ARC Nucleus with Barloc has been very easy to change barrels. I plan on putting barlocs on all my savage prefit actions.
Best action and barrel system for changing yourself.
- Thread starter Yeetdude
- Start date
I'm using the West Texas Ordinance Switch lug and love it. (Defiance Ruckus action, KRG Whiskey-3 chassi and Proof Research carbon barrels).
Now I have it in 6.5CM, 308 and 300PRC. My 338L barrel is on order. I go to the range and shoot all 3 calibers. change over takes about 5 min. just hands and a small allen. They return perfectly to zero. Great gunsmith has the barrels time <1/8MOA horizontal shift. I just have to adjust elevation on scope to the recorded mil change.
So, a rifle system with quick (2 minute) change barrels that constantly repeats and is capable of 1/4 MOA is stupid?
They may not be what you, or others like you want, but they are exactly what I and others like me want!
I won't go into the pros and cons of different rifle systems, but realize a man with one rifle that knows how to use it is a man to be respected.
I was a very early adopter of the TL3, at the time there were only barrel nut setups. Kind of a PITA dealing with headspace gauges... Almost all custom actions can take shouldered prefit barrels. Go that route, don't mess with barrel nut setups.
The advantages of the barrel nut over the pre-fit are that you set your headspace more exactly and some folks think you get a more uniform barrel/action lockup. Since you tighten the barrel down on the headspace gauge, you're right at SAAMI min headspace.
Most pre-fits are very good these days, though I've seen 5 or 6 that were wrong (over, under, too big a chamfer on the edge of the barrel to make feeding easier but exposing too much of the cartridge head, etc).
I have a Zeus action, and for the original ask--easy swap out at a match without taking the whole rifle apart--I think it's the best. Easy, repeatable. Just make sure the pre-fits are right, and that the way you lock up the barrel is the same each time. Maybe put a witness mark on the barrel and make sure it's indexing to the same spot each time. HTH.
Hi,
Can you hold that same 1/4 MOA and be remotely expedient with shooting a bullpup design left handed?
Sincerely,
Theis
AI is king. The arc barloc will work well as long as everything is done correctly.
I personally have 3 bighorn actions. 2 TL3s and an origin with a HLR lug. I run gunsmith cut TL3 barrels (shouldered) when I want top accuracy, and when I want cheap I run Criterion Savage prefits from NSS. I set headspace and then red loctite the barrel nut in place. After that I run them like a shouldered barrel. I use a Ross vise and change barrels wherever I want. I never take the action out of the stock or remove the optic. You could use a bench mounted vice the same way. It just isn't portable.
I thought about doing what Theis did in lieu of the Ross vice, but didn't have the scrap or the time to mess with it when I needed it. The material+my time was Ross vise money.
I torque everything to 65 ft lbs. I have had zero issues with the system.
Some of the Criterion savage prefits I have will shoot sub .3 moa. All will shoot at .5 moa with load workup. The barrels that I pay my gunsmith to cut will usually shoot .5 moa with just about every load with good components, so load workup is pretty much a non issue.
I can basically buy 2 Savage prefits for 1 cut rifled gunsmith chambered barrel.
There are a lot of good options for switch barrel setups.
I personally have 3 bighorn actions. 2 TL3s and an origin with a HLR lug. I run gunsmith cut TL3 barrels (shouldered) when I want top accuracy, and when I want cheap I run Criterion Savage prefits from NSS. I set headspace and then red loctite the barrel nut in place. After that I run them like a shouldered barrel. I use a Ross vise and change barrels wherever I want. I never take the action out of the stock or remove the optic. You could use a bench mounted vice the same way. It just isn't portable.
I thought about doing what Theis did in lieu of the Ross vice, but didn't have the scrap or the time to mess with it when I needed it. The material+my time was Ross vise money.
I torque everything to 65 ft lbs. I have had zero issues with the system.
Some of the Criterion savage prefits I have will shoot sub .3 moa. All will shoot at .5 moa with load workup. The barrels that I pay my gunsmith to cut will usually shoot .5 moa with just about every load with good components, so load workup is pretty much a non issue.
I can basically buy 2 Savage prefits for 1 cut rifled gunsmith chambered barrel.
There are a lot of good options for switch barrel setups.
Yes, Desert Tech makes left hand guns too.
As for me I do just fine right hand. It balances much better when shooting free hand too, since the weight is closer in. And if I run a 31" suppressed 338, the OAL is much easier to work with than a conventional bolt gun. The receiver clamps on 5" of barrel shank that supports the barrel and suppressor far more securely than any of the threaded actions. Each design has it's strengths and weaknesses, I identified everything I needed in a precision rifle, and found the one that had most of what I wanted. Do I have the perfect gun, no, but in my opinion and for my needs I have as close to it as I can currently buy.
Hi,
I wasn't talking about shooting a left hand bullpup left handed, lol...
I was talking about you having to shoot your RH bullpup weak sided.
I have not messed with a desert tech much in regards to its' balance but I have a fair amount of time on the rifle it is copied from...DSR 1
IIRC from the industry records, the owner of desert tech has one of the few DSR 1's that are in the USA.
He purchased it after a Shot Show one year that DSR exhibited. To his benefit he definitely improved the trigger over the DSR 1 though!!
Sincerely,
Theis
I wasn't talking about shooting a left hand bullpup left handed, lol...
I was talking about you having to shoot your RH bullpup weak sided.
I have not messed with a desert tech much in regards to its' balance but I have a fair amount of time on the rifle it is copied from...DSR 1
IIRC from the industry records, the owner of desert tech has one of the few DSR 1's that are in the USA.
He purchased it after a Shot Show one year that DSR exhibited. To his benefit he definitely improved the trigger over the DSR 1 though!!
Sincerely,
Theis
it would be super easy to cut a 1/2 square into that for a torque wrench if you OCD requires such.
That's ok, kinda thought so but you didn't specify it. I would have a harder time than most trying that as my left eye is unusable for sighting. I can do it, but have work at it. Yes, the DSR-1 was the inspiration for the DTA SRS, that is a very rare firearm. As I said earlier, the SRS is not perfect, but has the features I want, and I really do like the trigger. I am familiar with off side shooting in the tactical environment, as I am a former Sheriff Deputy LE Tactical instructor. Thanks for mentioning the DSR-1, brings back memories.Hi,
I wasn't talking about shooting a left hand bullpup left handed, lol...
I was talking about you having to shoot your RH bullpup weak sided.
I have not messed with a desert tech much in regards to its' balance but I have a fair amount of time on the rifle it is copied from...DSR 1
IIRC from the industry records, the owner of desert tech has one of the few DSR 1's that are in the USA.
He purchased it after a Shot Show one year that DSR exhibited. To his benefit he definitely improved the trigger over the DSR 1 though!!
Sincerely,
Theis
Hi,
Just in case you haven't seen it....
Your rifle looks pretty new in your picture but not sure if this new.
Desert Tech Issues Immediate Recall on SRS Strikers - GunsAmerica Digest
Sincerely,
Theis
Just in case you haven't seen it....
Your rifle looks pretty new in your picture but not sure if this new.
Desert Tech Issues Immediate Recall on SRS Strikers - GunsAmerica Digest
Sincerely,
Theis
Quickest barrel swap I own is a dta. 4 screws and pull it apart. Spendy setup though.
Otherwise look at some of the savage small shank prefits. All you need there is a barrel vice, wrench, action wrench, go gauge and barrel nut.
Xdeano
Otherwise look at some of the savage small shank prefits. All you need there is a barrel vice, wrench, action wrench, go gauge and barrel nut.
Xdeano
Either a remage/savage style system or any custom action that has prefit support. Bighorn, Defiance, etc, are all going to have prefits ready to buy for most popular calibers. For the odd ball calibers, you can always ask someone like Greg at SPR to spin you up one without having to send your action off.
Some thoughts:
Factory systems - fast and easy to swap on the fly, but can be costly and limiting - for example trigger changes etc.
Accuracy International - quick change, standard design [Pros, designed as a system | Cons, costly and limited to their architecture]
Desert Tech - quick change, bullpup [Pros, designed as a system, less expensive and wider variety than AI | Cons, bullpup (possibly) and limited to their platform]
Desert Tech's systems moves the barrel extension with the barrel, so the fit between the bolt and the barrel extension really doesn't change. Which is why they claim zero point of impact shift across barrel changes.
Outside the Receiver | Pros - you can quickly swap your barrel at the range if needed with very minimal tools | Cons - barrels must be threaded specifically to the component. You can't for example swap a barrel threaded for a TL3 with a ARC Barloc over to use on another TL3 without a ARC Barloc.
ARC Barloc
West Texas Ordinance
Combined into the receiver
I am not familiar with the Terminus actions, but have reached out to them to get some information, I think this is a really great idea if executed well, but I have no first hand experience with this type of design. I think it addresses the issues above with a non-factory design, but eliminates the problem with the extra component the ARC Barloc or WTO have. The big question is how they have solved the issue, how well the barrel stays in place and how repeatable the change is.
Non Quick change:
Action wrench and barrel vice with a shouldered barrel -- This is very easy, but not simple to do at the range on the fly. Not normally what anyone would consider quick change, but more along the lines of DIY barrel changes. With the quality and consistency from action makers these days pre-fits are pretty standard fare, and its very simple to do yourself.
Savage Nut system -- This is the "original" quick change system, but again has issues like fitment into stocks etc, and has limited contour and requires setting (and later resetting) headspace with a gauge.
There are others I am sure - for example I think Barret may have a Quick Change system, and everyone seems to be doing it now, also I know there are barrel nuts that are low profile as well, so there really are a TON of options. I think the biggest decision is when you what to change the barrel? Is it at the range on the fly, or are you planning to simply change your barrels yourself at home in your shop? That should help figure out what basic direction you want to go.
Factory systems - fast and easy to swap on the fly, but can be costly and limiting - for example trigger changes etc.
Accuracy International - quick change, standard design [Pros, designed as a system | Cons, costly and limited to their architecture]
Desert Tech - quick change, bullpup [Pros, designed as a system, less expensive and wider variety than AI | Cons, bullpup (possibly) and limited to their platform]
Desert Tech's systems moves the barrel extension with the barrel, so the fit between the bolt and the barrel extension really doesn't change. Which is why they claim zero point of impact shift across barrel changes.
Outside the Receiver | Pros - you can quickly swap your barrel at the range if needed with very minimal tools | Cons - barrels must be threaded specifically to the component. You can't for example swap a barrel threaded for a TL3 with a ARC Barloc over to use on another TL3 without a ARC Barloc.
ARC Barloc
West Texas Ordinance
Combined into the receiver
I am not familiar with the Terminus actions, but have reached out to them to get some information, I think this is a really great idea if executed well, but I have no first hand experience with this type of design. I think it addresses the issues above with a non-factory design, but eliminates the problem with the extra component the ARC Barloc or WTO have. The big question is how they have solved the issue, how well the barrel stays in place and how repeatable the change is.
Non Quick change:
Action wrench and barrel vice with a shouldered barrel -- This is very easy, but not simple to do at the range on the fly. Not normally what anyone would consider quick change, but more along the lines of DIY barrel changes. With the quality and consistency from action makers these days pre-fits are pretty standard fare, and its very simple to do yourself.
Savage Nut system -- This is the "original" quick change system, but again has issues like fitment into stocks etc, and has limited contour and requires setting (and later resetting) headspace with a gauge.
There are others I am sure - for example I think Barret may have a Quick Change system, and everyone seems to be doing it now, also I know there are barrel nuts that are low profile as well, so there really are a TON of options. I think the biggest decision is when you what to change the barrel? Is it at the range on the fly, or are you planning to simply change your barrels yourself at home in your shop? That should help figure out what basic direction you want to go.
@THEIS
-- ha it only took 1 bash to my face with the bolt knob while on the clock to remind me to move my head out of the way when running the bolt on my SRS-A1. Then every time I had to shoot support sided I magically remembered to move my head out of the way
-- ha it only took 1 bash to my face with the bolt knob while on the clock to remind me to move my head out of the way when running the bolt on my SRS-A1. Then every time I had to shoot support sided I magically remembered to move my head out of the way
