Best Short Action for LR & Hunting

[Ironman8]

I currently have a 6.5CM Tikka CTR (20”) in a MDT Chassis as my one and only bolt gun. It’s a sweet shooter and I’ve taken it out to 1k, so I know it will get them there, but I’m not entirely sure how well it will do on game larger than deer at somewhat extended ranges, say 500-600+ (Not looking to stretch too much further than that on game really). I’m mainly thinking elk as that’s what I hunt with a bow, but likely will do a rifle hunt at some point. I’ve also hunted Nilgai, which might be the toughest to put down in NA. Moose is likely on the table too.

If I were to re-barrel down the road, what other short action caliber would give more energy down range for both hunting and pushing further out for target shooting? With this new caliber, I’d like to keep the 20” barrel form factor with hunting in mind since I’m adding suppressor length to that.

I also think there’s a way to turn the Tikka into a long action, but I’d just as likely go buy a new rifle before I do that and keep the 6.5 for PRS.

Any suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[BND2763]

Elk capable at 500-600 out of a short action and standard bolt with a 20” barrel is a tall order. What terminal performance are you comfortable with? Perhaps that’s a good place to start.

If your goal is to shoot large game at those distances with your current action, maybe consider a magnum bolt face or modifying the bolt stop to accept a longer cartridge.

 

[Ironman8]

I don’t know if there’s a “number” I’m looking for necessarily. Just some subjective or objective suggestions for a better caliber that will deliver better energy than the 6.5CM at range.

Like I mentioned though, getting a new caliber and keeping the 6.5CM is on the table, but I am more of a one caliber guy, hence the question...keeps things simple and only have to learn one wind/elevation hold at distance.

 

[jbuck88]

The std bolt face is a sticking point. If you step up, the 300wsm would work well.

 

[dirthead1]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 308 and the right bullet on elk at 500 ish yards.

 

[GMZ]

Elk to 500 and moose?

WSM bolt face and a 7 SAUM or 300 WSM.

 

[jbuck88]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 308 and the right bullet on elk at 500 ish yards.

And plenty of people hunt deer with a 22lr.
Some hunting guides won't even let you hunt elk with a 308win. I'm not saying the 308 in inadequate for elk. Just stating everyone has an opinion.

 

[Kickin45]

6.5 PRC

 

[dirthead1]

And plenty of people hunt deer with a 22lr.
Some hunting guides won't even let you hunt elk with a 308win. I'm not saying the 308 in inadequate for elk. Just stating everyone has an opinion.

But he was asking about rebarreling his Tikka CTR to something more adequate for elk out to 500-600 yards. If those are the requirements, that limits the options. I agree there are many calibers that would be “better” but would also require much more than a simple rebarrel.

 

[Ironman8]

But he was asking about rebarreling his Tikka CTR to something more adequate for elk out to 500-600 yards. If those are the requirements, that limits the options. I agree there are many calibers that would be “better” but would also require much more than a simple rebarrel.

replying to both of you here, but my understanding is 6.5CM and .308 energy are essentially equal at 500yds, so I’d essentially be in the same boat and not seeing any real gain, not to mention more wind drift and drop with .308.

 

[dirthead1]

replying to both of you here, but my understanding is 6.5CM and .308 energy are essentially equal at 500yds, so I’d essentially be in the same boat and not seeing any real gain, not to mention more wind drift and drop with .308.

Yes you are kind of stuck if you want to use the short action and standard bolt face. Keep the tikka for prs and get something else for your hunting requirements is probably the best option.

 

[david walter]

A fast twist 7-08 with the 190 or 180 very high BC (G1 .700+) Hornady Bullets will get you there with more punch than a 6.5 creed or a 308. And better ballistics in the wind.

 

[BND2763]

replying to both of you here, but my understanding is 6.5CM and .308 energy are essentially equal at 500yds, so I’d essentially be in the same boat and not seeing any real gain, not to mention more wind drift and drop with .308.

Unfortunately there’s no magic. You’re working with a size constraint and pressure constraint. The physics demand a compromise be made somewhere.

 

[Ironman8]

The std bolt face is a sticking point. If you step up, the 300wsm would work well.

This is interesting to me based on a quick look at ballistics compared to 300WM. I can do the research, but figured I’d just ask, what is needed to change my bolt face to a magnum? Is it as simple as just buying a magnum bolt from Tikka and plug and play with a barrel change?

Unfortunately there’s no magic. You’re working with a size constraint and pressure constraint. The physics demand a compromise be made somewhere.

I don’t disagree, I’m a reloader so I do understand what you’re saying. Just trying to find a happy medium. Not necessarily looking for 300WM performance from a short action, but maybe a short mag of some sort is the answer?

 

[Ironman8]

A fast twist 7-08 with the 190 or 180 very high BC (G1 .700+) Hornady Bullets will get you there with more punch than a 6.5 creed or a 308. And better ballistics in the wind.

I would have to do a little research on this. What would be considered a fast twist?

 

[hereinaz]

LRI sells Tikka bolts.

WSM, SAUM, or Sherman Short mags.

I like 7mm.

 

[MK20]

Wow. Folks think you need to launch the space shuttle at an animal to kill it. The Scandinavians have been using 6.5x55 which in the military loading is very similar to 6.5 CM. They have been killing moose for a century with it. Folks have been killing elk with .243 rifles for several generations. Kyle lamb is shooting lots of elk with a 6mm Creed AR-10.
You can easily kill any animal you mentioned out to well beyond 600 m with the rifle you currently possess.

If anyone gets pissy about this and tries to say it is unethical I am going to post video after video of it working until you shut up.

If you can hit it you have enough energy in your rifle to kill it at the ranges you mentioned.

 

[MK20]

If you do want to swap bolts you buy the new bolt, put it in the action, and then headspace the new barrel to your new bolt. It isn’t hard. If you do it just ask here and we will walk you through it.
If you are itching to rebarrel and don’t want to switch the bolt, 7mm-08
If you swap the bolt, go 300 WSM or something like that.

 

[jbuck88]

I'm pretty sure they have marksmanship test in Scandinavia to be able to hunt.

I'm not saying you need more then a 6.5cm to hunt Elk, my backup rifle is a 6.5cm. No way in hell I'm taking a 600+yd shot at an elk with it. It's about handicapping yourself. Sure smaller calibers will work under ideal circumstances, but too many people ignore them in the heat of the moment. I find at least a few dead elk that were wounded and ran off to die every year. It is horrible to come across the wasted animal and opportunity for the next guy because some asshole tried to make a shot he shouldn't have tried to.

IMHO. If your on here asking for a cartridge that will work, you don't have the experience to shoot a smaller caliber.

So sure it will work if your willing walk away from a less then perfect shot.

 

[Whiskey_Tango6.5]

Not sure what your MV would be with the shorty and a can, but I know a 26" CM will launch a 156 EOL at 2,800+. That's 1,800 ft-lbs at 500yds.

 

[jbuck88]

Apple to oranges, but my 20" proof shoots factory ELD-X at 2592fps. Or 1,180 ft-lb at 500yds

 

[MK20]

And many animals are wounded by dudes shooting howitzers that they can’t shoot well. As long as you can shoot either equally well, go for more energy on target. Focus on what you can shoot most accurately. Worry about energy second.

 

[jbuck88]

And many animals are wounded by dudes shooting howitzers that they can’t shoot well. As long as you can shoot either equally well, go for more energy on target. Focus on what you can shoot most accurately. Worry about energy second.

I agree 100%. As long as your treating the range your shooting the same.

 

[hereinaz]

Wow. Folks think you need to launch the space shuttle at an animal to kill it. The Scandinavians have been using 6.5x55 which in the military loading is very similar to 6.5 CM. They have been killing moose for a century with it. Folks have been killing elk with .243 rifles for several generations. Kyle lamb is shooting lots of elk with a 6mm Creed AR-10.
You can easily kill any animal you mentioned out to well beyond 600 m with the rifle you currently possess.

If anyone gets pissy about this and tries to say it is unethical I am going to post video after video of it working until you shut up.

If you can hit it you have enough energy in your rifle to kill it at the ranges you mentioned.

Not sure why you got worked up, it was OP who asked how to get more energy out of a short action...

 

[Heavyopp]

Bolt swap should be fairly easy soon...

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The title says it all. This has been overdue for a long time and we are happy to finally be able to offer this. Details: Stainless bolt body and handle Complete fire control Bar stock machined bolt shroud. -No plastic or Zinc casting .480 and .545 diameter bolt faces available We might do a...

www.snipershide.com

 

[408w]

Keep your gun and buy a t3x in 300 win mag or wsm for a hunting rifle

 

[7WSMShooter]

Get a new bolt from LRI and do a 7WSM or 7SAUM. If I’m going to hunt at extended
Ranges, I take my 7WSM. Shorter ranges for deer my 300BO with 110Barnes bullets
Or shorty 308. For me, It’s not about the argument about ethical kills Yada, yada, etc.
I know the higher BC on the 7s and the velocity help me at longer range with
Wind and bullet drop so I can place a more accurate shot. And I won’t take a shot I know I can’t make. With all the excellent bullet choices in the 155-190 gr range with high BCs and good construction for game, a 7WSM, Saum, or Sherman, will allow you
To not be as perfect on your range or wind estimation and still make an accurate shot placement with more energy on target than lesser short action cartridges.
If you change to a LA cartridge, well there are quite a few Calibers to choose from
That step it up from there. But cost wise for what you’re asking, Bolt and barrel from LRI, barrel vice and action wrench and swap back and forth between your 6.5 and 7 depending on what you want to do for the day.

 

[hereinaz]

Get a new bolt from LRI and do a 7WSM or 7SAUM. If I’m going to hunt at extended
Ranges, I take my 7WSM. Shorter ranges for deer my 300BO with 110Barnes bullets
Or shorty 308. For me, It’s not about the argument about ethical kills Yada, yada, etc.
I know the higher BC on the 7s and the velocity help me at longer range with
Wind and bullet drop so I can place a more accurate shot. And I won’t take a shot I know I can’t make. With all the excellent bullet choices in the 155-190 gr range with high BCs and good construction for game, a 7WSM, Saum, or Sherman, will allow you
To not be as perfect on your range or wind estimation and still make an accurate shot placement with more energy on target than lesser short action cartridges.
If you change to a LA cartridge, well there are quite a few Calibers to choose from
That step it up from there. But cost wise for what you’re asking, Bolt and barrel from LRI, barrel vice and action wrench and swap back and forth between your 6.5 and 7 depending on what you want to do for the day.

This^^^^^

Better velocity and BC for better external ballistics is why I personally go with a fast .243/6mm or a 7mm magnum.

Its not about the energy, per se, its about the increased precision.

If you hand load, buy a pile of the same 140 grain 6.5 bullet and run a 6.5 prc/saum/Sherman and a 6.5 cm.

 

[jakelly]

The bolt face is only part of the problem with your current set-up. You still have the magazine constraints. If you had factory t3 (not CTR) bottom plastic, you could take advantage of your extra action length. Alter the bolt stop, swap mags, and press on.

As it is (chassis - standard boltface - 20” barrel) I don’t think changing anything is worth the cost. Ballistically you’re not going to gain leaps and bounds. If I were wanting something different in your position, I’d build a dedicated rifle.

If you decide to stay with your current setup, my pic would be a 300 SAUM or maybe 300 RCM using a 155 Scenar and leaning on it. That bullet is a game changer for 30 cals.

 

[westhewelder]

I currently have a 6.5CM Tikka CTR (20”) in a MDT Chassis as my one and only bolt gun. It’s a sweet shooter and I’ve taken it out to 1k, so I know it will get them there, but I’m not entirely sure how well it will do on game larger than deer at somewhat extended ranges, say 500-600+ (Not looking to stretch too much further than that on game really). I’m mainly thinking elk as that’s what I hunt with a bow, but likely will do a rifle hunt at some point. I’ve also hunted Nilgai, which might be the toughest to put down in NA. Moose is likely on the table too.

If I were to re-barrel down the road, what other short action caliber would give more energy down range for both hunting and pushing further out for target shooting? With this new caliber, I’d like to keep the 20” barrel form factor with hunting in mind since I’m adding suppressor length to that.

I also think there’s a way to turn the Tikka into a long action, but I’d just as likely go buy a new rifle before I do that and keep the 6.5 for PRS.

Any suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.

Extensive Field-Tested Rifle & Cartridge Research - BallisticStudies.com

Expert rifle & cartridge research, carefully compiled through extensive field-testing & freely offered to the firearms community.

www.ballisticstudies.com

Search here for your caliber, 6.5 CM. I think you will find alot of answers. I think you will find that it's all about bullet performance at whatever range your target is at.

 

[kthomas]

I'm pretty sure they have marksmanship test in Scandinavia to be able to hunt.

I'm not saying you need more then a 6.5cm to hunt Elk, my backup rifle is a 6.5cm. No way in hell I'm taking a 600+yd shot at an elk with it. It's about handicapping yourself. Sure smaller calibers will work under ideal circumstances, but too many people ignore them in the heat of the moment. I find at least a few dead elk that were wounded and ran off to die every year. It is horrible to come across the wasted animal and opportunity for the next guy because some asshole tried to make a shot he shouldn't have tried to.

IMHO. If your on here asking for a cartridge that will work, you don't have the experience to shoot a smaller caliber.

So sure it will work if your willing walk away from a less then perfect shot.

A lot of people can't properly shoot a larger recoiling rifle and still manage fundamentals properly, especially in a light/ultra light hunting rifle setup.

North Americans have a fascination with being overgunned when hunting, and it's done a huge disservice in hunters with how poorly they shoot and the bad habits they develop as a result.

I know Caylen W. & Phil V. on the Modern Day Sniper have discussed this on their podcast, so have Marc & Frank in theirs. They've both independently seen this in their courses from people with lightweight hunting rifles. Frank actually had an entertaining rant about this exact topic in a recent podcast.

More power is not a replacement for shot placement. It's about finding a healthy balance between the two, and for every shooter that's different. But being overgunned can hurt more than it helps.

 

[kthomas]

That said, I think 6.5's and 7mm's are the proverbial sweet spot for most shooters.

A 6.5 PRC/SAUM, or 7 SAUM, SST, etc. are great cartridges for North American game without being too punishing on the shooter.

 

[jbuck88]

A lot of people can't properly shoot a larger recoiling rifle and still manage fundamentals properly, especially in a light/ultra light hunting rifle setup.

North Americans have a fascination with being overgunned when hunting, and it's done a huge disservice in hunters with how poorly they shoot and the bad habits they develop as a result.

I know Caylen W. & Phil V. on the Modern Day Sniper have discussed this on their podcast, so have Marc & Frank in theirs. They've both independently seen this in their courses from people with lightweight hunting rifles. Frank actually had an entertaining rant about this exact topic in a recent podcast.

More power is not a replacement for shot placement. It's about finding a healthy balance between the two, and for every shooter that's different. But being overgunned can hurt more than it helps.

I agree with you. All the articles I use to read mention the 30-06 and 7mm Rem Mag as the upper end of shootability for the general public. I'm not saying you need the biggest round out there. I am saying you should use the biggest round you can shoot.

And went full circle on lightweight rifles. I owned them all and sold them all as well. I have settled on a sporter weight of around 7lbs bare as my ideal weight. That is for me and is as personal as cartridge choice.

I'm aware of frank, I don't know who those other people you mentioned are. However, I would probably agree with some of what their saying, but not all.

We all agree that we can shoot a 223rem easier them a 338lapua. So as hunters we need to find out where are limits of recoil are and then decide our ethical range and shot angles.

There is no right answer, and probably not much for wrong answers as long as you use common sense.

 

[moosemeat]

The 6.5x55 was loaded with heavy for caliber bullets, I wanna say over 150 grains, and used inside 200 yards 99% of the time. They also used it cause they had it. It's never been ideal.
7mm Saum or 280 AI if your willing to do the bolt stop and mag for the 280.
I wouldn't shoot a elk at 600 yards personally with anything less than a 300wm/PRC level cartridge loaded with bullets that penitrate and retain weight.
Back Country Hunting podcast also talks about many outfitters banning 6.5 creed from their camps because they lose to many elk. It's about 1) shot placement 2) enough energy to break heavy bones and get to the vital organs and 3) bullet constructed to do it.
Also agree don't overgun yourself. If you can't handle a 300 mag maybe a 7 mag. Always with a heavy bullet.

 

[Jigstick]

Grab a defiance intermediate length sheep port action and bottom metal. Spin up a 300wsm. And seat the VLDs way out and don’t look back.

 

[DJL2]

A lot of people can't properly shoot a larger recoiling rifle and still manage fundamentals properly, especially in a light/ultra light hunting rifle setup.

North Americans have a fascination with being overgunned when hunting, and it's done a huge disservice in hunters with how poorly they shoot and the bad habits they develop as a result.

I know Caylen W. & Phil V. on the Modern Day Sniper have discussed this on their podcast, so have Marc & Frank in theirs. They've both independently seen this in their courses from people with lightweight hunting rifles. Frank actually had an entertaining rant about this exact topic in a recent podcast.

More power is not a replacement for shot placement. It's about finding a healthy balance between the two, and for every shooter that's different. But being overgunned can hurt more than it helps.

A HUGE fascination with being over gunned... and then choosing the worst possible bullet designs because "muh meat damage." How folks parse "I want to damage massive amounts of tissue to kill quickly and cleanly, but I don't want to damage any meat I might eat" is always fascinating to me, especially when the answer is "I carry a .500 Ass Kicker express, loaded with a bullet that retains 100% of its mass, so I duplicate the performance of a bow and ignore thousands of years of technical advances when shooting my rifle."

 

[jsthntn247]

Keep your rifle the way it is for plinking and get another one for hunting.

 

[Clem]

I'm going to jump on the 6.5 PRC and 7 SAUM wagon. Need a new bolt/boltface but that's easy enough. I also wholeheartedly agree with the above comment. Have fun!

 

[Nivium]

6.5 PRC

+1

 

[BobKaare]

I currently have a 6.5CM Tikka CTR (20”) in a MDT Chassis as my one and only bolt gun. It’s a sweet shooter and I’ve taken it out to 1k, so I know it will get them there, but I’m not entirely sure how well it will do on game larger than deer at somewhat extended ranges, say 500-600+ (Not looking to stretch too much further than that on game really). I’m mainly thinking elk as that’s what I hunt with a bow, but likely will do a rifle hunt at some point. I’ve also hunted Nilgai, which might be the toughest to put down in NA. Moose is likely on the table too.

If I were to re-barrel down the road, what other short action caliber would give more energy down range for both hunting and pushing further out for target shooting? With this new caliber, I’d like to keep the 20” barrel form factor with hunting in mind since I’m adding suppressor length to that.

I also think there’s a way to turn the Tikka into a long action, but I’d just as likely go buy a new rifle before I do that and keep the 6.5 for PRS.

Any suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.

284 Win would make some sense, if I remember correctly, the CTR mags should allow 2.95 COAL.
Will outperform most (all?) other .470 bolt face cartridges at that length.

 

[st1650]

Old thread but whats everyone's thoughts about
7-6.5 PRC vs
7 SAUM vs
7 WSM vs
300-7 WSM vs
6.5 PRC shooting the Berger 156 EOLs ?

The 7mms would be loaded with the 162s at 2.975in (Hawkins WSM SA mag coal is 2.980)
Seems like all the 7s are very close in performance with the WSM having a bit more case capacity, maybe an extra 100 FPS ?
Thinking about a 24-26in MTU in heavy Foundation stock with a large brake so not a lightweight packing rifle.
I like the 7-6.5 PRC because of availability of Lapua brass and my smith has the reamer but the 7WSM (available as a Prefit) could be tempting as Hornady offers factory 162 ELD-X (probably pretty scarce otoh) and the brass is okay-ish. 6.5 PRC is the easy button but I'm not thrilled with the 143 ELD-X and have no experience with the heavies except for short range with the 156 Onyx which is an angel of death but only usable in short range due to its very low BC.
7 SAUM is a great cartridge but worried about brass quality (Nosler has been less than great in my experience)

Use would be black bear and other med size game at 500-600 yards, perhaps ELK/Moose at 400yards and inside

 

[b6graham]

Old thread but whats everyone's thoughts about
7-6.5 PRC vs
7 SAUM vs
7 WSM vs
300-7 WSM vs
6.5 PRC shooting the Berger 156 EOLs ?

The 7mms would be loaded with the 162s at 2.975in (Hawkins WSM SA mag coal is 2.980)
Seems like all the 7s are very close in performance with the WSM having a bit more case capacity, maybe an extra 100 FPS ?
Thinking about a 24-26in MTU in heavy Foundation stock with a large brake so not a lightweight packing rifle.
I like the 7-6.5 PRC because of availability of Lapua brass and my smith has the reamer but the 7WSM (available as a Prefit) could be tempting as Hornady offers factory 162 ELD-X (probably pretty scarce otoh) and the brass is okay-ish. 6.5 PRC is the easy button but I'm not thrilled with the 143 ELD-X and have no experience with the heavies except for short range with the 156 Onyx which is an angel of death but only usable in short range due to its very low BC.
7 SAUM is a great cartridge but worried about brass quality (Nosler has been less than great in my experience)

Use would be black bear and other med size game at 500-600 yards, perhaps ELK/Moose at 400yards and inside

do you have an action that can take 2.980"?

6.5PRC with 156 EOL and 7SAUM with 162/175 aren't all that different besides diameter

7SAUM ADG brass...if you can find it

 

[st1650]

do you have an action that can take 2.980"?

6.5PRC with 156 EOL and 7SAUM with 162/175 aren't all that different besides diameter

7SAUM ADG brass...if you can find it

Arc Archmedes, should be no issues with ejection port length and feeding.
No ADG brass for 7 SAUM in Canada.

 

[b6graham]

Arc Archmedes, should be no issues with ejection port length and feeding.
No ADG brass for 7 SAUM in Canada.

it's not the ejection port that matters. it's the opening in the magwell of the action itself. similar to how a R700 needs to be notched to use non-binder plate mags. example Zermatt actions were 2.96" coal and are now 2.98" coal for the hawkins stuff

oh boo canada then

 

[st1650]

it's not the ejection port that matters. it's the opening in the magwell of the action itself. similar to how a R700 needs to be notched to use non-binder plate mags. example Zermatt actions were 2.96" coal and are now 2.98" coal for the hawkins stuff

oh boo canada then

Good point, I just assumed the ARCs are full length but you might be right, they could be 2.96. I'll have to measure it.

 

[Nivium]

Old thread but whats everyone's thoughts about
7-6.5 PRC vs
7 SAUM vs
7 WSM vs
300-7 WSM vs
6.5 PRC shooting the Berger 156 EOLs ?

The 7mms would be loaded with the 162s at 2.975in (Hawkins WSM SA mag coal is 2.980)
Seems like all the 7s are very close in performance with the WSM having a bit more case capacity, maybe an extra 100 FPS ?
Thinking about a 24-26in MTU in heavy Foundation stock with a large brake so not a lightweight packing rifle.
I like the 7-6.5 PRC because of availability of Lapua brass and my smith has the reamer but the 7WSM (available as a Prefit) could be tempting as Hornady offers factory 162 ELD-X (probably pretty scarce otoh) and the brass is okay-ish. 6.5 PRC is the easy button but I'm not thrilled with the 143 ELD-X and have no experience with the heavies except for short range with the 156 Onyx which is an angel of death but only usable in short range due to its very low BC.
7 SAUM is a great cartridge but worried about brass quality (Nosler has been less than great in my experience)

Use would be black bear and other med size game at 500-600 yards, perhaps ELK/Moose at 400yards and inside

6.5 PRC. My experience with 143 ELD-X has been pretty good, but most are using the 147 ELD-Ms now, even for hunting, the 156 bergers, or the lightweight hammer hunters. All will work for midsize game to 800 yards and elk/moose/nilgai to 500. No reason to overcomplicate things