Bought a Savage for a build... Second guessing myself.

[R_Swanson]

Hey guys, I was posting in the thread: "Bolt Action Rifle, Where to Begin?", but I dont want to steal the OP's thread, so I thought I would start my own.

I bought a Savage 12fv when it was on sale from Cabelas to build up. My plan is: Chassis, 6.5 Creedmoor Criterion barrel, new barrel nut, new barrel lug... then shoot the thing. Upgrade the trigger when I am sick of the accutrigger or I want less than 1.5 lbs. My goal is .5 MOA when I do my part.

I have been doing some reading around here, and Savages arent loved.. sorta respected I guess, but not loved. People love Tikkas, and Rem700's are Remingtons, so yeah. I have a T3X stainless lite for a hunting rifle. Great action, decent trigger. I would have no problem buying another.

Heres the thing: I like to tinker, and IMO a lot of the inherent accuracy in the rifle is coming from the barrel, assuming its in a good stock or chassis. I dont like the idea of of not being able to swap barrels without bringing it to a gunsmith. I am also somewhat worried if I buy a Tikka CTR, put it in a chassis and it shoots 1 MOA... it would not reach my goal then I would have to pay someone to re-barrel the damn thing already, which would annoy me.. I know there are slowly but surely barrel nut systems being released for Remingtons and Tikka's, but I from what I can tell, so far its very limited and if I go with one barrel nut, I will probably be stuck with that shops system going forward. That isnt the best thing when we are dealing with small independent shops, IMO.

Do you guys mind giving me some recommendations? I know Savage has a weak extractor and kinda clunky bolt, but I like how its DIY oriented. As I said I have a Tikka and love it, but I am worried future modifications are limited.

 

[Spock]

Don't second guess yourself. I started with savages still have three and have also gone semi custom Remington's to full GAP customs. Is a defiance or bighorn etc smoother, prettier and bragging worthy? You bet. Do they do something to make it go bang any different from a savage? Nope. I have two savages in XLR chassis that shoot as well as the customs. They do tend to have more of a cold bore correction but it is repeatable. Never had an extraction issue and have run thousands of rounds through them. Yes you have to run the bolts properly but I think that builds technique. I actually really like the accutrigger as well. There are readily available pre fit barrels and more shops spinning them. With bighorns TL3 sharing tenon threads there will be more. I'm like you I like throwing something in a vice and doing it myself. I can get a barrel in a few weeks change bolt heads if necessary and go shoot. I don't have to wait 6-9 months for a rebarrel.
Build your savage and shoot the crap out of it!! Don't worry about those that say oh it's just a savage. Shoot tiny groups and smile!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I have had several Savage extractors fail on me. Every one of them failed when a primer popped. IMHO, it's asking a lot from a rifle to fault it when the handloader has already screwed the pooch with an over-pressure round. I have never had an extractor fail when there wasn't an over-pressure round. Period. So I'm thinking the issue may be somewhat overstated.

Yes, the Savage bolt can be harder to crank. Honestly, I never noticed any appreciable difference until somebody told me about it. They're right. So what? The bolt takes as much energy to operate as it takes to operate. So does any other bolt. I'm not the heftiest hunk on the line but I can still manage the Savage bolt. I know there's a fix, but I'm fine without it.

Same thing with the accutrigger. Folks have personal preferences regarding the accutrigger. I do too; I'm fine with it.

Bashers gonna bash, I'm not one.

Believe what you see all by yourself. Leave the others to their personal preferences. Forget about the recriminations of others. If there are reasons to regret building on a Savage, you'll find them; but my Savage build took place in 2001, and I am continuously happy with it to this day. I will do another Savage build someday, on a long action. The good news about the Savage build is that I needs one stock, one scope, and can accommodate any reasonable number of barrels....all by myself, yourself, etc.

When Frank did his interview on Kelly McMillan's radio program, he talked about one of the early members of The 'Hide from New York having a Savage custom from back then and who still had it and was still happy with it. I can't be certain, but my guess is that he was probably talking about mine.

Shooting .5MOA is doable with the Savage, and the limiting factor isn't the action, it's the load development. It's the same as with any other action. As long as you're building on a basic factory action, the Savage is as good as any other.

In fact, when it comes down to the basic, unmodified action, I think the Savage is as true, maybe truer than the others. I had a genuine smith build mine back before I got my goodies together to do my own barrel swaps. He built three of them at once. Checking each of them against spec, his basic comment was that they really didn't need truing, but he did it anyway. He did say he wasn't going to mess with the receiver threads at all.

Would I spin on a premium barrel without doing any action truing? Hell yes. I am working myself up to getting another L-W 28' .260 barrel and putting it on the 11VT .308 I just bought. Maybe, but the determining factor is whether it's going to be the new .308, or another one. I may end up liking the 308 I already have well enough to just leave it as it is.

This is one reason why I have several Savage rifles, and why I don't, except for that one custom, mess with the basic barreled action. They just work. No surprise to me that the others, and especially Mossberg, are taking advantage of Savage's ground breaking lead on the various 'Savage' improvements.

So when the bashers bash, I just give a little chuckle. They're entitled to their opinions, I guess...; just like I am.

Greg

 

[2c1fr]

Op as a guy just getting into this I bought a savage Model 10 I don't see how you have a problem here savage makes a great gun it will get you shooting if nothing else.

 

[Senderofan]

I wouldn't worry about accuracy potential of what you've listed. More important........is the shooter 0.5 moa or better?? I think that accuracy comes with practice. And the money you would be saving by going with the Savage....... would pay for a lot of ammo......and thus potential for practice. I've got several Savages.....mostly BVSS based rifles....all with custom barrels and recoil lug. But I also have a dual port target action with a Krieger barrel and custom stock in 6mm Dasher. That little rifle has more accuracy potential than I do as a shooter. Also, when I shoot this barrel out......I really like having the ability to easily swap barrels myself....I think others appreciate that feature as well.

As was stated.....the Savage action isn't butter smooth and isn't as purdy as a full custom action. But IMHO, they have just as much potential for accuracy as any of my blue printed Remington actions.

What's posted on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt........not everybody can afford full on custom rigs.....so if the Savage fits your budget better......build it and get shooting! You can always upgrade down the road.



​​​​​​

 

[Guy Montag]

Greg's advice (and experience) is well worth listening to, aesthetics are where most of the bitching happens regarding Savage, but once you get over that bias the case for a Savage is a solid one. Results tend to change opinions, and while I might not prefer the barrel nut aesthetics, the utility is tough to argue against. Trend towards that utility, and the ability to eliminate the need for additional smithing seems to be transitioning to other platforms. Little to no downtime is helluva selling point, Jamie Dodson's new system comes to mind and will likely be what my next rifle is built upon.

 

[steve123]

You are going to get opinions both pro and con for savage and nobody can tell your budget or other priorities. Budget, competition, or nothing serious?

I do like the savage floating bolt idea as well as the barrel nut system but that's all.

But I still come from the con side because people I know have had poor luck with box stock savage centerfires. Being a trooper and wanting to try one anyway, I bought a older savage action for a budget build, that IMO was a total POS, suffice it to say that not much worked right and there was no way I was dumping a bunch of money into it, I sold it two days later at a loss. That being said the guy I sold it to got it working decent though still not functioning quite right. He had a Shilen barrel put on without the nut and it shoots okay - just okay, it's not a overly accurate rifle, right about moa. Our gunsmith friend researched the internet and replaced the trigger and did other fixes. As you can imagine I'm glad I didn't "go there" with that project.

So due to these personal examples I swore them off because I realized I could pick pretty much any other rifle action as an upgrade for the foundation of a build. My attitude is that a savage isn't even in the same league as Tikka and if working off a budget it's what I'd choose.

It'd be rare from what I've read and experienced that a box stock Tikka would shoot over 1 moa with good ammo, especially with load work. The ones I've shot have fed and extracted perfectly and shot sub moa as well as the triggers being nice.

Pondering it further I've had experience with exactly three savages and also three Tikka's. Not one savage worked correctly, one or more things wrong. Not one Tikka had anything wrong with it.

I believe barrel nut systems should be available soon for Tikka.

 

[spife7980]

Side note-

I believe barrel nut systems should be available soon for Tikka.

The future is now
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/barrel-...uger-american/
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/replacement-tikka-t3-ruger-american-pre-fit/

 

[MATADOR]

The savage platform is perfect to start tinkering with. Spend a day reading the threads on the savage shooters forum. A criterion barrel on a savage action will outshoot most on this forum. Most people that have extractor issues are trying to launch their bullets at the speed of light. I would mess with a Tikka if used and the price was good, but I would not go out and buy a new one just to strip it down. Stay on your initial path.

 

[Wannashootit]

I'm a Savage fan...
For many, they'll shoot "well enough" out of the box.

But just as with a 700, some owners want "more". Barrel nut or traditional shouldered barrel makes no difference in consistency/accuracy itself, it's what's behind it that matters.
I true Savage actions. I've got a Model 10 in 6.5 Creedmor that just came in- and it had reportedly been shooting half-minute (but not consistently) before the owner put it a new HS Precision stock. So, I'm going to skim-bed it, and he also requested blueprinting the action to try to get better consistency. He wants to retain the ability to do barrel swaps himself- so I'm going to chase the threads concentric to the bolt raceway centerline (without cutting them ten thou over), true the receiver face and barrel nut, install a Holland's ground lug, true the lug abutments and lap the lugs (true the back of the lugs if lapping doesn't "get it"), and true the boltface.

While I prefer to cut the threads ten thou over to assure a complete "clean up", truing the existing threads will at least ensure there's no interference with the receiver face and barrel shoulder mating perfectly- which is what we're after here. The floating bolthead is an advantage in getting lug contact- but if the abutments in the receiver aren't perfectly true/perpendicular, then the boltface still ends up skewed (not perpendicular) to the centerline.

Because I'm changing more than one variable at the same time (stock bedding and action truing) so there will be no way to know where to attribute accuracy gains- but at least he'll know that his action is all it can be- and if he goes with a CBI or other prefit later it'll shoot to the quality of the new barrel.

You shouldn't be second guessing your purchase at all. Half-minute could be attainable with a quality barrel like CBI, and a ground lug and precision nut.. If you find it's not shooting to potential after load workup, check to see if there may be an issue with the chassis that would dictate skim bedding.

Good luck with your project.

 

[atefft22]

I've started my bolt gun shooting with savage 10 rifles in 308. They definitely opened the door to the long range and precision desciplins. Very easy to modify and DIY. Head spaces gauges, action and barrel wrenchs, trued nut, and lug from Northland shooters along with any multitude of small shank barrels and you my friend are very versatile. Then later down the road you can get a Bighorn or mausingfield and all those barrels swap..... pretry damn cool IMHO.

 

["Partridge"]

What about the Shilen action? The savage barrels work and it has a Remington footprint and uses a Remington trigger. You would still have the ability to swap your own barrels. If you ever wanted to sell it, you should be able to get a lot of your money back out of it. That is the one thing I have against the Savage. All of the components are comparative in price to a Remington. However the used Savage rifle will sell for far less everytime.

 

[flyright]

Don't start apoligizing for your Savage. I was always a Rem 700 guy and have owned many - some awesome and some not so very awesome - I have a shooting friend that has always been a Savage guy through thick and thin and he's had some very awesome stock Savage rifles. Some were not so good. His recent experiences influenced me to purchase a Model 12 LRP 6.5 CM - my first Savage firearm except for a shotgun I had as a kid - it has been a great rifle. It will do sub MOA with any ammo I put through it. It is .5 moa with Hornady factory and .2 (one hole) with hand loads pretty easily. It has proven to be 100% reliable and I would say that the bolt throw is better/smoother and extraction as good as any of my stock 700's or my RPR. I am leaning toward being a Savage fan. I don't particularly like their magazines but they are okay and after market ones (better) are available. I have put my POS Savage up against many other bolt actions and I have never been embarrassed. I have, however, embarrassed more than a few snobs... IMO modern - factory rifles - are now so good that it is "luck of the draw" on what a factory rifle can do. Some will out shoot custom rifles - just not every time. My .02...

 

[Hunt]

I got into a Savage bass-ackwards for long range shooting. I built custom rifles on a Surgeon, Borden and a trued Rem 700. They shot great but _HATED_ the 1+ year wait on them and worse, lack of communication. I saw the Cabela's deal on a 12FV for dirt cheap. I think it was something like $260 after rebate and discounts. I wanted something to tinker with so I bought it. I then bought a Criterion barrel in .260 and a B&C A2 stock in which I bedded myself. All up, I have around $700 into the rifle and it shoots every bit as good as any of the major 'smiths out there.

At the end of the day, ask yourself why you're questioning your decision. Is it pride in ownership or fit, finish and function? I can tell you you're not giving up anything in the accuracy dept.

Here's one example of many what it does at 1,000 yards:

 

[z71rat]

People can bash Savage Rifles all they want... I just smile and do stuff like this!! LOL

DK

Savage Predator .243Win, factory tube cut to 20", 3-shot group, 500 yards... 1.028"

 

[steve123]

Side note-


The future is now
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/barrel-...uger-american/
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/replacement-tikka-t3-ruger-american-pre-fit/

Yay! Someday...

 

[R_Swanson]

Hey guys, I appreciate all the responses. I am going to quote a few of you, but thanks to everyone. I am actually surprised at how many people love their Savages here, I dont think you would know that based on normal threads... not many people suggest them.

Someone asked my use for this gun:

I built an AR15 with a WOA barrel in an SPR'esque build and it shoots a little under .5moa when I do my part and I would like to start stretching distances and build myself another gun, this one a bolt action. So my uses will be long range shooting (goal is to stretch out over 1000 yrds) and keep improving my shooting / learning the ropes. No competitions planned as of yet, but I know its a great way to learn so that could be in my future.

I dont care too much about the aesthetics of the barrel nut. I bought my Savage sight unseen as it was a great price at Cabelas, I knew they were a great platform for a DIY build... and then started doing research. What does matter to me is the inherent quality of the action I am building off. Also, I will admit I am not extremely happy with the clunky nature of the bolt throw compared to my Tikka. My Tikka is smooth and nice and short. I did not know that was an issue and part of me is wishing I at least worked the action at the store before buying one. As this is something I am going to replace everything but the action on, I dont want to be annoyed with it or run into any issues AFTER I have parted together the entire gun, as I know I will lose money selling everything I bought.

I wouldnt say money is tight or anything, but this is my first foray into this. I dont want a high end build, as I dont think my .5MOA goal necessitates it and I can always go up from here. At the same time, I want to be happy with what I put together and do it right.

For me, this doesn't come down to a 'custom action that costs 1000 bucks and build that' vs what I have. I am pretty much considering selling the Savage 12fv and picking up a Tikka T3x CTR in a 24" 6.5 Creedmoor. The Savage is a 308 so I would have to do the barrel swap right away... The Tikka I can shoot then worry about the barrel swap depending on what type of accuracy I see. I would like to put either gun in an XLR or KRG Chassis. I know there are a couple aftermarket trigger options for the Savage, I dont see any for the Tikka. As I said before, if I cant get either gun to shoot .5MOA I will be disappointed.


Are there any further opinions on which fits the bill better? I have read other places Tikka arguably makes the best stock action and doesnt need to be trued. Is this a common opinion? Obviously others in this thread, such as Greg Langelius say the same about the Savage... and their accuracy for the money really speaks for itself IMO.

Are there any variables I am missing? Is either action inherently a better platform?

I have had several Savage extractors fail on me. Every one of them failed when a primer popped. IMHO, it's asking a lot from a rifle to fault it when the handloader has already screwed the pooch with an over-pressure round. I have never had an extractor fail when there wasn't an over-pressure round. Period. So I'm thinking the issue may be somewhat overstated.

Yes, the Savage bolt can be harder to crank. Honestly, I never noticed any appreciable difference until somebody told me about it. They're right. So what? The bolt takes as much energy to operate as it takes to operate. So does any other bolt. I'm not the heftiest hunk on the line but I can still manage the Savage bolt. I know there's a fix, but I'm fine without it.

Same thing with the accutrigger. Folks have personal preferences regarding the accutrigger. I do too; I'm fine with it.

Bashers gonna bash, I'm not one.

Believe what you see all by yourself. Leave the others to their personal preferences. Forget about the recriminations of others. If there are reasons to regret building on a Savage, you'll find them; but my Savage build took place in 2001, and I am continuously happy with it to this day. I will do another Savage build someday, on a long action. The good news about the Savage build is that I needs one stock, one scope, and can accommodate any reasonable number of barrels....all by myself, yourself, etc.

When Frank did his interview on Kelly McMillan's radio program, he talked about one of the early members of The 'Hide from New York having a Savage custom from back then and who still had it and was still happy with it. I can't be certain, but my guess is that he was probably talking about mine.

Shooting .5MOA is doable with the Savage, and the limiting factor isn't the action, it's the load development. It's the same as with any other action. As long as you're building on a basic factory action, the Savage is as good as any other.

In fact, when it comes down to the basic, unmodified action, I think the Savage is as true, maybe truer than the others. I had a genuine smith build mine back before I got my goodies together to do my own barrel swaps. He built three of them at once. Checking each of them against spec, his basic comment was that they really didn't need truing, but he did it anyway. He did say he wasn't going to mess with the receiver threads at all.

Would I spin on a premium barrel without doing any action truing? Hell yes. I am working myself up to getting another L-W 28' .260 barrel and putting it on the 11VT .308 I just bought. Maybe, but the determining factor is whether it's going to be the new .308, or another one. I may end up liking the 308 I already have well enough to just leave it as it is.

This is one reason why I have several Savage rifles, and why I don't, except for that one custom, mess with the basic barreled action. They just work. No surprise to me that the others, and especially Mossberg, are taking advantage of Savage's ground breaking lead on the various 'Savage' improvements.

So when the bashers bash, I just give a little chuckle. They're entitled to their opinions, I guess...; just like I am.

Greg

Thanks for the post Greg. I appreciate all the info. How do you compare the Savage to the Tikka's? What is your opinion. I ask because you seem very knowledgeable and are also an outspoken proponent of the Savage.

Pondering it further I've had experience with exactly three savages and also three Tikka's. Not one savage worked correctly, one or more things wrong. Not one Tikka had anything wrong with it.

What issues did you have with Savage's?

Side note-

The future is now
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/barrel-...uger-american/
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/replacement-tikka-t3-ruger-american-pre-fit/

Looks like Criterion also came out with a Tikka option with a barrel nut. Pretty cool.

Question though... will adding a barrel nut affect the fit into the chassis I buy for it (XLR or KRG, not sure which yet)? I assume it would if I bought a Tikka then swapped the barrel with a barrel nut.

The savage platform is perfect to start tinkering with. Spend a day reading the threads on the savage shooters forum. A criterion barrel on a savage action will outshoot most on this forum. Most people that have extractor issues are trying to launch their bullets at the speed of light. I would mess with a Tikka if used and the price was good, but I would not go out and buy a new one just to strip it down. Stay on your initial path.

Why wouldnt you buy a Tikka to strip it down? Your first point is exactly why I bought the Savage, reports of them shooting great groups with the Criterion and Shillen drop ins are pletiful.

I got into a Savage bass-ackwards for long range shooting. I built custom rifles on a Surgeon, Borden and a trued Rem 700. They shot great but _HATED_ the 1+ year wait on them and worse, lack of communication. I saw the Cabela's deal on a 12FV for dirt cheap. I think it was something like $260 after rebate and discounts. I wanted something to tinker with so I bought it. I then bought a Criterion barrel in .260 and a B&C A2 stock in which I bedded myself. All up, I have around $700 into the rifle and it shoots every bit as good as any of the major 'smiths out there.

At the end of the day, ask yourself why you're questioning your decision. Is it pride in ownership or fit, finish and function? I can tell you you're not giving up anything in the accuracy dept.

Here's one example of many what it does at 1,000 yards:

Yeah, the 12fv is what I picked up as well. It was more than that, but still, a nice condition Savage action is 325-350, and I paid that for the entire gun. I trust that if I drop it in a chassis and put a good barrel, barrel nut and lug on it, it will shoot... I guess I just expected the action to be nicer to work, and didnt expect to hear the random stories of the problems with Savages. I also like Tikka and didnt know that they are so loved by guys on this forum... and they are very reasonably priced as well. It is making me wonder where I should go with this.

 

[digrazir]

I would be second guessing myself...There is a reason many custom action manufacturers make Remington clones. I don't know any that make Savage clones..Someone can correct me if I am wrong..Ray

 

[spife7980]

Question though... will adding a barrel nut affect the fit into the chassis I buy for it (XLR or KRG, not sure which yet)? I assume it would if I bought a Tikka then swapped the barrel with a barrel nut.

I dont think so. Most chassis systems Ive seen have ample room to accomodate the barrel nut.

 

[spife7980]

I would be second guessing myself...There is a reason many custom action manufacturers make Remington clones. I don't know any that make Savage clones..Someone can correct me if I am wrong..Ray

Because they are super simple and have the largest market share in accessories. If youre going to make a new fancy steering wheel cover would you make it to accommodate a honda wheel or a yugo wheel? The Honda obviously as they have 1000x the market share. So its sort of circular reasoning but thats what makes the world go round, right?

It doesnt help that savage has changed their stuff up throughout the years either. Lots are incorporating savage attributes though. floating bolt head etc. But the 700 footprint is so widely adopted because its a simple cylinder externally and it hasnt changed since it entered the market. Unlike savage.

 

[jeffersonv]

Don't worry so much what people on this forum think. That's a recipe for disaster!
This will not likely be your last rifle anyways and you will surround it with other rifles that you will love in different ways, kind of like your kids (!).
Savages have their own kind of cool in hanging with your more expensive rifles while being home-made. If you like to tinker and swap your own barrels you will get lots of mileage out of a Savage.
I have lots of brands of rifles and still love my Savages.

 

[Spock]

Yup I agree nothing redeemable except little bitty groups down range for a fraction of the cost. And those sloppy boltheads suck just ask the Bighorn shooters. The worst part is having to wait 7 months for a rebarrel .....,,,

Get what ever action you want and shoot the crap out of it. If it bothers you to shoot a Savage then don't. But be certain it's not because the savage can't!

In this game you have to enjoy what you're shooting. I still have just as much fun behind my savages as I do behind my Rems, Stillers and Gaps. Some are just a bit purtier.

 

[mi223]

I read on this forum and start to feel the same way you do. Then i go out and shoot tiny groups through my xcaliber barrel hanging off from my savage 10 action and then I think "what was i worried about" i agree with greg about the extraction issues being operator induced. I am never able to get the velocity that others on this site claim with my savage. Not sure if that is the barrel or action but the sloppy savage firing pin is a issue if trying to push the velocity limits like many on this site like to do. I personally just slow it down a bit and enjoy the increased barrel life of slower velocity.

I also agree a factory savage is a bit clunky, upgrade the Tupperware stock and went to aics mags and mine feeds great.

I plan to go bighorn somday so any barrels i have are not a lost cause

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[Sendit6.5]

People can bash Savage Rifles all they want... I just smile and do stuff like this!! LOL

DK

Savage Predator .243Win, factory tube cut to 20", 3-shot group, 500 yards... 1.028"

What chassis is that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Honestly, I am completely incapable of comparing the Savage with the Tikka; I have never even seen a Tikka in the flesh. But I put great store in LowLight's opinion, and he really appears to like the Tikkas. That would be plenty good enough for me.

I have owned many other brands, and they're all good. But I stick with Savage and buy more because they work very well for me, and are about as owner customizeable as the old VW bug.

Some people just can't be happy unless they have someone, something to piss all over. Picked at random from one of our Bashers' other posts:

Oh my how you DUMB Fucks never disappoint.

Yes, we have all kinds here at The 'Hide.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

That Tikka would interest me too.

It one time I owned a nice, heavy barreled .22-250, and it was very accurate even though it had the 1:14" twist. But that accuracy probably couldn't be converted into a rifle with both long range and sustainable accuracy over a match course of fire. The cartridge just generates more heat than a barrel can dissipate over an entire COF, and accuracy opens up too wide after about half of the string.

Some of the newer laminate/sleeved barrels can handle that heat a lot better, and may be an good combination for the .22-250. If I can live much past my current 70, I'll probably try one out eventually. So many projects, etc...

Greg

PS, Oh, and Ole R; that quote. It's from you. You don't need to make people say stupid shit, you can do it all by yourself. I've decided you have exceeded my level of reasonable tolerance. You are now ignored.

 

[R_Swanson]

Old Reliable, I think your 100 something posts in the past day or so make your point buddy. We get it, you can refrain from trolling my thread now, please.

 

[R_Swanson]

Honestly, I am completely incapable of comparing the Savage with the Tikka; I have never even seen a Tikka in the flesh. But I put great store in LowLight's opinion, and he really appears to like the Tikkas. That would be plenty good enough for me.

I have owned many other brands, and they're all good. But I stick with Savage and buy more because they work very well for me, and are about as owner customizeable as the old VW bug.


Greg

I understand.

I did a ton of research over the past day. This thread helped a lot. Its obvious I can get the Savage to shoot, hell it probably shoots out of the box.

I think, versus a Tikka, its really a wash money-wise until I have to rebarrel. And it seems like, out of the box, the Tikka is decidedly the "better" action, for whatever that is worth... For my goals the barrel and a rigid stock will probably matter more, but I like the idea of a great foundation. I decided to buy a Tikka 24" CTR in 6.5 creedmoor and I will keep whichever one I like better.

CBI just released a Tikka barrel nut system (they arent selling it through NSS though, which kinda sucks). That makes 2 manufacturers and I trust CBI to keep the Tikka system going, so that makes life easier on me when it comes time to rebarrel or if I cant get the accuracy I want out of it with the stock barrel. I read a lot of reports of .5MOA with the standard CTR barrel, so hopefully that will ring true for me.

 

[R_Swanson]

Excuse me, but what is this FUCKING BULLSHIT about how I am not authorized to report a harassing post?

Greg

Greg, hes just trollin (and hes not even good at it). Leave him be.

Standard lazy troll response: I politely ask him to refrain my posting in my thread, he attacks me for being a cry baby.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Fixed the ignore, he's history for me.

 

[spife7980]

It'll come as a "surprise" only to you,that you attack yourself...simply by doing your best.
Hint.

That doesnt change the fact that you are being a prick. Hint. Literally every single person on this board has come to fucking hate you in under a day. Hint.

Lowlight, can we get a boot up in here?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

For future reference, I've hit upon a very good Savage for for use as a match/accuracy donor rifle, and I just recently bought a second for match shooting straight o/o the box, and may buy a third as a donor for a second L-W 28" 260 drop-in barrel. If this ends up a successful series of projects, that will cover F T/R MR, F T/R LR, and F Open, all for an expenditure of about $2500 including the Optics. I think that's reasonable, and cannot even be touched using other brands.

It's the Savage 11VT, a vendor special available in several chamberings. It's only available from Dick's Sporting Goods. It comes with a starter scope that's easily transferable to a hunting rifle, where it would likely do fine. I replaced it with the Mueller 8-32x44 Target Dot scope, mounted in Vortex Medium Height 30mm six-screw rings. These rings were specially chosen because the Mueller does not like being gripped tightly right up next to the turret. The six-screw rings allow the scope to be held reliably without going gorilla. But as a rifle/optics package, the entire setup goes for a decent cost, yet still manages to perform acceptably. I have two of these scopes and have been running them for about a half a decade. They work.

I shot my 223 version in the Berger SW LR Nationals last month. I was forced to retire from the match, my 70 y/o health issues kicked my butt, but the rifle was doing great at 600yd when I finished the first of three 20rd 600yd strings in the COF.

I picked up another one, a .308, back before Christmas, and my dies and brass are currently enroute inbound from Midway. If I like the way it shoots, it'll stay a .308, and I'll just buy another for the .260 conversion. Otherwise I'll replace the barrel with another L-W 28" 1:8" drop-in. I've been shooting that barrel since 2002, on a 2001 Savage 10FP action, and it' owes me not a dime.

The stock on that 11VT is a non AccuStock sporter(-ish) stock. It can be replaced relatively reasonably with something a bit more tactical, as well as reasonable.

As you can probably tell, I've been scouring the Savage lineup and other supporting accessories for a long time, with the intention of finding affordable starter/trainer setups that can be made to work in a serviceable manner. The 11VT 223 has been my 300yd club match rifle for all that time, and I recommend this package wholeheartedly, especially if the budget is an important consideration. In that time the scope replacement, load development, and a trigger adjustment constitute my entire rifle tuning approach. That's an $800-ish match rifle setup that never needed to go near a gunsmith. The .308 is headed for that same destination.

Are these two rifles match winners? I'm pretty sure they are not. But what they do constitute is a pair of good starter match rifles, fully configured and equipped to turn you into a winning match shooter without putting all that beginner wear and such into a high-dollar custom. When these rifles no longer serve, you'll be well ready for a high-dollar custom, and they will still serve ably as trainers.

Humbly submitted for your approval.

Greg

 

[308220]

I love my 2, "shit" Savages. Both shoot under 1/2 moa pretty consistently. One in 243 win and the other in 308 win. Ive never experienced the feeding/extraction issues people post about on this site. And ive sent thousands of rounds through each rifle. Hang around here long enough, and youll hear all kinds of bullshit regarding Savage rifles.

Hell, after reading on here when I first bought my Model 10, I thought my barrel would fall off when I shot it!

 

[ballisticdaddy]

I would say that if you were on a limited budget or was intended for minor upgrades the Savage would be just fine. But if you plan to upgrade to chassis, barrel, barrel nut, barrel lug and then trigger thats quite an expenditure. At that price point you could be into a Tikka or Rem 700 where you would not be limited to barrel contour nor ejector issues and would have spent about the same. I used to think my Savage rifle was capable of .5 MOA, like a lot of others posting in this thread, until I got it on the 1,000 yard line....just my two cents!

 

[308220]

I used to think my Savage rifle was capable of .5 MOA, like a lot of others posting in this thread, until I got it on the 1,000 yard line....just my two cents!

Shooting, is simple angles. If your gun will shoot .5 moa at 100 yards, it will shoot .5 moa at 1,000. The gun is just a machine. It is up to you to drive it and call your wind. It is impossible for that group to magically become bigger on its own, without shooter or environmental interference. Just like if your gun shoots .5 moa at 100 yards, that same group isnt going to be 1/4 moa at 500 yards. Impossible.


"My groups tighten up, the further I shoot!"

 

[spaniel]

I care about performance, not what others think, particularly pathetic, sad trolls. I've built three Savages, all 1/3 MOA or better. Only issue I encountered was on one the accutrigger timed wrong and caused heavy bolt lift. Replaced with a rifle basix, problem solved. Overall the action is much easier to work on than a r700. But the r700 is easier to pillar bed.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

Shooting, is simple angles. If your gun will shoot .5 moa at 100 yards, it will shoot .5 moa at 1,000. The gun is just a machine. It is up to you to drive it and call your wind. It is impossible for that group to magically become bigger on its own, without shooter or environmental interference. Just like if your gun shoots .5 moa at 100 yards, that same group isnt going to be 1/4 moa at 500 yards. Impossible.


"My groups tighten up, the further I shoot!"

My point is that there are other factors such as load development, barrel heat and wind calls that greatly play into shooting past a few hundred yards which is not so simple. I love your closing comment "My groups tighten up, the further I shoot!"

 

[z71rat]

@Sendit... It is a Masterpiece Arms BA Lite Chassis in Gunmetal Gray.

DK

 

[anon]

Accuracy/Precision is NOT lineal.

Hint.

Teach your kids how to shoot right and Accuracy/Precision is indeed lineal.

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

Old Reliable, what's it been, about 4-5 years since your last departure? Welcome back window licker..

 

[lkluemper00]

Savages are good route to be tinkering with, relatively cheaper platform but just as good if not better than Remington

 

[308220]

My point is that there are other factors such as load development, barrel heat and wind calls that greatly play into shooting past a few hundred yards which is not so simple. I love your closing comment "My groups tighten up, the further I shoot!"

And I agree. I was under the impression that the reason you dropped your Savage was because it somehow could shoot accurately at 100 yards (example), but not 1k. My point was, if its accurate at 100, itll be accurate at 1k if you do your part. The gun is capable.


Not taking into account unstable bullets from too slow a twist causing accuracy issues at long range. But that is totally on the shooter for not knowing. Again, the gun is just the tool. All about the fool behind the trigger.

 

[308220]

Salvage fucked themself hard with the AccuTrigger bullshit,as it is simply a piece of fucking shit. Their elder fire control systems,were/are vastly superior.

Have yet to see a "tricky" or "difficult" 700.

Laughing!

I have a Timney trigger in my model 112 and an Accu trigger in my model 10. I cant tell a difference. Both really good triggers.

 

[NovaHunter]

I started on savages as well. Built my Dad's .308 with a Shilen barrel and it holds .7 MOA at 100 pretty easily, and we have taken it to 1000 successively. Didn't do a whole lot of load development with it so I am pretty sure I could fine tune a load and shave off another .1 or .2 MOA if we spent the time on it.

I also took a cheap savage and replaced everything I could on it, stock, barrel, trigger, ptg bolt handle, ptg bolt head, barrel nut, recoil lug, etc.... it was a fun project. And, building on the cheap actions gave me confidence I could build on a custom action and not screw things up royally.

I moved up to 2 Shilen DGR actions, Rem 700 footprint actions threaded for savage prefit barrel. One wears a Pac-Nor 3 groove barrel, chambered by Pac-Nor for 260 AI, McRee chassis, Timney trigger. Easily groups in the .3's and .4's at 100 yards. 2nd action is a shilen .308 barrel in magpul stock. First load development session gave me .5 moa at 100 with a good hunting round. I plan on more load development this year with some match bullets.

Tinkering on savages is fun, and I think is a good plan. After you do one or two save up and plan on getting a shilen or bighorn action and you can build a custom rifle yourself. Don't forget to budget good optics for all the rifles either .

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[steve123]

I missed your question on page one.

R Swanson - What issues did you have with Savage's?

One had less than a box of rounds through it, older gun that was essentially brand new. The typical guy who used it once in awhile when he got drawn. When sighting it in for the guy the bolt wasn't easy to close on a couple types of factory ammo. 1.75" groups on average. Also when feeding, the round would jam, necessitating a pull back and upon doing so would then feed.

Guy at the range had problems with rounds popping off the extractor and staying in the port.

Mine had the grittiest bolt I've felt to date and a lousy factory trigger that didn't reset every time. Ammo not ejecting as well. Older gun too. Really it was the general lack of quality that turned me off. This broke gunsmith guy, not my friend I mentioned earlier, owed me money so getting this action was one of my few options to get something of approx value back. I tried to accept it, LOL. After I got the action I googled "savage action problems" which turned me away from going further.

At tactical matches savages seem to have the most problems.

Everybody looks at things differently. I would rather start with another brand of action personally even if it means spending a couple hundred more at the beginning. Heck, just not having to change the Tikka trigger for a aftermarket makes the decision easy for me/ spring change. The bolt is smoother than some custom actions. It has a side bolt release, It's well made and feels like it too.

Played with and owned Ruger Americans, those have fed well and always ejected perfectly, as well as being surprisingly accurate. Sold my 300BO after both of us putting down 2 three shot groups at 200Y, around an inch.

I do tend to gravitate towards quality so I went onto custom bolt actions which suits my liking infinitely more.

 

[BlackFenix]

I read on this forum and start to feel the same way you do. Then i go out and shoot tiny groups through my xcaliber barrel hanging off from my savage 10 action and then I think "what was i worried about" i agree with greg about the extraction issues being operator induced. I am never able to get the velocity that others on this site claim with my savage. Not sure if that is the barrel or action but the sloppy savage firing pin is a issue if trying to push the velocity limits like many on this site like to do. I personally just slow it down a bit and enjoy the increased barrel life of slower velocity.

I also agree a factory savage is a bit clunky, upgrade the Tupperware stock and went to aics mags and mine feeds great.

I plan to go bighorn somday so any barrels i have are not a lost cause

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

I would also have to agree with this. An XLR chassis is a great choice. I have my Savage 10 in one and have been completely happy. I can get 1 MOA with handloads out of a factory 308 and will put on a CBI or XCaliber 6.5 Creedmore by the end of the year. While I burn out my 308, I have gotten a lot of practice in that as a newer shooter has allowed me to get out to 1000 yds.

 

[346ci]

For a factory rifle they are decent, cheap and usually accurate. After dumping a lot of money into to one, mine was a little better but still had feeding problems when trying to run fast. Sold it at a big loss and got into Tikka's, those actions are sweet to be right off the shelf.

Since you already have a Tikka and know what to expect, that would be my direction. With the CTRs coming in 20" and 24" 6.5 Creedmoor with threaded barrels, easy choice.

 

[R_Swanson]

I posted this above but I think it got buried, I orded a Tikka CTR 24" that will be here this week. I might keep the Savage or sell it I am not sure yet, for what I paid I should be able to extend the deal to someone else and not really lose anything on it.

Everybody looks at things differently. I would rather start with another brand of action personally even if it means spending a couple hundred more at the beginning. Heck, just not having to change the Tikka trigger for a aftermarket makes the decision easy for me/ spring change. The bolt is smoother than some custom actions. It has a side bolt release, It's well made and feels like it too.

Sold it at a big loss and got into Tikka's, those actions are sweet right off the shelf.

Since you already have a Tikka and know what to expect, that would be my direction. With the CTRs coming in 20" and 24" 6.5 Creedmoor with threaded barrels, easy choice.

What you guys said ended up being my logic. When I looked at the Tikka's action compared to the custom Remingtons (that I would be splurging on if I felt like it), it became pretty apparent Tikka is doing it right from the start. Might not be quite as good as the customs, but side bolt release, incredibly smooth action, fairly short throw, the consensus is they dont need to be trued, and a great trigger that only needs a 10 dollar spring. To me, that added up to a perfect base to build from for what I want.

Thanks for all the help everyone. Nothing wrong with the Savage, and it would have saved me some money. I just wanted something that was a little higher end without stepping up to a $1000+ action, and I think the Tikka fits the bill.

 

[NewsShooter]

Have fun building, I have three savages, first one was a LRP in 6.5, it got me started in PRS type shooting. It has over 2500 rounds on the barrel and still shoots 1/2 moa if I do my part. Picked up antother LRP action and built a .223 for my nephew to shoot. They both have the target trigger, the .223 is set just under 6 ounces. The only drawback is you can't cycle the bolt real fast without tripping the accutrigger. The first one is about a pound and I can cycle it as fast as I want in matches. When I zero'd the scope on it I shot a 10 shot one hole group at 100 yards with Black Hills ammo. I treat the accutrigger like a two stage, light pressure on the blade till I touch the trigger. Third one is being built into a 7 saum for hunting. I've had them in Mcree chassis, hs precision and manner stocks as well. Had to open up the manners a smidge for the nut. I shoot a custom 6.5 now for PRS shooting, yes it is slicker and cycles nicer but it doesn't shoot significantly better than my original LRP action.

I also have a tikka I picked up recently, haven't had a chance to get out and shoot it yet but I can see why people like the Tikka action.

 

[pineoak]

Tikka > Savage

Out of the box the 12FV is a an amazing deal if you're good with the blind mag. That said, Savage's customer service is non-existent IME. They talk a lot, but don't walk a lot.

If you're going to build something up, go with Tikka or a Defiance/Surgeon/quality R700 clone, Mausingfield if you are willing to spend the $$$ (that would be my choice for a custom build).

Also consider getting the Tikka Tac A1 in 6.5 as it's already put together for you. I'd get that over building something up unless you just want to see something built. PVA/Josh would be a great builder.