Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

[rizla]

Has anyone had any experience with bullets coated with boron nitride? I've heard mixed reviews about moly coating, but while I was researching the subject I came across this article:
http://www.6mmbr.com/bulletcoating.html
It says that moly and tungsten disulfide can both combine with moisture, forming harmful chemicals which can erode barrels, where as boron nitride doesn't. Also apparently David Tubbs is backing boron nitride, saying it is better than moly or tungsten disulfide.

Any info would be much appreciated!

 

[95LTZ]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

I have shot several thousand of BN coated bullets from David & have nothing but fantastic things to say about it. I have also been coating my other calibers for about 5 years now and again, I nothing bad to say about it. I have one rifle that requires 6 rounds to come back "in" from a through cleaning. Most of the other rifles only require 2 rounds to come back in. I started out using the vibratory method for applying BN. I switched to the tumbling method for a very short time. I am back using the vibratory method as the tumbling was not treating the pointed bullets that well. Kind of peening the noses of the pointed bullets. If you shoot steel you probably wouldn't have to clean the rifle. In a 6xc class rifle I clean every 230 rounds (39.0grs per round). I have a long neck 300 Norma Mag based wildcat that burns 88.0grs. of Retumbo & it quit shooting at 92
rounds. After using BN I prefer to only shoot coated bullets.
Semper Fi

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

I too have shot a coupla thousand HBN coated bullets..some done by Tubb and the rest I did myself. When I finally clean a barrel whether it's 6.5x47 or 30-338WM I wonder at first if my copper remover has gone flat because so little, if any, copper shows up on the patch. And I get a higher velocity for the pressure.
Unless a guy is really handy he will screw this up. Get them already done by Tubb.

That's TUBB. Not TUBBS.

 

[rizla]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

Thanks for the info! And apologies for my spelling of Tubb!!

How much of an increase in barrel life do they give? I'm looking at building a custom rig, most likely in .243 or .243 AI and using them in that. 243's don't have a great reputation for barrel life and I don't want to be spending all my money on barrels. I'm not going to be competing with it though so there won't be many shots in quick succession which should limit any wear.

Casey, why is there such a high risk of screwing it up? I didn't think there was much to the process.. maybe I'm wrong?

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?



<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Alleviating barrel throat erosion is not an attribute of firing Hbn coated bullets. High pressured hot gas causes throat erosion in large part. In small part, the bullet beginning its rotation about its longitudinal axis, I believe, causes some, but little, throat erosion. Throat erosion is barrel wear. Originating at the throat, erosion eventually extends, or grows, down the barrel. However, I've become lately aware that the steel barrels are made of isn't as hard as I had imagined them to be.

We all believe heat seems to reduce the structural integrity of metal. Therefore a hot barrel may wear, but obviously the bullet is hot too so it too will mate and rub off on the barrel in friction EXCEPT an Hbn coated bullet will resist friction produced sloughing of the jacket, and hence, perhaps reduce barrel wear as well, but only slightly in my opinion.

There is not a high risk of screwing up lubricating bullets with Hbn. That is not what I wrote. Merely stated, a handy man like you will probably do just fine. A little trial and error, but the bullets will be better than they were. If you're interested I'll pm my method. 427Cobra shared his with me. I'll share mine with you.
Enjoy the 243Win. By the time the barrel shoots out you'll want another kind anyway.</span>

 

[rizla]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

Thank you! Very informative. Your coating method would be very much appreciated as well!

 

[TexIndian]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

Is this the same principle as with Nosler's Combined Technology bullets? They call their coating Lubilox - a black oxide coating that reduces friction and fouling without all the negatives of moly. Pretty vague description. I picked up a couple boxes in .308 a while back but haven't got around to testing them yet.

 

[jonrleist]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

I really can't say much, but I will have to differ on your comments about barrel throat erosion. We had a commercial ammo manufacturer trialing BN, using a vibratory bowl to coat bullets. The barrels operated cooler, the barrel erosion was an order of magnitude lower compared to the standard MoS2 coated bullets, and they reported the velocity did not drop off proportionally to the back pressure reduction. I don't know what other folks are doing in terms of BN coating, but you don't need fancy white coatings or other fake colored BN coatings to do the trick. These results were achieved with vibratory bowl coated bullets, and they are not white. They are just a muted copper looking bullet.

Peace out!

BN man

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?


Test results benefit us, and apparently we are correct in assuming Hbn reduces friction and thus barrel wear as well. But I don't know what it means "order of magnitude". How much is that?

 

[RingSteel]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

I'd like to read the coating method instructions, if you can post them.

 

[bricktop]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Test results benefit us, and apparently we are correct in assuming Hbn reduces friction and thus barrel wear as well. But I don't know what it means "order of magnitude". How much is that? </div></div>

Generally it means a factor of ten, but I have a hard time believing that. 3000 bumped up to 30000 round accurate barrel life?

 

[FmrChief]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

Here's what I do.

I've got two of the small Lyman tumbler bowls (Turbo 600) and a bag of #1 steel shot. After washing the shot with blue Dawn and drying it with a hair dryer, I split it between the two bowls, filling them about 1/3 each.

Prep each bowl with about 1/2 teaspoon of HBN and let it vibrate for a while, 30 minutes to an hour or so. This coats the shot nicely.

Wash the bullets in blue Dawn and hot water, dry in a lint free clean towel, then dry them with a hair dryer until they're nice and hot. The heat appears to help the HBN penetrate.

I sprinkle about 1/4 teaspoon of HBN into each bowl when I drop in the hot bullets, then tumble them for anywhere between 60 to 90 minutes.

I just use a plastic spoon to fish the bullets out of the shot, then clean of the excess HBN by sloshing them around in a clean tube sock.

It works ok for me. Your mileage may vary.

Good luck.

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

Bullet friction is not what causes barrel wear, it's the "blowtorch" effect of the burning charge, and the sandblasting caused by the powder particles being driven by the explosion.

That's why wear is most pronounced at the throat, where bullet velocity is lowest. If bullet friction were the culprit, wear would be higher at the pointy end.

The shot or BBs are not necessary if you have a rotary tumbler, only with a vibrating tumbler.

Degrease your bullets (I use denatured alcohol), dry them well, throw 'em in the hopper with a bit of powder and fire it up. I tumble for two hours in an HD Thumler, which spins @50 rpm, then wipe off the excess.

An emptied 40-oz peanut butter jar fits perfectly inside a Thumler so you can coat bullets contained in the plastic jar without also coating the inside of your tumbler. Actually, the Thumler will hold two jars side by side so you can run two separate batches -- say, different calibers or weight bullets -- at the same time without having to sort them after.

One of the lesser bennies of hBN over WS2 or Moly is that it starts out as a white powder. WS2 and Moly are black, and so is the PERMANENT stain they'll leave behind if you spill them (and you will).

Lower friction in Toronto used to be about the only source for hBN powder. I bought a lifetime supply for me and the next three generations of Dobbsies for ~$50 from Industrial Supply, Inc., in Loveland, Colo. The low, low price is an introductory offer for commercial customers so don't offer that you're a reloader when you call.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> for ~$50 from Industrial Supply, Inc., in Loveland, Colo. The low, low price is an introductory offer for commercial customers so don't offer that you're a reloader when you call. </div></div>

When I called them, I told them what I was doing and they were the ones who suggested that I use <5 hBN and did my order right over the phone. It didn't seem like they had any issue selling it to me.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?


Norma test. Not Hbn, but useful information.

http://www.6mmbr.com/normamoly.html

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

From the "Lower Friction" website, they have 4 different offerings:
70 nm
0.5 micron
1.5 micron
5 micron

has anyone used more than one of these options and found any differences in performance? For what we're doing, just stick with the cheapest or is there a viable reason for upgrading?

 

[High Binder]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From the "Lower Friction" website, they have 4 different offerings:
70 nm
0.5 micron
1.5 micron
5 micron

has anyone used more than one of these options and found any differences in performance? For what we're doing, just stick with the cheapest or is there a viable reason for upgrading?
</div></div>

Go with the 5 micro stuff. There is no reason to go nano, I have about ten lbs of nano (their 70nm option) but it's for oils and costs a lot more.

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I called them, I told them what I was doing and they were the ones who suggested that I use <5 hBN and did my order right over the phone. It didn't seem like they had any issue selling it to me. </div></div>
Good. They even filled out the ISO 9001 paperwork for the batch they sold me, which is more trouble than I thought they'd be willing to go through for a "hobby user."

 

[High Binder]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I called them, I told them what I was doing and they were the ones who suggested that I use <5 hBN and did my order right over the phone. It didn't seem like they had any issue selling it to me. </div></div>
Good. They even filled out the ISO 9001 paperwork for the batch they sold me, which is more trouble than I thought they'd be willing to go through for a "hobby user." </div></div>

Yeah the ISO stuff is why your first order takes so long. She told me my subsequent orders would be really quick by comparison because they already have the paperwork done.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?


Mine came from UK Abrasives.

 

[RingSteel]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

Thanks for posting the coating instructions.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

I used small peanut butter jars, 100 bullets and filled the jar to about 80% with BB's, 1 Lee .223 powder scoop of HbN, in the vib tumbler for about a hour, to separate the bulets and BB's a steaming pan from Walmart works great, final polish of the bullets in an old USGI wool sock, you need play with coating times based on bullets used, 155 Scenars took about a hour, 178 Amax 20 minutes, 175 SMK about 35 minutes, the thickness\hardness of the copper jacket dictates time in vib tumbler.

.5 micron is dam small, this stuff is not good for the lungs, so please take precautions and use PPE.

I think if was an anal gun scubber I would still coat my own bullets with HbN, but I'm not, and I ain't paying what Tubb charges to coat my bullets, if I ever start shooting a 6mm 115 HbN coated DTAC's will be my pill of choice.

 

[FmrChief]

Re: Boron Nitride bullet coating..?

I didn't even call. Ordered online. Great price and fast shipping.

BTW... for everyone who wants to test the waters before spending more bucks, a site called derbydust.com is selling small quantities for $9.95.

I don't know about barrel life personally, but 10-20% higher velocity and less fouling makes me very happy.

I used to use moly all the time, but the hBN has got it beat.

Happy shooting.