faith in Berger
He really trashed them when I showed up with 140gn hybrid 6.5 CMs
Wow that's a dumb ass comment from a "instructor"
I wouldn't have listened to his reloading advise from that point on and
would have gotten a refund. Bergers have an excellent reputation.
Sierra's are just as good. Both have their place and some rifles or combinations of components work
a little better together. Also if you don't work to find a load you'll think that bullet is no good.
Like saying H4350 causes flyers and RL16 doesn't. What a dick.
I'm betting he's not that good of a reloader.
I wouldn't have listened to his reloading advise from that point on and
would have gotten a refund. Bergers have an excellent reputation.
Sierra's are just as good. Both have their place and some rifles or combinations of components work
a little better together. Also if you don't work to find a load you'll think that bullet is no good.
Like saying H4350 causes flyers and RL16 doesn't. What a dick.
I'm betting he's not that good of a reloader.
NOTICE: Flyers spotted. Halt all purchases of Berger projectiles. Sierra will instantaneously fix all issues!
As been pointed out, Berger bullets are a fine product. . . . top shelf on any knowledgeable reloader's shelf. But. . . they can be a bit of a challenge for a new reloader to find the sweet spot, mostly (it seems) due to they tend towards not being so jump tolerant. SMK's on the other hand tend to be a little easier to load to and tend to be jump tolerant. Note that a lot of shooters/reloaders have had really good results with the Hornady 140 gr ELDs.
As with any reloading, it takes some experimenting and testing to see just what works best in your particular gun and/or barrel.
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You would think though that of all people an instructor teaching a class would explain this along with the differences/strengths/weaknesses between tangent, secant, hybrid ogives along with other traits...
I can confirm he's a fuckin idiot, and continuing to go to his classes will make you the same.
Seek instruction elsewhere bro
Yup, I’d leave. No point in learning from a closed minded person. Bergers are great. Best bullets I’ve ever used.
I’ve been burned by Sierra more than once. Jacket separation being what I think is the cause on both 142smk and 110smk. The 110’s wouldn’t even print on a 2’x4’ board out of a rifle that just shot foulers (105 hybrids in a 1/2” group). I’ll never buy them again. Now Berger has never burned me. That “instructor” is just pissy they cost a few bucks more!
Berger's are my go-to bullets.
I use them in 6mm (105 hybrids), 6.5mm (140 hybrids) and .30 Cal (230 hybrids).
They all shoot great. Have used them in multiple barrel brands with success. From my experience, the hybrids like to be jumped in a range of 5 thou to 20 thou off the lands.
I use them in 6mm (105 hybrids), 6.5mm (140 hybrids) and .30 Cal (230 hybrids).
They all shoot great. Have used them in multiple barrel brands with success. From my experience, the hybrids like to be jumped in a range of 5 thou to 20 thou off the lands.
Yeah, Berger's are shit. That's why they dominate the line at any F-class tournament... 
He actually sounds to me to be quite business smart and up on the current state of things. With the joining of Lapua, Vitivourhi and Berger, you can now pick up factory loaded ammo like the exact ammo you were using, at a price that renders reloading pretty much unnecessary.
He has to say that...if he told the truth, no one would ever take his class again.
He has to say that...if he told the truth, no one would ever take his class again.
Berger bullets are complete shit
Which is why I set up a Berger Bullet Disposal Center, you can pm me for the address....
Berger and Sierra both work very well. In my experience when bullet sorting the Berger have been more consistent. After sorting both work very well on target. The 1,000 yard fclass lines where we shoot are dominated by Berger bullet users.
Which is why I set up a Berger Bullet Disposal Center, you can pm me for the address....
Berger and Sierra both work very well. In my experience when bullet sorting the Berger have been more consistent. After sorting both work very well on target. The 1,000 yard fclass lines where we shoot are dominated by Berger bullet users.
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The guys at my club that routinely win or place in our 600-yard matches are big fans of Berger. These are guys that are shooting 295 or better out of 300 on a 600-yard F-class target, so basically holding 1/2 MOA at 600 for 30 shots.
Up until this barrel I had been using the 140 Hybrid exclusively. For whatever reason they did not work in this barrel. They were leaving a lot of copper (same lot as previous barrel). I switched to the 140 ELDM and got good results out of that bullet. Will try the Bergers again on the next barrel.
He would have to know this in order to explain it. There are an awful lot of people “teaching” long range shooting these days that have no idea what they are doing. Those type are convinced that as long as they can BS their way through a class, then they are teaching. It’s getting tiresome to have to deal with the misinformed students of these charlatans.
I know a certain instructor that goes by a moniker similar to a dinosaur name that fits this description perfectly...
But yes, lots of people with little to no clue trying to cash in on the sport. I tend to stick to the big names only for my training, or at the very least people with solid credentials and shooting background.
Just remember this from Forest Gump' "Stupid is as stupid does". That appear to be that instructor.
The only negative I can think about Berger bullets is their cost.
I’ve always found their consistency at distance top notch.
I've always been a SMK fan but they’re not very cheap either and while accuracy is awesome often BC is lacking so I’m not buying many of them anymore.
mostly 69smk’s for my AR.
I’ve always found their consistency at distance top notch.
I've always been a SMK fan but they’re not very cheap either and while accuracy is awesome often BC is lacking so I’m not buying many of them anymore.
mostly 69smk’s for my AR.
what about when you can't get them anywhere near the lands?
338 lapua
ruger rpr
when I seated a bullet against the lands to get the maximum coal, the bullet was barely into the neck of the cartridge. The tip and boat tail are so long, there is no way to get even close. We will see how well they shoot set to mag length.
I’d say the range is often considerably wider from my experience with 140 hybrids.
My original shilen Shilen 260 barrel loved them with over a tenth of an inch jump.
My current barrel jumps then even more with good results.
You very well could be right. That's just what I've found to be the proverbial "sweet spot" for the hybrids in my experience, but I wouldn't doubt that they shoot well outside of those parameters.
Have fliers on my 338 lm. Using Berger hybrid 300 gr. Also, thought of trying smk's. Only have about 360 rds on setup. But definitely fliers. I can concur. But, not saying Berger's are garbage. Just interesting that this came up.
Let me guess.
He also happens to have boxes of Sierra's to sell to get everyone started?
He also happens to have boxes of Sierra's to sell to get everyone started?
I got shit on by a huge order of recent Hornady blems (which I have had good luck with in the past). Ogvies “.010 in both directions, 7g weight differences, tips with bubbles... had to sort them - not big on bullet sorting myself either. The rejects will get donated to the “don’t care it goes bang” blaster pile.
140g ELD-M's. Bought 500. Probably be able to load 85 percent of them to accurate specs. I have feeling it was a misprint or something got screwed up in the packaging process. Blems are typically just that, not defects! I have "factory new" 140's and 147's that are just fine and shoot great.
I'm really liking the 225g ELD-M for 300NM. Shocking accurate at 3005 FPS out to 1760 yards (furthest I have stretched it). Advertised BC seems to be holding up well with very, very little truing required.
That’s a bummer.
I bought a bunch of the blem 147’s and 285’s and have been really happy with them.
Agreed. I've shot a bunch of Hornady blems in the past in .223 and 9mm. Blemishes included discolored jackets, cannelure in an odd location, and non-catalog item. Weight and shape always came out OK.
It's a safety issue if a bullet 7 grains heavier is in the lot.
True. Rare to find heavy ones. Mostly under from 3g to 7g. Still hate sorting them!
If an "instructor" makes public unsupported defamatory claims about a well respected manufacturer, why not name that instructor? Why would he deserve more deference than he showed Berger?
Damn ! That is one hell of a spread. Been my experience with SMK and the Nosler equivalent that they range up to +/- .2 grain, and that is on the tails of the bell shaped curve.
OFG
Yep, it is very extreme. Luckily all of them have an identical diameter of exactly .264. I do still check them just because there is some trash mixed in.
A thou or two over the expected diameter would be a bad day moreso than anything else. I honestly think I received a mixture of rejects and blems in my order.
