Hunting & Fishing Bergers on elk

[idahowitzer]

Folks-

I cannot even imagine where I'd be with my shooting without this forum. I have gained so much knowledge and finally put it to the test on a friend's cow hunt here in Idaho.

We moved in on a herd and were watching them from 400 yards for a good half hour before deciding to take the shot. My friend had a plain-jane hunting rifle and wasn't comfortable taking the shot at that range with his rifle (good choice).

I dialed in my .308 for the range of the clearing that we expected them to move to (360 yards) and we waited 'till the bull pushed his cows into it. When my buddy shot I spotted a good hit and watched as she rolled over and all four legs went straight up.

What I saw next blew my mind. The cow turned over, got up on her legs and started to move, albeit not very fast, she was still standing and trying to get away. My buddy did the right thing, and put another one in her and she was DRT. Good, but not perfect.

We gave her 168 grains of Berger VLDs and it did the trick, but not to my liking. I knew it was common for no exit but upon examining the results I was very disappointed. It appeared that the first bullet had exploded in the first inch and did good damage on the lung on impact side, but the heart had two or three pieces of shrapnel in it and the other lung was completely intact.

From my experience with partitions there would be a good thick hole that traveled through lung, heart, lung and a messy hole on the outside. She would probably have taken a half step and collapsed on the first shot.

Anyone else have the same experience with Bergers? I think they'll work great on deer, but I'd be hesitant to use them on a 700 pound bull-elk.

-Phil

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Bergers on elk

I'm glad you posted this. I was thinking of getting some 270 Bergers for Elk hunting with my 270 Win.

I think I'll study up a bit on it first.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Bergers on elk

Got any pics of the damage? I always wonder how a bullet gets an inch deep, then explodes. Once inside the rib cage there's nothing to stop all that energy that got through the skin and muscle and ribs.

I didn't kill an elk with a Berger, but I did kill one with a Sierra varmint bullet. At least that's what most people call it. Out of my .257 Roberts no less. I can tell you out of a bigger gun, such as my .270 Winchester, I would have no qualms whatsoever about shooting an elk using a Berger bullet.

Partitions are great if that's how you want to kill big game. But, they are not necessary.

 

[Mikiedem]

Re: Bergers on elk

Glad to find this post. Last Saturday I shot a large 6 point bull with 185gr berger's out of my 300 RUM at 426 yards. First shot hit just behind the shoulder and bull dropped, then stood back up and took a few steps. Placed another round in the same area and bull dropped again. Then it stood again, chambered the 3rd round and just about to let it fly and bull dropped. After inspection of entrance and damage to the bull, looks as if first bullet barely penetrated the hide and then exploded breaking a rib. Second round entered 2" higher and went in and hit the vitals killing the bull. Needless to say, not that happy with the results. Have been looking into the swift scirocco bullets, from what I have read seems like a good solution to the problem at hand.

 

[chain]

Re: Bergers on elk

Two years ago in the Bridger Wilderness on the last day of my hunt, I had a shot opportunity at 411 yds, Temp was about 0, shot was uphill. I was shooting my 300 win w/ 210 Bergers, 76 gr of H-1000.They were about 2900 fps. Bullet entered bull on left side 1/2 way up, nicked a rib and exited far side. Exit hole was about the size of a golf ball, but alot of lung tissue and blood was drug thru that hole. I saw him take a step in the scope with his head down and he slid out of sight some 30 yds down the mountain.DRT. I also noticed less wind drift with the Bergers than the Accubonds or Partitions. I love them, elk hate them.

 

[snaglytooth]

Re: Bergers on elk

Well, I am a bit of a Berger fan. Last year I killed my bull at 350 yards with a 210 grain VLD out of my 300 Win mag. He didnt even take a step DRT.The bullet didn't exit but it did do some serious damage.
Fast forward to just yesterday. I killed this years bull with yet another Berger of another flavor! 338cal 300 grain Tactical OTM out of my Snipetac at 1084 yards. I only wish I could have watched the impact, but when I got back on target all I could see was red sprayed all over the mountain, and my bull lying right were he was hit. A perfect hit right in the boiler room, and yes it left a nice 5' exit.

 

[VaFarmer1]

Re: Bergers on elk

Until this post all I've heard were great things about berger bullets
Accuracy doesn't seem to be a problem.
I hope people keep posting good and bad so we can get a better feel for how they handle larger game. I have been stocking up on them a little.Interested to see where this thread will go.

I don't think snaglytooth's bulls would argue with their performance.

 

[snaglytooth]

Re: Bergers on elk

I forgot to say..... That with any bullet it is only effective if YOU can place it were it needs to be efficiently. I have shot a lot of game, and never used a hunting type bullet. I have always used match bullets that I use everyday on the range punching paper and iron, but I can put them right were I want them.

One thing... I did however hit a bedded deer at 550 yards with a 750 grain amax out of a BMG, and I am here to tell you with nothing but Goo for an operating system that thing stood up and ran 50 yards. I'll never understand that one

 

[Mikiedem]

Re: Bergers on elk

I agree, shot placement, shot placement, shot placement!!! If you can't hit the sweet spot then don't shoot. I'm not against Berger's, actually very happy with their accuracy, my concern is the explosion on impact and not even close to a pass through or massive damage to the vitals. Is it possible that my velocity is too fast? 3456 fps at 12ft from muzzle. My wife shot a spike bull at 110 yards with her 257 Roberts and 115gr Berger, DRT! Top half of the heart was gone, massive wound channel, and no pass through. Bullet did just as designed. I was suprised that the RUM did not do more damage to the internals.

 

[Tomcat088]

Re: Bergers on elk

I've posted in some others threads my concern for exactly what you're talking about. I've been concerned for a while about using Berger hunting bullets on heavy or thick skinned animals. I have killed quite a few animals in general with the Berger hunting bullets. All of them died, although I will say that most weren't "thick skinned" or elk sized animals. I just noticed that the bullets seem to be QUITE "explosive", after they haven't penetrated all that far.

An an example, I shot a coyote with an "old" (before they had 2 types) 190 VLD from my .300 WSM. He was running and I clipped the back of his front shoulder. The bullet fragmented and easily killed the coyote, but the thing that surprised me was there was NOT an exit wound. I know that part of it was because the bullet deflected downward off the shoulder. The bullet fragmented so much though, it completely split the coyote from "stem to sternum" and all of his guts completely fell out. It made me a bit reluctant to use one on a deer, but I decided to.

The season right after that, I shot a small yearling doe at around 378 yards with a 190 grain Berger VLD Hunting bullet from my .300 WSM. The bullet hit just behind her front shoulder and passed between 2 ribs. It expanded quite violently, but penetrated all the way through her. It left a pretty large exit wound, larger than a softball. All of the internal organs were "goo" and most of the heart and lots of the lungs had been completely evacuated (sucked out) of the exit wound. She kicked, tried to run and fell down, and I thought was down for good. Then the deer still managed to get up and run probably 60 yards even though she was done. It was a good clean kill and only required the one shot, no follow up. Either way, with how violently the bullet expanded from hitting only hide and muscle, it made me wonder about their performance on heavy bone, and thick skinned animals.

I clearly remember thinking that I was glad I hadn't hit her front shoulder. I also remember thinking that I was glad I wasn't using it on something like a big elk and clipping some heavy bone. After that, I was dead set then to use the 180 grain Nosler Accubonds on any other deer or heavy animals I killed. They (Nosler AB's) have always performed well for me, and given adequate penetration, with enough expansion. I'm not surprised by this post, although I know it will be a bit disappointing to quite a few people. I shoot the Bergers long range, they're my "go to" bullet, and my pet load. They're still my favorite bullet to shoot. They just don't quite do what I like a hunting bullet to do (penetrate quite a lot, and expand some), and unless the jackets are made a bit thicker, I won't be using them on heavy animals. I'm getting curious as to what their target bullets will do when hitting heavy bone, and if they will expand a little bit. If they will, then I'll probably be using them, otherwise I'll stick with my accubonds.

 

[Gilly]

Re: Bergers on elk

I had the same experience with the 168 gr out of a 300 Win mag on a mule deer last year. 320 yards first and second shots behind front shoulder massive surface damage no penetration. 3rd shot finally put him down. This is open country with exception of corn fields and a average sized muley buck. If that had been in the mountains and a bull elk it could have gone for miles. I now load barnes ttsx and so far have not looked back.

 

[Luke]

Re: Bergers on elk

Yes, I'm sure elk burgers would be great...oh wait, you said bergers...nevermind...

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Bergers on elk

Congratulations SNAGLYTOOTH! Awesome shooting! I'm still working on curbing my buck fever.

 

[idahowitzer]

Re: Bergers on elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got any pics of the damage? I always wonder how a bullet gets an inch deep, then explodes. Once inside the rib cage there's nothing to stop all that energy that got through the skin and muscle and ribs.</div></div>

I really wish I had taken pictures but the shots were both VERY well placed. I think the problem is that the energy was dissipated too shallow, thus creating a single lung shot with little heart damage. An elk can sometimes go a LOOONNNGG ways with a single lung.

 

[jasonahull]

Re: Bergers on elk

I shot a mule deer with a 130 grain berger out of a 6.5x47 lapua at 214 yards, one shot and dead, also a muley at 525 yards in montana with a 7wsm using the 180 berger target bullet, one shot and dead. Neither had exit wounds or ran off, but inside was fubar. They seem to work good for me on deer, and I have a feeling if i get a shot at an elk, it will be with my 338 lapua shooting 300 grain bergers, I dont think it will be an issue. Atleast I hope not.