Bushmaster=hate?

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

met a guy a month ago who learned that i put AR's together---he has an as new Bushy purchased 5 yrs ago and said it had never fired 1 mag without FTF---I threw away his mags that came with the rifle, put in a Bravo Co bolt carrier asssy and it has functioned perfectly since with the P mags---no more failures

the moral of the story is that Bushmasters are good for parts--just choose carefully

 

[Bedlam]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

Bushmaster has changed quite a bit over the years, both better and worse, which probably explains why there are people with positive experiences and people with negative experiences.

Way back in the preban era they were one of only a very, very few options for an AR-15. Some of Bushmaster's aluminum parts anodizing made them look a shiny dark purple instead of flat black. I typically noticed this on the adjustment knobs of the rear sight. The barrel coating was done <span style="font-style: italic">after</span> installation of the FSB, so underneath the FSB my barrel was unprotected and had surface corrosion. Otherwise, they were pretty good and worked well.

Just the before the ban, as has already been pointed out, they pumped out a lot of product with poor QC. They were not alone in this, as Olympic Arms did so as well, even to the point of making lowers that looked like they were cast in sand molds. I admit there was an unspoken industry attitude at the time to simply get as many preban rifles into people's hands as possible before the ban hammer hit, then make them working afterwards when there was time.

Once the preban madness was over, I think Bushmaster started to make the best rifles they ever made. I bought a DCM model rifle and it was an absolutely superb shooter.

Today I have no opinion of their current rifles simply because, as others have pointed out, there are plenty of high quality alternative for around the same price.

No matter what the era, I feel like every time they've tried to make their own rifle (M17 bullpup, plastic AR-15s, ACR), they haven't succeeded.

The end result is that I was relatively happy with my Bushmasters, but I've also sold them and moved on to better equipment. I think when buying used you simply have to be careful. It is possible to get a great deal on a good era gun, or you could also end up with a bad era gun.

 

[rooster2/16]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MM1776</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 216</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok today I tore the bushlackluster down and wow!!! the trigger springs, firing pin, gas piston rings, extractor and charging handle are pure shit. cheaply produced and not up to what I would consider to be quality. </div></div>

Can you elaborate? </div></div>

Sure. Trigger springs, weak and not even ex. length. Firing pin, it was not smoothly rounded and leaving a 3/4 round mark on the primer. Gas piston rings, sloppy in their fitment, ex. to big. Charging handle, bent and seemed to be made that way, couldn't visually find and stress on either side. Extractor, failed multiple times. All components did not show any wear that went against sellers 600-800 round count. Ordered a gold trigger today. I have liked the reset they had in the past. Still researching other parts for now. Hope this helped.

 

[samnev]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

I don't know much about DPMS products except 1. I own a DPMS SASS and Its fit, finish and accuracy are terrific. Never had a single problem. What am I comparing it to? I also own a LMT MWS that came out of the box with many chips in the finish and had a barrel that had to be re-torqued before it would shoot decent groups. I also own an Armalite AR10 A4. It's fit and finish are fine but not as accurate as the SASS. Additionally the trigger pull on the LMT and the AR10 A4 were extremely heavy and I had to put in a JP trigger spring to get them close to the SASS. Needless to say my SASS is my favorite 308 platform.

 

[TenZero]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

Wow. I like the part where everyone who actually owns and shoots significant round count through their Bushmasters say they work just fine, and none of the 'problems' reported in this thread are from people who actually shot the rifle and had the issue. It's all "My buddy's did this," and "I read about that on ARFcom" or "the detent springs aren't polished pretty" Whatever.

Real experience: I own two BMs - a 16" ban era LE/Govt stamped patrol carbine, and a 20" predator. My patrol rifle has 1000's of rounds through it and years spent riding in the trunk of a Crown Vic, shot dozens of matches and rifle classes, and the only FTFs I've ever had were caused by a bunk magazine. Once I 86ed that mag, problems solved, ran like a top ever since, and still my go to AR. And my Predator? Runs flawlessly, never a FTF yet.

If YOU had a bad experience, I'm listening, and I would be unwise to not compare that to my own experience. If it's just rumors and internet gossip, grain of salt deployed. Dude who got one for $450, Score! and good on you, don't let the old wives make you dislike your rifle. Buy ammo and put it to the test yourself.

Maybe I got lucky... Twice. YMMV

End of rant, sorry.

 

[NYresq]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

I bought one of the Varmint Stainless specials when they first came out.mIt was a solid 3/4 MOA gun with SS109 rounds. reaching out to 300 yards and keeping them in the black was no problem. I never had a problem with it, but I did change out the two stage NM trigger that came with it, for a timney drop in single stage unit as soon as I bought it...

I have a few friends that have some basic level Bushy M4's they use for plinking and no one has ever asked me to fix it for them... so I guess under light use the current production stuff can't be all bad. Its not a Wilson combat custom or an LWRC, but its also 1/3 the price...

 

[lrrs311]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

I had a bushmaster from 2002-2008. It was the post-ban M4 style. It had the mini-y comp brake and the pinned m4 style stock. A lot of you guys will remember this exact model and some of you prolly even had it. I shot through that lil carbine between 15-20,000rds. It had a serious failure once.. I was working through a magazine of ammo and fired a round and the round didnt eject and the bolt didnt cycle. I pulled the bolt to the rear, ejecting the spend round and chambering a new one. I fired again, and the same exact thing happened. I dropped the mag, cleared the rifle and placed it on safe. Upon opening up the rifle and pulling out the bolt carrier. I noticed the gas tube carrier screws had worked themselves very loose. Bushmaster had never staked them.. I'm pretty sure thats a mil-spec requirement but whatever.. After tightening down those screws again the rifle continued to run without issue. I finally sold it to a friend in 2008 before I moved from NY, to FL. Hopefully, Bushmaster has choosen to stake those gas tube carrier screws since then, but aside from that I don't have any issue's with Bushmaster. I enjoyed that rifle for yrs.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TenZero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow. I like the part where everyone who actually owns and shoots significant round count through their Bushmasters say they work just fine, and none of the 'problems' reported in this thread are from people who actually shot the rifle and had the issue. It's all "My buddy's did this," and "I read about that on ARFcom" or "the detent springs aren't polished pretty" Whatever.

Real experience: I own two BMs - a 16" ban era LE/Govt stamped patrol carbine, and a 20" predator. My patrol rifle has 1000's of rounds through it and years spent riding in the trunk of a Crown Vic, shot dozens of matches and rifle classes, and the only FTFs I've ever had were caused by a bunk magazine. Once I 86ed that mag, problems solved, ran like a top ever since, and still my go to AR. And my Predator? Runs flawlessly, never a FTF yet.

If YOU had a bad experience, I'm listening, and I would be unwise to not compare that to my own experience. If it's just rumors and internet gossip, grain of salt deployed. Dude who got one for $450, Score! and good on you, don't let the old wives make you dislike your rifle. Buy ammo and put it to the test yourself.

Maybe I got lucky... Twice. YMMV

End of rant, sorry. </div></div>

I enjoyed reading this post. Sometimes Internet research is worthless. Folks hear about this or that being good or bad without considering the credentials or motivation of the source.

Folks tell me they've heard DPMS products are not as good as whatever. I've worked at a gun store part time for 8 years now and know that fewer DPMS guns have come back for redemption of warranty work than any other brand the store sells even though DPMS sales are greater than others. From my perspective DPMS appears to be as reliable as any. Also, my personal experience with DPMS, like with the SASS and DCM guns, suggest they are extraordinarily accurate.

At any rate, today the market overall is, I think in spite of the Internet, very well informed, helping all of us get better value.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

^^and the voices of reason rule the day^^ thanks for the well thought out post.

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snake Plissken</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys know F marked A frame FSBs are only for carbine length setups to compensate for the shorter sight radius, right? </div></div>

Here's the scoop on the effect of sight radius: The same detachable carry handle BDC is used on both the M4 and A4. On an A4, elevation wheel and windage drum have a 1/2 MOA value per click. On an M4, the windage drum and elevation wheel have a 3/4 MOA value per click. The click value for the F or A2 front sight on an A4 or A2 is about 1.2 MOA. The click value for the F or A2 front sight on an M4 is about 1.75 MOA.

The reason flattop M4's and A4's use the taller F marked front sight base is to support a 600 meter requirement for the BDC detachable carry handle rear sight, which had to be made taller than the fixed carry handle sight to meet the requirement, since its shaft does not reach below the upper receiver's surface as does the fixed carry handle's sight stem.

There are some A4's out there assembled by RRA, DPMS, and Bushmaster which use the A2 front sight base as do A2 fixed carry handle rifles. But, when mil-spec BDC's are attached to these flattop guns they will usually shoot about 10 minutes of angle high, that's 20 inches high at 200 yards. Thing is, the folks who are putting these guns together apparently don't know they have a problem. Some folks just don't see how 40 thousandths of an inch could be meaningful.

One more thing, when zeroing the A4 for 300 meters at 25 meters, the 6/3 index on the elevation wheel is temporally abandoned with 2 clicks up to the Z mark. After zeroing at 25 meters the sight is adjusted counter clockwise back to the 6/3 index and the line of sight will now intersect bullet path at 32 and 300 meters.
</div></div>

This is what happened to my Stag Arms rifle. The goddamn thing constantly shoots high.

So high I had to turn the front sight post all the way up, so it sits flush with the ears on the FSB.

Sent it back to Stag 3 times and finally, after I figured it out for those dumbasses, they put an F-spaced FSB on it.

But, it still shoots high for some goddamn reason.

Not to mention their lowers are out of spec for the buffer tube hole. Couldn't use a Stag lower on a Bohica .50bmg upper since the upper and lower didn't match the bolt would hang up.

Maybe the lower is out of spec but I don't see how that can cause me to shoot high....

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

Everyone knows if you arent a Rock River Arms fan your automatically a hater.

Especially Bushmaster fans.

 

[beenjammin]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

I never had issues with most of their rifles (except the acr, owned 2) their ARs have always done the job just fine. I dont care for their level of CS either, but thats my opinion.

 

[b rad]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

My Bushy was my first AR and is still my go to/beater rifle. Ive had mine since about 2004 so I cant really say much about the current quality, but ive never had any problems. I know a few other people that have various other Bushmaster models and have never heard them complain. Just my 2 cents though.

 

[Strykervet]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bushmaster barrels used to be fantastic. </div></div>

Yeah, back when there were only a few makers their rifles were considered up there alongside Colt.

I've heard a lot of bad about them lately and there are a lot of really good makers now... You can't get away with being shoddy nowadays.

 

[Unknown]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

I have owned two bushmaster 5.56 mm rifles. Both were plenty accurate, and absoutely reliable. However, both were purchased fully built from the factory.

I have owned about 20 various Ar15 type rifles. In terms of out of the box accuracy and reliability, my top four choices from rifles I have owned would be:

1. Old Eagle arms rifles (prior to them being bought out) These rifles date from the Clinton presidency era
2. Alexander Arms Grendels
3. Bushmaster
4. Colt

Other rifles could be better; I haven't owned any Larue, LMT, or any of the other numerous possibilities out there.

 

[J1Rjr]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

My buddy bought the bushmaster orc. Is there any way to remove the gas block or is it part of the barrel, cuz it looks like almost one piece.

 

[p951951951t]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

For what it's worth, I owned a bushmaster upper for a while. It had a canted FSB and the quality generally seemed below par.

 

[ScarBliss]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

Does BM stake gas keys yet? I remember the first one I ever handled in a shop back when I was 18 and my father promptly returned it to the salesman after popping out the carrier.

 

[Heltsley]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SCARbliss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does BM stake gas keys yet? I remember the first one I ever handled in a shop back when I was 18 and my father promptly returned it to the salesman after popping out the carrier. </div></div>

I looked at a Remington Bushmaster the other day and the gas key was staked correctly.

Looked a Windham settig beside it and it was the same old staking as it was when they were Bushmaster.

Not saying the rest of the rifle was any better than before but it has a staked gas key. I didnt look at the castle nut to see if it was....

 

[workmanjw]

Re: Bushmaster=hate?

So I see I am in a long line of people that have had negative experience with Bushmaster. To add to it, I bought a 6.8 M4 a few years back thinking it had potential and it wasn't priced bad. Right out of the box, mag loaded, round chambered and when I hit the trigger, there was a boom. That was the first and only one. After that, click. I manually eject a round and it is rinse and repeat. Needless to say I have quite a few parts to swap out. By parts, I mean rifle. It was sent in only to come back with the same issues. I let CS know and they said I could order replacement parts from their website. Armalite on the other hand, I called them and told them about the problem I was having with my AR-180 and they send me free replacement parts. If Bushmaster thinks the buck is more important than customers, try running a business without them. The difference between ordinary and extraordinary....is that little extra. Push the fish, it's about to turn...