Brass Prep... A waste of time?

[SicVic]

Hello Gunners!!

I started making this video a few weeks back and then 7 days ago I smashed into a Deer while on my Motorcycle.

Now again able to use my phone (and wipe my own ars) I've managed to get editing finished up. Far from a YouTube Pro am I.

It's a long watch but the results are interesting and some may enjoy the actual comparison process.
I'm the type of reloader who fiddles with everything just because I can so the test was nothing Scientific; the results were still pretty cool.

It was not meant to be taken too seriously, a loose idea that I ran with to see how it would turn out.
Any questions with what you see I will try to answer as I obviously had to edit out tons of stuff.
Deer 1
SicVic 0

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Those are some interesting results. Enough so that it seems to support doing more comparisons to see if you can repeat the results.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

youve been putting out good videos

 

[supercorndogs]

I would not expect much difference between full prep, and FL size and shoot with 1x fired brass. 1x fired brass is usually the sweet spot. You can pretty much pick a charge weight with good components, and weighed out charges and expect single digit to low teen SDs.

 

[TheGerman]

I've noticed this over the years as well.

There would be single lots that I sped through, or didn't have some high end equipment for yet and they would give extremely good s/d and accuracy. Then there were single lots I literally spent hours on with every small detail and high end piece of equipment and they were meh.

I found a happy medium at:

annealing
sizing/expanding to a certain neck tension and shoulder (trim as necessary)
tumble
just get the primer to seat and be under the primer pocket/rim height
powder charge via auto tricker
just seat the bullet so the OAL via ogive measurement is the same

Done.

 

[Steel head]

I've noticed this over the years as well.

There would be single lots that I sped through, or didn't have some high end equipment for yet and they would give extremely good s/d and accuracy. Then there were single lots I literally spent hours on with every small detail and high end piece of equipment and they were meh.

I found a happy medium at:

annealing
sizing/expanding to a certain neck tension and shoulder (trim as necessary)
tumble
just get the primer to seat and be under the primer pocket/rim height
powder charge via auto tricker
just seat the bullet so the OAL via ogive measurement is the same

Done.

Yep
Same here.
I usually don’t even bother tumbling them.

 

[Im2bent]

So you guys are saying not to bother with weighing/separating cases by lot?

 

[TheGerman]

Yep
Same here.
I usually don’t even bother tumbling them.

Eh, I do it to get the neck lube out because when I didn't I could feel differences in seating pressure.

 

[TheGerman]

So you guys are saying not to bother with weighing/separating cases by lot?

I don't even bother. The only thing I measure individually is the bullet ogive to base length because inconsistent loaded OAL drives me nuts.

After the initial 'new brass' once over to make sure the flash holes aren't fucked up and there's nothing crazy going on, they are kept and loaded/shot as a batch. I run the Aztec on that batch on like 2 cases, record the number for them in the future and keep the brass together in that batch the entire way so to not end up with a bunch of cases that were fired different times.

 

[Steel head]

Eh, I do it to get the neck lube out because when I didn't I could feel differences in seating pressure.

I get what you’re saying.

My neck die doesn’t need any lube

 

[alamo5000]

OP earned a sub!

 

[Sniperwannabee]

I get what you’re saying.

My neck die doesn’t need any lube

im glad i came across that lee collett thread because i have been dry lubing the necks

 

[Steel head]

im glad i came across that lee collett thread because i have been dry lubing the necks

Yea
No need at all with the collet.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

insert Lee Collet master race meme

 

[proff49]

Or a "Lee privileged" meme.

 

[supercorndogs]

The Lee collet die is, OK. Probably not worth the PP stroking over.

I am back to annealing after three on new brass. I did it every firing for a while, but most of the brass I have tested had a jump in SD on the fourth firing without annealing from new.

 

[SicVic]

Those are some interesting results. Enough so that it seems to support doing more comparisons to see if you can repeat the results.

I agree and was planning on redoing the comparison again.
I feel like the non prepped Brass at some point should start fading in results.

 

[SicVic]

T

youve been putting out good videos

This comment stoked me; thank you!
I'm trying to learn the editing deal and filming with the basics.
Also trying to bring forward content that is not really mainstream.
I appreciate your post.

 

[SicVic]

I would not expect much difference between full prep, and FL size and shoot with 1x fired brass. 1x fired brass is usually the sweet spot. You can pretty much pick a charge weight with good components, and weighed out charges and expect single digit to low teen SDs.

I'll agree with you on the 1x=sweet spot.
What surprised me was that the numbers (results) were really solid from 1st, run of the mill brass 2nd, the non prepped batch was the reject cases of the 20. They had the largest weight variance and the biggest abnormalities in neck thickness.
The biggest shocker was having no development whatsoever. Never used that bullet before or even tested the charge. 4 S/D for 10 rounds counting cold bore was interesting to say the least.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Hello Gunners!!

I started making this video a few weeks back and then 7 days ago I smashed into a Deer while on my Motorcycle.


Deer 1
SicVic 0

You cant post comments like this w/o pics

 

[SicVic]

I've noticed this over the years as well.

There would be single lots that I sped through, or didn't have some high end equipment for yet and they would give extremely good s/d and accuracy. Then there were single lots I literally spent hours on with every small detail and high end piece of equipment and they were meh.

I found a happy medium at:

annealing
sizing/expanding to a certain neck tension and shoulder (trim as necessary)
tumble
just get the primer to seat and be under the primer pocket/rim height
powder charge via auto tricker
just seat the bullet so the OAL via ogive measurement is the same

Done.

I have absolutely worked some cases into submission and got nothing in return.
On the other hand; the cases I used in my last video (Case Life), I built them just about the way you listed. They're on Reloading #39 and can hit whatever you want.
Great thing about Reloading; you can Tweak however hard you wanna tweak.
Thanks for posting!

 

[SicVic]

You cant post comments like this w/o pics

Yes, I obtained more frequent flyer miles at the VA for this incident.
The term "yard sale" should be picture enough.
Good times..

 

[supercorndogs]

I'll agree with you on the 1x=sweet spot.
What surprised me was that the numbers (results) were really solid from 1st, run of the mill brass 2nd, the non prepped batch was the reject cases of the 20. They had the largest weight variance and the biggest abnormalities in neck thickness.
The biggest shocker was having no development whatsoever. Never used that bullet before or even tested the charge. 4 S/D for 10 rounds counting cold bore was interesting to say the least.

I have a thread where took a load, Starline 6mm Creedmoor brass, CCI 250, 105 Hornady HPBT I chose a charge weight out of the blue. 40.4g of h4350. SD of 4 on first firing on a new barrel. FL size tumble lube off, SD 8 on second firing 100 rounds down the barrel. 10 shot strings. I need to start shooting it more again so I can get a third with 200 down the barrel and see what the numbers look like.

While I hadn't been shooting the 6mm creed brass I put 5 fringes on some Nosler 280 brass. The SDs state din the 12-17 range for the first 3, then jumped from 12-15 to the mid 20s on the fourth firing, and back to 12-15 range after annealing for the fifth.

Annealing is kind of like trimming for me, if it doesn't need it, I don't want to do it.

 

[Steel head]

 

[spife7980]

Brass prep is never a waste of time if you do it while you would be doing nothing anyways.

 

[lash]

I'll agree with you on the 1x=sweet spot.
What surprised me was that the numbers (results) were really solid from 1st, run of the mill brass 2nd, the non prepped batch was the reject cases of the 20. They had the largest weight variance and the biggest abnormalities in neck thickness.
The biggest shocker was having no development whatsoever. Never used that bullet before or even tested the charge. 4 S/D for 10 rounds counting cold bore was interesting to say the least.

I won’t always be that easy though. Just working through load development with a friend who bought a new custom rifle after using up his factory rifle. Load development for the factory rifle was literally charge some cases and shoot. Not so easy this time around.

Point being that it isn’t always so easy, unless of course it’s 6 BR. Some barrels are a PITA to get the right load for at first.

 

[Frgood]

This post is twice gooder than most.

 

[SicVic]

Wanted to thank everyone for their thoughts and responses.
It seems that those who do the lesser amount of prep are more likely to be forthcoming whereas those who fondle one case for hours at a time tend to stay in the shadows.
Interesting...
I'm a do "bother" I guess.
I like to know what happens when I do "this" and how did the results stack up.

Lastly, I post up a photo of the Brass used in the above video.
Of the top 6 pieces, the left 3 were Full Prep and right 3 No Prep.
It's clear that the Full Prep are showing favorable signs of efficient sealing compared to the Non. (Based on Carbon Ring)
I included the Bottom 6 cases to show that it's not always a clear cut indicator though. (For new reloaders)
The left 3 are the first case fired from cold bore of a 5 round string.
Three strings fired, each from cold bore, each from the next morning or consecutive day.
Why so much Carbon on that cold bore shot? Poor Prep or development??

No, that Brass is a solid performer and has ran in the 6 1/2 SD's all throughout its 38 firings.
The poor sealing is due to some information I withheld.
It was fired at 20 degrees below zero, the rifle had been stored overnight at those temps along with the ammo.
The load had been developed during the Summer at 76 degrees.
All combined was the cause of a poor seal/burn that left the outer case resembling a neglected chimney.



SicVic out