Rifle Scopes Burris XTR3!!!
- Thread starter D_TROS
- Start date
I honestly dont think the NX8 release matters much. They are going to be sharing the market regardless of who hits the shelves first. And I seriously doubt anyone will have trouble moving the XTR3 if it's a quality optic.
Some folks will go with the one they like best. Lots of people will buy the Nightforce just because it says Nightforce on the side. The scope market has plenty of room for a good solid scope to sell well.
Some folks will go with the one they like best. Lots of people will buy the Nightforce just because it says Nightforce on the side. The scope market has plenty of room for a good solid scope to sell well.
I think initially they are going to take a big hit because of it. Talking to people in the prs community. There were quiet a few people talking about getting a xtr3 now those same people are talking about getting an nx8. They will loose the sales that they had because it's the new kid on the block
But you aren't factoring in the people who sell the NX8's to buy the XTR III's when they do come out.
Seriously, I just don't see the NF competing at the same level as the XTR III just because they are close to the same price point, the XTR III is a 5.5x mag range while the NX8 is an 8x mag range - there are just too many compromises to make for NF to build an 8x mag range scope and sell at the $2k price point, my guess is that many early adopters will realize these limitations soon enough. But as you mentioned, Birddog, the fact that it says NF will probably be enough to keep those scopes hot on the market even if the XTR III is better. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the NX8 will be worthless, I'm just saying at its price point there are some compromises that had to be made and I think those compromises will be more than what we see in the XTR III. If I'm wrong and the NX8 turns out to punch way above its class optically then kudo's to NF, but I will reserve that judgement until they get into unbiased hands for a competent review. For those who might be wondering "what compromises", here is just a few of what an 8x erector tends to have:
- More finicky eyebox (less forgiving)
- Shallow DOF
- you have to make more parallax adjustments
Back to the XTR III, I find it interesting that Burris is actually using a 7x erector in their design, but only using 5.5x mag range out of that, it could be to cut costs but they've also managed to provide a very impressive FOV for both the 3.3-18 and 5.5-30 and FOV matters more than magnification for me - I'll take a 6x scope that has greater FOV than a 5x almost any day. This is what DT is talking about when he mentions "the FOV cant be stressed enough when looking for targets under time duress" because if you can't see the target then you can't hit the target. Target acquisition is extremely important in our sport, and if you're competing or you're hunting then having that little bit of edge might make the difference in your timing or your ability to make the kill.
I've been salivating over this scope for a while, it checks a lot of boxes for me. I thought I read in the first few posts that they were looking at a June delivery to dealers, but I could be wrong. I think I remember thinking the same thing about the XTRII as well. The way I remember the XTRII was they were really hard to get your hands on, then they had some type of glass issue on early models, then they became more readily available, then they came out with the XTRIII...
Would love to get my hands on one and see if it lives up to my unrealistic expectations
Would love to get my hands on one and see if it lives up to my unrealistic expectations
My only complaint about the XTR3 is that I don't have one yet!
C'mon Burris! Get that Brown Santa Truck loaded up!
C'mon Burris! Get that Brown Santa Truck loaded up!
Would love to get my hands on one and see if it lives up to my unrealistic expectations
Exactly my thoughts as well, most of the time I have unrealistic expectations with scopes, especially when I'm hoping a new release will punch way above its class and break the mold. One of the few scopes that actually met my "unrealistic expectations" was the Vortex AMG, truly an amazing scope for the price. I'm hoping the XTR III will have a similar effect, but then again, I've "hoped" about many scopes over the past few years and many scopes have let me down - again, not that they were horrible (well some were pretty bad) but they didn't live up to my expectation of what I thought they would be.
I just realized something in your pictures DT. Who makes that monster bipod in the pic with your trophy? I have not seen one with that long of leg extensions, I made some extensions for my Atlas with some oak dowels, but I'm thinking what you have is probably more sturdy. Also, the second pic of you (or your teammate?) shooting off the rock, brilliant using the tripod with a bag on top for stabilizing!
The only thing I havent gotten to do yet with the XTR3 is mount it on a rifle and really put some rounds downrange.
Several things I am confident of, that I have seen with my own eyes, is that the FOV is excellent. It's going to be a great feature of this scope for both competition and hunting. I'm really impressed with the eyebox, you see glass from edge to edge with very little black ring scope tube around it. And the depth of field is very good. Which should help resolving those difficult to see targets Dorgan was talking about. I think the parallax is going to be far less finicky than with the XTR2. Especially the earlier versions.
Several things I am confident of, that I have seen with my own eyes, is that the FOV is excellent. It's going to be a great feature of this scope for both competition and hunting. I'm really impressed with the eyebox, you see glass from edge to edge with very little black ring scope tube around it. And the depth of field is very good. Which should help resolving those difficult to see targets Dorgan was talking about. I think the parallax is going to be far less finicky than with the XTR2. Especially the earlier versions.
Well here goes. Have a team match this weekend. My wife decided to shoot a match for the first time with a friends wife. Well friends wife tore her MCL so after a couple team juggling, I am shooting the match with my wife.
As she has never shot a match before, ever, i will be having her shoot the bolt rifle and i will be shooting the carbine (i am borrowing an AR as i ordered a JP and it hasnt arrived yet). The AR has a 4-20 on it.
Both carbine and rifle weigh in at 12 lbs so happy there as its a timed field match
Her comments were pretty funny while we were practicing. She said, “This scope is so much easier to look through than a hunting scope. I also find it easier to find targets than i expected.”
Fun little testimony from a complete and udder rook.
Well, wish us luck!
Regards
DT
As she has never shot a match before, ever, i will be having her shoot the bolt rifle and i will be shooting the carbine (i am borrowing an AR as i ordered a JP and it hasnt arrived yet). The AR has a 4-20 on it.
Both carbine and rifle weigh in at 12 lbs so happy there as its a timed field match
Her comments were pretty funny while we were practicing. She said, “This scope is so much easier to look through than a hunting scope. I also find it easier to find targets than i expected.”
Fun little testimony from a complete and udder rook.
Well, wish us luck!
Regards
DT
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Wyoming Tactical Rifle Challenge. Look it up.
www.macsgunworks.com
Incredibly fun match. My favorite of the year and also the highest round count. Coincidence? probably. lol
DT
Previous Years - Mac's Gunworks
In previous years we have built guns for military, kids, ultra light, & handguns. Also in previous years we've sponsored numerous shoots.
www.macsgunworks.com
Incredibly fun match. My favorite of the year and also the highest round count. Coincidence? probably. lol
DT
This is a common theme of late, announce early, get everyone excited, but don't deliver until later. I think the Nikon NX8 is the only one that has surprised me with their quick release.
Methinks they're swamped. I sent a scope in for repair about 5 weeks ago, and aside from the confirmation of receipt, I haven't heard a word back. I'm not too concerned or miffed, since I have other glass in use, but it may indicate they are busting their humps trying to get product to market.
Getting 20 or even 50 scopes out the door may seem reasonable within a short time, but hundreds of hundreds would require quite a bit of effort and many areas where dates could slip. Still, (based off personal experience while consulting) it's never a good idea to perform a "product release" or "press release" with substantial time between that and actual availability. While it gets the competitors reacting, it can easily back fire. And a costly back fire at that.
I hope they get their products out soon!
Getting 20 or even 50 scopes out the door may seem reasonable within a short time, but hundreds of hundreds would require quite a bit of effort and many areas where dates could slip. Still, (based off personal experience while consulting) it's never a good idea to perform a "product release" or "press release" with substantial time between that and actual availability. While it gets the competitors reacting, it can easily back fire. And a costly back fire at that.
I hope they get their products out soon!
What I don't understand is how they can go from "being ready to ship just after shot show" to still nothing in July.
Surely you wouldn't make a statement like the first one until all the Ts are crossed and Is dotted and all that's left is to press the big green go button on the CNC machines.
I understand there can always be hiccups, but saying you are all ready to go when you clearly are not is just plain lying.
Based on history of early release of product not quite ready for prime time, if even the remotest or smallest QC issue was present, I’d much rather see a Mfg focus on corrective action than constantly updating their status on a moment/moment basis. And rework is 2-3x as expensive as doing it right once , as well as avoiding the PR of premature release of a flawed product. That learning curve is steep, and a climb you’d only want to make once.
My guess is they found some needed mods/additional QC's that are needed based on those field testing the prototypes/first run items.
I agree, in fact, Burris knows all about this from the XTR II release, they had a number of QC/QA issues coming out the door that really hurt the long term, if the XTR III takes an extra 3 months to release but releases as a stellar optic without issues from the get go, well that is well worth the wait for me.
Couple things. First off the delay in production. I called em and asked whats going on. Their anodizing guy that was literally down the street went out of business due to new regulation BS in CO. Due to the high tolerances required, their new anodizer is out of state. Just imagine the headache of figuring out everything again that was supposed to be done and add several state separation to progress. Ugh.
After they got that sorted out, they had other std production bugs are being sorted out. Pretty sure Im not the only one that wants a BA product to be shipped the first time. Nearly 100% American made means they are doing all the work. If not for the anodizing deal, these scopes would be shipping.
At the WTRC last weekend, there was a production scope being shot by a Burris guy. It is darker in color (tint of anodizing) but way better than my prototype Ive been using in both glass and general feel. Be patient guys. This is going to be worth it.
Regards,
DT
After they got that sorted out, they had other std production bugs are being sorted out. Pretty sure Im not the only one that wants a BA product to be shipped the first time. Nearly 100% American made means they are doing all the work. If not for the anodizing deal, these scopes would be shipping.
At the WTRC last weekend, there was a production scope being shot by a Burris guy. It is darker in color (tint of anodizing) but way better than my prototype Ive been using in both glass and general feel. Be patient guys. This is going to be worth it.
Regards,
DT
hashtagfamilyswhoshoottogetherstaytogether
#wtrc WYOMING TACTICAL RIFLE CHAMPIONSHIP in the books. Mixed it up this year and shot it with my wife and wow she didnt disappoint. after day 1 we were solidly in 2nd. day 2 and day 3 both saw catastrophic AR issues happen on my AR and we dropped to 7th. Still ecstatic with a top 10 finish in my wife’s first match ever. #love #wife #womenwhoshoot
highlight of the match? we had high hit % with pistol over the whole match. very exciting to have that to build on!
Wife used the XTR3 on the rifle and as shown above, I used an old XTR2 4-20 on my AR. She shot roughly 350 rounds and I shot nearly 400 carbine rounds. We shot a combined 200 pistol rounds.
When our carbine went completely down on day 3 we borrowed a friends with another scope on it. Using it she really struggled finding targets. This eye box is really nice.
This position had 7 rifle and 5 carbine targets from 220 - 1100 yards. Very tough position. Very fun.
Regards,
DT
#wtrc WYOMING TACTICAL RIFLE CHAMPIONSHIP in the books. Mixed it up this year and shot it with my wife and wow she didnt disappoint. after day 1 we were solidly in 2nd. day 2 and day 3 both saw catastrophic AR issues happen on my AR and we dropped to 7th. Still ecstatic with a top 10 finish in my wife’s first match ever. #love #wife #womenwhoshoot
highlight of the match? we had high hit % with pistol over the whole match. very exciting to have that to build on!
Wife used the XTR3 on the rifle and as shown above, I used an old XTR2 4-20 on my AR. She shot roughly 350 rounds and I shot nearly 400 carbine rounds. We shot a combined 200 pistol rounds.
When our carbine went completely down on day 3 we borrowed a friends with another scope on it. Using it she really struggled finding targets. This eye box is really nice.
This position had 7 rifle and 5 carbine targets from 220 - 1100 yards. Very tough position. Very fun.
Regards,
DT
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That stinks about the anodizer. Colorado is quickly becoming a very left state, politically speaking, I wouldn't doubt someone caught decided anodizing is destroying the ozone and 5 polar bears have died because of this one guy alone. Sorry, I love polar bears, but some of this stuff goes too far.
Did I just read that right @D_TROS , did you just say the production version you thought was "way better" than your version in both feel and glass? I thought you said you were very impressed with the glass in your version but you think production is better...
Did I just read that right @D_TROS , did you just say the production version you thought was "way better" than your version in both feel and glass? I thought you said you were very impressed with the glass in your version but you think production is better...
So much for using it this year. Just a guess, I’m thinking someone will come out with a new scope come shot show 2020. Most people still won’t get the XTR 3 in their hands before that news. In turn the new scope will come out quickly like the NF MIL-XT did. Being able to use it for the 2020 season. This killing the XTR 3 sales.
I was hoping to get one or two of these but have since gotten tired of the wait and bought some other companies scope. I’m figuring if I have done this many others have too. Not being prepared loses the race.
They would have been better off to have 10,000 units done sitting in the warehouse, then releasing it at the 2020 show than to do this.
I was hoping to get one or two of these but have since gotten tired of the wait and bought some other companies scope. I’m figuring if I have done this many others have too. Not being prepared loses the race.
They would have been better off to have 10,000 units done sitting in the warehouse, then releasing it at the 2020 show than to do this.
So help me understand, Burris announces XTR III in late 2018, Burris has not delivered the scope by mid 2019 so you buy another scope instead, but you think it would be better if Burris never announced the scope at all, but instead announced it at 2020 SHOT Show with 10,000 units ready to ship. So because Burris announced it early you are not going to buy it? I guess I'm trying to understand the logic of how can Burris be losing out by announcing in 2018 vs announcing once they have a large enough stock on hand? Don't get me wrong, I understand we can get frustrated when there are delays, but I don't see how this is hurting Burris sales? If they announced the scope in 2020 aren't they still "losing" out on sales in 2019, so how are they worse off?
I guess I see it a bit differently. Example, when Ford came out with the new body style pickup and a more powerful diesel motor I went and bought it. Now say Chevy tells us that they have a new truck coming out with better fuel mpg and such. So as my Ford is gaining miles on the odometer I’m wanting and waiting on the Chevy. We’ll release date comes and passes with now showing of the Chevy. Finally it’s a year or two later and they are ready to release the Chevy in 2020. Well by this time I’m over the wait and Ford has come up with a new truck that does better on mpg, or whatever it was that Chevy offered. So I’m going to stay with Ford first off they are more reliable with their statements. Plus I’m already familiar with that line of product and not to willing to change companies.
I think I'm following, but if Chevy never announced their new truck until 2020, when Ford also had a new model that matched it, how would it be different, wouldn't you still stay with Ford? Only if Chevy actually delivered on the new model before Ford ever announced their's would you consider switching, and maybe that is your point - you were going to switch to the Burris XTR III after using Brand X because the XTR III offered some features that you liked more than Brand X, but because Burris has been unable to ship the XTR III, Brand X has announced and began delivery of a new model that you think is just as good if not better with the XTR III so now you will stick with that brand/model. Where your example above is flawed is with automobiles that lose 50% of their value once you drive them off the lot, most of these high end optics hold most of their value and if it's a popular model may only lose about 10% (depending on how good of a deal you got to begin with).
Let's say I decide to buy a Nightforce NX8 today because I'm tired of waiting for the XTR III to come out, but 3 months from now Burris is finally shipping the XTR III and I find out it has better IQ, parallax and DOF (something that may mean a lot to me), I don't think I'll lose much by selling the NX8 and purchasing the XTR III if I truly felt it would give me an advantage. (I bring this up because this is something I have considered of late
)
I had a brief conversation with the high mucky mucks about this on Thursday. We only briefly touched on the XTR3 as the purpose of the conversation was regarding a national PRS match coming up that I am the Match Director on out here near Boise Idaho. Burris is our match sponsor and they took GREAT care of me for our match. They contributed over 5k in merchandise to our prize table.
What we did end up touching on is that production delays have occurred for various reasons. And it goes completely without saying that the entire credibility of this new scope, and any new scope release relies very heavily on a clean entry into the market. Everyone here can think of a scope or three that came onto the market with bugs and flaws, and it takes a long time to overcome that. Burris has over two years development into this optic, and they really want the production version to be spot on when it leaves the factory.
It was mentioned that some 5.5-30x56's with the Mil SCR2 were going to QC, and should see daylight very soon. If I get one, I'll put up some pics.
What we did end up touching on is that production delays have occurred for various reasons. And it goes completely without saying that the entire credibility of this new scope, and any new scope release relies very heavily on a clean entry into the market. Everyone here can think of a scope or three that came onto the market with bugs and flaws, and it takes a long time to overcome that. Burris has over two years development into this optic, and they really want the production version to be spot on when it leaves the factory.
It was mentioned that some 5.5-30x56's with the Mil SCR2 were going to QC, and should see daylight very soon. If I get one, I'll put up some pics.
5.5-30x56s hitting the shelves this month. They are undergoing QC right now with some of them in the wild. Jose Gardner won a PRS competition with one last weekend.
And if I'm not mistaken, the 3.3-18x50 has some expected deliveries in September. Hopefully some folks are able to grab one for hunting season.
And if I'm not mistaken, the 3.3-18x50 has some expected deliveries in September. Hopefully some folks are able to grab one for hunting season.
I have owned 2 xtr2 scopes (a 1-5 and a 3-15) and other than some CA if your eye isn’t centered, I didn’t think the glass was quite as bad as everyone says........at least not on the smaller models that i owned. But the xtr2 is as tough as nails and mechanically sound, and I can’t wait to check out the xtr3....especially since they are supposed to be made in America.
Me neither.
I'm grabbing a 30x with the SCR2 for my PRS rifle. But I'm definitely getting in line for that 18x to go on my 300 Norma for hunting.
I'm grabbing a 30x with the SCR2 for my PRS rifle. But I'm definitely getting in line for that 18x to go on my 300 Norma for hunting.
I am a little more interested in the 3.3-18x, but I will try to get my hands on whichever comes out first.
ILya
ILya
Also, for those who might discount the XTR III 5.5-30x56 because it is 5.5x on the low end, take a look at the FOV numbers and you'll find the 5.5-30 actually has greater FOV than many 5-25's at the low end. For me, FOV almost always trumps magnification making this a viable option for those who might be more used to 5-25 scopes.
@GeoffatBurris I have sent you a PM
Can you disclose who the vendors are that will be getting the 5.5x30? I think one might be right at home on a 22LR trainer I am going to finish in the next few weeks...
Believe me brother I wish I knew.. but I'm not in that loop..
That will definitely be a great optic for it. I run a 223 Ackley Improved for a trainer and have a ball with it. In Wyoming a few weeks back for the Hornady PRC I was just goofing off with it, and plunked a 1178 yard target on the first round using the bulk Hornady 75gr BTHP. Having an inexpensive rifle to get trigger time on is a lot of fun.
Are you wondering which vendors will be getting the XTR III scopes? I would imagine every vendor who has orders with Burris will have access to order, but maybe you're asking which vendor will be getting the "first" orders and for that you will need to contact Burris directly and see if they can provide any insight. I would also check with the following Hide vendors (in no particular order) Jason at eurooptic.com (@Baner), Richard at cstactical.com (@CSTactical), Doug at Cameralandny.com (@gr8fuldoug) and Marshall at sportoptics (@MarshalC_SportOptics ) and Scott at libertyoptics.com (@LibertyOptics ) - all these guys are Burris dealers and are a pleasure to work with, they will treat you right!
The XTR line up has been very successful for Burris. I think they want to keep that going.
I tried trust me. For some reason they didn't go for 'BRIGHT ANGLULAR MINUTE FINESSE" scope or BAMF for short...lol
end of day who cares, its gonne be way sweeter than the 2 and that's all that matters.
DT
I always thought it was a National Park in British ColumbiaIs that what BAMF stands for?
