Brand loyalty. Bias opinions.

[Nik H]

I knew that would be coming my way eventually from an AI owner no less.

I can't ban you like Frank almost did on another thread...LOL. We're not assholes just poorly understood.

I also got one of these delivered today to go on my new AXMC. Put the NF 7-35 back on the AT. Put the S&B 5-25 back on my Annie...get the picture??

I own a shit ton of H&K as well

 

[mgrs]

I drive trucks, have my own range, and pussy likes me. I’m a Sako shooter.

View attachment 7310491

Out of the mainstream high end/professional grade premium production rifles, I've seen the least insufferable brand bias out of the Sako folks.

What you see sort of depends on the community, though. Go to AR15.com and the Geissele/LaRue army turf wars are impressive.

 

[Nik H]

For 10 years I drove a Fit, first as a second car to my truck then as my only car. 6 weeks ago I loaned it, with over 238,000 miles, to my daughter and got myself this
View attachment 7310441

View attachment 7310442

Pride of ownership shows

 

[Aries256]

This same reason is why I am not a Raider fan.

Why Im not a fan of honda, (when they existed) scion, android, beats, etc. fanboyism can get so annoying.

 

[LawnMM]

everybody's here with different goals in mind and we all base our decisions on those goals.

Some guys just want to shoot better on their own and they don't see the need to spend money when they've never seen the benefit of doing so.

Some guys have real world experience and they make purchases based on the sort of stuff they've seen tumble end over end down a mountain in durka durkastan and they've developed trust in stuff based on their experience.

Some guys like to compete, maybe they've seen certain gear fail, or had it hose them personally in a competitive environment.

Somebody once said you should have to post your qualifications along with your opinion. It's be nice to put all the internet advice into the context of the experience and qualifications of the guys giving it.

I started in this sport because I was interested. Then I got into competition. I work in LE. So I like to think I've got a well rounded appreciation for the different groups of guys involved in this sport.

As a guy who likes competing, I can say this: once your gear fucks you, the experience isn't enjoyable or one you're likely to tolerate in the future.

A lot of the MIL guys will place extra emphasis on this from the get go, because in a match a gear failure will cost you points. On a two way range you might not make it home.

Doesn't mean the weekend plinker needs to drop $18k on an AI deployment kit, but likewise I wouldn't turn up my nose at somebody that spends the cash either. You never know who you might be talking to or what kind of experience they've got in their back pocket.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

So I shouldn't show a picture of my safe full of Savages?

 

[pmclaine]

When you open your wallet for an expensive, or lusted for item, you not only invest financially but emotionally.

Your friends response was his emotional expression of his financial commitment.

This is a psychological response to all things that are not in the generic category.

Except for buying Hondas.

@308pirate nails it.....That shit is real.

6 years ago I traded the family unfriendly Ford F150 in for a Honda Pilot in preparation for a family cross country vacation.

Could have gave a shit about that, at the time, stupid Pilot, but in 6 years Ive come to regard it as a comfortable, dependable vacation roller.

That and the fact its made in USA by non UAW workers warms the cockles of my heart.

 

[pmclaine]

everybody's here with different goals in mind and we all base our decisions on those goals.

Some guys just want to shoot better on their own and they don't see the need to spend money when they've never seen the benefit of doing so.

Some guys have real world experience and they make purchases based on the sort of stuff they've seen tumble end over end down a mountain in durka durkastan and they've developed trust in stuff based on their experience.

Some guys like to compete, maybe they've seen certain gear fail, or had it hose them personally in a competitive environment.

Somebody once said you should have to post your qualifications along with your opinion. It's be nice to put all the internet advice into the context of the experience and qualifications of the guys giving it.

I started in this sport because I was interested. Then I got into competition. I work in LE. So I like to think I've got a well rounded appreciation for the different groups of guys involved in this sport.

As a guy who likes competing, I can say this: once your gear fucks you, the experience isn't enjoyable or one you're likely to tolerate in the future.

A lot of the MIL guys will place extra emphasis on this from the get go, because in a match a gear failure will cost you points. On a two way range you might not make it home.

Doesn't mean the weekend plinker needs to drop $18k on an AI deployment kit, but likewise I wouldn't turn up my nose at somebody that spends the cash either. You never know who you might be talking to or what kind of experience they've got in their back pocket.

When buying an item that is not generic and has to do with a hobby or personally satisfying endeavor only one thing matters......your physical response that occurs when you discover the product you really desire.

Do you feel an ache in your balls when you study the item?, do you salivate?, does your head hurt with lust?, do you have an empty feeling in your stomach?

If a particular item gives you those responses getting that item will be the only thing to satisfy you.

Everyone can be telling you to "Get X. Its the best." but if your physical response is for Y you will never be happy until you have Y.

Should you buy X you will always wonder if Y was better or once you have X each of its deficiencies will be magnified in your mind - eventually you will spend more money and get Y.

If Y is too expensive for you buy an affordable functional place keeper and save your money until you can afford Y.

You will save money in the long run satisfying your physical lust.......unless we are talking women......that shit will cost you.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

The only brand loyalty that I have is Harley Davidson. Been riding them since the 80's. Took the woman for a ride on a Honda Goldwing and she said she would rather not ride if that was the choice.

 

[pmclaine]

The only brand loyalty that I have is Harley Davidson. Been riding them since the 80's. Took the woman for a ride on a Honda Goldwing and she said she would rather not ride if that was the choice.

My understanding is HD no longer reciprocates that loyalty.

Bring in a bike with any age on it they wont even work on em anymore.

Ive got a 96RK rotting in the garage that I am greatful to be all tooled up for, has a carb and minimal computer control.....service is on me.

 

[308pirate]

That and the fact its made in USA by non UAW workers warms the cockles of my heart.

+1

The Honda Accord is the state vehicle of Ohio. Millions of them have rolled out of Marysville Assembly since 1982, not one touched by union labor.

Same goes for the millions of engines and transmissions cast, forged, machined, and assembled at the Anna Engine Plant and the Russells Point Transmission Plant.

I think I've mentioned this before but Ohio's manufacturing base would be shadow of what it is today had Honda abandoned the state like Ford, GM, and Chrysler have. Instead of leaving, Honda grew here.

30 years, 20 million engines

Almost that many transmissions

Job #1

And counting.......…..

 

[pmclaine]

+1

The Honda Accord is the state vehicle of Ohio. Millions of them have rolled out of Marysville Assembly since 1982, not one touched by union labor.

Same goes for the millions of engines and transmissions cast, forged, machined, and assembled at the Anna Engine Plant and the Russells Point Transmission Plant.

I think I've mentioned this before but Ohio's manufacturing base would be shadow of what it is today had Honda abandoned the state like Ford, GM, and Chrysler have. Instead of leaving, Honda grew here.

And its good to know should we ever get in to conflict with Japan we can hold them to duress by threatening to not ship them anymore Hondas just as the ChiComs are threatening us now regards our medication supplies...........

We are truly dumb.

 

[pmclaine]

On second thought......

There is no buyer bias.

There is only TRUTH.

Bought this out of the PX yesterday.....

Colt, CZ, Glock (especially Glock), Sig, any of the custom builders suck.

This pistol, and this pistol only, is the only one to buy.

Its not bias, its truth.

 

[308pirate]

And its good to know should we ever get in to conflict with Japan we can hold them to duress by threatening to not ship them anymore Hondas just as the ChiComs are threatening us now regards our medication supplies...........

We are truly dumb.

I think it's an understatement to say that there's a fundamental difference in our history, political relations, and trade relations with Japan vs China.

I also think that the Japanese industrial investment here is a sign of confidence in our ability to produce to the highest standards. So much confidence, in fact, that Honda's $150,000 flagship is manufactured only in Ohio for sale throughout the world.

 

[pmclaine]

I think it's an understatement to say that there's a fundamental difference in our history, political relations, and trade relations with Japan vs China.

I also think that the Japanese industrial investment here is a sign of confidence in our ability to produce to the highest standards. So much confidence, in fact, that Honda's $150,000 flagship is manufactured only in Ohio for sale throughout the world.

People forget the industrial revolution was brought to you buy the USA.

While every other industrialized country was marking each part of there guns with a specific number to ensure function after hand fitting we were letting sub contractors produce parts for assembly with other components to produce functional and efficient stuff.

Yet the mantra is "We can not manufacture here."

 

[E. Bryant]

Yet the mantra is "We can not manufacture here."

Yep, and even when faced with the sort of evidence that 308pirate posted above, they still spout the same tired bullshit excuses. It's disgusting that so many self-styled patriots would blindly agree to sell out their country and fellow citizens to save a trivial amount of money in the short term, but that's the environment in which we live and we are about to face the consequences in the most obvious manner possible.

If one can't buy something made in America, at least purchase it from a country of origin that is a strategic ally and has a general-acceptable standard of living - Japan, UK, Germany, etc. Buying stuff from adversaries with a lower standard of living undermines the security of this nation and patriots need to put an end to it.

As a side note - I spent 14 years working for a company that supplied parts to Honda. They are IMHO the best customer in the auto industry - tough, yes, but also very fair in its business practices and extremely competent in providing the best value to its customers. Shame that that don't make the sort of vehicles that I currently wish to drive, but part of what makes them special is that they don't try to do everything.

 

[E. Bryant]

And its good to know should we ever get in to conflict with Japan we can hold them to duress by threatening to not ship them anymore Hondas just as the ChiComs are threatening us now regards our medication supplies...........

We are truly dumb.

BTW, it should be pointed out that Honda's general manufacturing philosophy is "build stuff where it's sold". Now, they don't do this solely out of the goodness of their hearts; it generally allows them to tailor product to a local market (like regional-specific Accords) and insulates them to currency fluctuations and tariffs. I'm not saying that they are perfect in this regard (plenty of their parts come from a single source which is not always in the same country as the vehicle assembly plant), but I'd dare say they are generally the best in the industry.

 

[308pirate]

Yep, and even when faced with the sort of evidence that 308pirate posted above, they still spout the same tired bullshit excuses.

There two kinds of people who claim we can't make stuff here competitively.
1. Those whose financial and/or political position is enhanced if we don't
2. Those who are ignorant and listen to those in 1. above who pass themselves off as experts

 

[E. Bryant]

There two kinds of people who claim we can't make stuff here competitively.
1. Those whose financial and/or political position is enhanced if we don't
2. Those who are ignorant and listen to those in 1. above who pass themselves off as experts

Fuckin' amen, brother - preach on.

And now I gotta go get some work done in hopes that it'll give some Americans a nifty part to build in a few years.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Don’t forget Toyota Sienna and tundra both made in the USA . Seem like the most reliable vehicles are made in the USA. I recall seeing an article about the most American made vehicles were Honda and Toyota



1. Jeep Cherokee, Belvidere, Illinois

2. Honda Odyssey, Lincoln, Alabama

3. Honda Ridgeline, Lincoln, Alabama

4. Honda Passport, Lincoln, Alabama

5. Chevrolet Corvette, Bowling Green, Kentucky

6. Acura MDX (excludes hybrid variants), East Liberty, Ohio

7. Honda Pilot, Lincoln, Alabama

8. Chevrolet Colorado, Wentzville, Missouri

9. GMC Canyon, Wentzville, Missouri

10. Acura RDX, East Liberty, Ohio

11. Chevrolet Camaro, Lansing, Michigan

12. Toyota Avalon (excludes hybrid variants), Georgetown, Kentucky

13. Ford F-150, Claycomo, Missouri / Dearborn, Michigan

14. Honda Accord, Marysville, Ohio

15. Toyota Tundra, San Antonio

Jeep Cherokee remains the most American car of the year, according to Cars.com

As tariff threats on imported goods loom, Cars.com took a look at which automobiles are predominantly manufactured in the US. The Jeep Cherokee wins.

www.usatoday.com

Camrys and siennas are also made here

 

[Chris777]

When you open your wallet for an expensive, or lusted for item, you not only invest financially but emotionally.

Your friends response was his emotional expression of his financial commitment.

This is a psychological response to all things that are not in the generic category.

Except for buying Hondas.

@308pirate nails it.....That shit is real.

6 years ago I traded the family unfriendly Ford F150 in for a Honda Pilot in preparation for a family cross country vacation.

Could have gave a shit about that, at the time, stupid pilot, but in 6 years Ive come to regard it as a comfortable, dependable vacation roller.

That and the fact its made in USA by non UAW workers warms the cockles of my heart.

I try not to purchase items emotionally. I would have sprung for a Schmidt? Sure, however after literally years of reading reviews, being able to look through both the pm2 and razor gen 2 and reading about the point of diminishing returns I decided on the vortex based on price per performance. Plus, the generous warranty that makes the purchase so much easier

I always knew my buddy was anti vortex but this whole thing came about because I sent him a link of the article about vortex making a prototype sight for the Army and his first response was "It will fall about". I laughed out loud and just felt that was such a ridiculous, unfounded comment based on nothing more than hear say and ONE five minute ordeal that happened over a decade ago.

What actually bugs me though is insisting that a company with a fairly solid recent reputation can not and will not attempt to fix its short comings. To me that's ignorant.

 

[pmclaine]

BTW, it should be pointed out that Honda's general manufacturing philosophy is "build stuff where it's sold". Now, they don't do this solely out of the goodness of their hearts; it generally allows them to tailor product to a local market (like regional-specific Accords) and insulates them to currency fluctuations and tariffs. I'm not saying that they are perfect in this regard (plenty of their parts come from a single source which is not always in the same country as the vehicle assembly plant), but I'd dare say they are generally the best in the industry.

There is a beautiful building in Cambridge MA. Its Art Deco/Industrial style always catches my eye....

Ford used to build cars there circa 1913-1926.

How intuitive to think rather than get a one sized fits all engine from Mexico building locally you could have cars roll off the line suitable for use in the Northeast while cars made in Florida be set up for that region.

Granted regional production probably doesnt make sense today but Honda has it right with building and living in the target market.

 

[pmclaine]

I try not to purchase items emotionally. I would have sprung for a Schmidt? Sure, however after literally years of reading reviews, being able to look through both the pm2 and razor gen 2 and reading about the point of diminishing returns I decided on the vortex based on price per performance. Plus, the generous warranty that makes the purchase so much easier

I always knew my buddy was anti vortex but this whole thing came about because I sent him a link of the article about vortex making a prototype sight for the Army and his first response was "It will fall about". I laughed out loud and just felt that was such a ridiculous, unfounded comment based on nothing more than hear say and ONE five minute ordeal that happened over a decade ago.

What actually bugs me though is insisting that a company with a fairly solid recent reputation can not and will not attempt to fix its short comings. To me that's ignorant.

Emotion is not "I love the color!".

That visceral, physical reaction I described is your instinct confirming your well thought out research.

"The right one" gives you the boner.

The only thing to bring peace to mind and body is to buy that item.

Settling for less will bring you dissonance.

Tell your buddy to fuck himself.

 

[FS1]

On second thought......

There is no buyer bias.

There is only TRUTH.

Bought this out of the PX yesterday.....

View attachment 7310756

View attachment 7310757

View attachment 7310758

Colt, CZ, Glock (especially Glock), Sig, any of the custom builders suck.

This pistol, and this pistol only, is the only one to buy.

Its not bias, its truth.

According to the ATF that is not a Pistol...It's a revolver.

 

[pmclaine]

Yep, and even when faced with the sort of evidence that 308pirate posted above, they still spout the same tired bullshit excuses. It's disgusting that so many self-styled patriots would blindly agree to sell out their country and fellow citizens to save a trivial amount of money in the short term, but that's the environment in which we live and we are about to face the consequences in the most obvious manner possible.

If one can't buy something made in America, at least purchase it from a country of origin that is a strategic ally and has a general-acceptable standard of living - Japan, UK, Germany, etc. Buying stuff from adversaries with a lower standard of living undermines the security of this nation and patriots need to put an end to it.

As a side note - I spent 14 years working for a company that supplied parts to Honda. They are IMHO the best customer in the auto industry - tough, yes, but also very fair in its business practices and extremely competent in providing the best value to its customers. Shame that that don't make the sort of vehicles that I currently wish to drive, but part of what makes them special is that they don't try to do everything.

I own a CA made USO.

Its a finely engineered tool in the Soviet sense it serves its intended purpose and can be used as a baseball bat should you need to.

I bought an S&B because no US manufacturer had something comparable. Its a great scope.

Some of my funnest scopes are some $300, 3-9X capped turret Leupolds that I only use reticle holds with and have to dial down if I want to shoot beyond 5 mils.

I try to buy American and Ill pay the price increase for doing that but function and quality has to be there.

 

[pmclaine]

According to the ATF that is not a Pistol...It's a revolver.

You sir are correct.

Was "Pistol Packin Momma" carrying a 1911?

 

[brianf]

its all about the criteria,

if you are looking for a drag racing car and all the reviews you can find say its one of the fastest but then you are pissed why the tires arent lasting 30,000 miles

its not the reviewers fault, its not the tires fault, and its not the cars fault..

you didnt have the correct criteria, or complete understanding of what you wanted

ive had some "cool" sports cars...most of them had a issues big or small

but i knew going into it that expecting a radio to work and sound as well as a Cadillac (for example) was not going to happen

if i expected it, im a fool

there are certain space requirements needed for speakers to generate sounds and certain interior features needed for sound clarity...those particular cars i owned had neither.

not because of improper design, but impossible packaging in the limited space


1980's planned obsolescence werent junk products, they were just products that were designed with a particular life span as a target

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

An 80 CI Evo motor. I wish I still had one. Basic and easy to work on. Sound great with the right cam.
I am jealous!

My understanding is HD no longer reciprocates that loyalty.

Bring in a bike with any age on it they wont even work on em anymore.

Ive got a 96RK rotting in the garage that I am greatful to be all tooled up for, has a carb and minimal computer control.....service is on me.

I have a 17 now and there's only a few things I will let them work on. They have a couple specialized tools that are too expensive.

 

[Rthur]

Manufacturing wasn't killed by our ability to make quality products.

R

 

[brianf]

There two kinds of people who claim we can't make stuff here competitively.
1. Those whose financial and/or political position is enhanced if we don't
2. Those who are ignorant and listen to those in 1. above who pass themselves off as experts

not 100%

i think i posted something like this somewhere a few months ago,

in the pharma industry there are certain commodity products that are "unmakable" in the US as the current price point

ascorbic acid/citric acid/vitramin c is one

those products are in almost every drink and cereal etc.

the byproduct/waste is pretty toxic and needs to be treated

in china they dump it into the ground

in the US the waste material will drive the cost through the roof

think of dry cleaners, they have to treat the waste water adding cost

in china they just dump it..no cost added

we have the tech and the material (we do make some in the CONUS), but if we were to bring it all "in house" every product that uses that material would have to increase in price

then everyone starts yelling that snappple is not 25 cents more...screw them...they are making too much money... how does a iced-t cost X etc..

wonder 90% of all blue jeans are dyed in china?

they ARE supposed to be treating the waste water:

what side of the river do you think has jean dying processing plants;

in the us they'd go to jail or they'd process the waste water making all jeans cost more

there is no free lunch on this one, its going to be up to the consumer to choose higher costs or made in USA on alot of goods

 

[pmclaine]

An 80 CI Evo motor. I wish I still had one. Basic and easy to work on. Sound great with the right cam.
I am jealous!

I have a 17 now and there's only a few things I will let them work on. They have a couple specialized tools that are too expensive.

I put a Merch Performance 120, 4.25 x 4.25, square motor in mine. The Merch is a trip. It had decompression buttins before they became typical. Starting it up had everyone look for air leaks until gas, spark and air created life.

The Evo sits near by covered unceremoniously in plastic ready to be installed as a spare if need be.

When I went to a Harley dealer and wanted to buy a Jims Manufacturing piece of Delrin for approximately $5 to lock the primary so I could impact off a nut for the clutch housing and the guy behind the counter said "Just stick your hammer handle in the primary chain, thats what we do..." I figured I needed to tool up and learn to do my own motor work/service to the extent I could.

 

[FXDWG]

So, Harley is a lot like Savage or Remington, great when you replace most of their shit with aftermarket in order to fix stuff that should have been right from the factory.

 

[pmclaine]

So, Harley is a lot like Savage or Remington, great when you replace most of their shit with aftermarket in order to fix stuff that should have been right from the factory.

Nah, I found more often than not HD parts were the way to go. Especially items like gaskets, hardware, consummables.

Screaming Eagle is generally shit.

Really all they needed was opening up the EPA mandates so the engine could actually get some gas and breathe. So buy a Mikuni, get some cams, open the exhaust (Thunder Header 2 into 1) let the breathers dump on the highway and keep a clean K&N air filter in place.

Only reason I got the Merch Motor was from running a sidecar hard I wore out the EVO at about 50K miles. The extra tourque on the 120 was to fix that but once I took the sidecar off it never went back on. Been sitting in my shed since 2000 or so and the bike has been sitting since 2008 or so.

Kids and a rifle hobby ended the riding.

Its my most depressing life experience seeing that bike sit in the garage covered with kids shit.

 

[FXDWG]

EVO yes, the only negative was the crank bearing, early twin cams are great when you replace everything in the cam chest with aftermarket, as long as the crank runout is at least half of the max. The EVO is half of the work as the Twin cam and the rigid mount Sportster is unblowupable.

 

[308pirate]

not 100%

i think i posted something like this somewhere a few months ago,

in the pharma industry there are certain commodity products that are "unmakable" in the US as the current price point

ascorbic acid/citric acid/vitramin c is one

those products are in almost every drink and cereal etc.

the byproduct/waste is pretty toxic and needs to be treated

in china they dump it into the ground

in the US the waste material will drive the cost through the roof

think of dry cleaners, they have to treat the waste water adding cost

in china they just dump it..no cost added

we have the tech and the material (we do make some in the CONUS), but if we were to bring it all "in house" every product that uses that material would have to increase in price

then everyone starts yelling that snappple is not 25 cents more...screw them...they are making too much money... how does a iced-t cost X etc..

wonder 90% of all blue jeans are dyed in china?

they ARE supposed to be treating the waste water:

what side of the river do you think has jean dying processing plants;

View attachment 7310928

View attachment 7310930

in the us they'd go to jail or they'd process the waste water making all jeans cost more

there is no free lunch on this one, its going to be up to the consumer to choose higher costs or made in USA on alot of goods

A) I didn't say we could make everything for the cheapest possible cost
B) You (and many people) confuse "being competitive" with "being the cheapest". Most often they are not the same thing.
C) Dry cleaning is a service, not manufacturing

But thanks for trying

 

[pmclaine]

EVO yes, the only negative was the crank bearing, early twin cams are great when you replace everything in the cam chest with aftermarket, as long as the crank runout is at least half of the max. The EVO is half of the work as the Twin cam and the rigid mount Sportster is unblowupable.

1936 technology.....it cant be beat but it was matched in 1957.

Knuckles were always scarce in my memory but Pans and Shovels were frequently seen. Seems like all that cool is gone now and even the Evo is seldom seen.

 

[E. Bryant]

1980's planned obsolescence werent junk products, they were just products that were designed with a particular life span as a target

Most of that 1980s stuff wasn't "planned obsolescence"; it was junk from day 1, and if it lived long enough to make someone think that it was designed well end to fall apart just past end of warranty, then that was a happy coincidence.

Heck, even nowadays, it's tough to get stuff to fall at a predictable age. If consumer electronics get scrapped for failures (as opposed to failing out of fashion), it's almost always due to degradation of the battery or electrolytic capacitors (leadless solder joints are also problematic, but not so much as energy storage elements). Cars go end-of-life for a variety of reasons, but rarely is it because the whole thing stopped working; the cars in scrapyards are usually still 99% functional.

The issues I've seen in automotive are not malicious in intent. Sometime makes a honest technical mistake or does a poor job selecting the right trade-off between cost and performance, and then you've got pissed-off customers and warranty claims. No one likes that shit. There are indeed design targets (15 years/250,00 miles being somewhat typical), but the specified duty cycle is bizarrely difficult (often extracted from usage data for taxi cabs, police cars, etc.) and parts are tested for periods well beyond the spec (Germans in particular love test-to-failure). Misses happen for a variety of reasons, but it's never been the intention of those involved. It's just that we're human.

 

[pmclaine]

Most of that 1980s stuff wasn't "planned obsolescence"; it was junk from day 1, and if it lived long enough to make someone think that it was designed well end to fall apart just past end of warranty, then that was a happy coincidence.

Heck, even nowadays, it's tough to get stuff to fall at a predictable age. If consumer electronics get scrapped for failures (as opposed to failing out of fashion), it's almost always due to degradation of the battery or electrolytic capacitors (leadless solder joints are also problematic, but not so much as energy storage elements). Cars go end-of-life for a variety of reasons, but rarely is it because the whole thing stopped working; the cars in scrapyards are usually still 99% functional.

The issues I've seen in automotive are not malicious in intent. Sometime makes a honest technical mistake or does a poor job selecting the right trade-off between cost and performance, and then you've got pissed-off customers and warranty claims. No one likes that shit. There are indeed design targets (15 years/250,00 miles being somewhat typical), but the specified duty cycle is bizarrely difficult (often extracted from usage data for taxi cabs, police cars, etc.) and parts are tested for periods well beyond the spec (Germans in particular love test-to-failure). Misses happen for a variety of reasons, but it's never been the intention of those involved. It's just that we're human.

Junk from day one?

Have you tried to buy a fridge lately?

My father in laws Philco has been running since the 60s not missing a beat.

My house has been through three fridges in 10 years a Frigidaire and two Bosch.

So much for "sustainability" The energy to build the cabinet and taking up landfill space is worse for the environment than just putting a compressor system in it that is capable to do the work.

Energy Star mandates have ruined our appliances and the result is probably opposite what was intended.

 

[theLBC]

1980's planned obsolescence werent junk products, they were just products that were designed with a particular life span as a target

remember when 2x speed CD burners came out?
and then 4x
and then 8x...
i'm told they had the 24x speed technology the whole time.

 

[FXDWG]

When a refrigerator consisted of a compressor, condenser, and evaporator they could last as long as the materials would hold out. Features and the ability for someone to actually troubleshoot and fix the problems for a reasonable price are what killed appliance life. My washer, dryer, stove, and beer fridge are all from the 80s and bought used in 2000 and work fine because they are all easy to fix and I don't have to hire someone to do it for me. I'm on my 3rd house refrigerator in 20 years because fixing them cost at least half of what new one costs.

 

[Rthur]

Funny you mention that.
My BIL's fridge, he keeps his beer in, has been old enough to vote for at least 2 decades.
Fixed a broken door release/handle is the only repair I'm aware of.

R

 

[brianf]

A) I didn't say we could make everything for the cheapest possible cost
B) You (and many people) confuse "being competitive" with "being the cheapest". Most often they are not the same thing.
C) Dry cleaning is a service, not manufacturing

But thanks for trying

I own and manufacture in the United States

compete with other manufacturers from around the world on business bids

Currently export to 50+ countries

Import material from 15+ countries.

Have sent certain quality employees to said countries for supplier validation.

My brother who is my head sales guy has been the the far east several times on business and manufacturing technology seminars

Competitive pricing doesn’t cut it unless your talking mom and pop volumes and small ring sales orders.

No trying needed...It’s my day job

 

[brianf]

remember when 2x speed CD burners came out?
and then 4x
and then 8x...
i'm told they had the 24x speed technology the whole time.

You forgot the 16x I bought with every last cent as a kid. Lol

 

[E. Bryant]

Junk from day one?

Have you tried to buy a fridge lately?

My father in laws Philco has been running since the 60s not missing a beat.

My house has been through three fridges in 10 years a Frigidaire and two Bosch.

So much for "sustainability" The energy to build the cabinet and taking up landfill space is worse for the environment than just putting a compressor system in it that is capable to do the work.

Energy Star mandates have ruined our appliances and the result is probably opposite what was intended.

Go back, read the decade that I explicitly called out in my first sentence, and then get back with me.

My in-laws still have a 1960s GM-branded Frigidaire in the family cabin. Much of that stuff was built really damn well. They do not have any 1980s fridges at the cabin, because by that time we decided as a nation to design, build, and sell junk.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

The only brand that gets my 100% endorsement 100% of the time, is a company that has always been so slick and smooth to deal with, and there has never been a dry moment in using their products.

KY Jelly.

 

[308pirate]

I own and manufacture in the United States

compete with other manufacturers from around the world on business bids

Currently export to 50+ countries

Import material from 15+ countries.

Have sent certain quality employees to said countries for supplier validation.

My brother who is my head sales guy has been the the far east several times on business and manufacturing technology seminars

Competitive pricing doesn’t cut it unless your talking mom and pop volumes and small ring sales orders.

No trying needed...It’s my day job

No idea what you make. In what I make, value comes in more forms than just the cheapest price.

 

[brianf]

No idea what you make. In what I make, value comes in more forms than just the cheapest price.

pharma, vitamins, otc, nutritional suppliments

most companies are running the same equipment at a certain level

it comes down to payroll, efficiency, and market price

the US has to many restrictions (good or bad) and a higher wage than that part of the world

if all competing companies are buying from the same suppliers +/-, there is a limit to what can be made in the US

if the customer is doing their due diligence, and i am the same quality rank as company XYZ and they have less restrictions via government +/- shipping

im incapable competing on a equal playing field

large bids go through 2-3 "bid houses" and its a timed approach on a spreadsheet, almost like a blind auction

after the bids are awarded there is still some phone calls and hand shakes but they sales people

at the end of the day justification is needed explaining to their managers why they are choosing the second place winner on price compared to the bid winner

not many sales guys want to put their job on the line for a previous relationship etc

its just math at the end of the day

 

[pmclaine]

Go back, read the decade that I explicitly called out in my first sentence, and then get back with me.

My in-laws still have a 1960s GM-branded Frigidaire in the family cabin. Much of that stuff was built really damn well. They do not have any 1980s fridges at the cabin, because by that time we decided as a nation to design, build, and sell junk.

My intent was to agree with you.

 

[pmclaine]

pharma, vitamins, otc, nutritional suppliments

most companies are running the same equipment at a certain level

it comes down to payroll, efficiency, and market price

the US has to many restrictions (good or bad) and a higher wage than that part of the world

if all competing companies are buying from the same suppliers +/-, there is a limit to what can be made in the US

if the customer is doing their due diligence, and i am the same quality rank as company XYZ and they have less restrictions via government +/- shipping

im incapable competing on a equal playing field

large bids go through 2-3 "bid houses" and its a timed approach on a spreadsheet, almost like a blind auction

after the bids are awarded there is still some phone calls and hand shakes but they sales people

at the end of the day justification is needed explaining to their managers why they are choosing the second place winner on price compared to the bid winner

not many sales guys want to put their job on the line for a previous relationship etc

its just math at the end of the day

So we regulate fair labor and safety here but we think its okay to circumvent that and allow abusive practices overseas as long as we get cheap shit?

 

[pmclaine]

The only brand that gets my 100% endorsement 100% of the time, is a company that has always been so slick and smooth to deal with, and there has never been a dry moment in using their products.

KY Jelly.

but it makes a horrible sandwich.....worst jelly ever.