Bighorn TL3 / XLR Shouldered and Prefit Switch barrel testing/review

[padom]

Yes

 

[demolitionman]

I'd like to see how your .223 Criterion's shoot and what heavy for caliber projectiles you are able to mag feed. I've got a savage action just begging for a new barrel, chassis and trigger......well Padom? Have you spun them up yet?

 

[padom]

I'd like to see how your .223 Criterion's shoot and what heavy for caliber projectiles you are able to mag feed. I've got a savage action just begging for a new barrel, chassis and trigger......well Padom? Have you spun them up yet?

They are spun up and testing will begin in the next 2 weeks. Finished the final testing on the Mullerworks barrel Monday. It's time to screw on the CBI.

80 Amax or stupid accurate, velocity at 2900, mag fed

 

[GreggNY]

I’ve been researching the tl3 for my next build and just came across this thread. Really looking forward to the longer range testing!

 

[padom]

I’ve been researching the tl3 for my next build and just came across this thread. Really looking forward to the longer range testing!

Ive been throwing some teaser pics/info out but kinda holding everything till the end then I will do a write up with the results. I can say 1/2moa or less hasnt been a problem with the Mullerworks SPR and 75 ELD-M combo at 500M (546yds). That wasnt the case with the Shilen...

 

[xdeano]

I can add a little bit with bighorn new 12 point barrel nut. They're awesome. Easy to swap barrels and set you chamber. To make it awesome is that you don't have to buy some expensive tool, just a cheap wrench, a decent barrel vice and swap your barrels. The other nice thing is how thin the nut is. I've got a manners stock inletted for a light Palma and the nut fits nicely but still free of the stock.

Deano

 

[spife7980]

Not gonna lie, Im rather disappointed to see the test not being carried out with the same barrel nut for each barrel. I doubt there will be a difference but all making a constant a variable introduces inequitability. Or at least test it on the established mullerworks to see if it changes anything before moving onto the criterion. Unless youve changed it before that I didnt notice in which case w/e.

 

[padom]

Not gonna lie, Im rather disappointed to see the test not being carried out with the same barrel nut for each barrel. I doubt there will be a difference but all making a constant a variable introduces inequitability. Or at least test it on the established mullerworks to see if it changes anything before moving onto the criterion. Unless youve changed it before that I didnt notice in which case w/e.

You're jumping to conclusions, all the same hardware is being used for the barrel testing. CBI sent me 2 identical barrels, one Im using to test out this new barrel nut and is not part of the review. The review as you can see has not been published and will not till all the barrels are tested. Dont you worry.

 

[spife7980]

Awesome

 

[Steel head]

Cool looking barrel nut!

 

[kill_zone67]

Looks good

 

[steve123]

Yep, it wins the shnazzy award for barrel nuts.

 

[padom]

To prevention confusion and derailment of this thread/testing I am going to move the Bighorn barrel nut to its own thread.

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...-arms-zermatt-arms-savage-12-point-barrel-nut

 

[oakfig]

Can you post the link?

 

[padom]

Can you post the link?

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...-arms-zermatt-arms-savage-12-point-barrel-nut

 

[DEWD_STUFF]

Looking forward to this


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[cjgemm]

Fire forming today with the new Criterion 6.5 Addiction prefit barrel.
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/i.imgur.com\/rhWkBQg.jpg"}[/IMG2][IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/shooting\/core\/image\/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP\/\/\/wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw=="}[/IMG2]​

45grns of RL17 I had laying around with a Hornady 130 grn. 5 shots @ 200yrds, pulled the high right.
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/i.imgur.com\/C3LrJre.jpg"}[/IMG2][IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/shooting\/core\/image\/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP\/\/\/wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw=="}[/IMG2]​

Not bad for dropped charges.....

 

[padom]

Loaded up 100rds of virgin Lapua to fire form brass and get 100rds down the Criterion barrel before starting load development and barrel review.

24.6g Varget
80 Amax .02" off
205M
2910

Windy day at NH today. Confirmed dope at 500yd then shot everything on the 6" swinger at 700yds. Had a 10-15mph cross wind with gusts up to 25 at times. Amazed how consistent it was in the wind today. Especially with no load development and only 50rd down the barrel to start the day.

Dialed 4.9mil elevation at 700 holding 0.5mil windage off the left edge. Hit after hit. I now have 100rd down the barrel and 100pcs of fireformed brass. Ready to start load development and testing.

 

[padom]

The Bartlein blank has arrived at Patriot Valley Arms. We hope to get that last barrel tested in the next few weeks so we can wrap up this review and post results.

 

[bohem]

padom I am back to cutting on 223's now and I have your barrel in the list of things to get cut this week. I will be calling tomorrow to make sure I have the length and specs correct for the test.

Stay tuned folks!

 

[christopher.dow]

So I talked to Aaron over at Bighorn today. He said yes and no on what NSS said about headspacing. As mentioned above, do not insert a headspace gauge and close the bolt, it will cause damage. You need to put the headspace gauge under the extractor and guide it into the chamber.

Aaron told me the same thing. It worked.


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[padom]

Update.

I have the OCW test loaded up for the Criterion barrel. Plan is to get out next week to shoot them. Josh informed me that the Bartlein is done and ready to go. I'll pick that up next week as well.

 

[Zermatt Arms]

Here is a nice article pertaining to this thread. Bob is using a pre-fit barrel and a barrel nut with a TL-3 and competing (setting records, none the less) in F-Class matches.

Still looking forward to the results of this test!

Thanks everyone!

ZAI / Bighorn Team

 

[CharlieNC]

A number of us have been using CBI barrels in F-class for several years now, and due to the success more are jumping onto the bandwagon. Some are using Savage actions, myself and friends are using Stiller with the Remage setup because of the increased availability of aftermarket parts. We win matches and have held national records using rifles that are less than half the cost of the customs we compete against.

I don't know why someone trusts the barrel maker to make the barrel, but then questions their ability to spin the chamber ????? What nonsense. Using a borescope the chambers from CBI have been flawless. For the upcoming 2018 season I'm contemplating switching from a CBI 8twist Rem Match Chamber (using 80.5FB) to a 6.5twist ISSF chamber to run the 90gr Berger for longer range Ftr.

 

[padom]

The 26" CBI 1:7 .223 Wylde has been pretty awesome out to 800yds fireforming the 100pcs of Virgin lapua and breaking the barrel in with 80 Amax at 2910 with 24.6g Varget. Had zero issues banging 6" steel in a pretty nasty 15-20mph cross wind gusting to 30mph. Fit and finish is excellent. Looking forward to further testing the CBI.

 

[arm017]

A number of us have been using CBI barrels in F-class for several years now, and due to the success more are jumping onto the bandwagon. Some are using Savage actions, myself and friends are using Stiller with the Remage setup because of the increased availability of aftermarket parts. We win matches and have held national records using rifles that are less than half the cost of the customs we compete against.

I don't know why someone trusts the barrel maker to make the barrel, but then questions their ability to spin the chamber ????? What nonsense. Using a borescope the chambers from CBI have been flawless. For the upcoming 2018 season I'm contemplating switching from a CBI 8twist Rem Match Chamber (using 80.5FB) to a 6.5twist ISSF chamber to run the 90gr Berger for longer range Ftr.

Yeah very good point.

 

[Hondo64d]

Bump.

 

[padom]

Temps have been in the single digits, snow storms every week with a blizzard hitting us yesterday. It's supposed to warm up next week so I will try and get out to continue the Criterion testing.

 

[padom]

We got a really nice 60F day yesterday so I was able to shoot the Criterion load development. Barrel shot pretty good, right there with the Shilen results. So far, the cut rifled Mullerworks has shot the tightest groups at 100yds to date. We still have the Bartlein to test....


Criterion


Varget






H4895

 

[Xander3Zero]

padom You are doing your load development .001" off the lands? Or did you mean to write .010"? Also, curious what your COAL was for these loads, and if you were seeing any pressure signs at 25.0gr of Varget? My manual identifies a max charge of varget of 25.6gr at 2.390" COAL with the 75 AMAX (which should have the same data as the ELD-M), so I am curious to see if you stopped at 25.0 due to pressure signs or if you just didn't do development up to max.

 

[padom]

Sorry yea that's supposed to be .01" off the lands. I will correct the the targets. Coal is 2.51", lands are 2.52".. I am doing the same workup for all the barrels..the shilen was seeing pressure at 25g so that's where my testing stops. This Criterion had no pressure at 25g fyi.

I have Hornady latest 10th Edition which lists the 75 ELD and 80 ELD (and Amax's) and they also list coal 2.390" but list max Varget charge for 75 ELD of 24.6g...Ive seen pressure at 24.8 and higher with the other barrels but not this Criterion..

Also reviewing my Nosler Reloading book #8 (latest) they have a max Varget charge of 24g for 75 and 80's...

I do see my Lyman lists 75 and 80g at 25.6 and 25.0. I had pressure at those numbers with the first 2 barrels. I mean I'm getting 2900's and 3000 fps numbers as well with the 2 powders I'm using which beat the numbers Lyman is showing (2843) with 25.6g....

Remember, manuals are for safe starting points. Work up and test accordingly. Every barrel is different.

 

[Xander3Zero]

Sorry yea that's supposed to be .01" off the lands. I will correct the the targets. Coal is 2.51", lands are 2.52".. I am doing the same workup for all the barrels..the shilen was seeing pressure at 25g so that's where my testing stops. This Criterion had no pressure at 25g fyi.

I have Hornady latest 10th Edition which lists the 75 ELD and 80 ELD (and Amax's) and they also list coal 2.390" but list max Varget charge for 75 ELD of 24.6g...Ive seen pressure at 24.8 and higher with the other barrels but not this Criterion..

Also reviewing my Nosler Reloading book #8 (latest) they have a max Varget charge of 24g for 75 and 80's...

I do see my Lyman lists 75 and 80g at 25.6 and 25.0. I had pressure at those numbers with the first 2 barrels. I mean I'm getting 2900's and 3000 fps numbers as well with the 2 powders I'm using which beat the numbers Lyman is showing (2843) with 25.6g....

Remember, manuals are for safe starting points. Work up and test accordingly. Every barrel is different.

Thank you, thank you. I am about to be starting development on my new 223 with 75 ELD-M over varget. I did think that the 25.6gr varget max load in the lyman manual seemed a tad high, but of course I am going to work up from the starting load and verify for myself.

And yes, your velocities are quite a bit higher than what my Lyman manual shows. My barrel is a bartlein 20" 1:7.7 twist, so I am thinking my velocities will be about 100-150 fps slower than what you are seeing.

 

[Hondo64d]

Padom,

You still working on this?

Any conclusions yet?

John

 

[padom]

Still working on it. Have to review the last barrel still (Bartlein Shouldered barrel). Wrong blank received so Bartlein expedited a new one that they said will be rifled next week and ship to PVA. PVA is moving to their new shop next week so not sure exactly when they will get me the finished barrel but hopefully in the next 3-4 weeks or so. As soon as that is complete I will do a recap with results and findings.

 

[Xander3Zero]

@padom have you just been using Bighorn's 12-point barrel nut for all of your prefit barrels? I am assuming you just use the same nut for each barrel as opposed to having a nut for each barrel? Also, with the nut you are using, can you make the barrel swap without taking the rail off the receiver (because of the way it protrudes forward over the barrel nut)?

I am planning a TL3 build and am starting to lean towards using Southern Precision Rifle's Bugnut so that I can pick any barrel/contour off their shelf but still maintain the switch barrel capacity. I have read that the bugnut wrench will require me to remove the rail from the receiver which isn't a huge deal to me because I don't think I will be switching barrels too frequently. Did you consider using a bugnut barrel for any of your testing/what are your thoughts on that system versus the savage prefits?

 

[padom]

I used the same.nut for all barrels. NSS barrel nut. Not I take the barrel action out of the chassis by removing the 2 action bolts.

 

[Xander3Zero]

I used the same.nut for all barrels. NSS barrel nut. Not I take the barrel action out of the chassis by removing the 2 action bolts.

Are you able to use the savage nut and wrench to swap barrels with the rail installed on the TL3 receiver? The rail protrudes forward past the recoil lug which I have read can hinder the usage of the wrench over the barrel nut. Looks like some people just take the rail off the receiver in order to get access to the nut when switching barrels?

 

[padom]

Ive never had to remove the scope base even though it hangs over. Your good to go to remove a prefit nut without touching the scope base.

 

[padom]

Wanted to give everyone an update. This review has not died at all. Bartlein was shipping the new blank Monday so we should have that shortly. I was just informed that Krieger may be submitting a barrel as well which is awesome. Stay tuned....

 

[kill_zone67]

Awesome! Thank you for the update!

 

[padom]

Kreiger called today and they are sending a barrel. That barrel will be spun up by Keystone Accuracy for this review.

 

[plinkin]

Well shit I was hoping for some closure lol just read the entire thread it's riveting. Thanks for this experiment.

 

[axio]

Kreiger called today and they are sending a barrel. That barrel will be spun up by Keystone Accuracy for this review.

Thanks, Padom, this is a great thread. I pre-ordered a Bighorn Origin and I'm following this thread closely. I have a Savage that i've swapped the barrel on before (Shilen and Criterion -- the Criterion has been great), and if there isn't a material difference in accuracy, compared to the wait times of a chambered barrel, I may do the pre-fit route on the Origin too.

For Kreiger, is Keystone Accuracy putting together a pre-fit barrel too, or providing a shouldered to compare against?

 

[padom]

Shouldered. but there is no difference. you can see his button barrel in the other review thread I started last week for 6.5x47L. the nut vs shoulder makes zero difference in accuracy I can assure you of that. I'm far enough along into this review to say that with 100% certainty.

 

[axio]

Shouldered. but there is no difference. you can see his button barrel in the other review thread I started last week for 6.5x47L. the nut vs shoulder makes zero difference in accuracy I can assure you of that. I'm far enough along into this review to say that with 100% certainty.

Excellent. I have an email out to Bighorn as well about action wrenches. I have a Wheeler action wrench that works fine with the Savage, but I'm hoping the Bighorn Origin can use it as well (has pinned scope rail -- not sure if that means I can still unscrew and remove the rail to clamp on the action wrench or not, and something about a mechanical ejector?). If the Wheeler doesn't work, looks like I'll have to buy their rear-entry action wrench and give that a try.

 

[padom]

You don't need to remove scope base. I've never had to remove them on my TL3. You need bighorn wrench due to mechanical ejector.

 

[axio]

You don't need to remove scope base. I've never had to remove them on my TL3. You need bighorn wrench due to mechanical ejector.

Ok, thanks for the info that I definitely need their rear-entry wrench. Looks like I'll add that to my order with them. Thanks again, this is a great thread. I'll have to talk to Southern Precision then on either a Bartlein or Mullerworks pre-fit. The Mullerworks you shot a few pages ago -- WOW!

 

[Dirty D]

Shouldered. but there is no difference... ...the nut vs shoulder makes zero difference in accuracy I can assure you of that. I'm far enough along into this review to say that with 100% certainty.

This statement will cause so much butthurt across the Internet!

 

[padom]

lol. some can't handle the truth.

 

[Dirty D]

Sacred cows, sacred cows...