Best all round .308 barrel length?

[Graham]

In that Magpul DVD they shot out to a mile with a 16inch and 20 inch barrel

Oh boy.... That's one more thing wrong with that video.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I seriously doubt I am ever going to find myself in a position where a rifle's accuracy potential will be required at short barrel distances, which I define as indoors, period. For such distances, a 20ga youth shotgun would be my personal preference. IMHO a .308's place does not include indoors.

In most instances, I'd only want a semi for carbine distances, and would favor the semi carbine for its volume of fire as opposed to its precision accuracy. I see an SKS as adequate, and not an overpriced underachiever for such a purpose. I break with this viewpoint only for my Stag Super Varminter, which is valued first for its accuracy, and the semi capacity for its convenience (maybe more in terms of followup), and not for volume of fire.

For true rifle distances (i.e. 200yd and further), I see little value in 'bobbit'ing a rifle's main asset. Rifles are longer for a reason, and that reason is to allow a greater reach without overstoking the boiler room. Short barrels for long distance remind me of the guy who's red in the face puffing on his peashooter, trying to reach things that are just barely within range.

For a .308, I'd consider 24" as a reasonable minimum, 26" as ideal, and 28" as a nice hedge against a 1Kyd shot.

My .260's are 24" and 28", and I replaced all my .308's with .260's and .280's, they have a serious edge where efficiency and LR recoil are concerned. I'd rather shoot a .280 with a 150gr bullet as 40 rounds for score than a .308 with a 175.

Greg

 

[The Gump]

To me it depends on if you're using a can. 16"-18" if you are using a can and 20"-22" if you're not. There isn't much difference in max effective range with the .308 and those barrel lengths. Just plug the #'s in your balistics app and see for yourself.

I would be more concerned on how it balances when shooting off hand.

 

[MrSunday]

22"-24" for me

 

[remington patriot]

I say 20" at the most on your AX. I opted for a 18.5 Barlein 1:10 on my AI and I will only be giving up maybe 25fps. I like the portability and extra stiffness of a shorter barrel.

 

[bh-ltr]

my LTR w/ 20" barrel in an AICS stock hasn't hindered me for longer range shots. Just the other day at my class we got 4 rounds out of 6 on a 30" plate at 1200 in 13 mph winds. If it were longer the gun would be a lot more annoying to handle.

~Brett

 

[Rem7targetactical]

I too beat myself up over and over about this same question. I recently rebarreled a rifle in 308 and had a 26" before with a Badger brake on it and it was a monster rifle that I couldn't see doing anything quickly with. It had a varmint contour barrel and that's what I was using this time too. I was on here day and night looking at the shorty 18-20" rifle thread and searching barrel lengths all over this forum!!! And my gunsmith was no help as he wanted me to stay at 26" but I already knew that wasn't happening. This time I went with a JP Cooley brake and he and I compromised with cutting the barrel so it would finish at his 26" WITH the brake installed. It turned out to be 23 1/2" when removed and I love it. I do like the 20's and sometimes wish I'd went for it but to be honest the 23 1/2" is just fine.

 

[hahco]

I've got a 26" 700P and a 20" Savage PC. The 26" is better at the range, 20" is better for huntin. Simple as that.

The extra 6" doesn't give just a tremendous amount of additional velocity over the 20", but it does give some. Depends on the load, of course, but there can be 100 fps+ of difference.

I'll take the 20" over the 26" for totin' purposes all day every day.

 

[bogeybrown]

It seems to come down to what the individual shooter is comfortable with and believes in for their intended purpose. A number of really bright guys on this thread have said they wouldn't go beyond "x" distance with a barrel under "y" length, while at the same time a number of us have gone WAY beyond that magic "x" distance with our shorty rifles. My cut-down 1/12 Rem Varmint barrel at 18" has happily gone beyond 1200yds with Black Hills 175smk, and I've had guys with 16" barrels right next to me hitting those same targets. It's slower getting there, but no less accurate on steel. As evidenced by the wide-range of responses, not everyone sees their shorter-barreled rifles as effective at those distances.

 

[nic_bravo_whiskey]

I've read this entire thread. It's amazing all the different answers you get. Some say you need a 26" barrel to shoot beyond 800 yards. Some say their 18" barrels are no problem out to 1200 yards.
There is more to play than just barrel length. If you are using a custom barrel with a tight chamber, you are going to have a better performing rifle than the guy using a factory barrel with a "loose" chamber.

About a month ago, a friend and I were using a chronograph. He was shooting his 700 5R Tactical with a 24" barrel, and I was shooting my Savage 10fp with a 20" barrel. My Savage was constantly about 100 fps faster than his 700 using the same exact ammo with a shorter barrel.

A few years ago, same thing, except the barrel length was the opposite. This was before I cut my barrel from 24" to 20". My Savage 10fp I was shooting had the 24" barrel. My friend was shooting his 700 SPS Tactical with a 20" barrel. We were shooting the same ammo from the same box. The rounds from my Savage constantly blew holes right through the steel target, while the rounds from the 700 only made dents. Now, we didn't have a chronograph at that time, but it's pretty obvious whose rounds were traveling faster. So that doesn't support the "anything after 20" only creates drag" theory. There is more to it than just barrel length.

http://www.sniperforums.com/forum/rifles/25440-barrel-length-velocity-results-pics-added.html

All the rifles above were .308's.

 

[6.5BR]

So a 24" will exit a 2 legged varmint, whereas a 20" will just give it a headache. Interesting

 

[UNRL Ghandi]

I bought a GAP Hospitaller in .308 and had a sweet custom hand load set-up for it and its 24" barrel. Shot in some comps with it and did fairly well for a long range newbie. 600 yards was much easier and out to 1000 was more difficult because of the wind obviously, but my elevation was consistent. After owning the rifle for almost two years I decided that I wanted it to be more versatile and sent it back to GAP for a barrel change and a lightweight 90% carbon fiber stock. Barrel size dropped down to 18". Same action, same custom ammo and the obvious thing happened, velocity dropped way down. Where I was pounding 2750 FPS out of the 24" I was getting under 2500 FPS out of the new barrel. The barrel length cutting velocity by almost 300 fps does play a significant role in my having to make more windage adjustments at long range. Can I still punch the x ring at 600 mid range? Yeah, but I'm not near as confident long range with it as I was with my 24" configuration. Some people would say that's not the shorter barrel's fault and that if I could read wind better I'd be just as accurate as with the longer barrel. That may be true, but I (with all my skills or lack thereof) was more accurate with a longer barrel than with the shorter barrel because the additional length gave me more FPS and reduced the effects of wind on my bullet which helped mitigate my weakness as a long range shooter - reading the wind.

And we all know that accuracy isn't defined by just the action, the barrel, the stock, scope, rings, or shooter, it's the combination of all these things working together, which is why you see so many different responses here. You want the best accuracy, get the most sturdy rings, the crispest trigger, the clearest glass, and the longest barrel in order to minimize those variables so your accuracy can depend on the biggest variable of all - you.

My suggestion when building a long range gun is spec it out for maximum accuracy first, then do trade-offs for things like versatility, portability, stopping power, etc. I think you'll find when you're doing your accuracy specs that the .308 caliber won't be your first choice anyway, but if it is, you'll probably end up in the 20-24" barrel range like most people find themselves in.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

The more you make the shot depend on the shooter, the more opportunity you have for mistakes to be made. The rifle doesn't make the mistakes.

Wind skill is acquired, not innate. One could wear out (a) barrel(s) acquiring it. Forcing that barrel to run closer and closer to peak pressures simply hastens that outcome. Using a shorter barrel simply to make some point or other may even border on willful equipment abuse.

Why somebody would choose to make the LR marksmanship process anything other than easier is contrarian nonsense, IMHO. Hey, hey; look at me, I can make it with a shorter barrel (and the band played on...). So what?

My take on short barrels is that they are optimized for tight quarters. But a bolt Gun? For in close, anything I'd want to carry would be a semi, or at least a pump/lever gun; and it would more likely be a shotgun. If there was ever an instance where less is more, this ain't it.

I repeat; IMHO.

Greg

 

[thrusty]

20" is perfect for hunting in the woods, not too long for suppressor use, reaches 600 yards effectively, and doesn't feel like you're carrying around a tree trunk.

22" is the best "all around" length IMO though....

 

[Greg Langelius *]

20" is perfect for hunting in the woods, not too long for suppressor use, reaches 600 yards effectively, and doesn't feel like you're carrying around a tree trunk.

22" is the best "all around" length IMO though....

This makes perfect sense to me. For woodland/brush hunting I have several 22" bolt rifles, but they do not employ heavy barrels and are not intended for any kind of sustained fire.

I do have a 22" heavy barreled rifle, it is a .30BR and is configured for use in an application that is very close to BR in concept, but also involves sustained fire in 20+rd strings. It is, for me, a very specialized exception, and it has never been employed beyond 250yd. Coincidentally, the bullet (SRA 125gr Pro-Hunter) and load could also serve well as a deer load at such distances, but I would never really be seen carrying a 12-13lb rifle in the woods.

Greg

 

[Chanonry]

I say 20" at the most on your AX. I opted for a 18.5 Barlein 1:10 on my AI and I will only be giving up maybe 25fps. I like the portability and extra stiffness of a shorter barrel.

I have a different view. The longer the barrel the better the ballistics (up to a limit) so the better all round rifle is the one with the longer barrel. If you have a folder then the longer barrel is even less of an issue. It is not much use if the rifle will not do the job when you get to the shooting position even if you are a bit less sweaty when you get there.

 

[armydog]

I was using a 20" with a 1-12 twist but couldn't get the velocity and range I wanted, so I had it rebarreled with a Bartlein 24" 1-11.25 I get better velocity and its easier to hit those 1K targets.

 

[308Gunner]

I have 2 308s one a 20" broughton and the other a 22" Krieger both rifles shot the same load, the 20" is running 2690 and the 22" 2735 both are heavy barrels and I like both. I have shot out to 1350 with both and never felt I needed a longer barrel, it all comes down to you and what you want.

 

[nic_bravo_whiskey]

I was using a 20" with a 1-12 twist but couldn't get the velocity and range I wanted, so I had it rebarreled with a Bartlein 24" 1-11.25 I get better velocity and its easier to hit those 1K targets.

That's good news, because I just ordered a 700 Milspec 5R SS with a 24" 11.25 barrel. It's not a Bartlein, but hey... I'm hoping to get good results from it, and I don't plan on cutting the barrel. I live in an area where I can easily max out any rifle in the desert.

 

[Rprecision]

18.5 if its going to get a brake or a can otherwise 20"

I have also found the shorter barrels like the 1/10 twist, YMMV

 

[remington patriot]

I have a different view. The longer the barrel the better the ballistics (up to a limit) so the better all round rifle is the one with the longer barrel. If you have a folder then the longer barrel is even less of an issue. It is not much use if the rifle will not do the job when you get to the shooting position even if you are a bit less sweaty when you get there.

I respect your opinion. But the longer barrels do not offer anything extra other than minimal gains in fps if the shorter barrels have the right amount of twist. If your argument were true then why do you see .338 Lapuas with 20" barrels??

 

[6.5texas.shooter]

Just run a short barreled 6.5 caliber rifle...

I love the .308 winchester cartridge. It's awesome to reload for, easy to get components, and you can get load data from your grandmother.... But facts are facts... My 6.5 creedmoor with a 18 inch barrel ( with a 140 grn bullet) is mocking the ballistics of a 26" barreled .308. And just a little past 1500 yards the 6.5 is out shooting my AI AE in 308. Both are subsonic at this distance.... But the smaller caliber is bucking it a little better.... Maybe it's because I have over $11,000 in rifle and optics.... But a AI AE isn't anything to bad mouth. If anything I suggest a short barreled 6.5 instead of .308. More distance for the same money...

 

[bogeybrown]

The more you make the shot depend on the shooter, the more opportunity you have for mistakes to be made. The rifle doesn't make the mistakes.

Wind skill is acquired, not innate. One could wear out (a) barrel(s) acquiring it. Forcing that barrel to run closer and closer to peak pressures simply hastens that outcome. Using a shorter barrel simply to make some point or other may even border on willful equipment abuse.

Why somebody would choose to make the LR marksmanship process anything other than easier is contrarian nonsense, IMHO. Hey, hey; look at me, I can make it with a shorter barrel (and the band played on...). So what?

My take on short barrels is that they are optimized for tight quarters. But a bolt Gun? For in close, anything I'd want to carry would be a semi, or at least a pump/lever gun; and it would more likely be a shotgun. If there was ever an instance where less is more, this ain't it.

I repeat; IMHO.

Greg

Greg, I've enjoyed reading your posts for a long time; you've brought science and common-sense to some other threads that sorely needed it. I see where you're coming from on this one but I don't have a shorter barrel because I'm trying to prove something. With a .308 we accept that it's just not the most efficient LR round out there with all the 6-6.5mm variants out there. I just don't lose performance on targets going shorter. If I were hunting I'd run out of energy quicker which would limit the ethical range, but that range is beyond the range where I'd probably feel it was ethical to shoot with any barrel length of 308.
You've gone .260/.280 where the velocity/BC combo really makes those rounds superstars. You'd be severely handicapping yourself going too short on a barrel. The .308 just isn't that great beyond 1k no matter what bbl length you're using, there are a ton of better options out there. I know it's sort of bass-ackwards, but with the minimal loss of velocity, we can shorten .308 barrels to more comfortable/balanced lengths and still have the same hit probability at LR. We don't lose accuracy, we just lose some velocity and need to adjust for wind accordingly. If optimum wind-beating was my goal, then I'd shoot a different caliber, which is where one of my shorter .308s is going: Since I have 4 .308s the longest of which is 20", one of them is heading for a caliber swap to one of the new superstar calibers and I'll leave that barrel at whatever length my builder tells me is the shortest I can go and not cut the legs out from under the round.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Good reasoning, and I respect your viewpoint. I also thank you for the compliment.

There are no gray areas, not because nothing is gray, but rather because it's all gray; so the distinction itself has no relevance. For me, the .308 was as my "Mothers' Milk"; like essentially all of us here, I cut my teeth on it. But when it comes down to reasonable distance and barrel lengths limit come up, and then we factor in that magic 1000yd distance, it's not a hard choice for me to pick between short and long barrels. To me it's a no-brainer.

We all go there, and some go further (to 6.5 and 7mm chamberings), some don't. Not for me to say which is better, but I have a definite preference.

Same with barrel lengths. I am taller, and "longer" isn't "so long" in my estimate as it must be in others'; but my real bias is with regard to where each length gets its preferred application. Where shorter is concerned, it's not the barrel length that's out of place, it's the action type, IMHO. Longer belongs on the bolt gun, but shorter is probably better on a semi, and in the extreme, that semi is probably better a shotgun. Put more practically, short belongs in CQB, and a 308 bolt gun of any length would be far from my first CQB preference. Interestingly, my AR wears a long barrel (Stag Model 6, 24" 5.56), so my bias apparently only runs one way, but my Stag is not intended for anything under 100yd either. If I pop for another Upper, it will be 20" or under, and configured light with a reflex sight.

For me, this Oddball bias of mine makes less and less sense out of marrying short (heavy) barrels with bolt actions; and obviously (to me anyway) the large exception here is for woodland/brush and hunting.

Greg

 

[bogeybrown]

Yep, I'm with you. Not to be disrespectful to the .308, which has been a historically great round and was killing bad guys LONG before the newer choices became available; but in today's LR arena the .308 kind of sucks by comparison to other choices. With this in mind, you just don't lose anything going shorter. If you view it as not a great round past 1000, then a few extra inches of barrel doesn't matter. Keeping that in mind, I prefer the weight, balance, and aesthetics of the shorter barrel and there is not one single target distance that I could hit with a 26" bbl that I can't hit with an 18". I may need more elevation (and wind correction) but even out to a mile, my 18" was getting there and the difference at that distance was negligable no matter what bbl length.
Where I really see the importance of bbl length is the high-performing LR calibers that really do "need" that extra velocity, and where the MV suffers drastically by going shorter. Those rounds are BUILT around the premise of "X" velocity offering max performance and it's silly to build a rifle in those calibers and then reduce the performance to that of a .308 (but with a lighter bullet) by chopping the barrel too far.
I LOVE my .308s for what they are, and not having the ability right now to load my own, the readily available match ammo is a huge selling point.
As I said, I'm going to do a caliber swap on one of them and do a side by side comparison, but it's not as though I'm gaining range with the new caliber, I'm just getting a more efficient round.

 

[travis.cooley]

Like others said, taylor rifle to use. For long range target, i would either go 22 or 24. I have a 24 inch APA stick that will shoot a solid 1/3 moa to 800 all day. That being said, i shot my buddy's 22 inch m24 contour trued remington build, and it literally shoots just as well. Both rifles have had load workups for 178 amax done. Both of them shoot a no shit half moa at 1000 in little to no wind conditions. As u prob already know, that caliber is really effectively maxed around 800. In my experience though, the good premium barrel and good finish chambering is more important than the difference between 22 and 24 inches. 24 is a little more stable on the bench, and a little faster all things being equal, but the 22 can be loaded to shoot just as well to max effective

 

[lifebreath]

22" if I had to choose just one.

 

[RyanScott]

If I can't do it with an 18" .308, I shouldn't be doing it with a .308 at all.

 

[jdgray]

I picked up 200fps going to a 26" Shilen Select Match barrel, opposed to the 20" factory Savage barrel, with the same load. Apples and oranges I realize changing barrels, but length does matter....

 

[Aimsmall55]

I have had them in 20" 22" and 28". 20 " AAC-SD, GA PRECISION CRUSADER, A CUSTOM BUILD WITH AICS AND STILLER TAC 30 with a #9 bartlein.
For hunting woods and shots out to 400 yards on deer, AAC SD all the way. Sold my GA, but I was using it mainly as a target rifle and would have opted for a 24" bbl. As far as the custom, good lord it's heavy. 19#'s. it's at the smith right now getting a few "goodies" added. I have only shot it 10 times doing a break in but it shot 3 and 5 shot groups at 100 yards that were one ragged hole. I built it for ftr shooting but a) it's too damn heavy, b) having a baby boy in a few weeks so kinda have no need for it as my range time will be limited at best.

Custom build .308

Sps AAC SD .308

GA CRUSADER .308

 

[precision308]

I have a 20in that I can push a 168 at only 2650. That bullet will tumble at 900 yds. I have a 26in ghst s shoot 178 in at over 2750 and it is still true at 1200yds. I think my next build will be a 24.

 

[VKC]

22"'for inside 1000 yards shooting.

 

[nic_bravo_whiskey]

I have a 20in that I can push a 168 at only 2650. That bullet will tumble at 900 yds. I have a 26in ghst s shoot 178 in at over 2750 and it is still true at 1200yds. I think my next build will be a 24.

Must have been a crappy barrel, because my 20" factory Savage barrel would push 168 FGMM out at over 2700.

 

[precision308]

I wouldn't say crappy barrel cause the rifle shoots well. Some barrels are faster than others but I would not necessarily say it is always a measure of their quality.

 

[nic_bravo_whiskey]

I wouldn't say crappy barrel cause the rifle shoots well. Some barrels are faster than others but I would not necessarily say it is always a measure of their quality.

This is true.

 

[generalzip]

Must have been a crappy barrel, because my 20" factory Savage barrel would push 168 FGMM out at over 2700.

I've got a 16" 1-8 twist I've loaded up with 175 smk and 43 and 44 grains of varget so I'll be interested to see what kind of speeds I get out of them. I'll report back with my findings


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[The Gump]

What's your dope at distance? Zero distance, atmosphere...

Who made your barrel too?

I've got a 16" 1-8 twist I've loaded up with 175 smk and 43 and 44 grains of varget so I'll be interested to see what kind of speeds I get out of them. I'll report back with my findings



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[generalzip]

What's your dope at distance? Zero distance, atmosphere...

Who made your barrel too?

It's a dta so Krieger barrel I believe. I haven't taken it out to distance yet that's this weekend. 100 yard zero. Atmosphere is Houston. High humidity and 80's-90's. Elevation non existent.


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[nic_bravo_whiskey]

I've got a 16" 1-8 twist I've loaded up with 175 smk and 43 and 44 grains of varget so I'll be interested to see what kind of speeds I get out of them. I'll report back with my findings


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

That'll definitely be interesting. Please do.

 

[buffybuster]

I like 21.234987465759" from the boltface. That's the perfect balance of length and performance for me.............

Seriously speaking the optimum length of the barrel is going to depend the intended use.

If you want a handy, well balance rifle and not intend on shooting much past 800yds with 175's, then an 18-20" Med to Heavy Palma barrel will fit the bill.

If you want to shoot to 1K yds with 175's in all conditions, then I would lean toward a 24" barrel.

If you want to shoot to 1K yds with 155's in all conditions, then I would definitely looks towards a 26" barrel.

I realize many shooters have fine results shooting to 1K yds with barrels shorter than 24", but altitude, atmospheric conditions and whether you have a "fast or slow" barrel can have a major impact on this. Why take the chance, if that is your intended purpose?

We have opportunities to shoot from about 7000' to Below Sea Level. I have seen numerous rifles shoot fine at 1K yds at higher altitude, suddenly start tumbling bullets and hitting the berm at Sea Level.

If I have to pick the best compromise length and contour it would be something near 22" in a Med Palma contour.

 

[desert dog]

I really like the shorter varmint contour barrels for 308.

Here is a muzzle velocity comparison for the same varmint profile barrels with 1:10 twist in .308, all using the same lot of FGMM 175gr SMK:

16.25" = 2,419 fps

17" = 2,457 fps

20" = 2,531 fps

I ring 15" wide steel pretty easily with the 20" barrel and commercial ammo at 1000. I am no expert marksman, and simply chrono my ammo and use the Applied Ballistics app on my phone and do the recommended ballistic calibrations to fine tune my MV. I got all of my BCs and info to put my rifles together by lurking on this forum for years. Basically what I am saying, is that if I can make 1000 yards shot easy with a short barrel and little formal training, than almost anyone can. So if you can do tiny groups at short ranges AND reliably hit at 1000 yards with a 20" barrel, why go with a longer rifle in .308? There are better options than 308 to shoot farther anyway.

Last week I shot my 20" gun at 1100 yards, and was ringing the 15" plate (of course, the 3000 ft elevation helped too!). I had never shot this rifle that far, and it was easier to hit than I thought: 1100 yard shot 308 - YouTube

 

[Warpdrv]

No Dog in the fight here, I'm new and learning, but a good trusted industry friend shared this, so I thought I'd share it as well, seems like an appropriate thread to do so.... For educational purposes.... although I'm sure its already been posted here...

The Truth About Barrel Length, Muzzle Velocity and Accuracy | The Truth About Guns

Appreciate all the info here, just starting to reload for my REPR, but my goal is to build a nice bolt gun next year - lots of info and choices for me to sift through, and Shot Show is just around the corner again to check out new possible platform possibilities.....

Cheers and carry on....

Patrick

 

[RyanScott]

The military chose the 24 inch barrel as it provides the best overall performance for their intended use.

Went to 20" with the M110 and will be 16" in the new carbine M110 variant if the funding/testing bears through.

My gunsmith seems to think that anything beyond 24" on a .308 and you begin to have diminishing returns, if not losses.

It gains at least to 30, but not much.

 

[EJATKINS]

I have a 26" remington 700 pss on an AICS stock that I enjoy shooting ,love it.

 

[ashiha]

Too many opinions and not enough science on the topic imo. Has no one done a controlled test with posted results?

I'd like to see something along the lines of said test by the Dallas SWAT (which I read about on the Tac Ops website), but with posted conditions, procedure, and results using ammo known to have extremely consistent MVs.

 

[Tango down]

Was going to mention it; it may be out there already, good stuff anyway.
SWAT Article BARREL LENGTH

 

[AEROMechanic]

Oh boy.... That's one more thing wrong with that video.

What else is wrong with that video? Todd is a pretty good distance shooter.

 

[PBR-XP FAN]

In .308, it seems like the best combination of muzzle velocity vs. portability seems
to come in the following configurations:

20" barrel with 5R 1:10 twist-rate, or 22.5" barrel with 5R 1:11.25 twist-rate.

Either of the above combinations would allow the use of +175gr bullets for
target range shooting out to 800-900 yards, but still be in a barrel length
short enough to be "portable" for hunting/survival use.

 

[Graham]

What else is wrong with that video? Todd is a pretty good distance shooter.

Todd's shooting ability is not the issue. Read the threads, there's more than one. Then you'll know.

 

[AEROMechanic]

Todd's shooting ability is not the issue. Read the threads, there's more than one. Then you'll know.

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