Rifle Scopes BigJimFish 1-(n)x scope Shot show 2012 blog

[BigJimFish]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would you be able to grade the scopes in your review in terms of daylight reticle visibility? You could probably use an Aimpoint for base brightness and then on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the brightness of an Aimpoint, apply the scale to each scope. I think some of us might get some value out of this.</div></div>

I agree that daylight visibility is a pressing concern for many. The problem is that just what constitutes daytime bright is very subjective and effected greatly by the area of the reticle reflecting light as well as the brightness of the illumination. In the case of the 2fp Bushnell, a great deal more area exists at 1x to reflect illumination than on the ffp version. This makes the illumination appear brighter, but it also diminishes the red dot approximation effect that you get with the ffp version. The short answer is that I doubt either of these two optics will appear daytime bright under the mid day sun like an Aimpoint, the new Leupold VX6, the Meopta, Either S&B short dot, the Swarovski, the Zeiss, the Trijicon, and probably others I have forgotten.

Still, you bring up an interesting proposition: To use an Aimpoint's illumination settings as a rubric for determining the brightness of a scopes illumination. Area of reticle related complications aside, this might still have some value. As you might imagine, I don't have an Aimpoint though. Perhaps I can find someone in Columbus Ohio who is interested in loaning me their Aimpoint from time to time.

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

Leupold VX-6 1-6x update.

Today I spoke with one of the Leupold reps regarding the VX-6 1-6x. This scope caught my eye at Shot by having a flash dot at a price point much lower than one can typically get this type of illumination. Its optics were also very good with regards to both clarity and field of view. The only rub was that it was not offered in a configuration with any ranging capability at all. I commiserated with the Leupold rep about this problem and he confided in me a secret (which I kept thank you very much, it wasn't easy for me). He told me that he had been working for some time to get a ranging capable reticle in this scope. He was not sure that it would happen, but promised to keep me informed if it did.

That brings us to today. I received an e-mail from the rep announcing success, at least partially, on his part. The VX-6 1-6x will be able to be purchased, with the Firedot SPR reticle, as an option, through the Custom Shop. I have pictured this reticle below. It is a mil ladder reticle with a circle added and flash dot illumination.

The Firedot SPR reticle:

Leupold was pushing their Custom Shop a great deal at Shot this year, especially with regards to their CDS dial system. This is a dial system that can be engraved for your specific load. To be honest, I really hadn't paid that much attention to the Custom Shop literature as, in the past, you really didn't have much in the way of features you could change that mattered. Specifically, there usually was little or no reticle or adjustment choice. You could get the scope engraved or anodized, which might be great for a retirement gift, but that was about it. In the case of this VX-6, you will be able to add this mil ranging reticle and also change the adjustments to .1mil to match the reticle: quite an upgrade in functionality.

To sum it all up, you will be able to get the VX-6 with a ranging mil reticle and mil adjustments. You will also be able to get an 8mil, one turn, zero stop, if you want it. This will all be through the Custom Shop only. I guess a cool anodizing job might be in order since you have to go custom anyway. Perhaps black with green fade and black splatter effect.

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

Zeiss Victory Varipoint 1.1-4x24mm T* Shot Show 2012 mini-review

Zeiss is one of the oldest and best respected optics makers in the world and, in addition to Nikon, is one of the elephants in the room. Zeiss manufactures several lines of scopes. The mid-range Conquest line of scopes is assembled in the U.S., whereas the higher lines, such as the Conquest Duralyt line, Victory line and Hensoldt brands, are made in Germany. The scope we will be examining today is the Victory Varipoint 1.1-4x24mm.

The first thing to note about this scope is that it does appear unmagnified at 1x. As I have explained in the introduction to my low power variable scopes thread (as well as countless other times): how magnification is measured varies in European and American tradition. Typically, European scopes measure the magnification of a scope using the optics equations themselves. Since these are idealized physics equations that make assumptions, such as that lenses do not have thickness, they are a bit off in practice. The result of this is that to get a scope that appears 1x to the user, its equations will indicate a magnification of around 1.1x. Americans typically just list the scope as 1x if it looks 1x. This might be all well and good except that occasionally we also label scopes of 1.25x as 1x; confusing the hell out of everybody. In any case, if you want to know if this scope will appear unmagnified in use; it will.

The Victory 1.1-4x has a very similar external appearance to my Conquest 4.5-14x. Zeiss uses this shiny textured black finish that I do not find very attractive on its scopes, but that is one of the most durable finishes I have ever seen on any optic. I remember a salesperson years ago demonstrating this finish by sanding the edges of a quarter with a scope; causing no distress to the scope (not recommended). As much as I prefer other company's finishes on the day of purchase: five years later, the Zeiss always looks better. I have no scratches on my Zeiss 4.5-14x. I can't even say that for my USO, which uses mil spec type III hard anodizing as its finish.

The Zeiss Victory Varipoint 1.1-4x24mm next to the GRSC reference:

In addition to the finish, this Zeiss also appears to share the same adjustments as my 4.5-14x scope. These are 1/4moa, very small, capped adjustments that lift up to set zero and push down to turn. They are very stiff and, given their small size and weight, accomplish the goal of a 'set and forget' adjustment very well. As I'm sure you can guess in a scope of this price point, the power ring and diopter feel just fine.

This scope comes in two reticles: the German #4 and a simple flash dot. No ranging is offered by either reticle and, coupled with adjustments well-sized for 'set and forget' use, this scope does not attempt to extend its use beyond a few hundred yards. It is possible that something is to be said for this. Many scopes in this class seem unwilling to make a decision as to what they want to do well. They might have giant, heavy adjustments for drop compensation but no ranging features to facilitate that function. The Zeiss simply opts to go with the close quarters only theme and, particularly with the flash dot reticle, executes this well.

Speaking of the flash dot, The feature that most recommends this scope is the illumination. It utilizes a daytime bright dot illumination scheme with infinitely adjustable rheostat. There are very few daytime bright flash dot type scopes in this class and the Zeiss is one of them.

I think that the best place to leave this discussion is with the clarity and field of view. The field of view is larger than the reference GRSC and the clarity is better, too. This is despite the fact that the Zeiss is much lighter. The biggest difficulty this scope will have is arguing that at this price range it should be close quarters only and limited to 4x. The Swarovski is similarly priced, similarly featured, and 1-6x.

The Zeiss Victory Varipoint 1.1-4x24mm at 1x with maximum illumination:

The Zeiss Victory Varipoint 1.1-4x24mm at 4x with maximum illumination:

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

Trijicon TR24 Shot Show 2012 mini-review

Trijicon was one of the last booths I visited on day 4 of Shot. I was booking to get done by this point which was really to bad as I would have liked to have played with the new really expensive long range rifle scopes.

The TR24 is Trijicon's entry into the 1-4x market. It was introduced to a very impatient public a few years back. I remember the discussions of how great it would be to have a 1-4x ACOG. That was not really what happened. Though no one expected the TR24 to look like an ACOG, it was expected that the familiar ACOG style BDC reticle would be present. Due to the construction of the AcucPoint scopes, floating elements, such as the ACOG scopes have, are not possible. This does not mean that it would not be possible to make a reticle similar to that of an ACOG, but it does rule out one that looks identical. Instead trying for an approximation, Trijicon has gone with two non-ranging options, a German #1 and #4. Both these reticles are very thick and, as a result, not particularly good for hold over. I spoke with the rep for a short time about reticle situation and he said they are kicking around the idea of adding a ranging capable reticle. I have heard this for years. I will believe it when I see it.

The TR24 1-4x next to the reference GRSC 1-6x:

Regarding the optic itself, a little research on my part combined with my hands on inspection has revealed that the TR24 is, in all likelihood, a Light Optics product. The glass is of the clarity one expects from that OEM. It stacks up evenly with the GRSC and looks very good. The field of view is also slightly larger, which one would expect from a 2fp scope that is 1-4x instead of 1-6x. The adjustments, on the TR24, are of the Light optic type that is seen on so many other scopes and discussed in length in the Sightron review. In the case of the Trijicon, these are 1/4moa. They feel very good and are some of my favorite adjustments for this class optic.

Really, if you are looking at this scope it is not about the adjustments, it is about the illumination. You can buy an assortment of other Light Optics manufactured scopes from a handful of other brands with a higher magnification range, better reticles, the same glass, and the same adjustments, but none of them will have a fiber / Tritium illumination scheme. This scheme requires no batteries and is easily daytime bright. In the daytime, the illumination is also adjustable by sliding a ring around the fiber pick up to cover all or part of the fiber. At night, illumination is not adjustable and may, or may not, play well with night vision systems. I suspect it is probably to bright for them. Still, daytime bright without batteries is a good selling point and this illumination scheme is in a solid scope from a well respected brand and OEM.

The TR24 1-4x with maximum illumination at 1x:

The TR24 1-4x with maximum illumination at 4x:

 

[kombayotch]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJimFish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a close up of this adjustment mechanism (On the GRSC 1-6x):

</div></div>

Got a chance to play with turrets like this on a Bushnell Elite and I have to say that I'm not impressed in the slightest. Unlike the ones in the new SWFA 1-6x, these aren't turrets that you would ever want to run with the caps off. It takes hardly anything to pull them up, so it would be very easy to lose your zero trying to do it quickly in the field.

Disappointing... I was considering getting one of the new Bushnells...

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got a chance to play with turrets like this on a Bushnell Elite and I have to say that I'm not impressed in the slightest. Unlike the ones in the new SWFA 1-6x, these aren't turrets that you would ever want to run with the caps off. It takes hardly anything to pull them up, so it would be very easy to lose your zero trying to do it quickly in the field.</div></div>

You are correct, these adjustments do not take much force to adjust or to pull up so you couldn't really go running about with the caps off. It would be easy to bump the adjustments and change the zero or even pop them up and change the zero setting. That being said, the adjustments are smooth, even, and accurate, with nice tactile and audible clicks. They are serviceable for drop compensation adjustment they just can't be left uncapped all the time. I wouldn't take the caps off, leave them at home, and to hunting, to the range, or to a competition. These adjustments would be very poor for this sort of off label use.

I think that this really comes down to the basic question of whether you want easy to access exposed adjustments or smaller, lower profile capped ones. Some capped adjustments are probably serviceable to leave uncapped in the manner of an exposed adjustment. My USO would not be bad used in this manner. I am not sure you can fault a capped adjustment for not excelling in all aspects of a method of use they not designed for though. If your looking for an always exposed uncapped adjustment so you don't have to fiddle with removing the cap every time you go to adjust these should not be your choice, they are not for off label use.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

What did the windage turret look like on the Leupold Mark 6? I've heard that it's capped, but have not heard any details of the turret itself, or its usability with the cap off.

 

[sititunga]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJimFish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trijicon TR24 Shot Show 2012 mini-review

Trijicon was one of the last booths I visited on day 4 of Shot. I was booking to get done by this point which was really to bad as I would have liked to have played with the new really expensive long range rifle scopes.

The TR24 is Trijicon's entry into the 1-4x market. It was introduced to a very impatient public a few years back. I remember the discussions of how great it would be to have a 1-4x ACOG. That was not really what happened. Though no one expected the TR24 to look like an ACOG, it was expected that the familiar ACOG style BDC reticle would be present. Due to the construction of the AcucPoint scopes, floating elements, such as the ACOG scopes have, are not possible. This does not mean that it would not be possible to make a reticle similar to that of an ACOG, but it does rule out one that looks identical. Instead trying for an approximation, Trijicon has gone with two non-ranging options, a German #1 and #4. Both these reticles are very thick and, as a result, not particularly good for hold over. I spoke with the rep for a short time about reticle situation and he said they are kicking around the idea of adding a ranging capable reticle. I have heard this for years. I will believe it when I see it.

The TR24 1-4x next to the reference GRSC 1-6x:

Regarding the optic itself, a little research on my part combined with my hands on inspection has revealed that the TR24 is, in all likelihood, a Light Optics product. The glass is of the clarity one expects from that OEM. It stacks up evenly with the GRSC and looks very good. The field of view is also slightly larger, which one would expect from a 2fp scope that is 1-4x instead of 1-6x. The adjustments, on the TR24, are of the Light optic type that is seen on so many other scopes and discussed in length in the Sightron review. In the case of the Trijicon, these are 1/4moa. They feel very good and are some of my favorite adjustments for this class optic.

Really, if you are looking at this scope it is not about the adjustments, it is about the illumination. You can buy an assortment of other Light Optics manufactured scopes from a handful of other brands with a higher magnification range, better reticles, the same glass, and the same adjustments, but none of them will have a fiber / Tritium illumination scheme. This scheme requires no batteries and is easily daytime bright. In the daytime, the illumination is also adjustable by sliding a ring around the fiber pick up to cover all or part of the fiber. At night, illumination is not adjustable and may, or may not, play well with night vision systems. I suspect it is probably to bright for them. Still, daytime bright without batteries is a good selling point and this illumination scheme is in a solid scope from a well respected brand and OEM.

The TR24 1-4x with maximum illumination at 1x:

The TR24 1-4x with maximum illumination at 4x:

</div></div>

I've always liked this Trijicon, but the reticle sucks. How much would it take for the guys and gals at Trijicon to put a reticle in there (keeping the bright triangle or turning it into a dot) that gives some mil striations for hold overs and hold unders and some holds for wind/moving targets. To me that seems like a screamingly obvious move.

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What did the windage turret look like on the Leupold Mark 6? I've heard that it's capped, but have not heard any details of the turret itself, or its usability with the cap off.</div></div>

It is shown in the photo with cap off and is the same as the capped elevation turret. As you can see is it quite low profile. Even with the cap on it is low. As for the usability taking the cap off and leaving it at home, I do not recall it being easy it being easily move and it is very low and would be difficult to bump. To be honest I don't remember the exact details of all my impressions now that it is a few months later and so much has run together. In any case, I will have one of these on hand to test within the month. From the custom shop it will be available with several different turrets as well so I may have the zero stop elevation turret on the test one as well. I'm not sure yet of all the available turret options but I will keep you posted.

 

[aaronfor10]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't this a VX-6? not a MK-6? Or were you implying that they were the same?

Thanks in advance.

 

[vtb]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've always liked this Trijicon, but the reticle sucks. How much would it take for the guys and gals at Trijicon to put a reticle in there (keeping the bright triangle or turning it into a dot) that gives some mil striations for hold overs and hold unders and some holds for wind/moving targets. To me that seems like a screamingly obvious move. </div></div>

Who will buy ACOG in that case?

 

[kombayotch]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggie410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't this a VX-6? not a MK-6?</div></div>

Correct, it is not the scope that I was referring to...

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't this a VX-6? not a MK-6? Or were you implying that they were the same?

Thanks in advance.</div></div>

Whups. Here is the MK6. I couldn't post any picks until this month because of an NDA. Both windage and elevation turrets are exposed not capped. The little button visible is a locking button. It must be depressed for the turret to rotate. I will get around to writing down my impressions on the MK6 eventually. It got put off because it had an NDA unlike the other scopes. I also have a pic of the high power MK6 that I will post at some point.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

Thanks for posting, interesting that Lupy has NDA agreements when they had it at Shot Show for everyone to see.

Do you happen to have a possible release date on the mk6 or is that part of the NDA?

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

The scopes at shot were identical to production versions and not prototypes. What I have been told is that the NDA was because the MK6 was not yet in production at the time of the show. They were scheduled to have them in production in March so I expect they are being produced now. I am not sure when they will actually hit the streets.

I agree with your thoughts regarding how unusual it is to have a scope present that is under NDA since obviously folks who are not reviewers and are at Shot for other reasons will post pictures and impressions having no awareness of the NDA. That being said, I thought it was strange for Nightforce to forgo displaying their new long range scope that is supposed to be released this year since it seems from various threads around here that it is ready to go and quite a few folks have already seen it. I thought this especially strange since all Nightforce had to show that was new was a reticle. I think the moral of the story is that every marketing department has its own take on how to handle releases and its beyond my pay grade to try to sort out the strategies.

 

[Singlestack_Wonder]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

Jim:

Any pictures of the Mk6 CMR-W reticle?

 

[ArmyJerry]

Re: BigJimFish 1-x scope Shot show 2012 blog

Great Thread, you probable cost me $1k or more. I really like the Lupy but would like to see in person before buying two, nobody carries them in south fla.