Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
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Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What EXACTLY are you trying to accomplish with this list? I truly have no horse in this race--but in the interest of clarity you need to spell out your criteria for your "List of Greats".</div></div>
My intent is for personal research on gunsmith's, and who I am going to have build my next rifle depending on what I am going to have built. My plan over year's to come in other rifle build's, is to use different smith's depending on what kind of rifle I want built etc.
I don't want to seem like I am wasting people's time, I am going to be making a personal annitation of this list in my phone book for future reference as well. And I really appreciate people taking time out to help create this list, so with that, thank you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't see George Gardner on that list. He deserves it as much as anyone on there. </div></div>
I don't know how I missed him. I might of missed another one as well. Big mistake leaving out a smith ESPECIALLY George. Please excuse the error, I must of been tired. Here is the list with George in it. I also added other great smith's I missed Randy Cain and the Warner brother's.
Randy Cain
Dan + Alan Warner
George Gardner
Greg Tannel
Bob Gradous
Jered Joplin
Terry Cross
Rick Beginski
Travis Redell
Mike Rescigno
AJ Brown
Nathan Dagley
Leonard Baity
Tom Dixon
Jim Borden
Dave Bruno
Mike Bryant
Mickey Coleman
Dan Dowling
Sid Goodling
Gary Ocock
Bob Green
Gordy Gritters
John King
Mark King
Chris Matthews
John Myer
John Pierce
Dwight Scott
Clay Spencer
Stan Ware
Thank you much gentlemen!
M_M
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What EXACTLY are you trying to accomplish with this list? I truly have no horse in this race--but in the interest of clarity you need to spell out your criteria for your "List of Greats".</div></div>
My intent is for personal research on gunsmith's, and who I am going to have build my next rifle depending on what I am going to have built. My plan over year's to come in other rifle build's, is to use different smith's depending on what kind of rifle I want built etc.
I don't want to seem like I am wasting people's time, I am going to be making a personal annitation of this list in my phone book for future reference as well. And I really appreciate people taking time out to help create this list, so with that, thank you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't see George Gardner on that list. He deserves it as much as anyone on there. </div></div>
I don't know how I missed him. I might of missed another one as well. Big mistake leaving out a smith ESPECIALLY George. Please excuse the error, I must of been tired. Here is the list with George in it. I also added other great smith's I missed Randy Cain and the Warner brother's.
Randy Cain
Dan + Alan Warner
George Gardner
Greg Tannel
Bob Gradous
Jered Joplin
Terry Cross
Rick Beginski
Travis Redell
Mike Rescigno
AJ Brown
Nathan Dagley
Leonard Baity
Tom Dixon
Jim Borden
Dave Bruno
Mike Bryant
Mickey Coleman
Dan Dowling
Sid Goodling
Gary Ocock
Bob Green
Gordy Gritters
John King
Mark King
Chris Matthews
John Myer
John Pierce
Dwight Scott
Clay Spencer
Stan Ware
Thank you much gentlemen!
M_M
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
Mike Lau and Connor McLeod should be on that list as well. Also Brian Slink makes a fine stick.
Mike Lau and Connor McLeod should be on that list as well. Also Brian Slink makes a fine stick.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
surgeon?...krieger?...bartlein?...they smith rifles that will hang with anything out there.
surgeon?...krieger?...bartlein?...they smith rifles that will hang with anything out there.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pgs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">surgeon?...krieger?...bartlein?...they smith rifles that will hang with anything out there. </div></div>
I have a Surgeon Scalpel and I am very impressed with the quality of their work. I also own a GAP and a PAI and would have a hard time deciding which is the better built rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pgs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">surgeon?...krieger?...bartlein?...they smith rifles that will hang with anything out there. </div></div>
I have a Surgeon Scalpel and I am very impressed with the quality of their work. I also own a GAP and a PAI and would have a hard time deciding which is the better built rifle.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
Hey M_M,
Missed one very much worthy of being on the list:
Surgeon Rifles - Preston Prichett
Check them out here:
http://surgeonrifles.com/custom-rifles
A good read here:
http://surgeonrifles.com/sites/surgeonrifles/uploads/documents/gun_magazine.pdf
Good luck!
Hey M_M,
Missed one very much worthy of being on the list:
Surgeon Rifles - Preston Prichett
Check them out here:
http://surgeonrifles.com/custom-rifles
A good read here:
http://surgeonrifles.com/sites/surgeonrifles/uploads/documents/gun_magazine.pdf
Good luck!
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there are many that you will never know of......because some will keep their gunplumbers VERY close to the vest pocket...</div></div>
Boltripper sits on his hands
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there are many that you will never know of......because some will keep their gunplumbers VERY close to the vest pocket...</div></div>
Boltripper sits on his hands
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
Hey I dont want my name thrown into a pissing contest of who builds the best rifle. Like scopes it goes rifle to rifle.
I have rifles by many of the named smiths and love all of the rifles. I do not have a bad rifle.
Now since you asked about AJ Brown specifically. I cant say enough good about that man. Great rifle and just pleasure to do business with. He builds a rifle designed for rough field work and still shoot one hole groups. His prices are damm good also. Damm fine rifle. This rifle is my favorite right now because I can beat crap out of it and it still shoots great. Plus it handles so well with 20" bbl and A3/A5 stock
I have a rifle built by Mike at Tac Ops. Its the best fit and finish of any rifle I have purchased. It shoots .25 moa or better with factory ammunition which no rifle before has done for me. Now I am told not to use M118LR in it because of tight chamber, which is not a problem for me, but a Military guy would not like that. This rifle was designed for police HRT work and is perfect for that. Mike says he can do a rifle for 118 LR but since mine was designed for HRT work he built for the rounds that would be used. No one I know uses M118LR for SWAT/HRT work.My hand loads shoot sub .25 moa in it as well. Damm fine rifle. This is my best HRT rifle and best looking rifle. Once I get some scratches on it I will then take in field but right now just too nice to do so. I dont think anyone can beat him for an HRT Rifle.
My TIS Rifle is built by GAP and does .33 moa with factory ammunition, but it was designed for field work and runs any ammo well. I have shot this caked in mud. Trade off shoot anything but accuracy is not the ultimate. Keep in mind I wanted a light sniper rifle I could shoot 1000 yards with. GAP made it exactly as I asked except it shoots better than I asked for. I wanted a .50 moa rifle and got .33 moa. GAP builds fine rifle. This is my carry all day rifle because it only weights ten pounds complete.
Now I just traded for a Wnroscoe built 6.5x47 and will pick up in ten days. I hear and trust he is another great builder.
Many names have been lsited on here as great builders and I beleive they all are great. I bet there are many more not heard of who build equal rifles but dont have the following. The probelm in this type of judgement thing is it ends up being a popularity contest and really there is no best builder. There is only the best builder for you. If something, rifle, sling or scope becomes best for me it does not mean the others became shit. It means thats what I or someone else prefers now.
Hey I dont want my name thrown into a pissing contest of who builds the best rifle. Like scopes it goes rifle to rifle.
I have rifles by many of the named smiths and love all of the rifles. I do not have a bad rifle.
Now since you asked about AJ Brown specifically. I cant say enough good about that man. Great rifle and just pleasure to do business with. He builds a rifle designed for rough field work and still shoot one hole groups. His prices are damm good also. Damm fine rifle. This rifle is my favorite right now because I can beat crap out of it and it still shoots great. Plus it handles so well with 20" bbl and A3/A5 stock
I have a rifle built by Mike at Tac Ops. Its the best fit and finish of any rifle I have purchased. It shoots .25 moa or better with factory ammunition which no rifle before has done for me. Now I am told not to use M118LR in it because of tight chamber, which is not a problem for me, but a Military guy would not like that. This rifle was designed for police HRT work and is perfect for that. Mike says he can do a rifle for 118 LR but since mine was designed for HRT work he built for the rounds that would be used. No one I know uses M118LR for SWAT/HRT work.My hand loads shoot sub .25 moa in it as well. Damm fine rifle. This is my best HRT rifle and best looking rifle. Once I get some scratches on it I will then take in field but right now just too nice to do so. I dont think anyone can beat him for an HRT Rifle.
My TIS Rifle is built by GAP and does .33 moa with factory ammunition, but it was designed for field work and runs any ammo well. I have shot this caked in mud. Trade off shoot anything but accuracy is not the ultimate. Keep in mind I wanted a light sniper rifle I could shoot 1000 yards with. GAP made it exactly as I asked except it shoots better than I asked for. I wanted a .50 moa rifle and got .33 moa. GAP builds fine rifle. This is my carry all day rifle because it only weights ten pounds complete.
Now I just traded for a Wnroscoe built 6.5x47 and will pick up in ten days. I hear and trust he is another great builder.
Many names have been lsited on here as great builders and I beleive they all are great. I bet there are many more not heard of who build equal rifles but dont have the following. The probelm in this type of judgement thing is it ends up being a popularity contest and really there is no best builder. There is only the best builder for you. If something, rifle, sling or scope becomes best for me it does not mean the others became shit. It means thats what I or someone else prefers now.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M21 Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey M_M,
Missed one very much worthy of being on the list:
Surgeon Rifles - Preston Prichett
Check them out here:
http://surgeonrifles.com/custom-rifles
A good read here:
http://surgeonrifles.com/sites/surgeonrifles/uploads/documents/gun_magazine.pdf
Good luck!
</div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M21 Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey M_M,
Missed one very much worthy of being on the list:
Surgeon Rifles - Preston Prichett
Check them out here:
http://surgeonrifles.com/custom-rifles
A good read here:
http://surgeonrifles.com/sites/surgeonrifles/uploads/documents/gun_magazine.pdf
Good luck!
+1
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<span style="color: #33CC00"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Updated List as of 28JAN09 1230 Hours</span></span>
Mike Lau
Connor McLeod
Brian Slink
Preston Prichett
George Gardner
RW Snyder
Billy Stevens
Randy R&D Precision
George Gardner
KK Jense
Nathan Dagley
Alan Warner
Dave Tooley
Greg Tannel
Terry Cross
Bob Gradous
Jered Joplin
Terry Cross
Rick Beginski
Travis Redell
Mike Rescigno
AJ Brown
Nathan Dagley
Leonard Baity
Tom Dixon
Jim Borden
Dave Bruno
Mike Bryant
Mickey Coleman
Dan Dowling
Sid Goodling
Gary Ocock
Bob Green
Gordy Gritters
John King
Mark King
Chris Matthews
John Myer
John Pierce
Dwight Scott
Clay Spencer
Stan Ware
<span style="color: #33CC00"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Updated List as of 28JAN09 1230 Hours</span></span>
Mike Lau
Connor McLeod
Brian Slink
Preston Prichett
George Gardner
RW Snyder
Billy Stevens
Randy R&D Precision
George Gardner
KK Jense
Nathan Dagley
Alan Warner
Dave Tooley
Greg Tannel
Terry Cross
Bob Gradous
Jered Joplin
Terry Cross
Rick Beginski
Travis Redell
Mike Rescigno
AJ Brown
Nathan Dagley
Leonard Baity
Tom Dixon
Jim Borden
Dave Bruno
Mike Bryant
Mickey Coleman
Dan Dowling
Sid Goodling
Gary Ocock
Bob Green
Gordy Gritters
John King
Mark King
Chris Matthews
John Myer
John Pierce
Dwight Scott
Clay Spencer
Stan Ware
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now since you asked about AJ Brown specifically. I cant say enough good about that man. Great rifle and just pleasure to do business with. He builds a rifle designed for rough field work and still shoot one hole groups. His prices are damm good also. Damm fine rifle.
I have a rifle built by Mike at Tac Ops. Its the best fit and finish of any rifle I have purchased. It shoots .25 moa or better with factory ammunition which no rifle before has done for me.
A. Warner is considered the best in long range 308s by many. I will have a rifle built by him one day.
Many names have been lsited on here as great builders and I beleive they all are great. I bet there are many more not heard of who build equal rifles but dont have the following. The probelm in this type of judgement thing is it ends up being a popularity contest and really there is no best builder. There is only the best builder for you. If something, rifle, sling or scope becomes best for me it does not mean the others became shit. It means thats what I or someone else prefers now. </div></div>
Nice reading some wisdom. My cousin owned a TBA M40A3 from Mike Lau but I never did get to shoot it. He did said the downside was he waited a long time before he got it.
AJ Brown I have heard great thing's about from various resources over the net. Sounds like he builds a great field rifle that's really durable. For me it's a simple process of elimination at this point as far as this first custom build is concerned.
Warner also draws interest, simply because he builds championship rifle's. Not leaving the other's out, to many great builder's to mention.
If anyone has more, tell me.
Thanks again gent's,
M_M
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now since you asked about AJ Brown specifically. I cant say enough good about that man. Great rifle and just pleasure to do business with. He builds a rifle designed for rough field work and still shoot one hole groups. His prices are damm good also. Damm fine rifle.
I have a rifle built by Mike at Tac Ops. Its the best fit and finish of any rifle I have purchased. It shoots .25 moa or better with factory ammunition which no rifle before has done for me.
A. Warner is considered the best in long range 308s by many. I will have a rifle built by him one day.
Many names have been lsited on here as great builders and I beleive they all are great. I bet there are many more not heard of who build equal rifles but dont have the following. The probelm in this type of judgement thing is it ends up being a popularity contest and really there is no best builder. There is only the best builder for you. If something, rifle, sling or scope becomes best for me it does not mean the others became shit. It means thats what I or someone else prefers now. </div></div>
Nice reading some wisdom. My cousin owned a TBA M40A3 from Mike Lau but I never did get to shoot it. He did said the downside was he waited a long time before he got it.
AJ Brown I have heard great thing's about from various resources over the net. Sounds like he builds a great field rifle that's really durable. For me it's a simple process of elimination at this point as far as this first custom build is concerned.
Warner also draws interest, simply because he builds championship rifle's. Not leaving the other's out, to many great builder's to mention.
If anyone has more, tell me.
Thanks again gent's,
M_M
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mountain_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #33CC00"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Updated List as of 28JAN09 1230 Hours</span></span>
Mike Lau </div></div>
+1 for me- built my 260 Rem, and shoots bug holes. Highly recommend Mike at Texas Brigade.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mountain_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #33CC00"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Updated List as of 28JAN09 1230 Hours</span></span>
Mike Lau </div></div>
+1 for me- built my 260 Rem, and shoots bug holes. Highly recommend Mike at Texas Brigade.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
Good one Skunk.
M_M, I hope I never get stuck behind you at the vending machine. We'd be there for months.
- Loud
Good one Skunk.
M_M, I hope I never get stuck behind you at the vending machine. We'd be there for months.
- Loud
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: atreeman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1st post here guys so be gentle..
If we are allowed to suggest smiths from this side of the pond then I would like to add Mike Norris. He's built some great sticks both tactical and hunting.
Thanks
G </div></div>
atreeman,
Mike is good people indeed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: atreeman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1st post here guys so be gentle..
If we are allowed to suggest smiths from this side of the pond then I would like to add Mike Norris. He's built some great sticks both tactical and hunting.
Thanks
G </div></div>
atreeman,
Mike is good people indeed.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
a few more for the pot.
Barney Lawton who was just yesterday lost to Brain Cancer.
Bobby Hart from RW Hart & Sons builds a pretty darn good gun
JD Jones from SSK builds many weapons as is the innovator of a few popular loads like the Whisper Series of Calibers.
This list could go on for days and now that I think about it it probably going to cause more harm than good.
a few more for the pot.
Barney Lawton who was just yesterday lost to Brain Cancer.
Bobby Hart from RW Hart & Sons builds a pretty darn good gun
JD Jones from SSK builds many weapons as is the innovator of a few popular loads like the Whisper Series of Calibers.
This list could go on for days and now that I think about it it probably going to cause more harm than good.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mountain_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #33CC00"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Updated List as of 28JAN09 1230 Hours</span></span>
Mike Lau
Connor McLeod
Brian Slink
Preston Prichett
George Gardner
RW Snyder
Billy Stevens
Randy R&D Precision
George Gardner
KK Jense
Nathan Dagley
Alan Warner
Dave Tooley
Greg Tannel
Terry Cross
Bob Gradous
Jered Joplin
Terry Cross
Rick Beginski
Travis Redell
Mike Rescigno
AJ Brown
Nathan Dagley
Leonard Baity
Tom Dixon
Jim Borden
Dave Bruno
Mike Bryant
Mickey Coleman
Dan Dowling
Sid Goodling
Gary Ocock
Bob Green
Gordy Gritters
John King
Mark King
Chris Matthews
John Myer
John Pierce
Dwight Scott
Clay Spencer
Stan Ware
So, just think about for a moment if all (and more)of us where working in the same shop.
Logistics woud be cut by 80% and we all could take a two week down time and not feel guilty!
We'd have to start making barrels. Frank and Stacey might not keep up. (But I donn't think so )
Did I mention about 5 or 6 stock makers?
Alan Warner
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mountain_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #33CC00"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Updated List as of 28JAN09 1230 Hours</span></span>
Mike Lau
Connor McLeod
Brian Slink
Preston Prichett
George Gardner
RW Snyder
Billy Stevens
Randy R&D Precision
George Gardner
KK Jense
Nathan Dagley
Alan Warner
Dave Tooley
Greg Tannel
Terry Cross
Bob Gradous
Jered Joplin
Terry Cross
Rick Beginski
Travis Redell
Mike Rescigno
AJ Brown
Nathan Dagley
Leonard Baity
Tom Dixon
Jim Borden
Dave Bruno
Mike Bryant
Mickey Coleman
Dan Dowling
Sid Goodling
Gary Ocock
Bob Green
Gordy Gritters
John King
Mark King
Chris Matthews
John Myer
John Pierce
Dwight Scott
Clay Spencer
Stan Ware
So, just think about for a moment if all (and more)of us where working in the same shop.
Logistics woud be cut by 80% and we all could take a two week down time and not feel guilty!
We'd have to start making barrels. Frank and Stacey might not keep up. (But I donn't think so )
Did I mention about 5 or 6 stock makers?
Alan Warner
</div></div>
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
That whole fuckin list is in deep shit because......... I heard that................
Fuckin' <span style="font-weight: bold">CHUCK NORRIS </span> Is going to start building rifles!!!!
That whole fuckin list is in deep shit because......... I heard that................
Fuckin' <span style="font-weight: bold">CHUCK NORRIS </span> Is going to start building rifles!!!!
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<span style="color: #006600"><span style="text-decoration: underline">List Updated 28JAN09 1826 hrs</span></span>
Mike Lau
Connor McLeod
Brian Slink
Preston Prichett
George Gardner
RW Snyder
Billy Stevens
Randy R&D Precision
George Gardner
KK Jense
Nathan Dagley
Alan Warner
Dave Tooley
Greg Tannel
Terry Cross
Bob Gradous
Jered Joplin
Terry Cross
Rick Beginski
Travis Redell
Mike Rescigno
AJ Brown
Nathan Dagley
Leonard Baity
Tom Dixon
Jim Borden
Dave Bruno
Mike Bryant
Mickey Coleman
Dan Dowling
Sid Goodling
Gary Ocock
Bob Green
Gordy Gritters
John King
Mark King
Chris Matthews
John Myer
John Pierce
Dwight Scott
Clay Spencer
Stan Ware
Norm Chandlers
Barney Lawton
Bobby Hart
JD Jones
M_M
<span style="color: #006600"><span style="text-decoration: underline">List Updated 28JAN09 1826 hrs</span></span>
Mike Lau
Connor McLeod
Brian Slink
Preston Prichett
George Gardner
RW Snyder
Billy Stevens
Randy R&D Precision
George Gardner
KK Jense
Nathan Dagley
Alan Warner
Dave Tooley
Greg Tannel
Terry Cross
Bob Gradous
Jered Joplin
Terry Cross
Rick Beginski
Travis Redell
Mike Rescigno
AJ Brown
Nathan Dagley
Leonard Baity
Tom Dixon
Jim Borden
Dave Bruno
Mike Bryant
Mickey Coleman
Dan Dowling
Sid Goodling
Gary Ocock
Bob Green
Gordy Gritters
John King
Mark King
Chris Matthews
John Myer
John Pierce
Dwight Scott
Clay Spencer
Stan Ware
Norm Chandlers
Barney Lawton
Bobby Hart
JD Jones
M_M
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
"So, just think about for a moment if all (and more)of us where working in the same shop.
Logistics woud be cut by 80% and we all could take a two week down time and not feel guilty!
We'd have to start making barrels. Frank and Stacey might not keep up. (But I donn't think so )
Did I mention about 5 or 6 stock makers"
Alan, could end up a disaster there. Too many perfectionists under one roof. It would have to be a big shop I reckon, about the size of Montana, hah.
"So, just think about for a moment if all (and more)of us where working in the same shop.
Logistics woud be cut by 80% and we all could take a two week down time and not feel guilty!
We'd have to start making barrels. Frank and Stacey might not keep up. (But I donn't think so )
Did I mention about 5 or 6 stock makers"
Alan, could end up a disaster there. Too many perfectionists under one roof. It would have to be a big shop I reckon, about the size of Montana, hah.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
One-hole or whack-a-mole, maybe we can get them all together for 2 weeks in a machine shop and see what they come up with.
Glad to see you added this guy because I am kind of big on durability.
One-hole or whack-a-mole, maybe we can get them all together for 2 weeks in a machine shop and see what they come up with.
Glad to see you added this guy because I am kind of big on durability.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
All good smiths I'm sure.
However I would throw out any shop that operates with more than one guy doing the smith work. While the good shops that have several guys working no doubt are turning out good product lets face it. In any business, any shop in any industry if it's 2 guys or 1000 guys, they all don't do the same level of work, they have different experience levels, different skills, and different levels of attention to detail. So what comes out of a shop with 10 guys working in it varies by who did the work. Is it the guy that's only been there 6 months or a year, or the guy that has been doing it 20 years that earned the shop it's reputation? One guy might take more time, make sure everything is 110% the other guys might do 100% or 105% etc. If something isn't quite perfect one guy might let it go out the door, another might scrap it and start over. Since you usually can't request a certain builder those big shops with multiple smiths are an unknown variable. Was your work done by the guy that stays there till 9pm on a friday night to get it perfect, or was it built by the guy that didn't put as much into it to get out of there by 3pm. They both cost the same, but you have no control over which one you get.
In fact you'll find a lot of custom shops with multiple employees the guy that got them the reputation they have builds very few if any of the builds anymore. It's true in rifles, shotguns, and handguns, along with any other high end sport you look hard enough into.
Not to say those shops don't build fine rifles, there are certainly many examples of those that do, and usually better than the monkey pulling the trigger can hope to shoot. However, the best consistent rifles are going to be the one man operations. Usually with crazy long wait lists and super high prices.
All good smiths I'm sure.
However I would throw out any shop that operates with more than one guy doing the smith work. While the good shops that have several guys working no doubt are turning out good product lets face it. In any business, any shop in any industry if it's 2 guys or 1000 guys, they all don't do the same level of work, they have different experience levels, different skills, and different levels of attention to detail. So what comes out of a shop with 10 guys working in it varies by who did the work. Is it the guy that's only been there 6 months or a year, or the guy that has been doing it 20 years that earned the shop it's reputation? One guy might take more time, make sure everything is 110% the other guys might do 100% or 105% etc. If something isn't quite perfect one guy might let it go out the door, another might scrap it and start over. Since you usually can't request a certain builder those big shops with multiple smiths are an unknown variable. Was your work done by the guy that stays there till 9pm on a friday night to get it perfect, or was it built by the guy that didn't put as much into it to get out of there by 3pm. They both cost the same, but you have no control over which one you get.
In fact you'll find a lot of custom shops with multiple employees the guy that got them the reputation they have builds very few if any of the builds anymore. It's true in rifles, shotguns, and handguns, along with any other high end sport you look hard enough into.
Not to say those shops don't build fine rifles, there are certainly many examples of those that do, and usually better than the monkey pulling the trigger can hope to shoot. However, the best consistent rifles are going to be the one man operations. Usually with crazy long wait lists and super high prices.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
One other thing to look into besides the work is the customer service of the 'smith. Like it or not, you're going to have to correspond with the 'smith from time to time. One thing that has been a pisser for me in the past has been expectations were set higher than what was delivered upon. This could range from delivery date to type of work. If a 'smith says ETA of 7 months, that's what I expect...Not a year with subpar work.
The best advice some have given in the past is to talk to customers of each individual 'smith you are considering and get a feel for what they are telling you. There are many places on the 'net to receive feedback other than one board.
Lastly, consider the build you want and then consider the 'smith. A tactical 'smith isn't a benchrest 'smith and possibly vice versa. I'd rather have an eager 'smith (with references) wanting to make a name for himself rather than a 'smith that's "made it" and is so busy that attention to detail doesn't occur.
One other thing to look into besides the work is the customer service of the 'smith. Like it or not, you're going to have to correspond with the 'smith from time to time. One thing that has been a pisser for me in the past has been expectations were set higher than what was delivered upon. This could range from delivery date to type of work. If a 'smith says ETA of 7 months, that's what I expect...Not a year with subpar work.
The best advice some have given in the past is to talk to customers of each individual 'smith you are considering and get a feel for what they are telling you. There are many places on the 'net to receive feedback other than one board.
Lastly, consider the build you want and then consider the 'smith. A tactical 'smith isn't a benchrest 'smith and possibly vice versa. I'd rather have an eager 'smith (with references) wanting to make a name for himself rather than a 'smith that's "made it" and is so busy that attention to detail doesn't occur.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Old Eyes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
TODD:
You contradict yourself so many times above it makes me wonder if you have a running debate with yourself every time you need to wipe.
And do you give it 110%?
alan </div></div>
Guess my response was too complicated for you to comprehend but I don't see a single contradiction there. Let me dumb it down for you.
The best rifles being built if you consider every sample that goes out the door are one man operations from start to finish. Shops with multiple guys doing the smith work have samples that vary depending on who builds it. Some of the shop guys are going to do better work than others, that's just the way it is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Old Eyes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
TODD:
You contradict yourself so many times above it makes me wonder if you have a running debate with yourself every time you need to wipe.
And do you give it 110%?
alan </div></div>
Guess my response was too complicated for you to comprehend but I don't see a single contradiction there. Let me dumb it down for you.
The best rifles being built if you consider every sample that goes out the door are one man operations from start to finish. Shops with multiple guys doing the smith work have samples that vary depending on who builds it. Some of the shop guys are going to do better work than others, that's just the way it is.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
[/quote]
Nice reading some wisdom. My cousin owned a TBA M40A3 from Mike Lau but I never did get to shoot it. He did said the downside was he waited a long time before he got it.
AJ Brown I have heard great thing's about from various resources over the net. Sounds like he builds a great field rifle that's really durable. For me it's a simple process of elimination at this point as far as this first custom build is concerned.
Warner also draws interest, simply because he builds championship rifle's. Not leaving the other's out, to many great builder's to mention.
If anyone has more, tell me.
Thanks again gent's,
M_M
[/quote]
I also had a TBA and had some trouble getting it to shoot as advertised after waiting 18 months. I sold it and bought a Tac Ops Sierra 51 and it shoots as advertised. I also bought a KMW .308 (Terry Cross) and that shoot incredibly as well..it's my favorite gun right now. I have a Surgeon action at Warner Tool (Alan Warner) for a 6.5x47 build...should have that in several weeks. Love Tac Ops and KMW and expect great things from Warner Tool.
[/quote]
Nice reading some wisdom. My cousin owned a TBA M40A3 from Mike Lau but I never did get to shoot it. He did said the downside was he waited a long time before he got it.
AJ Brown I have heard great thing's about from various resources over the net. Sounds like he builds a great field rifle that's really durable. For me it's a simple process of elimination at this point as far as this first custom build is concerned.
Warner also draws interest, simply because he builds championship rifle's. Not leaving the other's out, to many great builder's to mention.
If anyone has more, tell me.
Thanks again gent's,
M_M
[/quote]
I also had a TBA and had some trouble getting it to shoot as advertised after waiting 18 months. I sold it and bought a Tac Ops Sierra 51 and it shoots as advertised. I also bought a KMW .308 (Terry Cross) and that shoot incredibly as well..it's my favorite gun right now. I have a Surgeon action at Warner Tool (Alan Warner) for a 6.5x47 build...should have that in several weeks. Love Tac Ops and KMW and expect great things from Warner Tool.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Old Eyes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
TODD:
You contradict yourself so many times above it makes me wonder if you have a running debate with yourself every time you need to wipe.
And do you give it 110%?
alan </div></div>
Guess my response was too complicated for you to comprehend but I don't see a single contradiction there. Let me dumb it down for you.
The best rifles being built if you consider every sample that goes out the door are one man operations from start to finish. Shops with multiple guys doing the smith work have samples that vary depending on who builds it. Some of the shop guys are going to do better work than others, that's just the way it is. </div></div>
Yea Alan- Don't you know anything? Now get your dumb ass back in the shop and make some more of those those knucklehead sights... And god knows it is impossible to implement anything resembling a system of quality control checks in gunsmithing---so you better do everything yourself lest you get a reputation as one of those crappy mass-production shops like GA Precision...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Old Eyes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
TODD:
You contradict yourself so many times above it makes me wonder if you have a running debate with yourself every time you need to wipe.
And do you give it 110%?
alan </div></div>
Guess my response was too complicated for you to comprehend but I don't see a single contradiction there. Let me dumb it down for you.
The best rifles being built if you consider every sample that goes out the door are one man operations from start to finish. Shops with multiple guys doing the smith work have samples that vary depending on who builds it. Some of the shop guys are going to do better work than others, that's just the way it is. </div></div>
Yea Alan- Don't you know anything? Now get your dumb ass back in the shop and make some more of those those knucklehead sights... And god knows it is impossible to implement anything resembling a system of quality control checks in gunsmithing---so you better do everything yourself lest you get a reputation as one of those crappy mass-production shops like GA Precision...
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
I dont know how many folks any of thse shops have but I do know great work has come out of many if not all of them. One thing I wish guys would remember is everyone can f up, its how they deal with a f up that seperates the great smiths form the rest.
I like the idea of the smith shooting the rifle for groups and if he can not get it to shoot to abilities he claims, he rebuilds it until its correct. It reminds me of how John Jardine builds a pistol. He takes it out and shoot the crap out of it to make sure it is perfect then he lets you have it. To me that is simple, I pick it up, check zero and its ready to go to work. Obviously I wont hit street with brand new pistol before proving to myself, but it sure is nice to know it already passed one hard assed test.
I know Mike at Tac Ops does this also and it was great getting a rifle good to go, from the box.
Alan and Terry are two I know I am going to get to build me a rifle. If not this year, hopefully next year. There stuff is at top of heap.
I dont know how many folks any of thse shops have but I do know great work has come out of many if not all of them. One thing I wish guys would remember is everyone can f up, its how they deal with a f up that seperates the great smiths form the rest.
I like the idea of the smith shooting the rifle for groups and if he can not get it to shoot to abilities he claims, he rebuilds it until its correct. It reminds me of how John Jardine builds a pistol. He takes it out and shoot the crap out of it to make sure it is perfect then he lets you have it. To me that is simple, I pick it up, check zero and its ready to go to work. Obviously I wont hit street with brand new pistol before proving to myself, but it sure is nice to know it already passed one hard assed test.
I know Mike at Tac Ops does this also and it was great getting a rifle good to go, from the box.
Alan and Terry are two I know I am going to get to build me a rifle. If not this year, hopefully next year. There stuff is at top of heap.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
Thanks so far gent's. I have already learned a lot about gunsmith's etc. I will start researching now and post what my plan here soon.
Many thanks,
M_M
Thanks so far gent's. I have already learned a lot about gunsmith's etc. I will start researching now and post what my plan here soon.
Many thanks,
M_M
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey I dont want my name thrown into a pissing contest of who builds the best rifle. Like scopes it goes rifle to rifle.
I have rifles by many of the named smiths and love all of the rifles. I do not have a bad rifle.
Now since you asked about AJ Brown specifically. I cant say enough good about that man. Great rifle and just pleasure to do business with. He builds a rifle designed for rough field work and still shoot one hole groups. His prices are damm good also. Damm fine rifle. This rifle is my favorite right now because I can beat crap out of it and it still shoots great. Plus it handles so well with 20" bbl and A3/A5 stock
I have a rifle built by Mike at Tac Ops. Its the best fit and finish of any rifle I have purchased. It shoots .25 moa or better with factory ammunition which no rifle before has done for me. Now I am told not to use M118LR in it because of tight chamber, which is not a problem for me, but a Military guy would not like that. This rifle was designed for police HRT work and is perfect for that. Mike says he can do a rifle for 118 LR but since mine was designed for HRT work he built for the rounds that would be used. No one I know uses M118LR for SWAT/HRT work.My hand loads shoot sub .25 moa in it as well. Damm fine rifle. This is my best HRT rifle and best looking rifle. Once I get some scratches on it I will then take in field but right now just too nice to do so. I dont think anyone can beat him for an HRT Rifle.
My TIS Rifle is built by GAP and does .33 moa with factory ammunition, but it was designed for field work and runs any ammo well. I have shot this caked in mud. Trade off shoot anything but accuracy is not the ultimate. Keep in mind I wanted a light sniper rifle I could shoot 1000 yards with. GAP made it exactly as I asked except it shoots better than I asked for. I wanted a .50 moa rifle and got .33 moa. GAP builds fine rifle. This is my carry all day rifle because it only weights ten pounds complete.
Now I just traded for a Wnroscoe built 6.5x47 and will pick up in ten days. I hear and trust he is another great builder.
Many names have been lsited on here as great builders and I beleive they all are great. I bet there are many more not heard of who build equal rifles but dont have the following. The probelm in this type of judgement thing is it ends up being a popularity contest and really there is no best builder. There is only the best builder for you. If something, rifle, sling or scope becomes best for me it does not mean the others became shit. It means thats what I or someone else prefers now. </div></div>
Great post.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey I dont want my name thrown into a pissing contest of who builds the best rifle. Like scopes it goes rifle to rifle.
I have rifles by many of the named smiths and love all of the rifles. I do not have a bad rifle.
Now since you asked about AJ Brown specifically. I cant say enough good about that man. Great rifle and just pleasure to do business with. He builds a rifle designed for rough field work and still shoot one hole groups. His prices are damm good also. Damm fine rifle. This rifle is my favorite right now because I can beat crap out of it and it still shoots great. Plus it handles so well with 20" bbl and A3/A5 stock
I have a rifle built by Mike at Tac Ops. Its the best fit and finish of any rifle I have purchased. It shoots .25 moa or better with factory ammunition which no rifle before has done for me. Now I am told not to use M118LR in it because of tight chamber, which is not a problem for me, but a Military guy would not like that. This rifle was designed for police HRT work and is perfect for that. Mike says he can do a rifle for 118 LR but since mine was designed for HRT work he built for the rounds that would be used. No one I know uses M118LR for SWAT/HRT work.My hand loads shoot sub .25 moa in it as well. Damm fine rifle. This is my best HRT rifle and best looking rifle. Once I get some scratches on it I will then take in field but right now just too nice to do so. I dont think anyone can beat him for an HRT Rifle.
My TIS Rifle is built by GAP and does .33 moa with factory ammunition, but it was designed for field work and runs any ammo well. I have shot this caked in mud. Trade off shoot anything but accuracy is not the ultimate. Keep in mind I wanted a light sniper rifle I could shoot 1000 yards with. GAP made it exactly as I asked except it shoots better than I asked for. I wanted a .50 moa rifle and got .33 moa. GAP builds fine rifle. This is my carry all day rifle because it only weights ten pounds complete.
Now I just traded for a Wnroscoe built 6.5x47 and will pick up in ten days. I hear and trust he is another great builder.
Many names have been lsited on here as great builders and I beleive they all are great. I bet there are many more not heard of who build equal rifles but dont have the following. The probelm in this type of judgement thing is it ends up being a popularity contest and really there is no best builder. There is only the best builder for you. If something, rifle, sling or scope becomes best for me it does not mean the others became shit. It means thats what I or someone else prefers now. </div></div>
Great post.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now I just traded for a Wnroscoe built 6.5x47 and will pick up in ten days. I hear and trust he is another great builder. </div></div>
Now I feel butter flies in my stomach
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now I just traded for a Wnroscoe built 6.5x47 and will pick up in ten days. I hear and trust he is another great builder. </div></div>
Now I feel butter flies in my stomach
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
Butch Hongisto
Sullivan MO
I think this man is incredibly talented. He is popular among benchrest people, particularly rim-fire. I would use him for "walk-in" business.
Butch Hongisto
Sullivan MO
I think this man is incredibly talented. He is popular among benchrest people, particularly rim-fire. I would use him for "walk-in" business.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
Kirby Allen (Allen Precision Rifles) builds a heck of a rifle. I have his 338AX, I have 2 GAPS also. George is top notch but the wait time can be a little long do to the number of customers. Won't stop me from another one in the future if I need it.
I'd say find someone you trust and who you can deal with--in the end YOUR the only one that has to be happy with the rifle and the service.
Kirby Allen (Allen Precision Rifles) builds a heck of a rifle. I have his 338AX, I have 2 GAPS also. George is top notch but the wait time can be a little long do to the number of customers. Won't stop me from another one in the future if I need it.
I'd say find someone you trust and who you can deal with--in the end YOUR the only one that has to be happy with the rifle and the service.
Re: Best of the best Custom Rifle Builder's
GA Precision
George Gardner - Best smith I have ever met.
GA Precision
George Gardner - Best smith I have ever met.
My fav choices are KMW, GAP, and tacops for the tactical crowd and I have 2 BR guns built by Kelblys and Leanord Baity.
All of wqhich will be better than anyone canshoot.
All of wqhich will be better than anyone canshoot.
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