Rifle Scopes Burris XTR3!!!

#603
If the glass is as crappy as the II I will stick with my razor. I started the season with a XTR II 5x25 and at the first match had a problem seeing targets. I asked my son if he could see the targets clear at 1000 with his Vortex amg he said he could see the hits. Maybe I had a bad one but there’s just to many options to out there I stick with vortex and Nightforce
 
#604
bschneiderheinze said:
If the glass is as crappy as the II I will stick with my razor. I started the season with a XTR II 5x25 and at the first match had a problem seeing targets. I asked my son if he could see the targets clear at 1000 with his Vortex amg he said he could see the hits. Maybe I had a bad one but there’s just to many options to out there I stick with vortex and Nightforce
Click to expand...

XTR III has noticably better image quality.

Ilya
 
#605
It would have to be four times better the XTR II I had didn’t even compare to my current Razor 7c. I realize there not in the same price range but there close. I would also say the Argos BTR I just purchased on sale has considerably better glass. Like I said it seems like a lot of people like them so maybe I had a bad one or maybe they haven’t looked through good glass.
 
#607
bschneiderheinze said:
It would have to be four times better the XTR II I had didn’t even compare to my current Razor 7c. I realize there not in the same price range but there close. I would also say the Argos BTR I just purchased on sale has considerably better glass. Like I said it seems like a lot of people like them so maybe I had a bad one or maybe they haven’t looked through good glass.
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I think you had a bad one. Maybe one of the earlier ones. I have an ares btr and it's not as clear as my xtr 2
 
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#608
Could be I’m not trying to bash Burris I’ve had some good clear hunting scopes from them but I won’t buy another match scope from them. I think I have only seen one or two at all the matches I’ve been at Vortex and Khales dominate. I might look through someone’s Burris III someday and be suprised.
 
#609
bschneiderheinze said:
Could be I’m not trying to bash Burris I’ve had some good clear hunting scopes from them but I won’t buy another match scope from them. I think I have only seen one or two at all the matches I’ve been at Vortex and Khales dominate. I might look through someone’s Burris III someday and be suprised.
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I think you will see this change a little. Although it will be a slow process as people will take a long time to except Burris can make scope to compete at the pointy end of prs. I'm happily selling my gen 2 razor to use an xtr 3
 
#610
I liked everything else about the scope. The turrets were good it had my favorite zero stop. I hate zeroing Vortex. Some might prefer the Christmas tree recticle of the 7c but I rarely use it. I guess if the glass is better you might see one on one of my 5 PRS rifles one day. I haven’t heard much about there customer service Vortex has the best in the business and I can say I lost a Nightforce scope screw and they fed ex next day me a whole set.
 
#611
I've been running XTR II's in PRS for five years now. I've not had one single target I couldn't see. And yes, there have been plenty of targets that were damn hard to see for everyone. And damn hard to spot and shoot. I've had just as many of those early morning shaded targets, the sun coming up right in your face, or shot up greyed out plates blending into the hillside as everyone else. And I shoot out west where a grey plate in rocks and sagebrush is as camouflaged as as a target can get. But I've always been able to find it and hit it.

I ran the 5-25 the first couple years. Then switched to the 4-20 H591 when they came out. I would put the glass in my two 4-20's up against in any scope in their price point.

So if someone cant see a plate to hit it at a PRS match, something isnt right.
 
#613
bschneiderheinze said:
Guess I should have sent it in because I couldn’t see plates at 400 yards
Click to expand...

Definitely not right.

If you look around at matches you will see quite a few people using this scope. Burris has sold a ton of these. And I've spent years asking everyone I see using one what they thought. The very large majority of people really like the scope, recognizing of course that's it's not a top of the line optic, but appreciating its solid performance at it's price point. No one I ever spoke to said it wasnt up to the task.

The XTR II isnt 2k glass, but its plenty good for anything you will see in PRS. This is a video of me cleaning a KYL at 280 yards, then going for the optional "long" KYL at 460 yards worth 2 points per impact. I missed the first big plate due to wind, but corrected and hit the 8", 6", 4", and 2" plate. Pretty small target at that distance.

 
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#614
I’m not arguing with you I’m just stating what I see. I will guarantee out of 70 people in a MO match you might see one. I personally know another guy that considered the NF SHV 14 power a step up because of glass guailty. Maybe the airs clearer where you shoot but Vortex and Khales are staples here.
 
#615
bschneiderheinze said:
Guess I should have sent it in because I couldn’t see plates at 400 yards
Click to expand...
I'd say so. You may have had one of the earlier ones that the glass was terrible. I shot a guys rifle who was having trouble at my first prs match. It turned out his rings were loose and I shot about 30 rounds to figure that out and then zero it. The glass was so bad that I had to get him to spot using my rifle because I couldn't see the bullet holes at 100 meters. I became the biggest Burris basher ever after that. 6 months later after having 3 scopes fail on me Burris gave me an xtr 2 to try. The glass was light and day different. I'm still using that scope 12 months. They aren't a top tier scope but to me they are more rugged than anything else in the price range and the glass and turrets are equal to similar price scopes
 
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#616
I don't know what price range there in I paid $900 for mine and more than twice that for my vortex and Nightforce scopes. When your on the clock I guarantee you will be able to tell the difference between a Vortex Razor Gen II and a Burris just because of the the clarity and field of view. I can turn mine up to 20 power without a problem on stages with multiple targets because it has a wider field of view and it's easier to see the targets but you get what you pay for.
 
#617
@bschneiderheinze Your not wrong. The first gen XTRII’s has terrible glass. I had one of the very first 8-40’s and I couldn’t see my holes at 300yrds the glass was so ‘dirty’.
Sold it right away and bought a 5-25 thinking it would be much better. It was just as bad.
I haven’t even touched one since, so I have no idea if they improved.
I’m excited about the III, but I think pricepoint is an issue for me. Non Illuminated for $2k. I can think of half a dozen other scopes I’d try first for that price.
I will wait till they actually drop to form a complete opinion on the 3, but I just don’t see this scope running rings around a Vortex G2 Razor. My 2c
 
#618
Jeezo I walk away for 5 min and the haters come out. LOL.

Its been spelled out pretty well the shortcomings of the first XTRII that were released (spotty glass and 8 mil knobs). This thread IS NOT for that purpose. There are literally a dozen other threads hashing that out.

Its also been pretty well hashed out the newer ones are very impressive. I mean how else could I have got a top 5 in a PRS match with over 120 people (day 2 in rainy snowy conditions as well), shooting a 308 none the less!! lol (first and only top 5 ever with a 308 btw in any major major open match...yes that's an XTR2

2018 JC STEEL PRS.jpg



Stay on topic fellas!

BUT that being said, I love when people forget price pt. The XTR2 are what, $900 now? Comparing to a $2500 Kahles or NF? Really? lol stop it. That's a joke. Noone ever said the XTR2 glass was top tier. (even tho I trust the XTR2 mechanics more than the Kahles by a long shot but I digress)

Pertaining to the XTR3, no one said, again, that the XTR3 will run circles around any scope (other than maybe the XTR2 lol) There are not any production models in the wild yet. Eagerly awaiting the review from Koshkin for sure.

My prototype...everyone who has looked through it has been impressed...

Ive used it in 5 matches and 2 8-man team matches...

PRS Finale -- Tac Class - 1st overall
GA Bushnell Elite - 1st Division and 1st overall
OK 8-man team match - 4th
Karstetter Memorial - 4th
WA 8 man team match - 1st
S3 - 6th (this is the only match I want a do over. we were on a stage when the snow came in and it was a blind stage we had to range targets and the RF would not range. so we asked RO's the size of the targets so we could retc range and they didn't know. Regardless to say it was our low score of the match. dang dang.)
Warhorse - 2nd

So its been pretty solid... I think the peanut gallery will be impressed. I sure am. a peanut I mean. lol.

CS 31019.JPG





Regards,
DT
 
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#619
I think it's because when people just mention the XTRII, it opens up a wound that just won't heal. LOL! I still cringe when I look through my Gen 1 XTRII (it's currently a $900 paper weight on my home office desk). I do hope the III's are all that they are rumored to be...
 
#620
MarinePMI said:
I think it's because when people just mention the XTRII, it opens up a wound that just won't heal. LOL! I still cringe when I look through my Gen 1 XTRII (it's currently a $900 paper weight on my home office desk). I do hope the III's are all that they are rumored to be...
Click to expand...


Yes sir good pt. I feel you. Other than 1 thing. Don't wallow in it, do what many here have done and return it. I would be shocked if you don't get a new one. GL mister. The forever warranty means forever and for anything.

People rave about the Vortex warrenty but wont take advantage of the Burris one? Come on now...

Regards,
DT
 
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#621
D_TROS said:
Yes sir good pt. I feel you. Other than 1 thing. Don't wallow in it, do what many here have done and return it. I would be shocked if you don't get a new one. GL mister. The forever warranty means forever and for anything.

People rave about the Vortex warrenty but wont take advantage of the Burris one? Come on now...

Regards,
DT
Click to expand...

Funny you mentioned that, I just filed a case with their CS to inquire about that after commenting on this thread (i.e. I finally got off my ass and submitted the request; though honestly I'm not bitter about it, and is probably why I have waited so long to do this). It will be interesting to see the difference.

Back on topic...whats the latest release date projected for the III's?
 
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#623
I don't see the XTR3's being close to $2000.

I'm betting if a person searched around, the 3.3-18x will be around $1,407 with SCR2 mil, and, $1,336.91 for the SCR mil...
And the 5.5-30x I am guessing will be like $1,487.19 for the SCR2 mil and maybe around $1,447.10 for the SCR mil.
All non-illuminated versions.

Speculation aside, I guess we'll just have to wait and see though.
 
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#626
bschneiderheinze said:
I don't know what price range there in I paid $900 for mine and more than twice that for my vortex and Nightforce scopes. When your on the clock I guarantee you will be able to tell the difference between a Vortex Razor Gen II and a Burris just because of the the clarity and field of view. I can turn mine up to 20 power without a problem on stages with multiple targets because it has a wider field of view and it's easier to see the targets but you get what you pay for.
Click to expand...
And this is the exact reason my gen 2 razor is up for sale and I will be using a xtr 3 because the field of view is better on the xtr3
 
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#628
Wormydog1724 said:
I don't see the XTR3's being close to $2000.

I'm betting if a person searched around, the 3.3-18x will be around $1,407 with SCR2 mil, and, $1,336.91 for the SCR mil...
And the 5.5-30x I am guessing will be like $1,487.19 for the SCR2 mil and maybe around $1,447.10 for the SCR mil.
All non-illuminated versions.

Speculation aside, I guess we'll just have to wait and see though.
Click to expand...
Those are awfully specific estimates ;)
 
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#629
Wormydog1724 said:
I don't see the XTR3's being close to $2000.

I'm betting if a person searched around, the 3.3-18x will be around $1,407 with SCR2 mil, and, $1,336.91 for the SCR mil...
And the 5.5-30x I am guessing will be like $1,487.19 for the SCR2 mil and maybe around $1,447.10 for the SCR mil.
All non-illuminated versions.

Speculation aside, I guess we'll just have to wait and see though.
Click to expand...

Haha, I like it..

It will be a long line if they come in at that pricing.
 
#630
With brand new Gen 2s around $1700 and the new NX8s coming in under $2000 there is plenty of competition to go around. Interested to see how the XTR3 compares in performance and price.
 
#631
Since this very forum had people saying (or lying) that the XTR II glass was good when it was first released, I bought one sight unseen. A co-worker at my department also bought one sight unseen months later. Both had glass almost as good as a 3x9 Tasco... but not quite up to that Tasco standard.

The term "chromatic aberration" is now a running joke at the PD because everyone heard it so much. While the mechanics were decent, the fact Burris did not recall 100% of their obviously defective optical lenses killed them as a viable option. They were supposed to use an apochromatic lens system to stop CA. I dont know if they were too cheap to buy decent flint glass or if that was a lie but it was obvious that the CA was exta bad in all their 5-25×50 scopes. If your particular XTR III scope has "better glass" i am convinced it is likely because you are an insider and they hand picked one that randomly sucked the least out of a pile of others with horrible glass to get you to fool people into buying a Burris. That is what happened last time... preproduction units were used to garner good press, then Burris dropped their dumpster fire of lenses on the public.

In my mind, no Burris can EVER be trusted, sight unseen. You can only buy if you have an in store model to look through and check for yourself. The PST Gen2 crushes the optics of the Burris XTR2 at a similar price. Production XTR3 can be expected to be just as bad oprically, because that is the LEGACY which Burris created, since they were fine with foisting the XTRII on the shooting public as their top scope with reasonable optical quality. In fact, that should be the company motto/tag line from here on out.

"Burris... exceedingly poor optical quality, redefining the standards of chromatic aberration."

or

"Burris optics... never forget."
 
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#636
Wormydog1724 said:
Sir, the flogging of a deceased equine is a futile endeavor. Proceed with whence you are presently doing however register arguments of such unconnectedness have been discussed hitherto before and shall be deemed unnecessary to rehash anew. Good day.
Click to expand...

You have to read this with a Monty Python accent to appreciate it best..
 
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#637
Competition Dynamics Steel Safari this weekend...I cant say how impressed I am with the FOV and finding hidden targets under time duress.

IMG_3052.jpg



Field style match. Blind stages. Find. Range. Build position. Figure wind. Shoot. All by yourself. True test of marksmanship. By far the best match of the year. 3 days. 3 different field courses with 8-9 stages per area. Ea stage has 6 targets to engage in 5 min.


Regards,
DT
 
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#639
Well, my XTR II just went to the post office this morning, and back to Greeley. I guess we'll see what comes back. Either way, it's a lesson learned. No bitterness, and a little bit wiser about first run production issues. Shrug...can't really blame Burris; stuff happens, and the price tag wasn't one that compares to a Gen II Razor at the time. Add to this that the thing tracks like a tank, and if it turns out that I get the same scope back with a "meets specs", then I'll just chalk it up to an expensive lesson learned.

Life's too short to keep beating this dead horse. As someone that has a first run XTR II, I'll say; most just need to get over it and move on. I had already written this scope off, but was encouraged to send it back in for a check. Whatever comes back, I'll live with. It can always be used as a loaner for a new shooter, since I know they track well.
 
#640
D_TROS said:
Competition Dynamics Steel Safari this weekend...I cant say how impressed I am with the FOV and finding hidden targets under time duress.

View attachment 7093460


Field style match. Blind stages. Find. Range. Build position. Figure wind. Shoot. All by yourself. True test of marksmanship. By far the best match of the year. 3 days. 3 different field courses with 8-9 stages per area. Ea stage has 6 targets to engage in 5 min.


Regards,
DT
Click to expand...


Great shooting Dorgan!

You're kicking ass again this year..
 
#641
So, anyone know why they aren't offering the XTR III with the H-591 (H-59), or even the MilDot? The Burris website only shows the new scopes being available with the SCR based reticles, which I am not a fan of.
 
#642
MarinePMI said:
Well, my XTR II just went to the post office this morning, and back to Greeley. I guess we'll see what comes back. Either way, it's a lesson learned. No bitterness, and a little bit wiser about first run production issues. Shrug...can't really blame Burris; stuff happens, and the price tag wasn't one that compares to a Gen II Razor at the time. Add to this that the thing tracks like a tank, and if it turns out that I get the same scope back with a "meets specs", then I'll just chalk it up to an expensive lesson learned.

Life's too short to keep beating this dead horse. As someone that has a first run XTR II, I'll say; most just need to get over it and move on. I had already written this scope off, but was encouraged to send it back in for a check. Whatever comes back, I'll live with. It can always be used as a loaner for a new shooter, since I know they track well.
Click to expand...

PM sent..
 
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#644
MarinePMI said:
Well, my XTR II just went to the post office this morning, and back to Greeley. I guess we'll see what comes back. Either way, it's a lesson learned. No bitterness, and a little bit wiser about first run production issues. Shrug...can't really blame Burris; stuff happens, and the price tag wasn't one that compares to a Gen II Razor at the time. Add to this that the thing tracks like a tank, and if it turns out that I get the same scope back with a "meets specs", then I'll just chalk it up to an expensive lesson learned.

Life's too short to keep beating this dead horse. As someone that has a first run XTR II, I'll say; most just need to get over it and move on. I had already written this scope off, but was encouraged to send it back in for a check. Whatever comes back, I'll live with. It can always be used as a loaner for a new shooter, since I know they track well.
Click to expand...

Curious to see how the warranty turnaround time works for you. My scope has been with them a little over a month now
 
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#645
Alpine 338 said:
So, anyone know why they aren't offering the XTR III with the H-591 (H-59), or even the MilDot? The Burris website only shows the new scopes being available with the SCR based reticles, which I am not a fan of.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard their plans on reticle offerings, so it's possible we may see more reticles available down the road. I wouldn't hang my hat on the G2B, but I would think the H591 is a possibility. For now, the SCR is the Burris/Steiner patented reticle, so they are running with it.

My personal opinion on the matter is that with the SCR2, the H591 becomes a bit obsolete. The SCR2 has all the best properties of the H591 with none of the unnecessary clutter such as the flash mil ladders and and moving target lead subtensions numbered across the horizontal crosshair. I've been using the 4-20 H591 on my competition rifles ever since it released 3 years or so ago. Some of that clutter has definitely been noticeable from time to time.

Burris has acquired a brand new state of the art machine to etch their glass. It's going to allow for a very crisp reticle with excellent detail. So the reticles are going to look very good. Comparing the SCR2 to the Horus, the hold under on the SCR2 is far more useable and better detailed with .2 subtensions. The lines are also open on the grid of the SCR2, which helps spotting splash. The center floating crosshair is fine and small, so very useable like the H591 dot. The SCR2 has an excellent new design for mil'ing for range with .1 subtensions at different lengths. And last but not least, the SCR2 is patented and owned by Burris. They dont owe any money to Horus for using it, thus allowing them to keep costs down. The H591 is the most expensive XTRII in the lineup.

So those are my thoughts. I know reticles are a very personal thing, but I'm really excited to use the SCR2 in PRS versus my Horus.
 
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#646
D_TROS said:
Jeezo I walk away for 5 min and the haters come out. LOL.

Its been spelled out pretty well the shortcomings of the first XTRII that were released (spotty glass and 8 mil knobs). This thread IS NOT for that purpose. There are literally a dozen other threads hashing that out.

Its also been pretty well hashed out the newer ones are very impressive. I mean how else could I have got a top 5 in a PRS match with over 120 people (day 2 in rainy snowy conditions as well), shooting a 308 none the less!! lol (first and only top 5 ever with a 308 btw in any major major open match...yes that's an XTR2

View attachment 7088751


Stay on topic fellas!

BUT that being said, I love when people forget price pt. The XTR2 are what, $900 now? Comparing to a $2500 Kahles or NF? Really? lol stop it. That's a joke. Noone ever said the XTR2 glass was top tier. (even tho I trust the XTR2 mechanics more than the Kahles by a long shot but I digress)

Pertaining to the XTR3, no one said, again, that the XTR3 will run circles around any scope (other than maybe the XTR2 lol) There are not any production models in the wild yet. Eagerly awaiting the review from Koshkin for sure.

My prototype...everyone who has looked through it has been impressed...

Ive used it in 5 matches and 2 8-man team matches...

PRS Finale -- Tac Class - 1st overall
GA Bushnell Elite - 1st Division and 1st overall
OK 8-man team match - 4th
Karstetter Memorial - 4th
WA 8 man team match - 1st
S3 - 6th (this is the only match I want a do over. we were on a stage when the snow came in and it was a blind stage we had to range targets and the RF would not range. so we asked RO's the size of the targets so we could retc range and they didn't know. Regardless to say it was our low score of the match. dang dang.)
Warhorse - 2nd

So its been pretty solid... I think the peanut gallery will be impressed. I sure am. a peanut I mean. lol.

View attachment 7088752




Regards,
DT
Click to expand...
Ok so the 8mil turrets are how I distinguish the first run XTR II's? I just ventured in here having long since purchased my 5-25 and I love it. About to buy a 4-20 for another rifle.....it's used.....will it have 8mil as well? If not I'd be grateful if you could let me know any other distinguishing specs. Thanks!
 
#647
8pointer said:
Ok so the 8mil turrets are how I distinguish the first run XTR II's? I just ventured in here having long since purchased my 5-25 and I love it. About to buy a 4-20 for another rifle.....it's used.....will it have 8mil as well? If not I'd be grateful if you could let me know any other distinguishing specs. Thanks!
Click to expand...
The box is just a little different and the labelling on the scope is just slightly different.

I got a 3-15 g2B as my first XTR2, and it was a fantastic scope, SUPER good glass. The second one also a 3-15 g2B I got was at a retail store and it was obviously one of the first ones after they went to a 10MIL per rev, and the glass wasn't too great. It came in a little different looking box than the first and the graphics on the scope were just slightly different, The turrets felt the same, but it was just a bit dimmer. The glass wasn't NEARLY as bad as some of the stories I have heard on here and not bad enough that I would consider sending it back. I have used it on a rifle to shoot out to 800 yard steel and could see the target clear enough to count the impacts from a 6.5 Creedmoor.
I have since got a 4-20 and a 5-25 XTR2 and they both have glass that is pretty good. Better than my second one, but not as good as my first. Just from my experience, it looks like there is a pretty wide range of glass quality that you can expect and the newer ones seem to be a lot better.
I am looking forward to the XTR3, but I probably won't get one for a couple years. I just spent too much on scopes over the last 12 months and need to curb the spending. I will be anxiously monitoring the comments though!
 
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#648
want2ride said:
The box is just a little different and the labelling on the scope is just slightly different.

I got a 3-15 g2B as my first XTR2, and it was a fantastic scope, SUPER good glass. The second one also a 3-15 g2B I got was at a retail store and it was obviously one of the first ones after they went to a 10MIL per rev, and the glass wasn't too great. It came in a little different looking box than the first and the graphics on the scope were just slightly different, The turrets felt the same, but it was just a bit dimmer. The glass wasn't NEARLY as bad as some of the stories I have heard on here and not bad enough that I would consider sending it back. I have used it on a rifle to shoot out to 800 yard steel and could see the target clear enough to count the impacts from a 6.5 Creedmoor.
I have since got a 4-20 and a 5-25 XTR2 and they both have glass that is pretty good. Better than my second one, but not as good as my first. Just from my experience, it looks like there is a pretty wide range of glass quality that you can expect and the newer ones seem to be a lot better.
I am looking forward to the XTR3, but I probably won't get one for a couple years. I just spent too much on scopes over the last 12 months and need to curb the spending. I will be anxiously monitoring the comments though!
Click to expand...
Ok great thank you. I went with the SCR-mil the Christmas tree reticles are not my fav tried the Tremor on buddies ATACR just too much going on for my preference. The deals on the 4-20 are pretty amazing right now glad you are liking yours I will take your info forward and be sure... fortunately I can put eyes on this one I'm looking at to make sure it's a 'good one'.
 
#649
A quick and easy method for separating the early released XTR2 versus the revised version after the Steiner acquisition is the tungsten metal ring on the ocular bell housing.

Old models dont have it, newer ones do.
 
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