Rifle Scopes Best Scope for a GAP-10 - Money no object (almost)

[Notso]

Hi all, I'm looking to order a new scope fairly soon for a GAP-10 in .308 that (hopefully) should arrive soon. Primary use will be 500-1000m steel, tactical precision rifle matches, etc.

I've currently got an S&B PMII 5-25 on my bolt gun, so I definitely give the edge to Schmitty. But I haven't kept up with the scope tech for a few years and would like to know what else is out there that would be a good fit for the GAP. I prefer LOTS of magnification - just personal preference, so anything under 20x isn't even in the discussion.

Talk me out of buying the same scope for the GAP as I have on the Bolt gun. USO, NF, Premier (although I recall QC issues with friends Premiers), the new Leupys, etc.

Is it worth waiting until the new stuff comes out at SHOT?

Thanks in advance!

 

[KUSA]

Order a Beast.

 

[Lead Heads]

Just stick with the S&B.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[30calDeath]

The 2014 Vortex line looks to be a winner particularly the 4.5-27x.

 

[Notso]

Order a Beast.

Is the optical quality of the Beast on par with the S&B? I've shot a fair amount through other NFs like the 5-22x NXS and honestly thought the optical clarity was average - at least compared to the S&B.

 

[KUSA]

Is the optical quality of the Beast on par with the S&B? I've shot a fair amount through other NFs like the 5-22x NXS and honestly thought the optical clarity was average - at least compared to the S&B.

I haven't gotten mine yet so I can't say 1st hand but Lowlight loves the Beast. It has German glass and is light years ahead of previous Nightforce scopes in this regard. You also get the legendary NF reliability. In the unlikely event you have an issue it's nice to have a lifetime warranty unlike the paltry 2 year warranty S&B has gone to. The way things have been at S&B it sounds like you have a high probability of using their service department. Lowlight commented recently that he had to send several S&Bs back for repair but has never sent a Nightforce back.
I'm not trying to turn this into a S&B bashing as they are one of the best brands just regurgitating some information to you. If I already had an S&B I would like it and keep it. However the 5-25 is a bit long in the tooth, has an exaggerated price tag, and crappy warranty.
Consider the Beast. The optics are on part with the best. It has greater field of view than any of its competitors and has modern features like digilum which gives you a choice of red or green and has an auto off feature.

 

[cramey74]

S&B!!!!! You have one so you already know why. The beast is not proven yet.

 

[Notso]

I haven't gotten mine yet so I can't say 1st hand but Lowlight loves the Beast. It has German glass and is light years ahead of previous Nightforce scopes in this regard. You also get the legendary NF reliability. In the unlikely event you have an issue it's nice to have a lifetime warranty unlike the paltry 2 year warranty S&B has gone to. The way things have been at S&B it sounds like you have a high probability of using their service department. Lowlight commented recently that he had to send several S&Bs back for repair but has never sent a Nightforce back.
I'm not trying to turn this into a S&B bashing as they are one of the best brands just regurgitating some information to you. If I already had an S&B I would like it and keep it. However the 5-25 is a bit long in the tooth, has an exaggerated price tag, and crappy warranty.
Consider the Beast. The optics are on part with the best. It has greater field of view than any of its competitors and has modern features like digilum which gives you a choice of red or green and has an auto off feature.

I'll certainly give them a look. Is the BEAST available or is it unobtanium at this point? Also, it seems I quickly looked one up on my iPhone when I was in a gunstore out of curiosity and it seemed like it was not offered in FFP. Is that true?

 

[KUSA]

I'll certainly give them a look. Is the BEAST available or is it unobtanium at this point? Also, it seems I quickly looked one up on my iPhone when I was in a gunstore out of curiosity and it seemed like it was not offered in FFP. Is that true?

The Beast only comes in ffp (don't confuse it with the ATACR). They have been unobtainium but are going to be released to the masses anytime. I recommend getting the MIL-R reticle.

 

[10fp]

I am S&B fanboy, own 3 but once people get the BEAST in their hands your going to see a lot of SB scopes up for sale.

 

[Crosshair]

If running at 25x a lot, the ATACR might be preferable to the Beast, since the reticle may be a little thinner... At least I'm assuming it is (correct me if I'm wrong).

As far as best glass available, the usual suspects would be:
S&B 5-25x
Premier Heritage 5-25x
Kahles 6-24x
Hensoldt 6-24x

You could also consider:
USO 5-25x
Nightforce beast/ATACR 5-25x
IOR 6-24x
Leupold Mk 8 3.5-25x
New Vortex Razor 4.5-27x

Every one of these scopes are excellent and would be right at home on your GAP.

 

[Shoottothrill]

Why do people keep telling people to get the Beast when there is no such thing on the market yet? Get a Unicorn to go with your Beast.

Get an S&B for your Gap-10 it's still the scope all others are compared to.

 

[jonthomps]

I'd give the S&B 3-20 a serious look. Great scope - love mine.

 

[RonboF117]

Given that one of your desires is high magnification; I'd say take a look at March. Ilya K. and I have discussed these scopes versus many others as he was writing his most recent review of high-end optics. He likes them a lot and they have more magnification than anyone until you get to dedicated spotting scopes.

 

[hk dave]

Don't forget to throw Steiner into the mix of stellar glass. At least my examples have been absolutely amazing.

 

[bkw1911]

Yeah I was shooting at dusk tonight and my buddy's steiner on 25x was very bright and clear. I had to turn my mk6 back to 12x to get as much brightness as the steiner

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[victorz]

If money is not object, go with the new Hensoldt ZF 3.5-26x56 Riflescope. It's new for this year, and very compact. If I have that money, I will buy. And don't forget to write us a good review if you got one.

 

[Notso]

If running at 25x a lot, the ATACR might be preferable to the Beast, since the reticle may be a little thinner... At least I'm assuming it is (correct me if I'm wrong).

As far as best glass available, the usual suspects would be:
S&B 5-25x
Premier Heritage 5-25x
Kahles 6-24x
Hensoldt 6-24x

You could also consider:
USO 5-25x
Nightforce beast/ATACR 5-25x
IOR 6-24x
Leupold Mk 8 3.5-25x
New Vortex Razor 4.5-27x

Every one of these scopes are excellent and would be right at home on your GAP.

I'm curious - I was leaning heavily towards a USO now that they have a 5-25x and I always like giving my $$ to a US company. But you put them in the 2nd tier based on glass. Is the USO glass inferior to S&B or just as good?

 

[ranger1183]

I'm very much an S&B fanboy but when it comes to an AR-10, I'd pick either 3-24x42 FFP March scope or the very inexpensive but amazingly good Vortex 2.5-10x32 FFP PST.

 

[Tailhunter]

I have a Bushnell XRS. Very nice in all aspects, including cost.

 

[Notso]

I'm very much an S&B fanboy but when it comes to an AR-10, I'd pick either 3-24x42 FFP March scope or the very inexpensive but amazingly good Vortex 2.5-10x32 FFP PST.

Out of curiosity, why would you go with those other scopes just because its an "AR-10" platform?

 

[netranger6]

BUSHY elite ers, 3.5-21.

 

[ranger1183]

I'm very much an S&B fanboy but when it comes to an AR-10, I'd pick either 3-24x42 FFP March scope or the very inexpensive but amazingly good Vortex 2.5-10x32 FFP PST.

Out of curiosity, why would you go with those other scopes just because its an "AR-10" platform?

Every AR-10 platform I've carried is a beast compared to the standard issue M4. Both the 3-24x42 FFP March and the Vortex 2.5-10x32 FFP PST are "small-ish" light weight scopes compared to a full size 5-25x56 S&B that weights significantly more. Because the AR-10, the ammo & the magazines are so much heavier, and that extra weight adds up in a hurry, I'd stick with as light a "full function" rifle scope as I could get away with.

 

[netranger6]

Every AR-10 platform I've carried is a beast compared to the standard issue M4. Both the 3-24x42 FFP March and the Vortex 2.5-10x32 FFP PST are "small-ish" light weight scopes compared to a full size 5-25x56 S&B that weights significantly more. Because the AR-10, the ammo & the magazines are so much heavier, and that extra weight adds up in a hurry, I'd stick with as light a "full function" rifle scope as I could get away with.

What he said.


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[JSF]

Every AR-10 platform I've carried is a beast compared to the standard issue M4. Both the 3-24x42 FFP March and the Vortex 2.5-10x32 FFP PST are "small-ish" light weight scopes compared to a full size 5-25x56 S&B that weights significantly more. Because the AR-10, the ammo & the magazines are so much heavier, and that extra weight adds up in a hurry, I'd stick with as light a "full function" rifle scope as I could get away with.

Listen to this guy. You put a 5-25 on the gap and it will be a heavy pig. I went with the nf f1 for a good compromise. If you are shooting mostly from prone it won't be a big issue, but I bought mine for hunting yotes and to run in some of the matches. I wanted to keep it as light as possible for better maneuverability. It all depends what you are going to do with it.

 

[Powermac]

For a lighter scope i'dt ake a hard look at NF 2,5-10x42.

If you still want something with higher magnification, and price is of no concern my choices would be.
Having an AR the lowest power setting at 5x is too much for closer moving targets, 3x is a lot more convenient, at least for me.
If you're just plinking targets at the range it does not matter really though.

S&B PM2 3-20x50 MSR.
S&B PM2 3-27x56
Hensoldt 3,5-26x56

 

[Shoottothrill]

The Gap 10 is a heavy rifle period. I went with the 5-25 MSR S&B and really like it. I shoot it mostly prone or from a bench. I don't do comps. The difference would probable be a pound, not sure thats a big deal.

 

[Notso]

The Gap 10 is a heavy rifle period. I went with the 5-25 MSR S&B and really like it. I shoot it mostly prone or from a bench. I don't do comps. The difference would probable be a pound, not sure thats a big deal.

That's what I was thinking too. The GAP is not a lightweight rifle to start with. What mount do you have the S&B in for the GAP? ANy chance you could post or PM me some pics of the S&B mounted on the GAP? Thanks.

 

[Shoottothrill]

That's what I was thinking too. The GAP is not a lightweight rifle to start with. What mount do you have the S&B in for the GAP? ANy chance you could post or PM me some pics of the S&B mounted on the GAP? Thanks.

I just used the 20 moa mount that came with my Gap-10, works great. Here's some pics.

By the way I friggin love this setup and it hammers. Hitting a 12x12 at 640 yard the other day was easy.

 

[Notso]

I just used the 20 moa mount that came with my Gap-10, works great. Here's some pics.

By the way I friggin love this setup and it hammers. Hitting a 12x12 at 640 yard the other day was easy.

Excellent, thanks. I forgot about the 20 MOA mounts that comes with it. No issue with getting good eye relief position?

 

[ZLBubba]

For my 17" 308 upper, I use a USO 3.2-17 with the H25 reticle. For my 6mm Creed, I use an S&B 5-25 MSR. Honestly, I'd weigh how much you're going to be shooting beyond 800 yards. If it's a lot, then go with something at least 3-15. If not, then get a USO 1.8-10 and enjoy!

 

[maggitas]

Money no object a S&B 3-20x56
Money somewhat an object Nightforce 3-15x50F1

The new Steiner glass is great but their MSRP has increased. Hensoldt glass is great as well. I am a huge NF fan boy. If you could swing the Beast then that is the way I would go.

 

[Chiller]

The new Vortex Razor will be on mine. S&B has now gone to a 2 year warranty?........Really?

 

[SFree]

Get a Bushy ERS/XRS or wait a little bit and stick the new Bushy 3-12-44 LRHS on it.

Then buy $2500 (at least) worth of ammo by not foolin with S&B...

 

[KUSA]

The new Vortex Razor will be on mine. S&B has now gone to a 2 year warranty?........Really?

2 years is all you get. Buying used now means you don't get much if any warranty.

 

[Shoottothrill]

Excellent, thanks. I forgot about the 20 MOA mounts that comes with it. No issue with getting good eye relief position?

Nope no problems.

 

[CSTactical]

If you do not need FFP then look at the Nightforce ATACR and the 5.5-22x. The Bushnell 4.5-30x are also very nice. I run a Bushnell 3.5-21x50mm on my 18" AR10 and love the combo.

Mike @ CSTACTICAL

 

[-Nick-]

I've had both the ST-10 and the SN3 on my old GAP-10. Looking back I made shots out to 1250 just as easy with the ST-10 as I did with the SN3. I agree with ranger1183. I have the Vortex 2.5-10x32 on my SPR in .223 and I was banging steel at 905 with no issues other than not being able to see the steel move which had more to do with the caliber than the glass.

 

[997/2man]

I just used the 20 moa mount that came with my Gap-10, works great. Here's some pics.

By the way I friggin love this setup and it hammers. Hitting a 12x12 at 640 yard the other day was easy.

I just popped a boner.


Seriously, nice rifle/scope. If I start saving now...

 

[Notso]

I've had both the ST-10 and the SN3 on my old GAP-10. Looking back I made shots out to 1250 just as easy with the ST-10 as I did with the SN3. I agree with ranger1183. I have the Vortex 2.5-10x32 on my SPR in .223 and I was banging steel at 905 with no issues other than not being able to see the steel move which had more to do with the caliber than the glass.

I think this is precisely why I prefer higher magnification scopes. I get that you don't need 25x to "hit" targets out to 1000 yds - but I like to "see" the splash on steel through the scope and be able to make immediate corrections without the need for a spotter or having to switch to a spotting scope to see where the impact was.

 

[-Nick-]

I think this is precisely why I prefer higher magnification scopes. I get that you don't need 25x to "hit" targets out to 1000 yds - but I like to "see" the splash on steel through the scope and be able to make immediate corrections without the need for a spotter or having to switch to a spotting scope to see where the impact was.

I never said I didn't see splash or impacts with my GAP-10. I said I didn't see much splash with my .223 which was a result of the caliber, not the scope.

 

[Notso]

I never said I didn't see splash or impacts with my GAP-10. I said I didn't see much splash with my .223 which was a result of the caliber, not the scope.

Fair enough.

 

[-Nick-]

I'm also going to rehash the same subject that's been brought up before. Being on 25x can be as much as a detriment as it is a benefit. I want to be able to follow the bullet not just at the target but also through it's path. Being focused in on just the target doesn't tell you what happening before the bullet even reaches the target, and sometimes you'll miss what's happening at the target because you're focused on the intended impact area. It all really comes down to the shooter though and preference, and I'm a firm believer you can always dial back so I'm not arguing against more magnification. I think that too many people are quick to think they "need" more magnification when it's really more a "want" and when they're unsuccessful their go-to is always the equipment.

 

[Notso]

I'm also going to rehash the same subject that's been brought up before. Being on 25x can be as much as a detriment as it is a benefit. I want to be able to follow the bullet not just at the target but also through it's path. Being focused in on just the target doesn't tell you what happening before the bullet even reaches the target, and sometimes you'll miss what's happening at the target because you're focused on the intended impact area. It all really comes down to the shooter though and preference, and I'm a firm believer you can always dial back so I'm not arguing against more magnification. I think that too many people are quick to think they "need" more magnification when it's really more a "want" and when they're unsuccessful their go-to is always the equipment.

Please don't take this the wrong way because I honestly admit to not know the answer here, but what does "seeing the bullet trajectory in flight" buy you that seeing the impact doesn't? If you see the bullet miss left by 2 mils at 1000 yds but you see something during the TOF of the bullet, are you going to do something different than adjust right by 2 mils for the follow up shot?

I've watched lots of bullet trace and thought "wow, that was cool" but I'm scratching my head as to what I would realistically change that was different than the final POI would indicate. Certainly, if you miss by so much that the impact is outside your scope FOV - that's one thing. But with proper dope, good technique and a halfway decent wind call - I just can't see that being an issue very often. What am I missing?

 

[-Nick-]

Please don't take this the wrong way because I honestly admit to not know the answer here, but what does "seeing the bullet trajectory in flight" buy you that seeing the impact doesn't? If you see the bullet miss left by 2 mils at 1000 yds but you see something during the TOF of the bullet, are you going to do something different than adjust right by 2 mils for the follow up shot?

I've watched lots of bullet trace and thought "wow, that was cool" but I'm scratching my head as to what I would realistically change that was different than the final POI would indicate. Certainly, if you miss by so much that the impact is outside your scope FOV - that's one thing. But with proper dope, good technique and a halfway decent wind call - I just can't see that being an issue very often. What am I missing?

Trace is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm also talking about over-focusing on the target and merely watching for impact and splash and not what the trace is doing i.e. is it going in front or behind the target. A lot of shooters out there assume because they see splash below that they're under shooting the target so they keep dialing up when if they watched the trace they'd see it went behind the target.

Add: To get dope, good technique, and decent wind calls you have to be able to do all of the above first.

 

[Notso]

Trace is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm also talking about over-focusing on the target and merely watching for impact and splash and not what the trace is doing i.e. is it going in front or behind the target. A lot of shooters out there assume because they see splash below that they're under shooting the target so they keep dialing up when if they watched the trace they'd see it went behind the target.

Add: To get dope, good technique, and decent wind calls you have to be able to do all of the above first.

OK, So just to clarify, you're only interested in trace at the very last few yards to the target then to see if it hits in front of or behind the plate and NOT what the trace is doing at the halfway point, right?

 

[-Nick-]

OK, So just to clarify, you're only interested in trace at the very last few yards to the target then to see if it hits in front of or behind the plate and NOT what the trace is doing at the halfway point, right?

Rather than taking this thread down the rabbit hole any further I'll send you a pm.

 

[ridenrunwv]

Much appreciated... So many threads I've been following getting off topic lately.

 

[Notso]

Rather than taking this thread down the rabbit hole any further I'll send you a pm.

Thanks for the PM. Reply sent. Its an interesting topic though. Probably worth its own thread about the utility of using trace in the shooting process. I didn't mean to sidetrack this one.....

Edit: see new thread in the "stupid marksmanship question" forum.