Bullet coating-Hexagonal Boron Nitride

[Eric1977]

I have read about this procedure here and there for years. Why don't more people do this?

I keep kicking the idea around as a means of decreasing barrel wear and lengthening the life of the barrel. The process seems fairly straight forward: clean bullets and BBs go into a jar, 1tsp of HBN, tumble/vibrate 3 hours, then polish with an old towel.

What am i missing, i do not see the downside of this.

 

[SmileMaker]

I have a 6XC being built and ordered Tubb's system which doesn't use BB's. Coated 100 berger 105's with the same idea in mind.
We'll have to compare notes.

 

[zipollini]

Shoot DTAC 115 RBT bullets that already come Hbn coated

 

[Eric1977]

I have a 6XC being built and ordered Tubb's system which doesn't use BB's. Coated 100 berger 105's with the same idea in mind.
We'll have to compare notes.

I was kicking around the idea of using the Tubb kit to start out. I am not sure what procedure the kit has you do though, i seem to think he includes a wax for application after coating maybe?

 

[Brent B]

Shoot DTAC 115 RBT bullets that already come Hbn coated

What has been your experience with the coated 115s? Faster? improved accuracy at close and long range? Reduced ES/SD? Any plans to go back to non coated 115s?

 

[SmileMaker]

I was kicking around the idea of using the Tubb kit to start out. I am not sure what procedure the kit has you do though, i seem to think he includes a wax for application after coating maybe?

 

[Eric1977]

The Tubb kit keeps it simple. I really question though why more shooters do not do this, makes me feel as though there is some drawback i am not seeing.

Wonder how big of a pita it is to go from a seasoned barrel that has had coated bullets back to plain non coated.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I have read about this procedure here and there for years. Why don't more people do this?

I keep kicking the idea around as a means of decreasing barrel wear and lengthening the life of the barrel. The process seems fairly straight forward: clean bullets and BBs go into a jar, 1tsp of HBN, tumble/vibrate 3 hours, then polish with an old towel.

What am i missing, i do not see the downside of this.

That's way too much. I think I used 7 grains of hBN to coat 100 105 VLD and even that was too much. No BB's either, just the bullets in a peanut butter jar tossed in the tumbler for 45 minutes.

No cold bore and loads way over pressure showed no pressure signs.

 

[tlsmith22]

I think Broz over at LongRangeOnly has a review on this stuff. He seems to like it pretty well, seems I do recall him saying you lose just a little bit of velocity. He goes through the whole procedure in a video.

 

[Eric1977]

Yea I just watched his video, it was a real good run through of the process. One I will likely mimic.

What I am getting from the amount of information I have watched or been able to find and read is;

Advantages:
Easier to clean barrels due to less carbon/CU fouling
Longer between barrel cleanings
Possible longer barrel life-everyone discusses it, but no one has proof
Lower ES & SD

Disadvantages:
Extra time/cost to add to the process, though not difficult

 

[missed]

Going back to uncoated is a pain initially.

You have to scrub your barrel, getting a load worked back up, initially they will be slow and speed up, or they will be over pressure.

I really liked the cold bore shot repeatability.

I ran coated, then went back to uncoated. I'm working back to coated bullets. I do like how clean the barrel seems to stay with coated bullets. I would run a wet plug, then a couple dry ones and leave it there.

I use the Tubb kit also,

 

[Eric1977]

Does anyone know what the long term storage effects are of HBN in a barrel? I do not get to shoot as much as I like, often the heat of the summer I do not shoot at all. So that means my rifles sit for 5 months maybe. Heck there has been some years I have not shot at all but maybe once or twice.

Will it protect the barrel just as a swab of oil in the barrel?

 

[missed]

From my readings it's not going to protect the barrel. It's not detremental or hydroscopic like moly can be. I would still run a patch with some oil on it down the bore for storage. My 308 barrel had a load worked up a year and half ago and I haven't touched it since. It's clean and shiney just like when I put it in the safe.

 

[Brent B]

I am purchasing the Tubb kit today. What's $45 farther down the rabbit hole? If it helps cold bore and lowers ES/SD it will be worth it. Now to put the tumbler to work.

 

[Eric1977]

I have been looking at the Tubb kit, but have also since came across THIS kit as mentioned on LRO's Jeff Brozovich's video HERE. Seems that maybe you might get a little more hBN vs the Tubb kit. Either kit will do a whole lot of rounds though.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I am purchasing the Tubb kit today. What's $45 farther down the rabbit hole? If it helps cold bore and lowers ES/SD it will be worth it. Now to put the tumbler to work.

Where was it said coated bullets lower es&sd numbers. I find that hard to believe.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Just buy a jar of it for $20 from any one of a dozen internet vendors. An ounce or two is probably a lifetime supply. A film canister full is enough to coat more than 2k bullets.

 

[Brent B]

Where was it said coated bullets lower es&sd numbers. I find that hard to believe.

I thought tub said it. maybe I am mistaken? I listened to the above video and I think he was only talking about the first and second shot having lower ES/SD.

 

[Eric1977]

Where was it said coated bullets lower es&sd numbers. I find that hard to believe.

Tubb in his video HERE discusses (~2min mark) how his first cold bore shot on a dirty barrel goes into the group. Versus Moly which in his experience the first shot was always low. He also discusses how velocity was more consistent across a shot group, which maybe I am wrong, would improve SD. Cold bore or dirty bore, his velocities were more consistent.

I also read quite a bit of past posts by Jeff B over on Long Range Only & who also clearly states in his video and on the forum (post 43 for ex) (among other users) that their ES and SD improved. I also had read this same result in an article on boron testing over on Long Range Shooters of Utah HERE.

 

[Brent B]

Tubb in his video HERE discusses (~2min mark) how his first cold bore shot on a dirty barrel goes into the group. Versus Moly which in his experience the first shot was always low. He also discusses how velocity was more consistent across a shot group, which maybe I am wrong, would improve SD. Cold bore or dirty bore, his velocities were more consistent.

I also read quite a bit of past posts by Jeff B over on Long Range Only & who also clearly states in his video and on the forum (post 43 for ex) (among other users) that their ES and SD improved. I also had read this same result in an article on boron testing over on Long Range Shooters of Utah HERE.

You have clearly done your research. What damage could a little white powder do? It's worth a try to me. Another use for Boron Nitride is that it can be mixed with some paints to decrease friction between parts.

 

[Brent B]

Just buy a jar of it for $20 from any one of a dozen internet vendors. An ounce or two is probably a lifetime supply. A film canister full is enough to coat more than 2k bullets.

Thanks. You saved me $25.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Thanks. You saved me $25.

Make sure you buy the correct grind or whatever they call the grain size. You want the super fine stuff. .5 micron.

 

[Brent B]

Make sure you buy the correct grind or whatever they call the grain size. You want the super fine stuff. .5 micron.

0.5 micron it is

 

[Eric1977]

What damage could a little white powder do?

LOL

 

[Milo 2.5]

Tubb in his video HERE discusses (~2min mark) how his first cold bore shot on a dirty barrel goes into the group. Versus Moly which in his experience the first shot was always low. He also discusses how velocity was more consistent across a shot group, which maybe I am wrong, would improve SD. Cold bore or dirty bore, his velocities were more consistent.

I also read quite a bit of past posts by Jeff B over on Long Range Only & who also clearly states in his video and on the forum (post 43 for ex) (among other users) that their ES and SD improved. I also had read this same result in an article on boron testing over on Long Range Shooters of Utah HERE.

It may be, today though so many attribute one instance to normal. Plenty of guys shooting naked bullets with tight numbers also.

 

[Eric1977]

It may be, today though so many attribute one instance to normal. Plenty of guys shooting naked bullets with tight numbers also.

I agree and I guess that is where my hang up is... if it is so great, why isn't everyone doing it? Clearly there are a number of people who have recorded and seen positive results. I believe Jeff Brozovich began hBN because he was trying to find a way to inhibit or prevent case necks from sticking to the bullet after long term storage (5 months plus). So it seems he and several on that site tried hBN for various reasons and stumbled upon several positives. It seems Tubb just got tired of the mess moly makes and the acidic issues it has with humidity and he also found something that serves a better purpose.

Part of me wonders if more people do not use hBN because they hear the words "bullet coating" and think back to the moly craze and immediately stop listening. I know I have done that. I don't want to deal with moly or anything remotely similar to moly. BUT what does attract my attention to hBN is that those that have used it and put some time into it see A) more consistent cold bore and dirty bore shots that fall within the group, and B) perhaps my largest interest, less Cu fouling and thus longer periods between cleanings and cleanups that are less labor-some.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I agree and I guess that is where my hang up is... if it is so great, why isn't everyone doing it? Clearly there are a number of people who have recorded and seen positive results. I believe Jeff Brozovich began hBN because he was trying to find a way to inhibit or prevent case necks from sticking to the bullet after long term storage (5 months plus). So it seems he and several on that site tried hBN for various reasons and stumbled upon several positives. It seems Tubb just got tired of the mess moly makes and the acidic issues it has with humidity and he also found something that serves a better purpose.

Part of me wonders if more people do not use hBN because they hear the words "bullet coating" and think back to the moly craze and immediately stop listening. I know I have done that. I don't want to deal with moly or anything remotely similar to moly. BUT what does attract my attention to hBN is that those that have used it and put some time into it see A) more consistent cold bore and dirty bore shots that fall within the group, and B) perhaps my largest interest, less Cu fouling and thus longer periods between cleanings and cleanups that are less labor-some.

You make valid points, I have used moly<like, and Tubb's coated dtacs< really liked, though dirty. I tried the hbn game on my own, small batches, which in my case was a mistake, the cleaning excess process needs to be the same each time, which I did not do, big train wreck. I shoot naked today, I really do not have to cold bore anything, and if I did, the target I'm envisioning is big enough I wont miss.

 

[Gibble888]

Works great. I have been using hbn for 6 years or more when i first heard about it and i cannot find a reason to NOT use it if you are concerned about consistency and cleaner barrels. My Shilen Barreled Savage 300wm has no copper after 75 rounds last time i checked and i do not expect it anytime soon.
From my 222 rem to my 458 socom.
Do NOT use too much powder when coating as it can mess things up.

 

[Eric1977]

@Milo 2.5 I have not ran across many that have discussed the removal of excess and how precise it must be. Literally most everything I have seen has revolved around separating the bullets and polishing them as a group in a couple towels. Obviously you would not want any large clumps or specs. In most every case I read the users also stated that they pretreat their bores with 90% or greater alcohol and some hBN. Otherwise the consensus I have read several places is that it could take 15-20 rounds to fire coat the bore. AND, like moly, they all state that the bore has to be pristine clean prior. I can see how that is huge with moly, but I have my doubts about how important it is with hBN.

 

[Conrad]

I’ll play devils advocate here and also repeat the comment on all the shooters with great ES/SD shooting naked bullets. I think other practices matter more.

That said I’ve coated for 12 years. Moly, hBN, and WS2. I think moly mostly got a bad rap from people also wax coating. That just doesn’t add up to me given that you’re adding more carbon to the system with wax. I didn’t coat with moly long as I was an early adopter of hBN.

hBN is pretty good stuff. I did shoot hundreds of rounds without cleaning, 400-500 rounds of 6xc. I do think it allowed me to get over 2000 rounds on 6xc barrels too. However I also had my frustrations with it too. Sometimes I could get it to coat great, and sometimes I was retumbling batches. I cleaned and dried bullets in the oven, heated them etc. Different weight bullets took different durations of tumbling as would be expected. However, sometimes this could beat up meplats. Rotary tumbling definitely does, vibratory, not as much. Finally, there were batches I found some insane neck gripping phenomena going on. I don’t know if the coating was too thick or what but the bullets were slick and dull like you’d want. I randomly needed to pull a round and the amount of force to get it out was very high. I tested back and forth with a naked bullet and it was easily pulled, hBN very hard and left striations in the jacket. Probably user error on my part on that particular application in some kind of way but it was another head scratcher. I do wonder about humidity affecting hBN coating process.

I finally quit hBN and went to the wet method. First moly briefly and then with tungsten disulfide. Wet method is super clean and will give a very nice even finish. You can also continue to reuse the water for many batches up until a point I think some contamination starts to take place and it’s best to start fresh again. This has been the best way to coat for me however tumbling still can round meplats a bit. That said vertical is still good at 1000. I believe the wet method is actually etching the moly or WS2 into the jacket a bit. It is much harder to rub off than regular coating methods. The sulfide technically should be converting to a sulfate which is a harder compound. So again I have to wonder if it’s really worth it.

At this point in time I’m kind of over coating bullets particularly when I read of people getting good ES/SD and not cleaning for 200-300 rounds. I have coated bullets that I’ll use up in one barrel but I have a new barrel that I’m just going to shoot uncoated in. I can always go back to coating but life is pretty busy these days and it’s just more steps and variables in my process. My one concern is naked bullets bonding to necks over time. That may be a very real benefit of coating. If you are shooting 6mm your best bet is to just buy coated from David as he has the big vibrating vats that seem to provide consistent results.

 

[Eric1977]

Very interesting read there @Conrad And you have some good points to consider there. I am not familiar with a wet method of coating at all, and obviously all I know on hBN is what I have read for a few years on and off. It is hard to imagine that a coating so thin and so slippery like hBN would increase neck tension as you experienced. But that is a real concern for a lot of reasons, especially pressure. Above I mentioned why it peaked my interest, and I left out one aspect that I have a large interest in besides the cleaning part. Barrel life. Good smiths around are are very few, maybe nill if you want to be anal about junk. I generally keep my rifles for life unless a issue arises in life. So it is not easy for me to go just get one rebarreled. When I need my 300 redone I imagine I will be shipping it off which doesn't trill me either (not sure what most do in my situation anyhow). Sooo.... if I can lengthen barrel life then I am listening. You alluded to the thought that maybe hBN allowed you to have a longer barrel life in your 6xc. and that grabs my attention. Several has said that it might be possible hBN adds to barrel life, but no one has any real data to put to it that I have seen. The speculation is its heat insulating properties and lube across the throat might help more than anything. If I did this, it would not be on any real barrel burners, a 308 and a 6.5cm.

 

[Conrad]

It was a strange incident a few years ago that I had with those bullets pulling so hard. I have some bullets still coated in hBN that I’ll run a test on again.

I’m not knocking hBN persay, the benefits are there, just realize you’re introducing another variable, plus variables in the coating process that will have to be managed. Hopefully it goes great. I’ve just coated enough to have experienced some different headaches at times.

I think it does lube and protect the throat from heat and may add 300-500 rounds of life depending on how the rifle is shot.

You can google wet moly method and posts will come up on accurateshooter.com