Yes, but what difference will it make when America ejects these traitor types again in 4 years because they have short term memories? Keep in mind that at least 74mil people think these corrupt people are in the right and that the current admin is the evil ones. I don’t know how you walk back from that. America is too polarized on ideologies at the moment and based on current trends, the generational change is not going in our favor. So have lots of kids, raise them right, mentor others and maybe just maybe we can all come to the middle again. But as long as this type of lawlessness is allowed to go on without repercussions then I never see this meeting in the middle again ever coming to fruition.
I really do "catch what you're throwing" and would humbly suggest that on this topic you & I in particular are likely over 90% in agreement here. I just didn't want to lose sight of that from the get-go.
When it comes to the legal precedents I mentioned- I would "argue" that hashing that out actually might make quite a bit of difference moving forward. It might not have the same outcome either of us are envisioning though. If you're looking for the "usual suspects" to be held accountable and thrown into prison as a result of their actions that (in my opinion at least likely span decades) then that might not be the likely outcome.
However- if these pardons are challenged (I think I previously mentioned it'd likely go on for years if it's argued from a constitutional angle) there might be a silver lining for our and our children's futures though. Again- I'm not a lawyer and I didn't even sleep in a Holiday Inn last night but this is what I'm mulling over with this and the precedent it sets.
If a sitting president is able to issue pardons to themselves, their immediate family members, and everyone (perhaps a slight exaggeration so I'll caveat it as perceived "ring leaders") that 'may' all be involved in criminal actions against
our nation, by hashing it out, we may be able to prevent this from every occurring again (especially when things can get even arguably worse).
I won't speak for anyone but myself- but one of the ways that I see it (again as a layperson, just your average Joe 6-pack who pays his taxes and votes), if these pardons aren't overturned then the ramifications of which allow a sitting US President to commit abject and obvious treason in direct and willful violations of their oaths of office and in direct violation of the US Constitution and then have a precedent established (due to these last minute pardons) to protect themselves and all coconspirators from any ramifications with a single stroke of a pen (even if the clear and abject treason has yet to be realized).
I likely didn't elaborate that point in my previous post (I tend to catch a lot of flak here for being too long winded by sharing too many details) but that's what's sticking in my head as far as it being "interesting" on how this will play out. If these pardons are upheld, then I'm off my rocker and my concerns are completely without merit or all is lost with the checks and balances and separation of duties our nation was founded upon.
As for how we walk back form that- well, all I can say is in my mind we have to start walking back one step at a time. We need to address the hysteria that the previous administration put into place, we need to curtail and prevent this from ever occurring again, we need to restore faith and confidence in our electoral process, and we need to bring to light all of the actions and the entities behind such that have done everything thing they could to circumvent our lawful nation and put further measures/protections in place to stop those from repeating.
I'm not sure if I addressed all of your comments but hopefully I touched on many of them and presented a counterpoint or agreement to your position in a respectful but also concise & clear way. Just to "book-end" things, again I would like to reiterate that you & I are likely more than 90% in agreement with things. The <10% is just on how we perceive/interpret it and how we move forward is all.
Cheers to you and best wishes.
-LD
all these politicians talk about give and take ("if you want to do that, I'll do this.... etc)
