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Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

rawdeal77

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 11, 2011
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47
Dallas & Lubbock, Tx
My 3 best friends are all cardio surgeons. Anyone of them will tell you <span style="font-weight: bold">fat loss = calories burned > calories consumed </span>. In other words, as long as you’re burning more calories than you’re putting in, you're going to be losing weight. Alternatively, if you're consuming more calories than you're burning, then you're gaining weight.

Obviously, the best way to accomplish this is to exercise more and reduce caloric intake. However, there are some steps that can be taken to maximize the efficiency that your body can burn/metabolize calories.

One of these includes carb reduction, but these benefits are usually marginal, especially if you exercise regularly. First of all, don’t forget that Charles Atkins suffered from a heart attack, congestive heart failure, and hypertension just before his death. If you do decide to limit carbs, you should consider the TYPE of carbs you eat and the TIME you eat them.

Simple carbs (fruits, milk, "sweets"), are absorbed quickly as are the calories associated with these foods. Accordingly, these carbs should be either consumed earlier in the day or just before exercise, but never just before bed. Alternatively, these carbs can be cut out completely, especially if you take vitamin supplements, to replace what you would otherwise need from certain fruits.

Complex carbs (baked potatoes, whole wheat bread, etc.) are absorbed more slowly and are essential to healthy diet. A bowl of oatmeal or healthy cereal for breakfast, and two pieces of wheat bread on a sandwich for lunch, is usually a minimum guideline for complex carbs, even for an inactive person. As long as these are consumed within 5hrs of bedtime, there should be no significant impact on weight loss efficiency.

If you exercise, exercise longer exercise with less impact. The benefits are largely evidenced by a group of goat farmers in Italy who have the highest concentration of people over the age of 100 compared to anywhere else in the world (despite that they don't make much use of modern medicine). Researchers speculate their lifetime of spending days walking up and down mountains, herding goats provides an optimal exercise regime. Specifically, unlike jogging, this type of exercise doesn't stress the heart, and unlike weight-lifting, it doesn't pose a risk of injury.


Finally, the "no carbs" thing is only preferred for those individuals, who don't have active lifestyles. If you exercise, carbs help you exercise better thereby improving muscle growth and cardio fitness. Improved muscle growth and cardio fitness allows for better residual weight-loss where you can more effectively burn calories while you’re asleep or laying on the couch. This type of exercise has psychological benefits in that it is much easier to motivate for a leisurely stroll than a grueling 2hr workout at the gym.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

With all due respect, BULLSHIT.

As I have noted in this board several times, your cardio surgeons are so out of date with respect to nutrition, that they hardly merit a response. Check out the third phase of the Atkins Diet: it's back to carbs. Yeah, so what, and Jim Fixx, noted runner and running book author dropped dead within a month or so of completing a 10k in Erie, PA; and the two marathon runners who dropped dead in last month's Philly marathon (both sub-elite level, one 21, the other 40) presumably from cardiac arrest. The Italian "goat walkers" are likely engaged in high-intensity interval training, a signature method for improving musculo-skeletal strength, and, as a by-product, cardio-respiratory fitness. People only get injured with weights when they don't know WTF they are doing. Check out these references, pass them along to your cardio-surgeons and watch them shit their pants, probably from the carbs they just ate LOL
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www.wheatbellyblog.com
www.proteinpower.com
www.garytaubes.com
www.archevore.com
www.baye.com
www.bodybyscience.com
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!



As a physician myself i can honestly say the last thing you should take advice from a cardiothoracic surgeon is nutrition or exercise advice. And i mean that with the most importance. Surgeons consult nutritionist and internist in the hospital setting just ask for advice on how to manage diabetes, or what diet to put their patient on during their hospital course. They are so far removed from main stream medicine that they really dont need to. No different than me taking Chemistry I, II, Oragnic Chem I&II and Quantitative Analytical Chemistry, and Biochemisty I & II 15yrs ago and got A's in all of them. But now short of the periodic table i couldnt solve the simplest chemistry formula if my life depended on it, lol.


Couple of corrections, white potatoes are not complex carbs by any means. Now yams/sweet potatoes are a different story. Also it is fruit JUICE that is absorbed quickly. However, consuming whole apples, or oranges, the glycemic index is completely different because of all the fiber and pulp etc you consume.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

Best advice I ever got, and try to live by, is:

"If you can't pluck it out of a tree, dig it out of the ground, or kill it an eat it, it's no good for you. If people had to fuck with it to make it how you get it, it's junk. There's no pasta plants. There is no bread tree. Nobody goes on the hunt for the elusive wild Twinkies. Keep it simple son, do your exercises and you'll always look good"
 
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Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

Disagree if you want. These guys aren't 50yo surgeons "out of date" on nutrition issues. They've all just finished residencies at one of the top residency programs in the country. Moreover, they've all focused on nutrition and fitness as part of their research requirements throughout their residencies partnering with Dr. Ken Cooper (the guy who invented the concept of "aerobics") on the papers they published.

There are probably not too many people in the world better equipped to provide advice on such issues.

In short, if you think you can consume more calories than you burn and still lose weight, with all due respect, that's BULLSHIT. Ultimately, well-balanced carb consumption is required to maximize workout efficiency, and better workout efficiency will allow for more effective latent calorie burn, which will take care of the few extra calories resulting from carb consumption. To be sure, weight training as well as all other types of exercise should be part of a well-rounded fitness routine. However, although some high-intensity workouts (Long distance running, sprinting, heavy wieghtlifting) are okay in limited amounts, such workouts, when repeated consistently over time, cause undue stress on the heart. This is why you have an increase in circumstances where seemingly perfect physical specimens drop dead in their 20s from heart attacks. (and these aren't just marathon runners)

Check this out: http://discovermagazine.com/2006/jul/weightlifting
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rawdeal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Disagree if you want. These guys aren't 50yo surgeons "out of date" on nutrition issues. They've all just finished residencies at one of the top residency programs in the country. Moreover, they've all focused on nutrition and fitness as part of their research requirements throughout their residencies partnering with Dr. Ken Cooper (the guy who invented the concept of "aerobics") on the papers they published.

There are probably not too many people in the world better equipped to provide advice on such issues.

In short, if you think you can consume more calories than you burn and still lose weight, with all due respect, that's BULLSHIT. Ultimately, well-balanced carb consumption is required to maximize workout efficiency, and better workout efficiency will allow for more effective latent calorie burn, which will take care of the few extra calories resulting from carb consumption. To be sure, weight training as well as all other types of exercise should be part of a well-rounded fitness routine. However, although some high-intensity workouts (Long distance running, sprinting, heavy wieghtlifting) are okay in limited amounts, such workouts, when repeated consistently over time, cause undue stress on the heart. This is why you have an increase in circumstances where seemingly perfect physical specimens drop dead in their 20s from heart attacks. (and these aren't just marathon runners)

Check this out: http://discovermagazine.com/2006/jul/weightlifting </div></div>


Yes, Dr. Cooper is the one that pushed aerobics but ideas that were present in 60's and 70's really no longer apply i hate to say. If i had to treat my patients based on studies or evidence from the 70's, i would have a lot of patients no longer walking around. Dr. Cooper also had other agendas since he sells books and gives talks on aerobic fitness and will talk negatively about weight lifting.

I never disagreed that you cant lose weight if you are consuming more total calories than you are losing. You dont have to be a genius to figure that out. If you are consuming 1000 cals more than your BMR for your activity level then you are going to gain weight. The opposite is also true. The question come to how to lose weight (body fat) better and not lose lean body mass in the process. I am not an per say "Atkins" fan as in such severe restrictions. But i think initially if you are a fatty and want to lose weight having a "low carb" less than 40gr daily (and the ones you have should have good carbs), high protein and healthy fats is the quickest ticket. Then after you get rid of the body fat, you can change it up to having more complex carbs, keeping protein at a good level and continuing with healthy fats.

Remember that in anything, science or medicine related, the truth is never in either extreme and usually is in the middle somewhere. Saying "weight lifting is bad for you" or any blanket statement like that is just idiotic and for every one study that shows that it is bad, i will show you five studies that it is good.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

you betcha I disagree, raw deal. Your guys are getting taught the same, outdated, outmoded exercise/nutrition bullshit that MD's years before them have been taught Go ahead, read through the websites whose url's I've posted. Challenge yourself with information that may in the long-run save you a lot of aggravation.

See, I don't have to worry about caloric intake/caloric output. I'm not hamstrung walking around with fucking calculators or balance logs inputting that crap. i eat x2 every 16 -18 hours: high, good saturated fat, low to mod protein, and minimal carbs, as low as I can get away with. I'm 73 years old, 5'7" and weight stable, this AM at 161.0 and 9.9% body fat. I do x1 high intensity strength training protocol per week, 7 exercises, one set to complete involuntary muscular failure.

I wouldn't run a fucking inch these days! although I come from a history of over 20 marathons and 8 ultras, together with the weekly mileage necessary to train for those efforts. That was not exercise: that was stu fucking pidity. And as to Well-rounded??? Now that's an interesting concept. WTF does that mean? a little bit of this, a little bit of that, ya know, "jack of all trades, master of none?" Ever heard about sport specific training? Ya know, sorta like the Italian mountain-goaters; that's what I'm and you are talking about! Those guys could climb all day I'll betcha. I also betcha they couldn't swim a fucking lick; or cycle worth a shit, let alone complete a CrossFit WOD.
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C'mon. read those links and challenge yourself; more important challenge those "young dogs" who just got out of Medical School where they get taught the same nutritional and exercise bullshit that afflicts too many physicians and so-called fitness gurus. Discovermagazine dot com???? Sorta like "ladies home journal":D
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Yes, you can loose weight if you eat less that your body needs. Bodybuilders have been doing that for years when they cut weight. That generally involves counting calories the old fashion way or using the available programs like FitDay or LoseIt. So in theory you can eat snickers bars all day and as long as you don't go over the calories, you are good. This method isn't always the healthiest.

The newest and probably the best way to lose weight and stay healthy is to eat clean food. Such as the Paleo diet. I eat like a pig and can't get over the 170 mark. I guarantee you that if I tracked my food, I'm close to 500-1000 calories over what I'm supposed to eat.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is more than one way to skin a cat. Yes, you can loose weight if you eat less that your body needs. Bodybuilders have been doing that for years when they cut weight. That generally involves counting calories the old fashion way or using the available programs like FitDay or LoseIt. So in theory you can eat snickers bars all day and as long as you don't go over the calories, you are good. This method isn't always the healthiest.

The newest and probably the best way to lose weight and stay healthy is to eat clean food. Such as the Paleo diet. I eat like a pig and can't get over the 170 mark. I guarantee you that if I tracked my food, I'm close to 500-1000 calories over what I'm supposed to eat.</div></div>

Correct, in my view, paulosantos, that losing body fat the old fashioned way, ie., the Standard American Diet and it's myriad variations - Jenny Craig, FatWatchers :D, etc. is not the healthiest way to go, especially for those who might be on this list whose metabolism is already so f'd up from years of boozing, graining, wheating, smoking, TV watching, all the while involved in cortisol raising occupations that virtually ensures visceral adipose tissue of such proportions that one can only imagine the degree which adipose fat lines their organs.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is more than one way to skin a cat. Yes, you can loose weight if you eat less that your body needs. Bodybuilders have been doing that for years when they cut weight. That generally involves counting calories the old fashion way or using the available programs like FitDay or LoseIt. So in theory you can eat snickers bars all day and as long as you don't go over the calories, you are good. This method isn't always the healthiest.

The newest and probably the best way to lose weight and stay healthy is to eat clean food. Such as the Paleo diet. I eat like a pig and can't get over the 170 mark. I guarantee you that if I tracked my food, I'm close to 500-1000 calories over what I'm supposed to eat.</div></div>

Correct, in my view, paulosantos, that losing body fat the old fashioned way, ie., the Standard American Diet and it's myriad variations - Jenny Craig, FatWatchers :D, etc. is not the healthiest way to go, especially for those who might be on this list whose metabolism is already so f'd up from years of boozing, graining, wheating, smoking, TV watching, all the while involved in cortisol raising occupations that virtually ensures visceral adipose tissue of such proportions that one can only imagine the degree which adipose fat lines their organs.

</div></div>

A perfect example is my co-worker, who is skinny as hell and has diabetes and all kinds of other problems. He thought that if he ate less than he was supposed to, he could have a bowl of ice cream wert night. LOL.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

its not all about calories in = calories out!!

you CAN take in more calories than you expend and lose body fat and gain lean mass , you can also take in less calories than you burn and still build lean mass as lose fat alot faster.

you can be in a calorie defecit and not be in a nutrient defecit which is far more important.

if you're looking to build lean muscle and reduce body fat you need to pay way closer attention to you nutrients your taking in than just the calories.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rawdeal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In short, if you think you can consume more calories than you burn and still lose weight, with all due respect, that's BULLSHIT. </div></div>

I will personally disagree with this all day, every day..... and WIN.
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I have a job where I can sit on my ass or maybe get about 20-30 mins of walking time per day for 5 days a week for 10 hrs a day and then spend absolutely no working out & I can still lose weight. I eat more calories than I use in a day, and lose weight... in a HEALTHY manner.

It's about what, how much, and when you eat. Plain & simple. I lost 25 lbs in about 6 weeks I felt better than in years, heart rate & blood pressure were tits, and was all around healthier than when I started. During this time I did NO exercising.

It's not for everyone and most people do not need to consume the same things that I do.


Your Cardiologist buddies are just plain wrong. Sorry to burst anybody's bubble.


And have a GREAT DAY!!
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Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WildHareMS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rawdeal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In short, if you think you can consume more calories than you burn and still lose weight, with all due respect, that's BULLSHIT. </div></div>

I will personally disagree with this all day, every day..... and WIN.
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I have a job where I can sit on my ass or maybe get about 20-30 mins of walking time per day for 5 days a week for 10 hrs a day and then spend absolutely no working out & I can still lose weight. I eat more calories than I use in a day, and lose weight... in a HEALTHY manner.

It's about what, how much, and when you eat. Plain & simple. I lost 25 lbs in about 6 weeks I felt better than in years, heart rate & blood pressure were tits, and was all around healthier than when I started. During this time I did NO exercising.

It's not for everyone and most people do not need to consume the same things that I do.


Your Cardiologist buddies are just plain wrong. Sorry to burst anybody's bubble.


And have a GREAT DAY!!
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How do you know you are consuming more calories than you use? Just because you weren't exercising and losing weight doesn't mean that you were eating more calories than you were using. I would say this is evidence that your body uses more calories a day than you think, even without the exercise. What happens to the extra calories consumed if they are not used?
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

This just goes to show how much everyone wants the magical diet that works all the time, every time. However, the variations in each person's body chemistry makes this just about impossible. Sure some diets work for large groups of people (Atkins, Mediterranean, etc.), but no diet works for everyone.

If you break it down to the basic basic basic principle of Energy In = Energy Out, you can make sense of it. If I burn 2500 calories in a day but eat 2000, I'll lose weight. Conversely if I eat 3000, I'll gain weight. It doesn't matter if they're carbs, complex carbs, lean protein, etc. Energy In = Energy Out.

The problem with ^^THAT^^ thinking is no one's body burns the same amount of calories due to exercise, muscle mass, and (most importantly) metabolism. I work out regularly and when I diet, I can lose weight slowly. Compare that to my brother-in-law who can lose weight while not working out and eating more than me. It's frustrating, but it is a fact of life.

I always tell people when working out or talking about diet is to find something that works for you. To bring it back to shooting, think of it as 22LR rifles. You gotta try a bunch of different types of ammo to find out what your rifle likes. And while yours might like Eley Black Box, your buddy's might like Remington bulk-pack. Accept your lot in life, face your challenges, and meet your goals.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

problem, sir, it ain't about calories in/calories out. It's about the metabolic effect of the macro-nutrients to which those calories are attached. That old in-out shit is so out of fucking date, nutritionally speaking, it isn't even worth considering. We aren't fat because we over eat and under exercise. We under exercise and over eat because we are fat!!

www.taubes.com
www.wheatbellyblog.com
www.proteinpower.com
www.archevore.com
www.nomnompaleo.com

You really need to get in the 21st century, unlike 99% of physicians and 105% of fucking asshole nutritionists.
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Ask me how I really feel
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Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

Its really funny seeing people on 'the cutting edge' of new studies and technology being VERY sure of their knowledge and then laughing at the people that believe in what was supposedly accepted 30 years ago but not true now.

At best, you might be halfway right, while at worst the next wave of 'experts' will be laughing at you in 30 years saying they have the most right theory. Fast forward 30 years from now and all the guys doing low carb diets are suffering from X disease and the new expert will be loud and proud announcing "well DUH they are getting X diseases, they think they can just ignore a fundamental group and not have consequences"....

Studying in a scientific background has exposed the little known truth that single studies are generally marginal at best. Even putting aside bias and errors, There is SO much more involved in each study then the final published outcome. Correlation is not causation, but unfortunately studies are usually exploited to prove causation.

I believe in the calories in vs calories out because its substantiated by LAWS of physics. All the effects on metabolism the nutrients have that are the basis for all the other diets can be COMPLETELY true and still not prove the in/out theory. Those nutrients effecting metabolism effect the calories out part. So all those other diets based on the actual breakdown of what nutrients to eat rather than how much, are STILL encompassed in the in/out theory. So calling bullshit is really just shouting for attention.

So to clear a couple points up. I'm not arguing against the validity of other diets, and im sure most other people will agree that they might work as well. But what I am saying is it still goes back to calories in and out. Mass/energy conservation applies no matter how many studies you pull from the internet. Being in biomedical engineering, you see many problems need to be overcome when making something, that all stem down to VERY basic process's. This is because we STILL to this day have absolutely NO IDEA how VERY many simple processes in the body work. All the bigger picture things like diets to manipulate your metabolism are just educated guesses at best. Long term outcomes are unknown, and side effects are unknown.

This was not pointed at any particle person and is merely my own opinion. The purpose was to hopefully bring everyone out of the clouds and down to earth, that they might just not be right. Your only one study away from being wrong and laughed at.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">problem, sir, it ain't about calories in/calories out. It's about the metabolic effect of the macro-nutrients to which those calories are attached. That old in-out shit is so out of fucking date, nutritionally speaking, it isn't even worth considering. We aren't fat because we over eat and under exercise. We under exercise and over eat because we are fat!!

www.taubes.com
www.wheatbellyblog.com
www.proteinpower.com
www.archevore.com
www.nomnompaleo.com

You really need to get in the 21st century, unlike 99% of physicians and 105% of fucking asshole nutritionists.
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Ask me how I really feel
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The metabolic effect of the macro-nutrients changes the calories out figure right? So then maybe im missing something.....remind me how your diets disagree with calories in/out theory?
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, JJ, I expect you're right!!
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timelinex, so tell me, why you got the new Corvette, and not the '63???
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Hey dont get me wrong! I'm all for using as much knowledge and new technology to make the best decision. I'm merely commenting on the level of confidence everyone is voicing that their view is ABSOLUTELY right!

I have done the slow carb diet, and would recommend it to anyone thats willing to put up with the limitations. But at the end of the day the only thing that can really be PROVEN is calories in vs calories out, because of how general it is and its basis on conservation laws.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

well, then, sir, since you've asked, i've eliminated wheat and grains beginning Sept 16 '11. My daily caloric intake varies between 1900 and 2100, my resting metabolic rate, directly measured is 1640. I have a desk job and I work out HIT x1 per week. On that protocol I lost 4-5 #s of body fat - as measured by clothing and belt size, between that date and mid-November. I have not changed the ratios. Hmmmm, more in, less out and, voila', fat loss
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Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well, then, sir, since you've asked, i've eliminated wheat and grains beginning Sept 16 '11. My daily caloric intake varies between 1900 and 2100, my resting metabolic rate, directly measured is 1640. I have a desk job and I work out HIT x1 per week. On that protocol I lost 4-5 #s of body fat - as measured by clothing and belt size, between that date and mid-November. I have not changed the ratios. Hmmmm, more in, less out and, voila', fat loss
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woah woah, what your claiming seems to be different than what is being argued here. What you did is gain muscle and lose fat. At the end of the day you GAINED overall weight correct?

when I was 17 I was trying to gain muscle as fast as possible, and I ate ALOT of calories and actually lost fat %. Mind you, that its not all the 'healthy stuff' you guys advice. I'm talking about ALOT of chicken, milk, white carbs and etc.. With a good weight lifting plan I gained muscle and stayed the same in fat which actually made my body fat % go down and made me more cut(no magic, just simple math).

Notice the Original poster and myself used the words WEIGHT loss and not fat loss. I know i know its semantics, but in this situation its very important.

I think most people that are for the calories in/out talk acknowledge that its for general purpose weight control. In the average overweight person weightloss correlates strongly to fat loss, even though some of it is muscle. So to someone weighing 300 lb's, The most rudimentary way which is still very effective is to start by cutting calories to good levels, before even looking at metabolic effects of having 30g of carbs instead of 10g. If you have specific athletic goals or your trying to cut below 12% bodyfat then that is where the more advance stuff matters.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

No, I gained no muscle! I lost body fat; one does not gain muscle by sitting on his ass at a computer 12 hours a day and working out for 12 minutes on a Sunday. and NO, I did NOT gain weight. I LOST weight, and the weight loss was in excess visceral adipose tissue! Last time I checked: belt notch at two and weight at 164 +/-; now belt notch at 3.5 and weight is 160+/- Last time I checked as well, 164-160 = 4
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Look, sir, I don't care what you argue. YMMV, and other folks' MMV. When I look around at the obesity epidemic in our culture and European as well (have you checked out the obesity in China, Korean, Phillipines, Hong Kong, lately), and with everybody getting the endorsement of the fucking Federal agencies about "how to eat," and they've been doing "how to eat" all these years and obesity has been synchronously elevating, well, shit.

Oh, and don't give me that crap about correlation and causation. There is a very high correlation between water coming out of the spout in my kitchen sink faucet and my turning the faucet knob. I'd venture to say that the faucet knob turning is directly and highly correlated enough with water coming out of that spout to regard that my turning that facet knob had something to do with it. Indeed, causation is only a special case of correlation.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, I gained no muscle! I lost body fat; one does not gain muscle by sitting on his ass at a computer 12 hours a day and working out for 12 minutes on a Sunday. and NO, I did NOT gain weight. I LOST weight, and the weight loss was in excess visceral adipose tissue! Last time I checked: belt notch at two and weight at 164 +/-; now belt notch at 3.5 and weight is 160+/- Last time I checked as well, 164-160 = 4
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Look, sir, I don't care what you argue. YMMV, and other folks' MMV. When I look around at the obesity epidemic in our culture and European as well (have you checked out the obesity in China, Korean, Phillipines, Hong Kong, lately), and with everybody getting the endorsement of the fucking Federal agencies about "how to eat," and they've been doing "how to eat" all these years and obesity has been synchronously elevating, well, shit.

Oh, and don't give me that crap about correlation and causation. There is a very high correlation between water coming out of the spout in my kitchen sink faucet and my turning the faucet knob. I'd venture to say that the faucet knob turning is directly and highly correlated enough with water coming out of that spout to regard that my turning that facet knob had something to do with it. Indeed, causation is only a special case of correlation.

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Simple, you didn't calculate the calories in correctly or more likely calculate the calories out correctly. You were losing calories somewhere, even if it meant whole foods was coming out while going to the bathroom, they were coming out somehow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

What goes in must come out. Look there is multiples ways it could have been done, but none of the way would defy the laws of phyiscs.

I'm done trying to prove my point, as the laws of physics isn't what I'm trying to argue. I stated my opinion, you are more than welcome to have yours!
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

Well, after reading the first 10 or so posts, I came to the same conclusion that paulosantos did: there are dozens of different ways to skin any number of cats.

As a wrestler (5' 9" weighing 145 with an average of 6% body fat, running a 19:35.2 5k and a 180 bench), I am well aware if the ins and outs of weight loss, healthy and non.

My conclusion: whole grains, eat more fruits and vegis, limit processed sugars to as close to none as possible, reduced saturated fats, and get lean protein. If you are working out or exercising or walking hills all day, you NEED protien to repair the damaged muscle. The leaner the better, which is why I prefer venison WAY over processed beef (and it tastes better
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). Carbs: natural sugars in fruits, whole grains in bread, pasta, cereal, and so on, and fiber (also more than you think you need) from vegis and other sources. Stay hydrated throughout the day to flush everything through, as well as to keep hunger at bay for short periods of time.

A Marine wrestler from a camp I attended over the summer taught me this trick: when exercising, drink warm water rather than cold; the cold water puts your innards into shock (effectively) and slows down the metabolism, whereas warm water gets absorbed easier and keeps your bowels moving right along.

When it is cutting time, I keep a log of EVERYTHING I put in my mouth. This helps me guilt-trip myself into eating right, and by weighing myself before and after practice or workouts I can determine how much water to take in to mix with carbs and everything else to refuel.

This is my plan, it works for me, and I am sorry but there is not much you can say to change my opionion. To me it is not about calories, specifically; it is about what makes up the calories. I am still working on the "when" part of eating the "what", but I am sure someone will chime in with that if they haven't already.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well, then, sir, since you've asked, i've eliminated wheat and grains beginning Sept 16 '11. My daily caloric intake varies between 1900 and 2100, my resting metabolic rate, directly measured is 1640. I have a desk job and I work out HIT x1 per week. On that protocol I lost 4-5 #s of body fat - as measured by clothing and belt size, between that date and mid-November. I have not changed the ratios. Hmmmm, more in, less out and, voila', fat loss
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Of course there are exceptions, If you are you eating few enough carbs per day you might be sending your body into ketosis, which basically gives a boost to your metabolism because your body is eating itself, the basic idea behind the Atkins diet. You may want to look up some of the side effects of ketosis though.

Also how accurately can you measure your resting metabolic rate, that has to be a major estimate?
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dreamlander</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course there are exceptions, If you are you eating few enough carbs per day you might be sending your body into ketosis, which basically gives a boost to your metabolism because your body is eating itself, the basic idea behind the Atkins diet. You may want to look up some of the side effects of ketosis though.

Also how accurately can you measure your resting metabolic rate, that has to be a major estimate? </div></div>

If your eating fruits you will not be in ketosis , even after you drop into ketosis just eating an apple or banana will knock you out of ketosis.
a true Keto diet requires you to get about 60% of you calories from FAT not just high protein , a high protein moderate fat diet like that which Dave Palumbo advises actualy forces the body to make glycogen from protein (glycogenesis) on this diet high intensisty cardio and long training sessions are not advised as the body will start to attack the muscle for readly available protein , guys who do an intermintant fasting type diet arnt realy advised to use a non keto , zero carb diet as it can cause muscle wasting
My current diet is (very close to) 425g protein, 300g carbs and 200g fat a day
60g of both carbs and protein and 25 gr fat per meal for the first 5 meals
last two meals are just 60g protein and 30g fat. I'm able to build a little muscle and keep bodyfat reasonable low (10-12%)
when i start to cut for a diet i will drop all carbs and add 10g protein per meal , do this for ten days then carbs up with 4 meals then return to the diet.
as bodyfat starts getting low (6-7% range) fats will be reduced some and carb days will start getting closer together.

the body is a very very complex machine , it doesent like to be excessivly lean as that make it less effecient in survival , dieting to get leaner than the vast majority is like a very complex chess match and generaly has to be tweeked a little each time as the body will learn and fight back.

their is no set in stone calculation for getting your accurate caloric needs because it changes for day to day , the idea of "calories in = calories out" might work for a while but will be short lived. Ive said it before if you consume 3000 cals a day at a 33% ratio and this is what it take for your body to maintain its size and BF% , if you cut 500 cals a day that makes 3500 cals a 7 day week (which is what makes up 1 pound of fat) in theroy you should lose one pound of fat per week but we know you can isolate just fat loss. with a healthy diet that has enough fiber from veggies and say some grains their will be a reasonable amout of waste "leftovers" so you wont be using all of the 33% of each macro nutrient so in actuality your body doesent use ALL of those 300 calories.
ANYWAY , Now you know what you calories needs are , lets replace you healthy diet with 2500 cals for Bluebell chocolate icecream , it has all three macro nutrients but the ratios are way differant with refined sugars being a major source of those cals.
Now we are still in a 500 calorie defecit so we should still lose weight right?
in theory and the laws of physics yes we SHOULD and possible might over a very short period but soon the boddy is going to be storing the carbs and excess fats away like a chipmunk getting a late start for winter. The reason is that the body uses carbs as its first choice of fuel , especialy simple carbs , and it is a very very effecient fuel so it doent take to much to supply the energy we need so the excess calories are both wasted out and stored as fat.
Now lets ship you 500 pounds of seal meat and fat and feed you 2500 cals a day of 75% fat and 25% protein , you will lose weight on this diet the entire time your on it becuase the body does not like to use fat as fuel and contrary to common belief doesnt like to store fat as fat , its hard for convert the fat to a storable state so you will waste alot more out , this is a big reason the "Big Mac diet" works do that same diet with frenchfries and coke you will be on next seasons "biggest loser"

their are no such things as "esential carbs" you can live a long healthy life eating good fats a proteins and zero carbs , proetin and fat are esential to your existance , you cut all your fats out and eat nothing but carbs and protein and you will eventual die from it. You can even starve by eating only very lean meats its called rabbit starvation. You can greatly reduce you calories by even 50% and maintain weightloss for a long period if you eat plenty dark greens as they are actualy negitive calories , meaning if you only eat raw spinach as your only food source you will starve faster that if you ate nothing becuase it takes more calories to digest the food than they offer.

Sorry for the long post but the whole calorie in vs calorie out thing is not as cut and dry as people make it sound , its like the people who say you cant gain muscle if you are in a caloric defecit , thats total horse shit just because your in a calorie defecit doesnt mean your in a nutrient deffecit and it works the same way you can have a excess of calories and not add muscle because the needed nutrients arnt their
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

there is a ton of merit to what Copdoc and JJones are saying, I have had amazing results eating Paleo/Primal/Natural foods. I was diagnosed with type two diabetes and was at 198 june of last year; I am at 153 and no trace of DIabetes, cholesterol is down triglycerides down energy through the roof muscle mass growing fat shrinking.

I can not say enough about how this eating strategy has done for me, and how healthy I have been since changing.

-I had the starting symptoms of IBS, that is gone
-Daily Heart burn (2-3 tums a day) I have not eaten a tums or heartburn in 6 months
- High A1c gone
-blood sugar is managed better than someone on meds
- now afternoon energy crash
- all around much healthier

My MD is amazed, and researching and recommending this strategy to his other patents

I recommend to people to screw the 1930-1950s thinking of Nutrition, and get and look at what our bodies are telling us, with obesity, Type 2 Diabetes, cancer etc almost all the modern chronic diseases are linked to diet.


 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

To touch on what JJ hit in his last post the proteins and fats take far more energy to simply turn them into a usable energy source. Its easy to simply say a gram of fat is 9cal, protein 4 and carbs 4 but the body does not simply burn them that way.

A simple way of looking at how the body works for energy can be observed in how ATP is generated in the Krebs cycle. In an aerobic phase it will use glucose and produce 34-38 ATP molecules, simply switching to anaerobic energy production you only get 4 units of ATP from the same amount of glucose. Its pretty clear that how and when you exercise are just important of how and when you eat. As others have mention you really need to experiment and find out what works for you.

I know I tried eating 6-8 times a day and just did not work for me. I start with a heavy breakfast, protein shake about 1pm and a moderate dinner at 6pm. Its working for me and thats the most important thing than can be offered, if any program is to nasty and you wont stick with it the benifits will not be observed.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

I realize an hour long video may be a little long for a lot of people to watch but this is Gary Taubes explaining much of what is being argued about here.

For those who are blindly arguing the "physics" of weight loss he has some very clear words for you.

As to Cardiac Surgeons being learned about diet and nutrition, guess again.

I challenge you to watch this and still try to convince me your cardiac surgeons know jack shit about nutrition or that simply restricting calories will result in weight loss.

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Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">problem, sir, it ain't about calories in/calories out. It's about the metabolic effect of the macro-nutrients to which those calories are attached. That old in-out shit is so out of fucking date, nutritionally speaking, it isn't even worth considering. We aren't fat because we over eat and under exercise. We under exercise and over eat because we are fat!!

www.taubes.com
www.wheatbellyblog.com
www.proteinpower.com
www.archevore.com
www.nomnompaleo.com

You really need to get in the 21st century, unlike 99% of physicians and 105% of fucking asshole nutritionists.
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Ask me how I really feel
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The http://www.taubes.com/ seems dead.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boyscout157</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> A Marine wrestler from a camp I attended over the summer taught me this trick: when exercising, drink warm water rather than cold; the cold water puts your innards into shock (effectively) and slows down the metabolism, whereas warm water gets absorbed easier and keeps your bowels moving right along.</div></div>

There is no evidence that this is correct. What cold water does help is internally cool you down.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boyscout157</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> A Marine wrestler from a camp I attended over the summer taught me this trick: when exercising, drink warm water rather than cold; the cold water puts your innards into shock (effectively) and slows down the metabolism, whereas warm water gets absorbed easier and keeps your bowels moving right along.</div></div>

There is no evidence that this is correct. What cold water does help is internally cool you down. </div></div>

Their are several lines of thought ,
1) cold water will cool you off forcing the body to "ramp up" to heat itself making the metabolism run faster
2) drinking cold water slow digestion making it harder to lose weight.

I have seen results where labs did this over weeks with a dozen people and their was no conclusive exidance that said it helped one way or another
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boyscout157</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> A Marine wrestler from a camp I attended over the summer taught me this trick: when exercising, drink warm water rather than cold; the cold water puts your innards into shock (effectively) and slows down the metabolism, whereas warm water gets absorbed easier and keeps your bowels moving right along.</div></div>

There is no evidence that this is correct. What cold water does help is internally cool you down. </div></div>

Their are several lines of thought ,
1) cold water will cool you off forcing the body to "ramp up" to heat itself making the metabolism run faster
2) drinking cold water slow digestion making it harder to lose weight.

I have seen results where labs did this over weeks with a dozen people and their was no conclusive exidance that said it helped one way or another </div></div>

To add, during periods of intense exercise or activity you have very little bowel activity whatsoever. Your body recognizes the activity level as a priority and thus directs blood flow to those muscles doing work. This is the reason most supplement drinks and exercise goos rely on water and sugar to transport the nutrients as these are taken in through the stomach and the very first section of the small intestine. Any lower than that and the nutrients would not pass as the bowel has limited blood flow and activity during exercise.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

go and read "the paleo solution" by robb wolf. get a copy for each of your surgeon buddies. as was said on here earlier, if you have to fck with it to eat it, dont' put it in your mouth. protein from animals, veggies, fruits, nuts and seeds. its all you need. eat enough protein, enough fat, fill the rest with veggies. i have my first 6 pack abs at 30, i could beat the hell out of my 21 year old self. actually, i feel a lot like my 21 year old self these days...
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

I recently started watching what I eat; no breads or processed sugar. In 3 weeks I've lost 15 pounds. I'm also feeling better, I have more energy and don't feel tired by late afternoon. I now have energy to exercise. Today I jogged 2 miles.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

good on you blue635, and, depending upon your age, you could be doing yourself an enormous health favor down the line (if you're young), and correcting some major metabolic issues if you, like I am, are old.
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keep it up. New book out does a really nice job of explaining the relationships among, diet, exercise and fitness: The Smarter Science of Slim by Johnathan Bailor. Just looking at this guy's pic gives him credibility.
 
Re: Best and easiest diet advice -EVER!!!

something i found that helps me, since i have a seemingly bottomless stomach is to find fruits and veggies i like and use them as filler. So before lunch and dinner i snack on carrots, green pepper, apples among other things.

It really helps me cut down on how much i consume during the meal....its hard to stop when it is so good
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