Best ballistic calculator currently?

[hafejd30]

I have StrelokPro but since its ban looking to switch to whatever is the best go to now. My StrelokPro still works but I assume at some point it wont

What’s the “go to” easiest to use currently?

I downloaded the hornady app but seeing what else I should consider. Not shooting prs so a paired system with a kestrel isn’t really needed. Something similar to StrelokPro is what I’m after

Currently I use

Leica 2800
StrelokPro
Kestrel 3500

 

[Long Range 338]

Geo Ballistics and Trasol are good options if you don't want to use AB

 

[Taylorbok]

This is the best currently.

StackPath

4DoF works fine, I had some glitches with it a while ago but they are allegedly fixed. I found this app pleasant to use and it has a bunch of features no one else offers, I still use the mean radius in there group size analysis often.

I'm not a fan of the AB mobile app, the UI frustrates me.

How far are you shooting?

EDIT: Once you buy a kestrel you'll never look back

 

[Hickswr]

GeoBallistics

 

[hafejd30]

This is the best currently.

StackPath

4DoF works fine, I had some glitches with it a while ago but they are allegedly fixed. I found this app pleasant to use and it has a bunch of features no one else offers, I still use the mean radius in there group size analysis often.

I'm not a fan of the AB mobile app, the UI frustrates me.

How far are you shooting?

EDIT: Once you buy a kestrel you'll never look back

Out to a mile. Mainly inside 1200 yards

 

[hafejd30]

I’m playing with the hornady app right now and got my drop matched up with my StrelokPro fairly easily.

 

[texastonk]

 

[LastShot300]

ColdBore from Patagonia Ballistics, and TRASOL, which runs on Patagonia's proprietary ballistics engine. Excellent out-of-the-box ELR accuracy.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

The most accurate system available is Applied Ballistics. Trusted in more devices, law enforcement, and military units around the world than any other system. We also have an entirely new app, with new features coming here in a couple months. I can't say what new tools you guys are getting, but they are going to make life all around much easier.

We are currently working on vastly expanding the rimfire bullet library (Just talked with Eley, Fiochi, and Aguila last week who are sending in their new to come bullets).

We are also getting ready to launch an air rifle modeling system using RADAR data. I am particularly excited to see how Eleys new pellets perform.

 

[Taylorbok]

The most accurate system available is Applied Ballistics. Trusted in more devices, law enforcement, and military units around the world than any other system. We also have an entirely new app, with new features coming here in a couple months. I can't say what new tools you guys are getting, but they are going to make life all around much easier.

We are currently working on vastly expanding the rimfire bullet library (Just talked with Eley, Fiochi, and Aguila last week who are sending in their new to come bullets).

We are also getting ready to launch an air rifle modeling system using RADAR data. I am particularly excited to see how Eleys new pellets perform.

New App would be cool. I default to 4DoF if I need to run a quick profile for someone.

 

[Baron23]

I like 4DOF and it’s easy to use....and free

 

[ZiaHunter]

Have several ballistics calculators including Kestrels. Still use the Kestrels with AB and provides good solutions but still my most trusted solver is FFS. IIRC FFS and Coldbore use the same ballistic engine. Several years ago we ran a head to head test between Coldbore and FFS at Gunsite. The solutions were nearly identical out to 2200. The downside is Blaine is no longer supporing FFS and the operating system and hardware are obsolete. Cory is working on migrating FFS to smartphones but haven't kept track of how that is going. Hope my Juno and Nomad don't die on me.

 

[solidwater]

Highly recommend Applied Ballistics.

 

[USMC22]

Really looking forward to the Rimfire expansions

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Really looking forward to the Rimfire expansions

We have rimfire, and pellet gun expansions coming.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Have several ballistics calculators including Kestrels. Still use the Kestrels with AB and provides good solutions but still my most trusted solver is FFS. IIRC FFS and Coldbore use the same ballistic engine. Several years ago we ran a head to head test between Coldbore and FFS at Gunsite. The solutions were nearly identical out to 2200. The downside is Blaine is no longer supporing FFS and the operating system and hardware are obsolete. Cory is working on migrating FFS to smartphones but haven't kept track of how that is going. Hope my Juno and Nomad don't die on me.

Genesis Ballistics works quite nicely for the few who managed to purchase it...

Shame the Patagonia guys won't move on with the times and still only support "windows mobile" and "windows phone" both of which are ancient forgotten history.

All I can take a guess at is that never quite understood how licencing moved on from being tied to a device, to being tied to an account. Who knows but they sure have left of lot of money on the table that everyone else picked up with other apps.

 

[USMC22]

We have rimfire, and pellet gun expansions coming.

I read that in your post above and got excited. Thanks Doc!

 

[Taylorbok]

We have rimfire, and pellet gun expansions coming.

Just watched a couple pod casts about this. That’ll be sweet

 

[CK1.0]

IMHO Strelok Pro is still the best by far (even with the headaches of loading it onto a newer iPhone and some of the glitches he can’t fix due to the ban).

I wish there was something better, but I’ve tried everything else mentioned so far, and there’s still a hole in the marketplace.

AB is the worst and most frustrating IMO, so much snake-oil in there, stuff trying to cater to fudds who don’t know what they’re doing or newbies who don’t know any better, yet it somehow manages to be simultaneously over-complicated and semi-unusable for practical folks who are just trying to get their dope. An endless library of projectiles is neat but not a real feature.

Since AB controls most of the market share as far as selling their wares to the masses and aligning themselves with other products in the sport, I sincerely hope they'd consider using some of their resources to at least offer a streamlined version of their calculator solver aimed squarely at the seasoned guy who can enter all of his/her own data (height over bore, twist, bullet length, etc) and get the results they're looking for on their own. A lot of us can make our own custom drag models and don't need any of that other stuff, but we can't make super easy-to-use UI and Apps that spit out sick target cards that Bluetooth to our watch and let us get our dope in 1-2mins so we can get back on glass...

Best target card in the game (currently):

 

[Taylorbok]

IMHO Strelok Pro is still the best by far (even with the headaches of loading it onto a newer iPhone and some of the glitches he can’t fix due to the ban).

I wish there was something better, but I’ve tried everything else mentioned so far, and there’s still a hole in the marketplace.

AB is the worst and most frustrating IMO, so much snake-oil in there, stuff trying to cater to fudds who don’t know what they’re doing or newbies who don’t know any better, it somehow manages to be simultaneously over-complicated and semi-unusable for practical folks who are just trying to get their dope. An endless library of projectiles is neat but not a real feature.

Strelok works for sure.
There’s no “snake oil” with AB. I do agree the app is hard to use but CDM and PDM are definitely superior to G7 but most people can find a relatively simple way to make their dope line up for their required distance. The thing that really impressed me was I stretched out to 3k yards and with my PDM the dope was 100% bang on with absolutely no truing. The reality tho is a Kestrel is easier to use than the app and even the Kestrel can be cumbersome but it’s a great tool

 

[CK1.0]

The snake oil I'm talking about is that the math is math and it's free... if you have the distance to confirm the dope it spits out is legit, you have the distance to do it yourself lol. PDMs for ELR I can 100% see a need, for everybody else, IDK? I just wish they'd put their energy into making the interface simpler and better.

 

[Long Range 338]

The snake oil I'm talking about is that the math is math and it's free... if you have the distance to confirm the dope it spits out is legit, you have the distance to do it yourself lol. PDMs for ELR I can 100% see a need, for everybody else, IDK? I just wish they'd put their energy into making the interface simpler and better.

Must be the way our individual brains work…. I find AB and 4DOF to be very intuitive the way the interface flows, and Strelok to be less intuitive.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

EDIT: Once you buy a kestrel you'll never look back

What He Said ^^^

 

[KYAggie]

We also have an entirely new app, with new features coming here in a couple months. I can't say what new tools you guys are getting, but they are going to make life all around much easier.

Does anyone know if the new app is out from AB?

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Does anyone know if the new app is out from AB?

It is not out yet, we are going through the new features one by one and taking feedback and working on them individually so that we can smooth them out.

guy who can enter all of his/her own data (height over bore, twist, bullet length, etc)

You can already enter this data in our app on your own.

 

[CK1.0]

Ok. Maybe I'm not giving the AB App a fair shake? (It has been ~2 years since I last messed with it...)

@DocUSMCRetired, does the AB App running on an Apple iPhone work with a WeatherFLOW weather meter? (IIRC that was Android-only, but that was a while ago.)

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Ok. Maybe I'm not giving the AB App a fair shake? (It has been ~2 years since I last messed with it...)

@DocUSMCRetired, does the AB App running on an Apple iPhone work with a WeatherFLOW weather meter? (IIRC that was Android-only, but that was a while ago.)

Neither of them do at this time. They are set to work with Calypso once update is released.

 

[avidflyer]

Neither of them do at this time. They are set to work with Calypso once update is released.

How many meters will it pick up?

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

How many meters will it pick up?

10 or less.

 

[CK1.0]

In the name of trying to ween myself off Strelok Pro, I've been playing around with Hornady 4DOF and am starting to warm up to it.

It has some warts for sure, but it integrates really well with a Weatherflow weathermeter (better than Strelok Pro). Strangely, it works better with the paired weather meter than without, as there's no option of grabbing local weather off the web via GPS/Location Services and entering weather data manually feels clunky coming from Strelok Pro or others that load weather data automatically.

That said, the more I use it the more I'm starting to get more comfortable with it, and I'm beginning to see why Orgain and some other seasoned guys choose to use it, as once you get used to the clunky interface, it does do what you need it to do.

I haven't given AB another try yet since I no longer have a Kestrel. I prefer using the Weatherflow since it's simpler and only does one thing, and with the Kestrel I still did everything on the phone anyway.

 

[Taylorbok]

I haven't given AB another try yet since I no longer have a Kestrel. I prefer using the Weatherflow since it's simpler and only does one thing, and with the Kestrel I still did everything on the phone anyway.

Curious why you were using your phone with the kestrel? Once my kestrel is out I have no reason for my phone.

 

[CK1.0]

Curious why you were using your phone with the kestrel? Once my kestrel is out I have no reason for my phone.

I hate using the standalone Kestrel. I find all the button pressing and scrolling through the thing clunky and I often screw it up or just end up second-guessing what I hit the first time around and end up having to double-check every press. I know some guys love it, and can run them quickly, but not me.

Just about any phone App makes seeing all one's parameters easier, often on one easier-to-see screen.

 

[Taylorbok]

I hate using the standalone Kestrel. I find all the button pressing and scrolling through the thing clunky and I often screw it up or just end up second-guessing what I hit the first time around and end up having to double-check every press. I know some guys love it, and can run them quickly, but not me.

Just about any phone App makes seeing all one's parameters easier, often on one easier-to-see screen.

IMO that’s a glitch in your process. Basically a set it and forget it deal. Once all your info is entered let it gather enviros (or lock it and update it every now and then depending where you keep kestrel) once your system is dialed just enter distance (or pair range finder) and let it eat.

 

[CK1.0]

IMO that’s a glitch in your process. Basically a set it and forget it deal. Once all your info is entered let it gather enviros (or lock it and update it every now and then depending where you keep kestrel) once your system is dialed just enter distance (or pair range finder) and let it eat.

No glitch, just a different way of doing it. The only thing the Kestrel has over a phone is maybe its usefulness in the rain, everything is harder to do on the standalone Kestrel with its small screen and limited buttons than it is on a phone.

If I want to hit a target (at say 750 yards), I'd rather just use a keypad to type "750" than hold down a button and wait for it to scroll, usually go past it, and then have to scroll back lol.

I have thought of buying another regular 5700 to have in my pack just for rainproof purposes, but the Target card mode and using different Sector's actual usefulness on the Elite is sort of a joke, as even when using the LINK App to help things along, it's way more convoluted than it needs to be or is on most any other phone App.

For a guy who just wants to enter a distance and then write on a card, a Kestrel is just fine. But, I like to get all my targets for all my stages ready to go before the match even starts so all I have to do is update weather and maybe add finer things like DoF and/or slope/angle if I want.

 

[Taylorbok]

No glitch, just a different way of doing it. The only thing the Kestrel has over a phone is maybe its usefulness in the rain, everything is harder to do on the standalone Kestrel with its small screen and limited buttons than it is on a phone.

If I want to hit a target (at say 750 yards), I'd rather just use a keypad to type "750" than hold down a button and wait for it to scroll, usually go past it, and then have to scroll back lol.

I have thought of buying another regular 5700 to have in my pack just for rainproof purposes, but the Target card mode and using different Sector's actual usefulness on the Elite is sort of a joke, as even when using the LINK App to help things along, it's way more convoluted than it needs to be or is on most any other phone App.

For a guy who just wants to enter a distance and then write on a card, a Kestrel is just fine. But, I like to get all my targets for all my stages ready to go before the match even starts so all I have to do is update weather and maybe add finer things like DoF and/or slope/angle if I want.

I do agree the scrolling for distance sucks, That's honestly why I got a range finder that has the option to link to a kestrel to acquire distances.
Next time I shoot a match I am going to try setting up all the stages in the kestrel before hand and see how that works.

For the most part I keep my Kestrel on a wind vane for WD and keep enviro's live, the matches I shoot are KRG and NF so 700-2500 yards so having live enviros is nice, if there's a change and you forget to account for it could cause a miss.

I've had the Kestrel for a bit over a year now so I'm surprised they haven't come out with a new upgraded version with a key pad. LOL

 

[taliv]

Fwiw I have used shooter ballistics which I think has litz math. It’s very fast and simple and good out to reasonable distances.

I never wanted ballistics data in my kestrel because I also find that interface extremely annoying.

I like to look at a range card like looking at a map. I want to see the streets around me not just the street I’m on. I just stare at it for a min and get a feel for and remember how much it’s changing per 5 or 10 yards. Useful if for example my target runs 20 yards and stops. Etc.

So getting from off to on to the app to a range card as fast as possible is how I grade usability of an app.

Once you get in 4dof it’s ok but has a long splash screen, a login screen, and maybe 3 other screens before you get to your data. Very annoying. Shooter is just open the app, click rifle click ammo click range card. (Assuming you recently opened it and entered atmospherics it remembers your rifle and ammo so you’re really only one click in the app from the range card)

 

[Ingo Ratsdorf]

Re Patagonia, looks like it's a dead fish in the water.

I have been using it for a few years but the UI remained ancient, the version never changed, although they were saying they were updating it.
Just been looking on their website, tried to check for updates but the download link is not working. Tried to contact them but the contact form is not working either.

Sad, so much potential.

 

[LastShot300]

Re Patagonia, looks like it's a dead fish in the water.

I have been using it for a few years but the UI remained ancient, the version never changed, although they were saying they were updating it.
Just been looking on their website, tried to check for updates but the download link is not working. Tried to contact them but the contact form is not working either.

Sad, so much potential.

Can't argue with your personal experience...but it's far from being true and actually sounds quite weird. Links have been changed. On the other hand, just drop them an email (check the page contact form or try [email protected]) and that's it. I've been running Patagonia for many years and at least got two updates yearly. UI is the best IMHO. Being a Windows-based software don't see any need for a change, which they did anyway. Current version is 21. Piece of advice, read the Manual before asking for support. My personal experience over the years, even before CB 1.0 is truly great in both accuracy and number of features.

 

[Ronws]

@hafejd30

I had not contributed yet. I seem to have most of the apps. From the free "Ballistic Buddy" to the AB at $30 ish. I have Strelok Pro and 4DOF.

To me, both Strelok Pro and 4DOF are very intuitive. SP has the advantage of a library of targets and can also match up the real values of your reticle based on ammo info and scope and height over bore, etcetera. Easy to adjust for MV without a chrono but you need to get to at least 200 yards for it to be valid. You had set an MV but it required a different MOA or MIL setting than the app provided. Input the elevation you actually dialed and it calculates a new MV that you can decide to use.

I like Hornady 4DOF, especially when using their ammo. They have a gigantor library of info on their cartridges. And if you are using something else, they still have the more generic calculator you can use. And they have group analysis built in so you don't have to get ballistic-x.

Also, I like the zero angle idea. Input all the environmental data of when you zero it and include height and windage offset from your zeroed group and it saves it and you don't have to re-zero at a new location. You simple "edit environment" with the data of where you are and it adjusts what you need. And you can us the in-app shooting angle if shooting up or downhill. However, this is only useful past 100 yards.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I'm kinda "bumping" this thread as I also am at the point of needing to upgrade my iPhone. I'm a long-time, happy Strelok Pro user; I tried following the instructions for using iMazing to "force" a migration but the new iMazing version now charges far more than I'll pay for the required export function and my hardcore-developer-Apple-geek friends advise against it anyway (I'm a retired computer engineer so I asked for their opinion). Read my experience here.

I've played with 4DOF on&off for awhile and have listened to the Hornady podcasts about it. My dislikes/questions re AB:

• Navigation through setting up new rifles/loads is, to me, clunky. As has been noted, starting the app is a pita with multiple screens before you get to a rifle/load. DOES AB START AT THE LAST RIFLE/LOAD USED?
• Every.Single.Combination of rifle/load requires a top-level entry. I only have four precision rifles in the safe right now, but I have at least half a dozen loads for every one of them - so that top-level list is too damned long and therefore ridiculously cumbersome. They need to do a Strelok Pro approach - choose the rifle and then the loads are available for selection under that rifle. DOES AB NEST LOADS UNDER RIFLES?
• I was able to make centerfire loads match observed data pretty easily. Rimfire? Pfft. It's hard to find the rimfire loads in the 4DOF library... and then it shows (or it showed last time I checked) different ballistics for available Lapua SKUs even though the bullets are freaking identical. There is, or was, a Hornady guy here who agreed that the 4DOF rimfire entries were not really useful. This is a big deal for me - does AB do a good job with rimfire?

@DocUSMCRetired has been forthcoming with info about the new AB release.... would be interested in hearing his input on the above questions before spending the price of two boxes of Center-X for AB...

 

[roon775]

Applied Ballistics for sure. That said, find an instructor near you and take a beginner class so you understand the fundamentals, where you're getting your calculator inputs from and what they mean, and how to apply it's outputs downrange.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Applied Ballistics for sure. That said, find an instructor near you and take a beginner class so you understand the fundamentals, where you're getting your calculator inputs from and what they mean, and how to apply it's outputs downrange.

Here's a little advice for you: don't use your first post to advise someone who's been shooting 6-12 matches a year since 2018 to find a beginner class.

 

[taliv]

• Navigation through setting up new rifles/loads is, to me, clunky. As has been noted, starting the app is a pita with multiple screens before you get to a rifle/load. DOES AB START AT THE LAST RIFLE/LOAD USED?
• Every.Single.Combination of rifle/load requires a top-level entry. I only have four precision rifles in the safe right now, but I have at least half a dozen loads for every one of them - so that top-level list is too damned long and therefore ridiculously cumbersome. They need to do a Strelok Pro approach - choose the rifle and then the loads are available for selection under that rifle. DOES AB NEST LOADS UNDER RIFLES?

this is my biggest gripe too. love the data, but UI and data structure is annoying. hope they fix that.
(for clarity, once you click through the 47 screens to get to the calc, it does have my last used "bullet" (which is retarded since it really means bullet, velocity, twist, scope height over bore, and all the other parameters lumped into "bullet"))

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

I'm kinda "bumping" this thread as I also am at the point of needing to upgrade my iPhone. I'm a long-time, happy Strelok Pro user; I tried following the instructions for using iMazing to "force" a migration but the new iMazing version now charges far more than I'll pay for the required export function and my hardcore-developer-Apple-geek friends advise against it anyway (I'm a retired computer engineer so I asked for their opinion). Read my experience here.

I've played with 4DOF on&off for awhile and have listened to the Hornady podcasts about it. My dislikes/questions re AB:

• Navigation through setting up new rifles/loads is, to me, clunky. As has been noted, starting the app is a pita with multiple screens before you get to a rifle/load. DOES AB START AT THE LAST RIFLE/LOAD USED?
• Every.Single.Combination of rifle/load requires a top-level entry. I only have four precision rifles in the safe right now, but I have at least half a dozen loads for every one of them - so that top-level list is too damned long and therefore ridiculously cumbersome. They need to do a Strelok Pro approach - choose the rifle and then the loads are available for selection under that rifle. DOES AB NEST LOADS UNDER RIFLES?
• I was able to make centerfire loads match observed data pretty easily. Rimfire? Pfft. It's hard to find the rimfire loads in the 4DOF library... and then it shows (or it showed last time I checked) different ballistics for available Lapua SKUs even though the bullets are freaking identical. There is, or was, a Hornady guy here who agreed that the 4DOF rimfire entries were not really useful. This is a big deal for me - does AB do a good job with rimfire?

@DocUSMCRetired has been forthcoming with info about the new AB release.... would be interested in hearing his input on the above questions before spending the price of two boxes of Center-X for AB...

We have completely changed ours, to simply have a search bar. So now you can just start typing what you want in the bar, and it will pick it out for you.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

@taliv you can still long scroll if you want to.