Bought tools, NEED clarification!

G

Glen1978

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 14, 2012
354
30
45
Buena Vista, CO
#1
Allright guys I bought my reloading tools for loading my .308. RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme Master kit. Forster Ultra Micrometer die set, Little Crow Gun Works WFT trimming tool and some Imperial Sizing Wax. I have a set of GemPro 250 digi scales also for check weight. I will be loading NEVER FIRED Lake City LR primed brass with pull down SMK 175's and Varget. I know about the starting at the low end and working my way up on the charges. I know the brass needs to be F/L sized but that is where I kinda get hung up (most reloading info I have seen is for O/F brass). Do I F/L size then trim, chamfer, debur (will buy Lyman case prep after I shoot this round)? If so can I get the measurements from some FGGM brass that was fired from MY gun (new factory ammo)? What tools do I need, what are the best for the bang and what all do I need to measure to get this right? I dont wana ruin my brass or get anyone hurt.

I will picking up some good digital calipers on eBay this week too.
 
#5
Im aware of the steps to load O/F brass but being as this is new Im not sure. That is what Im asking. Ive been all over the www and all but just a little bit of info deals with once fired stuff. Just need clarification and if there are any tools that I need (head space, comparitor, etc) I need to know so I can order and get em here. I appreciate all comments but make sure were talking about NEVER fired brass pull downs.
 
#6
I would chamfer and deburr it before loading, just to clean the case mouths. As for sizing, it shouldn't need it being new, some case mouths may be dinged, just run it up far enough to engage the expander ball, don't get one stuck.
I'm not sure if I've got the whole jest of what you need, but a caliper and comparator you'll need just to seat bullets.

The best tool you can find would be a mentor, or two, just to help separate the BS.
 
#7
Since this is basically new brass, chamfer inside and out, and NECK size them. You need to neck size them because the neck tension will vary from round to round if you don't. I am processing some of the same brass, and I tried loading a few rounds without neck sizing, and the first two felt right on the press, the 3rd was VERY loose.

No need to FL size.

Oh, and then you get to decide whether or not to remove the tar from inside the necks. :)
 
#8
Thanks Pinecone, Ive already removed the tar because I didnt have anything to do. Why are some saying F/L size and some saying Neck size? Alot I have read says that neck sizing is old school technology. This well be shot from a bolt gun if that matters.
 
#10
If you F/L size you know all cases are the same (as close as possible, anyway, without weighing, sorting, neck turning, etc). Will you notice a difference on paper? Doubtful, but if you're going to set up to neck size...

If you're loading just to fireform, charge seat and shoot.
 
#11
I plan to F/L size so that I know all my brass is the same. Thats what I keep saying.....LOL! If Im gona spend the time time why half ass it? No need to bump shoulders back or anything because it is not fired correct? If no then what next. TRIM? I need these tools below to know the correct trim length right? Im just not getting the answers to what Im asking. Anything in those reloading manuals will be available on the net Im sure and from what I have read most of that info is for FIRED BRASS or NEW Lapua brass, etc. That is simply NOT what I have. Mine have been pulled on and that takes it to a different level.

Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage 5 Bushing Set Comparator
 
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#12
SABuzzard said:
Get a Manual. Lyman's Reloading Handbook is a good one. It will walk you through, step-by-step, the questions you asked and many that you missed.
Click to expand...

Glen, this is fantastic advice, and there are a number of folks replying here that suggest the same thing. Please, look a little deeper, and heed the advice. Your life and safety will thank you for it.

That being said, it is also suggested above, to maybe get a 'mentor' or two. It is MUCH better to learn the right way the first time, as opposed to learning the wrong way, and then having to change your routine AS WELL AS jeopardize your equipment and yourself.

This advice is not just suggested for yourself, but for EACH and EVERY new reloader that is starting out. First rule of thumb, start with the Lyman manual, and read the first half of the book. It'll explain each and ever step of the reloading process, and it'll go into about as much detail on each particular step as you desire. And need.

If a job is worth doing, it is worth doing well. Much to that, isn't there?
 
#13
Glen1978 said:
I plan to F/L size so that I know all my brass is the same. Thats what I keep saying.....LOL! If Im gona spend the time time why half ass it? No need to bump shoulders back or anything because it is not fired correct? If no then what next. TRIM? I need these tools below to know the correct trim length right? Im just not getting the answers to what Im asking. Anything in those reloading manuals will be available on the net Im sure and from what I have read most of that info is for FIRED BRASS or NEW Lapua brass, etc. That is simply NOT what I have. Mine have been pulled on and that takes it to a different level.

Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage 5 Bushing Set Comparator
Click to expand...

NO!!!!! you only need a caliper to measure the length of your case. NEW brass SHOULDN'T need trimming. The tool you reference is to measure something else-NOT trim length. Check your messages--I wrote you a book, but you DO need a couple manuals--in book form-not digital so you can still reference it when the .gov decides to turn the lights off or your computer crashes. The most important part of the book is the general knowledge section which needs to be read at least twice---NOT the specs. Lyman is best in this dept.
 
#14
mtrmn said:
NO!!!!! you only need a caliper to measure the length of your case. NEW brass SHOULDN'T need trimming. The tool you reference is to measure something else-NOT trim length. Check your messages--I wrote you a book, but you DO need a couple manuals--in book form-not digital so you can still reference it when the .gov decides to turn the lights off or your computer crashes. The most important part of the book is the general knowledge section which needs to be read at least twice---NOT the specs. Lyman is best in this dept.
Click to expand...

Amen, Amen, ditto, and Amen.

So much wisdom in this (and other) posts. Much to learn, grasshoppa!!!!
 
#15
Im new to this guys and trying to learn. I was taught the only dumb question is the one that wasnt ask. If Im not sure about something Im gona ask it....especially with reloading. Not gona risk my equipment or my life by winging it.
 
#16
Glen1978 said:
I plan to F/L size so that I know all my brass is the same. Thats what I keep saying.....LOL! If Im gona spend the time time why half ass it? No need to bump shoulders back or anything because it is not fired correct? If no then what next. TRIM? I need these tools below to know the correct trim length right? Im just not getting the answers to what Im asking. Anything in those reloading manuals will be available on the net Im sure and from what I have read most of that info is for FIRED BRASS or NEW Lapua brass, etc. That is simply NOT what I have. Mine have been pulled on and that takes it to a different level.

Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage 5 Bushing Set Comparator
Click to expand...

I am thinking what you are asking about is a case gage. Wlison makes a good case gage. The tool you linked to does not give the information you need to tell if your case needs trimming. A good reloading manual will have all this information included along with load data. This manual will have the MAX length and Trim To Length in its load data section for each round.
 
#17
No reason to FL resize, only neck sizing is necessary. Look at it this way, if the brass fits in your chamber, you will be fire forming the case. If you full length resize you will also be fire forming the case. It's the same result. FL sizing only limits case life. You can't guarantee accurate loads until fire forming is complete and you're loading those cases again.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk 2
 
#18
As stated earlier I plan to full length size! I already spent $100 bucks on Forster Ultra die set with the micrometer built in. Every sticky I have read and from the KNOW seems they think that full length sizing is the way to go and that Neck sizing is old school.
 
#19
People are telling you to neck size just to uniform the neck tension on you Brass.They are say this because the brass is new and is already primed.After you fire the Brass than you should Full Length Size.When you just neck size Fired Brass some times you will have chambering problems.Especially if its has been fired 3 or 4 times. Full Length Sizing will prevent those problems.The key to FL -Sizing is just to size the fired Brass around .001 for a bolt Gun and about .003 for a Gas Gun.Just apply you case lube evenly and be consistent with your stoke on the Press.Also wait about a second when you bottom out on the down stoke.This will let the Brass equalize and give you more consistent sizing.Its common to have +/- .001 when you are sizing Brass.Hope this explanation helps.
Regards,Mike
 
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#21
You can size the brass to uniform the neck tension. Just set the die up to not bump the shoulder back. Also, you will need to remove the decapping pin from your sizing die, so you don't ignite the primers. Personally, when I get new brass I just run it half way into the die and then back over the expander ball and then chamfer the necks. This step irons out any dents in the case necks, but doesn't resize the body of the case. I haven't had any problems doing this even on primed brass. I have never worked with pulled cases, so you may have to size the neck down to get the desired neck tension. What is the purpose of your rifle and ammo? If it is just target shooting, you should be OK if the neck tension is a little light on the first firing.
 
#22
My purpose on this first round is to just get a "handle" on reloading and get more used to my gun. Im not sure if this means anything but I have the pull down bullets also and you cant get close to just pushing one in the case mouth. Thats for sure. Its a TIGHT fit!

I knew to take the decapping pin out, thanks for reminding me though. So just run them partially in to get the expander ball in and back out to clean up the necks from any dings and what not? I sure see ALOT of folks saying they ALWAYS FULL LENGTH SIZE any NEW brass. This ammo will be for MY gun only......as for now anyway.
 
#23
You can use your FL Die to to resize the neck.Just use a little lube on the inside of the neck.You should not have to lube the whole case.Just remove the decapping pin from the die so you do not damage/knock out the good primer.Just do not screw the die down too far and over size the brass or may get a stuck case unless you lube the whole case.

You will need to use expander ball .With out it the neck will be too tight..
Regards,Mike
 
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#24
When you use FL dies in the normal manner, you are usually instructed to: (clean your dies first!)
1 install the shellholder
2 raise the ram all the way to top of stroke
3 screw the sizing die into the top of the press until it contacts the shell holder
4 lower the ram slightly by lifting the handle and screw the die down just a tad more
5 raise the ram again until the shell holder contacts the bottom of the die
6 go ahead and push the handle down a bit more to make sure the press will "cam over" with a light amount of extra effort required
7 once this "cam over" point has been reached, lock down the die lock ring to keep it from moving.

If you are going to FL re-size your brass, the above instructions will work fine. DON'T FORGET TO LUBE YOUR CASES! Your decision, BUT
YOUR brass is already full-length sized, so only the neck NEEDS sizing. If you decide to only size the neck using your dies, then read below.

When you want to neck size with your FL dies, do NOT perform steps 4 through 7 Instead, when you determine the point of contact with the shell holder in step 3, you then back the die off about 1 round to make sure the shoulders of your NEW, ALREADY-SIZED brass do not come in contact with the interior of the die. The only contact you want is in the neck of the case to return it to the proper size to grip the bullet. The neck was expanded previously when the original bullet was seated and then pulled back out. If the case makes contact inside the die other than in the neck area, it WILL stick without lube. You will then be unable to proceed until the stuck case is removed from your expensive die. You will utter harsh expletives at this point.
Everybody here is trying to help, but I'm not sure they all understand that you've never reloaded a single round as of yet.
 
#25
Would you FL size factory ammo before you shoot it?

If not, why would you want to size brass that has only had the bullet pulled, not fired?

New brass is already at the proper size. If you get a Wilson Case Gauge, I am sure the brass will drop right in.

You need to neck size because a bullet has been inserted and removed. You might be OK, and you might not have enough neck tension.

Don't worry, you will use the dies you bought.
 
#26
Im headin out in a minute to go to Cabelas or Bass Pro and pick up some shell holders for my press and get me that Lyman book. Anything else I need? Need some digi calipers too but might just grab some from Harbor Freight to get me by awhile.

I hear yall loud and clear now. Now everything is clear to me. Thanks MtrMn and Pinecone!
 
#27
Hey guys went to Bass Pro last night and got the Lyman book, my shell holder, and a set of Lyman digi calipers. The book hit on most of the things I already knew.....I was actually a little disappointed it didnt go into more detail. Granted it is nice to see some pics and have everything in one place and to have a start for load workup. Basically I learned to trim brass to 2.005" and to set OAL with my Sierra 175 gr HPBT to 2.800".
 
#28
Did you read the first half of the book? That's the most important......
After 30 yrs reloading I still get mine down and read through the general reloading sections from time to time.
 
#29
mtrmn said:
Did you read the first half of the book? That's the most important......
After 30 yrs reloading I still get mine down and read through the general reloading sections from time to time.
Click to expand...


Yeah read all the way to the cartridge breakdown. I did omit the handgun reloading section as it doesnt apply to me right now and didnt wana get mixed up with any information. It was a good thing in the way that it described the basics to get you in the game. Told to load to OAL and leave it there although it did mention other ways of seating but didnt get off on a tangent talking about it. BASICS, BASICS, BASICS. Pretty sure thats what you told me.
 
#30
Glen1978 said:
Yeah read all the way to the cartridge breakdown. I did omit the handgun reloading section as it doesnt apply to me right now and didnt wana get mixed up with any information. It was a good thing in the way that it described the basics to get you in the game. Told to load to OAL and leave it there although it did mention other ways of seating but didnt get off on a tangent talking about it. BASICS, BASICS, BASICS. Pretty sure thats what you told me.
Click to expand...

Yes-basics is where it's at. You'll be pleasantly surprised how well your ammo will perform compared to most factory ammo once you get a load your gun likes. Once you see improvements in group size though, the addiction will really kick in and you'll be locked into a never-ending pursuit of accuracy.......that's where all those other more advanced (and expensive) tricks will come into play. I don't think there's a cure for this.
 
#34
Glen---take a look at this thread and keep the valuable info in it in mind AFTER you get the basics nailed down. Since you're using a bolt gun you can do the shoulder bump thing (basically just a partial re-size to insure your rounds will chamber reliably) and get many more reloads out of your brass plus more accuracy. I did not find any advice in the entire thread that was not useful/educational and Greg had a one-liner in there that I will have to burn into my hard drive when I load for my bolt guns.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...tion-pressure-something-else-yes-picture.html
 
#35
Got most of my reloading stuff in yesterday so got after it. A little run down. I set up the Forster F/L sizing die according to Mtrman, wasnt hard to do at all. Neck sized 500 pieces. Put the decapping pin back in and F/L sized 39 pieces of mixed headstamp / once fired stuff I had. Then went to set up the Little Crow Gun Works WFT trimmer. Kinda a pain in the ass without a master case. I dug in my LC LR brass till I found a 2.005 case and set it up. It trimmed pretty dang fast. Really impressed with that thing. I put in a 2.005 case but most trimmed to 2.003 or 4 for some reason....not to worried about this as they will "grow" back. Just gona have a little learning curve on it. Oh, my RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme Master kit I ordered from Woodbury Outfitters off of Ebay came in yesterday minus everything but the press....CRAP! They made it right without hassle so they are GTG in my book. So Im short a lot of my case prep items. Anyway once again I wana thank alot of you guys for helping my get started.
 
#36
So far so good. Don't sweat the over-trimmed brass-my RCBS X-dies want you to initially trim like .010" below the recommended trim-to length.
Too bad you didn't get a scale, you could go ahead and load a couple experimental rounds.......
 
#37
Ive got GemPro250 digital scale..... no chamfer/debur tools. I setup. The seating die and pressed a few dummy rounds for the kids. Might run down to the pawn shop and grab a pound of IMR 4064 or Varget since my keg of 4064 hasnt shipped yet.
 
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