Best pointing die

[Mk32784]

So between the Whidden Pointing Die and the Bulletipping one, anyone have any preferences? Or is there something else I am suppose to be looking at?

Only plan to point one or two bullets so I don't mind the Bulletipping individual inserts.

 

[6.5SH]

Interested in feedback on this as well.

 

[ncr92]

I have two tipping dies and two meplat trimmers from Bullet Tipping. Their stuff is super high quality and a pleasure to use. Very happy with it.
I have not used the Whidden pointing die.

 

[Mk32784]

I have two tipping dies and two meplat trimmers from Bullet Tipping. Their stuff is super high quality and a pleasure to use. Very happy with it.
I have not used the Whidden pointing die.

Do you trim then point?

 

[ncr92]

Do you trim then point?

Yes, I do the minimum trim necessary to get a batch of bullets to the same length before tipping. I'm about to start on a batch of Berger 144 Hybrids. I'll try to post some before and after photos.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

I'm about to start on a batch of Berger 144 Hybrids. I'll try to post some before and after photos.

I thought all the LRHT line came pre tipped, wasn't that part of the appeal? Or do you really see that large a benefit from closing them up all the way?

 

[ncr92]

I thought all the LRHT line came pre tipped, wasn't that part of the appeal? Or do you really see that large a benefit from closing them up all the way?

This is the first time I've used the 144s. I'd heard the same thing but I didn't think they looked any different to other Bergers so I've decided to go ahead and tip them. Will try to post some pics to show the difference.

 

[memilanuk]

If you're going to go down this particular rabbit hole, I'd suggest you sort by OAL first.

Pick a width for your 'bins' - 0.003 or 0.005" - and bin them accordingly.

This helps out a few ways.

If you're just looking for more consistent BC... congrats, you're done
(BTW - supposedly the AMU does - or used to - exactly this)

If you still want to point the bullets to eke out a little more BC... now you won't have to deal with the headache of having the pointing die adjusted for one length of bullet, and then having it either not touch a bullet that is significantly shorter or worse, over point and possibly damage the jacket of a bullet that is too long.

Remember, if you get sufficiently large lots, the open-tip match bullets we use can vary in OAL by 20 thou (or more). Yes, even the ones in the yellow boxes

If you plan to uniform the meplat before pointing, you still benefit from binning the bullets by OAL first. Otherwise, if you have a wide variation in OAL, you'll have a corresponding variation in the amount trimmed from the tips of each bullet. Some won't get touched at all, most will get varying degrees of a little trim, and a few may end up looking like wad cutters. DAMHIKT

That kind of variation will *not* point up the same, and usually the purpose is to get a more consistent BC first, and then a higher BC second. Whether the 1-2% improvement in BC from pointing is worth it is up to you. For the most part, I stick with sorting for match bullets. If the thought of squinting at a pair of calipers and doing the mental gymnastics of which bin to drop *this* bullet in makes your head hurt... consider getting a SortEez. They make things like multi-sort (by both OAL and BTO/bearing surface) almost trivial.

But back to the original question... I use a Whidden and have been pretty happy with it. I've heard from friends who've tested the Hoover version that it might *slightly* improve the BC of a given bullet as compared to the Whidden, but the numbers I recall were something like 2% vs. 1.5% improvement. Not enough to make me want to sell all my Whidden gear, but maybe if you're starting from scratch it might be a consideration.

 

[Mk32784]

If you're going to go down this particular rabbit hole, I'd suggest you sort by OAL first.

Pick a width for your 'bins' - 0.003 or 0.005" - and bin them accordingly.

This helps out a few ways.

If you're just looking for more consistent BC... congrats, you're done
(BTW - supposedly the AMU does - or used to - exactly this)

If you still want to point the bullets to eke out a little more BC... now you won't have to deal with the headache of having the pointing die adjusted for one length of bullet, and then having it either not touch a bullet that is significantly shorter or worse, over point and possibly damage the jacket of a bullet that is too long.

Remember, if you get sufficiently large lots, the open-tip match bullets we use can vary in OAL by 20 thou (or more). Yes, even the ones in the yellow boxes

If you plan to uniform the meplat before pointing, you still benefit from binning the bullets by OAL first. Otherwise, if you have a wide variation in OAL, you'll have a corresponding variation in the amount trimmed from the tips of each bullet. Some won't get touched at all, most will get varying degrees of a little trim, and a few may end up looking like wad cutters. DAMHIKT

That kind of variation will *not* point up the same, and usually the purpose is to get a more consistent BC first, and then a higher BC second. Whether the 1-2% improvement in BC from pointing is worth it is up to you. For the most part, I stick with sorting for match bullets. If the thought of squinting at a pair of calipers and doing the mental gymnastics of which bin to drop *this* bullet in makes your head hurt... consider getting a SortEez. They make things like multi-sort (by both OAL and BTO/bearing surface) almost trivial.

But back to the original question... I use a Whidden and have been pretty happy with it. I've heard from friends who've tested the Hoover version that it might *slightly* improve the BC of a given bullet as compared to the Whidden, but the numbers I recall were something like 2% vs. 1.5% improvement. Not enough to make me want to sell all my Whidden gear, but maybe if you're starting from scratch it might be a consideration.

I was just at an match and Brain Litz told me almost word for word the exact same thing lol. And about yellow boxes to.
Planning on doing some pointing of the 245 EOLS i have for next year's NF ELR hence my question about dies.

I am leaning towards the hoover it seems everyone speaks quite well of it.

 

[smoothy8500]

If you trim the tip, how much does it affect the projectiles weight?

 

[memilanuk]

If you trim the tip, how much does it affect the projectiles weight?

Not enough to matter.

 

[Govt Mule]

I tried a Whidden before I bought a Hoover. Nuf said. @milanuk gave the best advice for sorting prior to pointing. I do not trim meplates after testing trimmed & pointed vs not trimmed & pointed. Pointing can raise the BC quite a bit if you are shooting over 600 yards. Every lot of bullets will vary slightly, so be prepared to test the level of pointing with each new lot.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Along with all the good info above, I’ll reiterate, pick your desired sorting length and stick with it.

Litz made a good point one time. He said along the lines of, give someone 100 bullets and if the difference is .025 from longest to shortest and they will sort into 5 piles of .005 each.

Give the same person 100 bullets with a difference of .050 and they will sort them into piles of .010

The whole point is to be consistent. So no matter what, especially if it’s working, don’t change anything without testing or having a good reason.


I’d also go with the bullet tipping brand.

With the LRHT bullets, unless shoot F or BR, I wouldn’t worry with much. You likely won’t be able to tell a difference shooting off barricades.

 

[Sheldon N]

I sort by OAL and point with a Whidden die as described by milanuk above, been happy with the results.

 

[memilanuk]

If you sort by OAL and BTO using a SortEez, and plug the numbers into a spreadsheet, you can get a pretty good idea of the overall distribution of the bullets. This was for a particular batch of Berger 200.20X .30 cal bullets (lot #D24). Bins were (IIRC) 0.003" for OAL, and 0.001" for BTO.

 

[Mk32784]

I sort by OAL and point with a Whidden die as described by milanuk above, been happy with the results.

Do you do this for your PRS ammo?

 

[Sheldon N]

Do you do this for your PRS ammo?

Yes, I've done it for a while now.

It really only makes sense if you can get a nice big lot of bullets, several thousand at a time. I'll length sort them into usually 5 piles, the middle piles will be the largest and the shortest and longest bullet piles will be relatively small. Sorting goes fairly quick, maybe 45 minutes per 1k? Something to do in the evening in front of the TV.

I'll then point the bullets starting with the longest and work my way toward the shortest, adjusting the die as I move through each pile. You definitely notice a difference in pointing effort between the long and short bullets if you don't change the die settings, short bullets will be just barely kissed by the die where the long bullet has some resistance. Sorting helps even this out.

If I do a nice big pile like 3-4k I can just leave them in gallon ziploc bags and shoot them separate... work my way through "Longest" pile then shoot the "Middle-long" then the "Middle"... etc etc. Takes a day or two to sort but then I can shoot them over the course of a season.

 

[30cal user]

good thread and advice on sorting and pointing, it is easy to do and does make a difference at long ranges

 

[kriller134]

So between the Whidden Pointing Die and the Bulletipping one, anyone have any preferences? Or is there something else I am suppose to be looking at?

Only plan to point one or two bullets so I don't mind the Bulletipping individual inserts.

You are so gay.

 

[Mk32784]

Yes, I've done it for a while now.

It really only makes sense if you can get a nice big lot of bullets, several thousand at a time. I'll length sort them into usually 5 piles, the middle piles will be the largest and the shortest and longest bullet piles will be relatively small. Sorting goes fairly quick, maybe 45 minutes per 1k? Something to do in the evening in front of the TV.

I'll then point the bullets starting with the longest and work my way toward the shortest, adjusting the die as I move through each pile. You definitely notice a difference in pointing effort between the long and short bullets if you don't change the die settings, short bullets will be just barely kissed by the die where the long bullet has some resistance. Sorting helps even this out.

If I do a nice big pile like 3-4k I can just leave them in gallon ziploc bags and shoot them separate... work my way through "Longest" pile then shoot the "Middle-long" then the "Middle"... etc etc. Takes a day or two to sort but then I can shoot them over the course of a season.

Gotcha, were you able to measure any difference in down range performance? I haven't mentally decided it was worth it for PRS yet lol.

 

[Sheldon N]

Gotcha, were you able to measure any difference in down range performance? I haven't mentally decided it was worth it for PRS yet lol.

No, haven't done any comparison tests. Just did it based on feedback from F-Class shooters who I respected and who had tested and seen an improvement in both BC (from pointing) and reduction in group size at 1k (from sorting). Figured it seemed worthwhile to do.