What is the best ELR rifle/caliber to build or buy? I was thinking a 338 lapua or 375 cheytac. Any opinions on best caliber, best rifle company. I only want to buy or build one ELR that I won’t outgrow. Trying to stay under $10k for rifle only. Thanks for all your help.
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Best ELR Rifle Info
- Thread starter Jlawsonb16
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If you've got that kind of scratch, and you want to avoid getting locked in with the wrong caliber, the answer is something like a Barrett MRAD that provides total flexibility in barrel selection. Mine has barrels in 6.5-CM, 300-WM, 300-PRC, and 338-LM ... all of which I've shot out to a mile, and could shoot further with the big barrels but that's the limit of my local range. I LOVE my MRAD, and it takes me all of 5-minutes to swap out a barrel ... something I regularly do at the range.
If you have the place to shoot ELR you’ll almost certainly out grow a 338 and 375.
I’d be looking at a .416, .420 or 460 for one and done.
I’m pretty happy with a 338 right now for out to 4100 yards but am building a 375.
If I find a nice 5000 yard spot then a four something will get built.
I’d be looking at a .416, .420 or 460 for one and done.
I’m pretty happy with a 338 right now for out to 4100 yards but am building a 375.
If I find a nice 5000 yard spot then a four something will get built.
The range I go to only goes out to 3500 yards. I only have a 6.5 creedmoor at the moment and it doesn’t have enough. I was thinking about a cadex defense, accuracy international, or a MRAD in a 338, 375 or 408 cheytac. Any opinion with the rifle system to go with?
I'm in the same thinking space. If the shooter & spotter can max out something like a 416 Barrett, there's probably been enough experience to decide how to progress if there's still a need.
OP, you probably need to start by finding a builder to work with. Part of the process is personal preference as opposed to a single best solution.
All three are capable of 3500
338 is cheapest to shoot but cup/core bullets and standard common cartridges are easily beaten in ballistics by some 7mm’s and 300’s
Full flex 338’s with solids are pretty impressive.
The 375 and 408 will give an advantage for spotting for sure and good ballistics.
My first 3500 shots were with a 7mm and it’s wasn’t difficult, in fact quite fun but spotting could be difficult when conditions were a bit wet and wet is common here.
338 is cheapest to shoot but cup/core bullets and standard common cartridges are easily beaten in ballistics by some 7mm’s and 300’s
Full flex 338’s with solids are pretty impressive.
The 375 and 408 will give an advantage for spotting for sure and good ballistics.
My first 3500 shots were with a 7mm and it’s wasn’t difficult, in fact quite fun but spotting could be difficult when conditions were a bit wet and wet is common here.
I know you only want one rifle, but there is no "best." If ELR for you is mid 2000s and down, it's very different than 3k and up. Also, jumping right up to something like a 375 CT from a 6.5 CM is a really big step.
For your budget, you could get two exceedingly nice rifles built - one like a big 30 cal or a 338, and push it out as far as you can. If you want to go farther, get another in a 375 or 416 caliber. A key issue is that when go above 338, everything gets a lot tougher (and more expensive). Most manufacturers make a whole host of accessories (e.g. dies, trimmers, etc.) for 338 on down, but above that you just don't have the same options.
For your budget, you could get two exceedingly nice rifles built - one like a big 30 cal or a 338, and push it out as far as you can. If you want to go farther, get another in a 375 or 416 caliber. A key issue is that when go above 338, everything gets a lot tougher (and more expensive). Most manufacturers make a whole host of accessories (e.g. dies, trimmers, etc.) for 338 on down, but above that you just don't have the same options.
I think this is great advice
Get you feet well, then after a while with that you’ll have a better idea what you need.
I just recently (finally) got all my parts for my 37XC build. Each component was selected based on experience gained over the years with my 30 cals (300 WM and a couple 300 PRCs). If I hadn't had that background, everything would have been a guess.
As an aside, I'm taking a trip to Boise with both my 300 PRC and all the 37XC parts in either 2 or 3 weeks. My smith is going to put together the 37XC while I'm there (and I get to watch him do it all), and he's also going to slightly expand out my 300 PRC chamber, which was cut with one of the original small reamers.
Then I get t bring them both back with me ready to shoot.
I’m building a 37xc as well
Coming from 7 Saum then 338 edge
Maybe if I get into competition I might go bigger but the 37xc should hold me over for a while
Best deal out there right now. I’d grab one of these with the ATACR option and you're right at you budget but with a scope.
www.eurooptic.com
The additional money you were gonna spend on your optic above the $10k budget can buy you all the reloading equipment you’re gonna need. You’ll need a big press like a Talon or prezzi. FX-120, guirard, AMP, etc are all nice if you don’t already have them.
***Your biggest issue right now is going to be finding components.
Note, the only thing you won’t be able to shoot are the heavy solids because the twist rate is not fast enough, but I have a buddy with a factory Cadex that does well with the 390gr A-Tip. That will be your best option.
If you want to shoot the solids, you’ll have to go custom. I hear Robert Vestal is one of the best although I haven’t used him. I went the custom route but had Chad at LRI chamber my barrel with a custom Manson reamer.
You can always shot the 390s for a while and rebarrel when you are ready. Or, pull the factory barrel when you get it and store it away for a rainy day or in case you want to sell it down the road, and have it rebarreled right away and go straight to solids. Either way, it will get you shooting a lot faster than building from components.
Cadex Defense Shadow Rifles
EuroOptic is an Authorized Distributor of Cadex Defense Shadow Rifles. We have rifles in stock and ready to ship now.
The additional money you were gonna spend on your optic above the $10k budget can buy you all the reloading equipment you’re gonna need. You’ll need a big press like a Talon or prezzi. FX-120, guirard, AMP, etc are all nice if you don’t already have them.
***Your biggest issue right now is going to be finding components.
Note, the only thing you won’t be able to shoot are the heavy solids because the twist rate is not fast enough, but I have a buddy with a factory Cadex that does well with the 390gr A-Tip. That will be your best option.
If you want to shoot the solids, you’ll have to go custom. I hear Robert Vestal is one of the best although I haven’t used him. I went the custom route but had Chad at LRI chamber my barrel with a custom Manson reamer.
You can always shot the 390s for a while and rebarrel when you are ready. Or, pull the factory barrel when you get it and store it away for a rainy day or in case you want to sell it down the road, and have it rebarreled right away and go straight to solids. Either way, it will get you shooting a lot faster than building from components.
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AI axsr in 300 Norma and then have a 33xc barrel made and single feed it. That will easily get you out to your desired range and you can still load for both on a coaxial press. One rifle, one scope and one press. I've been down the .375 and .416 road and this is what I have settled on.
I'd go watch Sam after Work YouTube channel then pick something. My opinion is to find a multi barrel set up so you dont get stuck with one caliber.
I also agree that 300NM is perfect for your distance. I have one as well just don’t shoot it much since I got my 375.
@MACHTECH what bullets are you shooting? I primarily shoot the 250gr A-Tips but never gave much of a chance to the CE solids. I did get a few boxes of Badlands solids but they didn’t shoot much better for me than the A-Tips so I stuck with them.
Also, he’s right, you can load them on a standard sized press.
@MACHTECH what bullets are you shooting? I primarily shoot the 250gr A-Tips but never gave much of a chance to the CE solids. I did get a few boxes of Badlands solids but they didn’t shoot much better for me than the A-Tips so I stuck with them.
Also, he’s right, you can load them on a standard sized press.
I switched from the 225 eldm's and retumbo to the 245 Berger's and N570. The performance was incredible, but the N570 was hard on the throat and didn't flow thru the autothrow as smooth as the retumbo. I have since switched back to the 225's again.
You need to look at the equipment list of Ko2M and I think you can decide for yourself what to build. By far the most prevalent calibers are 375 CT and some variation of 416. Remember when you switch to the Barrett or a 460 Steyr, you move to 50 BmG brass. Everything changes again at that point. I’ve gone that way and found my way back to 365/416s but using Petersen brass which is excellent.
I’ve used Cadex as I’m a dealer for them and still prefer a properly bedded stock from Manners for this purpose. Tom’s LRT is amazing for this game.
If you are talking true ELR gun, 1500 and beyond, look at that list, it’s on their FB page from this past Septembers match. Lots of info there from barrel makers, scopes, stocks etc. But talk with someone that has been shooting matches, a lot of them. Not 1000 yard stuff. True ELR matches and you’ll start to see a common thread that you’ll definitely see in equipment lists. You’ll be well under 10K not counting optics with a quality build. Just remember these are dedicated rifles if truly an ELR gun so don’t try to build something to fit multiple uses. It will not be the best for the game if you do that.
I’ve used Cadex as I’m a dealer for them and still prefer a properly bedded stock from Manners for this purpose. Tom’s LRT is amazing for this game.
If you are talking true ELR gun, 1500 and beyond, look at that list, it’s on their FB page from this past Septembers match. Lots of info there from barrel makers, scopes, stocks etc. But talk with someone that has been shooting matches, a lot of them. Not 1000 yard stuff. True ELR matches and you’ll start to see a common thread that you’ll definitely see in equipment lists. You’ll be well under 10K not counting optics with a quality build. Just remember these are dedicated rifles if truly an ELR gun so don’t try to build something to fit multiple uses. It will not be the best for the game if you do that.
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this, if it's one and done build a big boomer.300NM is less than impressive when compared to some of the other 30 cal's. 338 Lap is pretty lame unless you do an improved version.
If you wanna go a bit cheaper 33/37XC is a good option but for 10k you can build a really nice 375CT
If I was to recommend an action to build off it would be one of the two:
TacDriver - with a lapua bolt and cheytac bolt
10x - with a lapua bolt and cheytac bolt
With that you can go from lapua bolt face cartridges (300NM, 33/37XC, 338LM) and cheytac bolt face cartridges.
Both actions are good. One is more budget friendly and the other has some unique features.
But the main problem is that lapua based cartridges are generally light class cartridges (338LM, 300NM, etc.) and cheytac based cartridges are heavily class cartridges (375CT, 375SnipeTac, 416CT, etc.)
So, what weight do you want the rifle to be: light or heavy. If it’s greater than like 25-26lbs and > 338cal then it’s a heavy class rifle. Just keep that in mind.
I am a fan of practicing ELR with something like a 300NM and then stepping up to a 375CT for competition. 300NM is cheaper to practice with, harder to spot shots, etc. so it makes a good practice cartridge.
Disclaimer: I’m speaking in generalities because I don’t want to post 9000 caveats. When speaking in generalities you lose accuracy. I don’t want to type a research paper just to split hairs.
TacDriver - with a lapua bolt and cheytac bolt
10x - with a lapua bolt and cheytac bolt
With that you can go from lapua bolt face cartridges (300NM, 33/37XC, 338LM) and cheytac bolt face cartridges.
Both actions are good. One is more budget friendly and the other has some unique features.
But the main problem is that lapua based cartridges are generally light class cartridges (338LM, 300NM, etc.) and cheytac based cartridges are heavily class cartridges (375CT, 375SnipeTac, 416CT, etc.)
So, what weight do you want the rifle to be: light or heavy. If it’s greater than like 25-26lbs and > 338cal then it’s a heavy class rifle. Just keep that in mind.
I am a fan of practicing ELR with something like a 300NM and then stepping up to a 375CT for competition. 300NM is cheaper to practice with, harder to spot shots, etc. so it makes a good practice cartridge.
Disclaimer: I’m speaking in generalities because I don’t want to post 9000 caveats. When speaking in generalities you lose accuracy. I don’t want to type a research paper just to split hairs.
To really be competitive I feel you must practice with the rifle you compete with. Jmo
Practice doesn’t make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
Beware of the man with one gun, he knows it well
Practice doesn’t make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
Beware of the man with one gun, he knows it well
I'd be interested in more details about what your current goals are, etc. IIRC, you stretched your 375 out to 2 miles, then took the 416 to 3 miles. If you can get the 300 Norma to 3 miles, that's amazing. I don't have an AXSR, but do have an AX MC and it's been awesome, in spite of some regulars here on the ELR subforum that diss on AI and make me laugh. My AX is the most tunable chassis I've shot in terms of ease in getting to where I can spot my own shots so often. Don't get me wrong, I know there are many high performance options and AI is just one of them. Part of it is finding a rifle you can build confidence in and just be able to execute the shot.
Those are the two actions I’m currently looking at.
I have no plans on competition so I’m perfectly happy undergunning myself a bit.
To get the best recommendation you need to be specific in your needs
If you don’t know what you need take any capable rifle you have and have a go at stretching it out as much as possible to get the experience to sort out your requirements.
I was recommending he look at purchasing an axsr or axmc in 300 Norma and then add a 33xc barrel to his kit for his 3500 yard range. @lethalsquirts is the only person I have witnessed make a 2 mile shot with a 300 Norma. The hit indicators went off and upon inspection of the target, it was a strike on the target frame (still an incredible shot imo!) The limits of Norma is pretty much 2640 yards imo.
The 33xc has performed very well in my axsr and @tnester1 axmc. On our last trip to Kansas, Travis became the first one of us to hit the 3 mile target in under 5 attempts (he did it in 3) with his axmc with the 33xc barrel in it and no warm up!
The Bat model Ct is another great action you might consider.
Had a 375 cheytac built on one a number of years back.very smooth.
Had a 375 cheytac built on one a number of years back.very smooth.
If i were building another .416,this is what i would choose.
On actions, easy. Find a BAT. Just skip the drama of the others and start where you will likely end up. We have 375 and such built on Stillers and some on BATs. Sold the stillers. If you do buy a stiller, for goodness sake check the extractor and make sure it’s the newest design that has been correctly heat treated and not one that has been on a shelf somewhere. I’m curious to see direction that new owners take the company. Pierce has some actions on the line as well but far more BAT than anything these days.
Finished a new one on a Model L this week and my newest personal one I’ll finish today on a EXS. The BAT action is the one to beat when choosing for an ELR build. They aren’t the cheapest but they are the best in my experience for this game. But like I mentioned….the end goal will determine your build. If you want to compete at the highest level, there is definitely a certain build that you will see time and again in the list from Ko2M. If you want to plink, and use it for multiple purposes, that can open up possibilities. But if for competition, build it for that specifically or you’ll spend a small fortune building another etc etc.
Finished a new one on a Model L this week and my newest personal one I’ll finish today on a EXS. The BAT action is the one to beat when choosing for an ELR build. They aren’t the cheapest but they are the best in my experience for this game. But like I mentioned….the end goal will determine your build. If you want to compete at the highest level, there is definitely a certain build that you will see time and again in the list from Ko2M. If you want to plink, and use it for multiple purposes, that can open up possibilities. But if for competition, build it for that specifically or you’ll spend a small fortune building another etc etc.
Ive learned the hard way with the Stiller Tac-408...Don’t shoot a match without a spare extractor and and cleaning rod close by lol. The good thing is the few Ive broke the extraction issues are gradual before it gives completely giving just enough warning to change it out.
Ours were not. They just quit working. We are always well below top loads. But my sons went down at Ko2M this year. Sold the two we used and moved to BAT. We spend too much time and money through the year to have them go down like that. My original extractor lasted forever. Like 4 years. It would still be going but had an old case end up in batch somehow on that Snipetac and had a case head separation. That was on me and being in a hurry. Extractor gone for rest of the match. Then the replacements were not good. The newest ones look like they will be ok. Not taking the chance again though. Every one we had go down…..in a match of course 
pictur is my gun for 2022 for this year. That’s the EXS. I’ll make some alterations like the rail this month to run the NF prism but it’s pretty close to final config For the normal season. I will likely make some small changes to the duplicate barrel to make sure I don’t have issues with weight for Ko2M. But I’ll run this barrel for majority of the season then break in the next just for king. My sons will be a headturner for sure. The stock from Manners is just killer! I can’t wait to finish his. Barrel should be here in a week!
pictur is my gun for 2022 for this year. That’s the EXS. I’ll make some alterations like the rail this month to run the NF prism but it’s pretty close to final config For the normal season. I will likely make some small changes to the duplicate barrel to make sure I don’t have issues with weight for Ko2M. But I’ll run this barrel for majority of the season then break in the next just for king. My sons will be a headturner for sure. The stock from Manners is just killer! I can’t wait to finish his. Barrel should be here in a week!Attachments
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These ELR threads are great with build wants vs needs. Before it's all said and done I may build something for our 2k top end, but still having fun at present. I had to laugh at an earlier comment to the effect of 'we only go out to 3500'. Go get em boys!
A bit over budget but I'm running the AI AX50ELR in 416B(not a fan) & 50 but can't wait for the Cheytac conversion coming soon (I hope).
Will be a multi-caliber ELR beast.
Will be a multi-caliber ELR beast.
I'm interested in your "not a fan" comment, as I also have an AI AX50 and I'm considering getting custom 416B barrel made for it. I've already got a custom HCR 338LM that I love out to 2500 yards, but I'm trying to decide whether to go with a 375CT barrel or the 416B barrel for my AX50 for extended ranges.
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Shooting mat is helpful, but you still tend to feel like a sugar cookie after shooting a .50bmg in a sandy area. AR50 brake is a big help for recoil.
Honestly I would like a .375 CT. I like the barrel change capability of the AI, DT. For cost wise I am still debating Cadex or Victrix? But then barrel twist for the Victrix is 1/10 and I believe the preferred twist for 375CT and solids is 1/7?
For 350 grain 1-10 is fine. Im actually shooting a 1-12 for the 390s for now. Guys way overdo twist; and if you’re twisted more than necessary for bullet stability, there is an adverse effect on accuracy.
I have 338-378
375 cheytac & 400 warlord in progress
There’s many good choice
338 lapua
338 edge -338/378 wby will out do 338 lapua especially 338-378 with rcc brass I think the fastest 338 that isn’t a wildcat
Cheytac will out do those and components are available as well quality built rifles from multiple brands
If strictly elr and no hunting I would cheytac or larger than 338 imo
If building I would find cartridge you want
Then get action chassis brass and or reamer on order. Those seem to be the longest wait times to get…
There is built rifles with no lead time that shoot great if your super specific on your build that’s the way to go
Good luck I’m sure you’ll end up with another after getting one
I haven't been able to personally analyze it but I have had a few guys who shoot way more ELR than I do say they have seen adverse effects from over stabilized bullets when they go transonic. I've also probably had just as many people say it doesn't make a difference...
It's actually just the opposite of that. A higher stabilized bullet from a faster twist actually helps make it through transition better than just a marginally stabilized bullet. When shock is introduced to the bullet from dropping through the transonic barrier. The higher twist keeps it from destabilizing. There is no such thing as an over stabilized bullet especially when talking about monolithics.
@badassgunworks that totally makes sense to me and I can't propagate one way or the other.
The only experience I have is shooting with the recommended twist rate and it seems to work so that's all I can say.
I would be interested to hear what the other bench has to say also
The only experience I have is shooting with the recommended twist rate and it seems to work so that's all I can say.
I would be interested to hear what the other bench has to say also
Cup and core Berger's have done well for me starting w a SG of 2.0ish into the transonic.
Monos i spin a lot faster but have only taken them transonic once.
Monos i spin a lot faster but have only taken them transonic once.
I always suggest a minimum of 1.8 the 1.5 just doesn't seem to do it. All of my rifles are 2.0 +
That fits with what I have been reading of running roughly 1/7 for the 375CT.
I'm not super savy to the big boomers but I believe that would put you in a 2.60+ SG to fast IMO
Yes sir. With the 375 CheyTac it is clearly an attempt to create stability Beyond transonic
