Gunsmithing Bore Scope Pics

[jh26]

Looking for some input on what I may have done right or wrong and also learn for my next barrel on whether or not to change my cleaning practices. I have cleaned every 500 rounds thus far and have tried just about every type of carbon and copper remover. Cleaning is done by 3 wet patches carbon cleaner, let sit, scrub 3-4 passes nylon brush and then repeat same process with carbon cleaner. I have used gunslick foaming cleaner as well a few times along the way and only wiped it out with a patch, no brushing.
Currently using Bore tech c4 carbon and Bore tech copper remover. This is a Bartlein barrel chambered in .260 Remington with 3000 rounds down the tube. My question is on the first 3 inches of so where I cannot or I should say have been able to thus far remove the carbon. I have just started to get the carbon to break down to the point where you can see the copper, and then just another inch or so it goes back to pure black. Considering JB bore past at this time. Second question is when I get my new barrel do I need to clean the carbon out a lot more often or get better products, or both?

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

500 round interval is too long. 3000 rounds on the barrel. I hope you have plans for a replacement barrel.
Cleaning intervals should be viewed as a way to maintain accuracy and the condition of the bore. Not to restore the bore to a functioning condition. Extreme conditions require extended cleaning times which usually leads to aggressive measures being taken. Even then it's difficult to bring a barrel all the way back.
Good chemicals, a brass brush and time are your friends. Soak, brush, soak again, brush then patch out and see what it looks like. I've been a competitive shooter since 1978. I worn out probably thousands of brass brushes and I have never damaged a barrel with one.

 

[jh26]

Thank you for the reply. New barrel going to be ordered for sure and not looking to restore or bring back at this time. Just trying to learn for next barrel on how to keep this from happening. What products would you recommend and how often should I be cleaning then to the carbon from building up?

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Thank you for the reply. New barrel going to be ordered for sure and not looking to restore or bring back at this time. Just trying to learn for next barrel on how to keep this from happening. What products would you recommend and how often should I be cleaning then to the carbon from building up?

Cleaning intervals have a lot has to do with your shooting routine. If you train for a day you may put a lot of rounds down the barrel. You may or may not decide to clean mid day if you break for lunch. Personally I would. When possible I'd clean every 100 rounds. As the barrel ages it will require additional care to manage heat checking. Abrasives on tight fitting patch. Flitz, Iosso, JB etc.
There are many good cleaning chemicals. I use Butch's and several Bore Tech products for copper. It's just what I have more than their the best. Butch was a friend of mine so I have an attachment there but many others work as well.

 

[jh26]

I do not shoot a ton in one sitting, usually 50 rounds or so every few weeks and at times I may go a month or so without shooting at all. The good news now is I have the bore scope and can keep an eye on things much better and catch this before it gets this far. I have not used Butches before, but will have it on hand for the new barrel. I also think my next routine will include cleaning if the gun is going to sit for any extended length of time between range trips. Great info, thanks Dave.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Cops are the worlds worse for putting a dirty rifle away in the trunk of a car. Temps rise and fall , air comes and goes in and out of the barrel. The powder fouling acts like a sponge trapping moisture against the steel. SS does rust. So now you have a pitted barrel. I've seen many barrels where the last 3/8"-1/2" at the muzzle is pitted. If you don't clean it at least push a dry patch down the barrel to get the majority of the powder fouling out.

 

[Brux]

If you want to clean that barrel get some remington 40x..
If you don't want your new barrel to wind up like that one,clean it.
Boretech is good stuff as well as other stuff also.

 

[whatsupdoc]

500 round interval is too long. 3000 rounds on the barrel. I hope you have plans for a replacement barrel.
Cleaning intervals should be viewed as a way to maintain accuracy and the condition of the bore. Not to restore the bore to a functioning condition. Extreme conditions require extended cleaning times which usually leads to aggressive measures being taken. Even then it's difficult to bring a barrel all the way back.
Good chemicals, a brass brush and time are your friends. Soak, brush, soak again, brush then patch out and see what it looks like. I've been a competitive shooter since 1978. I worn out probably thousands of brass brushes and I have never damaged a barrel with one.

Do you push the brass brush through the barrel and then pull it back through the muzzle?

 

[Hateca]

I could care less what the barrel looks like if it shoots it shoots. I clean when the barrel tells me it needs cleaning. Every barrel and caliber is different. I’ve had factory barrels go 250 rounds before accuracy goes away and I’ve had custom barrels go 1000 rounds before accuracy drops. Cleaning barrels is not the end all be all for accuracy or barrel life. I’ve seen barrels shoot like crap for the first 20 rounds then groups go silly tight for a long stretch. When I do clean I clean for powder and carbon, carbon kills accuracy more then anything and will attract moisture. The only exception to this is if the rifle gets wet or if it’s going to set for an extended period of time between shooting trips.

Put your nylon brushes in the trash and use bronze brushes. They’re not going to hurt your barrel. If the barrel can take that high speed bullet I’m pretty sure it can handle the bronze brush.

If you don’t get the carbon out you will never reach the copper. There is no need to remove all the copper. Even if you get it all out fire a few rounds it all goes back in. Like I said carbon build up will kill accuracy faster then anything.

 

[jh26]

I will toss the nylon as it seems clear here bronze/brass is the way to go. I honestly have never shot till accuracy completely fell off, but as of late I have been getting more flyers and the groups are opening up, but was chalking that up to the round count. I am thinking my issue at this point at least from a cleaning standpoint is that I just have not actually been getting the carbon out.......cleaning at 100 or at 500 for that matter. I scrubbed the living shit out of it today and didn't even budge that carbon. So now for me it is just about finding out what actually gets it clean. Do you think with carbon fouling that bad just switching to the bronze brush and the bore tech carbon remover will get the job done, or should I try JB paste? I also just did some reading CLR so I may give that a try.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Do you push the brass brush through the barrel and then pull it back through the muzzle?

yes in and out. When I pull it back in I start slow to center the brush in the crown.

 

[brianf]

not sure if i missed it but you are using a bore guide correct?

if your spooked bout pulling a brush back past the crown every couple of strokes re wet the brush with solvent.

solvent isnt only a cleaner its also acts as a lubricant for contact


As @DAVETOOLEY said i never understood the clean every 3,4,500 rounds, not talking AR's and semis in general

come home run 2-3 patches with carbon/copper remover (possibly short stroking down bore if you believe it makes a difference)

let it sit while you watching TV

dry patch it out, they will come out with green and blue sludge

wet a brush, bunch of strokes, re wet..few more strokes (when you pull the rod out it will have green sludge it you wipe it off)

let it sit, and watch more tv or cook dinner

dry patch out 4-5 patches

wet patch with IPO alcohol

dry patch

10-12 patches and a total of 5 mins of actual work spaced out over...who cares how long

 

[Wannashootit]

Might try Carb-Out (from Sharpshoot-R , same that makes Wipe-Out) for stubborn carbon deposits. Works great on brakes, AR bolts, anything that gets caked and baked...

 

[1moaoff]

There can be 2 versions of cleaning. Quick clean after a range trip. Then good cleaning whenever your rifle needs it.

 

[jh26]

I think that’s the key. I will adopt a quick clean after a range trip to knock out some carbon right away, that along with the brass brushes should do the trick.

 

[jh26]

Quick update, soaked with CLR and brushed a shit ton with a bronze brush and just starting to make some headway. If I didn't have the bore scope, no way in hell anyone could have told me there would still be carbon in the barrel.
I will not be able to get out and shoot for a week, very anxious to see if groups tighten back up. Thanks again everyone for all the replies and great info.

 

[Hateca]

This what I do and it doesn’t matter what the barrel, caliber, or round count. Like I said I clean when accuracy drops off no matter the round count. I use MP7 bronze brush. Saturate the barrel with MP7, stroke the barrel, flush the barrel with brake cleaner. Push several clean dry patches out the barrel. If they are streaked with carbon I repeat the steps. Brake cleaner will strip the barrel of any oils so if you plan on storing the rifle push an oil patch through. If not go back to shooting.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Chemicals,soak time and regular cleaning regime work best. I put chemicals in with 5 strokes of a brush. Let it soak, maybe overnight, then another 5 strokes. Patch out with a couple of patches. I never want a barrel squeaky dry. If you can gall the threads of a barrel in an action what do you think happens to bullet jacket as it passes over a dry bore the first time. If I'm at the range I push two patches through after cleaning then go back to shooting. I want the barrel damp. If it takes more than two patches to get the majority of the loosened fouling out you need to soak and brush more. The barrel is still dirty. At times I'll also put oil in the barrel prior to firing the first shot out of a clean barrel. 3 or 4 drops on a patch and work it back and forth in the barrel. The reason. I want some lubrication for the bullet. After the first shot powder fouling acts as a lubricant. At 1,000 yds the first shot will be 14"-18" low in a magnum. Then I trust the next shot. As always YMMV

 

[want2learn]

great information

i must admit that i likely misunderstood some of the prior recommendations i had read concerning the topic, it did sound as though many were advocating only cleaning the barrel when accuracy suffered.

i too was taught to do a light cleaning after each day at the range and have almost always done so. i bring along some CLP or Hoppes, a cleaning rod, guide and a bore mop and run a moistened bore mop through the bore, i live in a coastal region and felt it was best to protect the rifle and the soak time would facilitate cleaning. When i arrive home i follow by a light cleaning which probably takes 5 minutes. I tend to prefer using the commercially available cleaning pellets, it feels as though they do a nice job and perhaps align the rod to the bore. I use a copper cleaner every few hundred rounds.

I've never availed myself to a bore scope....but the barrel does seem to shoot well so i hope "the proof is in the pudding"

 

[Hateca]

great information

i must admit that i likely misunderstood some of the prior recommendations i had read concerning the topic, it did sound as though many were advocating only cleaning the barrel when accuracy suffered.

They were and that’s exactly what they do. Accuracy drops I clean or the rifle gets wet or the rifle will be stored for extended time between shooting sessions.

 

[jh26]

Here is how is see from my personal experience and NOT having a bore scope it was impossible to know exactly what was going on in MY barrel. I to choose to clean every 500rds or so since I had read over and over to shoot till the gun’s accuracy fell off. In my head, I figured it was a happy medium. First issue is I had was I simply had no idea if the gun was actually getting clean. When you watch some videos its easy peezy, just slide down a few wet batches and dry it out. Then I did the wipe out thing, and again figured…. the gun MUST be clean now, and it just never was. I am actually amazed on how good the gun continued to shoot for this long. When I first got the gun dialed in it would in the 3s and 4s. As time when on, they the groups became2s, 3s, 4s 5s and 6s all in one shooting. I would clean, never lose zero, no shift or no need to have fowlers to get the gun dialed back in. I suppose this could have been a sign. In the last few outings after cleaning my first 5 shot groups were in the 3s and 4s and back to shit groups and unexplained flyers. I chose to chalk this up as to me not shooting as much or the barrel starting go south. Again, I have read .260 fade around 2-3k rounds and at the same time other hand, I would just chalk it up to a bad shooting day. One of the key factors or at least my opinion is understanding when accuracy falls off vs a bad shooting day. I don’t shoot enough to really, really know. I will be very curious to get back out and see what happens on the next shooting. Last point I will make for my experience is that I will be doing some cleaning every 100rds, and or a wipe down if I only do 50 or so and the gun will sit for a few weeks, no way in hell I want to deal with stubborn carbon like this ever again. Attached is what I would love to get back to on a regular basis, not sure this barrel has the life in it and know a new barrel is coming soon, but I feel like this is turning out to be a pretty cool test on a dirty barrel vs clean barrel. I will post up some pics of my next outing sometime next week.

 

[hermosabeach]

Does anyone still use Kroil & JB Bore paste for cleaning rifles?

Dry patch until cleanish
parch with Kroil - 6 passes
patches until dry

Patch around a jig with JB Bore paste -
20 passes

dry patches until clean

repeat

 

[hermosabeach]

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Save money on the do-it-all combination that's been written up in several of the 'accuracy' publications: J-B and Kroil! Run a couple of patches soaked in Kroil through the bore to get under and loosen barrel fouling, then wipe away most of the cr...

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[kl3309]

Does anyone still use Kroil & JB Bore paste for cleaning rifles?

Dry patch until cleanish
parch with Kroil - 6 passes
patches until dry

Patch around a jig with JB Bore paste -
20 passes

dry patches until clean

repeat

Ain't got time for all dat:

150 grit with a spout!!!

 

[6.5SH]

Does anyone still use Kroil & JB Bore paste for cleaning rifles?

Dry patch until cleanish
parch with Kroil - 6 passes
patches until dry

Patch around a jig with JB Bore paste -
20 passes

dry patches until clean

repeat

I still do when a barrel needs it. I use a worn brush instead of a jag to wrap the JB patch around though.