Rifle Scopes Bushnell or vortex, please help me decide.

[jason161]

So with much help and long nights reading and studying and watching videos nice got my rifle and everything I need but the scope.
I have decided between the Bushnell Tactical Elite 3.5-21x50 G2DMR scope, and the Vortex viper PST 6-24x50 scope . I can't get the viper today for $800 out the door. It has zero stops, illumination and good glass.
The Bushnell is $1250-1400. It does not have illumination. Does have a great reticle and glass.
I know at these tactical matches I won't really use illumination but I'm not sure if the Bushnell is worth it when I get the whole package for $800. I'm not sure if I'll be wishing I had the extra features of the viper if I go with the Bushnell.
Keep in mind my original budget was $5-600. I doubled it almost for the viper at $950(now I can get it used for 800), then raised it again for the Bushnell lol. I'm willing to pull the trigger today And need to get one soon before long range clinic next month. I just am not in a situation to spend any more then the Bushnell and I'm already at the mercy of my better half for her letting me spend more.
These are the options, help me decide based on features and cost please!
I know some of you wouldn't use either and would go with a NF or Schmidt but that's not going to happen for me so put yourself in my spot and let me know which what you would choose?
This is for long range out to 1k tactical matches and just fun shooting long range on my own.
Another thought is if I'm taking part in these monthly tactical matches for fun, will I outgrow the PST as a new shooter in a year and wish I had the Bushnell? I don't know.. I'm not sure if I'll miss the features of the PST
Besides the zero stop I might not ever use.

 

[samnev]

After looking thru the Bushnell G2DMR FFP 3.5-21X50 scope and comparing its glass to my VV FFP's I decided to go with the Bushnell. I have no use for the illuminated reticle and have never used it on any of my VV or NF scopes. So it came down to the zero stop. For me I started out a number of years back with a NF NXS 8-32X56 without the ZS, the hadn't come out yet with that option. So I had to dial in the elevation correction I needed for longer range shots. I never had a problem with that. That being said the older model Bushnell G2DMR FFP 3-5-21X50 without the zero stop and 10 mil turrets is what I bought at less than $1200 rather the another VV.

 

[TxShooter63]

Before I say anything, let me make it clear that I work and shoot for IOR Valdada scopes. Prior to working for IOR I owned and used both of the scopes you are considering. My experience with Bushnell was not good. The H59 reticle was out of calibration and they eventually ended up sending me another scope which had the turret offset so the numbers didn't line up and I was able to fix that myself. The glass in the Bushnell was so bad that I literally could not see some of the targets at the PRS matches. (They are small and don't get painted so they are hard to see with good glass). Other than the glass, the Bushnell DMR scopes are well designed and constructed. Having a locking turret isn't a great plan for competition use but most people don't buy them for that.

The Viper PST is not as solidly built as the Bushnell and the smaller turrets aren't quite as intuitive when you are in a hurry. I am not saying it isn't reliable but you can compare the scopes side by side and the Bushnell is simply more solidly built. The glass, in my opinion is on par with the Bushnell for considerably less money. Basically the PST in my opinion is a slightly less durable scope than the Bushnell with comprable glass. The EBR-2 reticle is one of the better designs I have seen but that is purely opinion. I hated the H59 and would not recommend it for competition use.

I hate offering opinions on SH but in my opinion, you aren't gaining alot by spending the extra money on the Bushnell. If get serious about long range competition shooting you will eventually by a high-end scope so I would probably go with the PST and start saving for a Vortex Razor, IOR, S&B, Steiner, ect, ect. I have alot of students who go through my long range courses using the PST with good success. Honestly, I am not sure the glass in the PST isn't better than the Bushnell. In the last class I taught one of the students had a Bushnell DMR and I looked at a target at 100 yards and was in disbelief as to the lack of clarity. I thought the parallax was not operating properly. I have used and looked through alot of Bushnells and never seen one that bad. I told him to send it back for replacement. Most are much better than his was. If you have any more questions or if I can help you in any way, email me at [email protected]. Thanks

 

[lash]

If I only had those two options to choose from, I'd go with the Bushnell without question. However, I urge you to take a look at the Sightron SIII 6-24x50 FFP scope. From what you are saying, you do not necessarily need the ruggedness of the Bushnell nor the illumination or zero stop of the PST. Also, it is in the same price range as the PST, but with arguably better glass.

I'd suggest that you give a call to Scott at Liberty Optics. He is a vendor here, carries all three of these scopes, and can discuss with you the options and help you to make a decision that works best for your needs.

EDIT: I normally do not bring up issues that I read about, without personal experience, but I urge you to do a little research on issues that people here and elsewhere are having with their Vortex PSTs. It concerns me when I see the recommendations to someone who says they have little money and need that one scope. If you had tons of rifles and many scopes, then it isn't as much a concern for me, as you can fall back while the new scope is sent back for repair or replacement. There have been more than a couple threads on here recently regarding repetitive issues with reticle alignment , etc.

I'm not saying for you to not buy one, just make sure you are making an informed decision. BTW, it is well known that Vortex has good customer service, so do not take this as me bad-mouthing a specific brand or product. I happen to like Vortex products generally.

 

[jason161]

Thank you both for your responses. I have heard of some issues. They both have great warranties. My only issue is I want the best I can get that I can grow into but not short change myself with features. And yes this will be my one and only scope for now so I need something solid. Please keep any opinions coming. Right now I still don't know. It would be nice to spend less and if I get serious I'll be upgrading anyways so that's good. However I don't know with my family situation when I could upgrade soooo..

 

[USP45]

I have had a 6-24x50 PST FFP, and for the money I thought is was a pretty good scope. I did however have two issues with the PST that are inherent to the scope itself, and were not defects which could be remedied by Vortex. The first issue was the glass. If you are going to use the scope for matches during normal daylight then my first issue will most likely not effect you one way or another, but the glass in the PST was not suitable for hunting during very early morning or very late evening. Like in the last 15 minutes of legal shooting light. The PST just lost too much resolution at these low light times for me to take a 650+ yard shot on a white tail. I missed a great opportunity because of this. Again, for what you are going to use it for this would more then likely be a non issue.

My other complaint was a somewhat picky eye box, especially from 20x up. This is not to say that it was unusable by any means, but it was finicky. What the Vortex does have going for it is an unbeatable warranty, and the features for the price were very good from my perspective.

If you are not stuck on FFP you might want to give NF's new scope a look, it is under 1K and the initial comments have been very positive. I just do not know that it would work for you shooting tactical matches being SFP.

Overall the PST is a good scope, it just has some limitations due to the price point/features. One thing though is that if you do pick it up for $800 then you will more then likely be able to sell it for the same if you do not like it.

 

[jason161]

Yes that was what I was thinking too as I've been watching them go on eBay used for $850-900 when they're brand new $950! So that's good.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The Bushnell is in a different league than the vortex. Better quality, better scope all around. The PST's I had the illumination didn't go low enough to be useful so I wouldn't consider that a deciding factor. I'd call Scott at liberty and see his price on the Bushnell and make it happen. If you don't mind spending the cash I'd go the extra bit to get the ERS for the 10 mil turret and zero stop but regardless you will come out with a solid scope.

 

[Km22]

Definitely get the Bushnell. The more difficult choice would be comparing to a Vortex Razor, but not the PST...

 

[jason161]

Thanks guys.

 

[flatland1]

I've got a couple of VV PST 6-24x50 MOAs, but they're both sfp instead of ffp models. Have been shooting them in tactical matches, and had good results, with the exception of sfp issues, especially on movers. Their tracking accuracy is excellent - I've been out to 1400yds & back to 100 several times with both these scopes w/o issue. I've also got several Sightron SIII 6-24x50 LRMOAs, and feel the optical quality of the SIII is somewhat better than the PST's, at least when both are set at 24x. And the SIIIs track at least as reliably as the PSTs.

I did a lot of searching & reading early this winter when I finally decided to throw in the towel and go with a FFP mil/mil scope. Not wanting to have to try to sell off a rifle or two in order to be able to afford a S&B, Premier, Kahles, etc, I finally went for a Bushnell ET35215GZA, which is the ERS w/10 mil knobs, zero stop, and FDE finish. In my opinion, the ERS's glass might be slightly better than the SIII's; at least it seems a little brighter. With both scopes set to 21x, there's not a lot of difference in clarity. After getting used to the appearance of the ERS's huge knobs, I'm learning to appreciate the 10 mil/revolution feature, and do like the G2DMR reticle quite a lot. If the glass of the older 34mm 3.5-21x50 DMR is of equal quality as the newer ERS, I think you'd be very well served with one of those scopes. It'd be nice to have a zero stop with 5 mil turrets, but I think the DMR's turret markings will keep you out of trouble in that respect, and while the DMR's knobs aren't as tall as the ERS's, they're still big enough in diameter to make dialing in changes easy, and with wider spacing between hash marks, easier to read.

If you can't find or swing a deal on one of the 34mm DMRs, I'd look at Sightron's FFP version of the SIII 6-24x5. It's very close to the same price as Bushnell's ET6245FG, but I think the optical clarity of the SIII is a little better than the Bushnell.

 

[MikeInUtah]

I own both the Bushnell XRS and ERS and have not had any issues with them. I have similar use cases to yours and I have not felt any disadvantage to not having illumination. Just curious, have you checked out the horus reticle?

 

[jason161]

Yes I have. I like it too, I don't know why but people at the club here I'm sacramento told me to forget that Horus reticle and get the g2.. I like both so either one.I'm leaning towards Bushnell

 

[fdkay]

So, if you're looking at the vortex 6-24, why wouldn't you consider the Bushnell 6-24?
The Sightron SIII 6-24FFP would be a very attractive option, it is also in the same price bracket.

If you are shooting tactical matches, you might be better served with something in the 3-15 or 4-16 range.
Here, the Weaver tactical 3-15 is hard to beat, the illuminated EMDR is a decent reticle for the job.

 

[MikeInUtah]

Yes I have. I like it too, I don't know why but people at the club here I'm sacramento told me to forget that Horus reticle and get the g2.. I like both so either one.I'm leaning towards Bushnell

Please dont let some randoms sway your decision on the horus reticle. The horus reticle is debated quite extensively on SH. The general consensus is the people that dont like it either never saw it in person or quickly dismissed it as being too busy. I think if you are looking for something to grow into the horus will definitely fit that. If the horus was really that bad, there wouldnt be that many similar type reticles available.

 

[Km22]

Yes I have. I like it too, I don't know why but people at the club here I'm sacramento told me to forget that Horus reticle and get the g2.. I like both so either one.I'm leaning towards Bushnell

Because anything that you can do with a HORUS reticle, you can also do with a normal MIL reticle. However, it might be easier for some to use the HORUS.

 

[jason161]

Please dont let some randoms sway your decision on the horus reticle. The horus reticle is debated quite extensively on SH. The general consensus is the people that dont like it either never saw it in person or quickly dismissed it as being too busy. I think if you are looking for something to grow into the horus will definitely fit that. If the horus was really that bad, there wouldnt be that many similar type reticles available.

I agree Mike. So im not looking at the Bushnell 6-24 as the bushnell 3.5-21 has better/newer glass in it then the previous 6-24 from what I read. Its hard as I can get the vortex for $809, and the bushnell for $1160. I have the chance to get the bushnell used for $1k but so far I cant find a definite answer as to if the warranty is transferable with the bushnell. On their website it says limited lifetime warranty for original owner...
I could use the $200-300 for reloading equipment which I need too if I got the PST. I dont want to short change myself though so the Bushnell is looking good. Not to say the PSt wouldnt be fine for me, but the bushnell I think might provide me better glass and room to grow with the reticle etc. Leaving me not wishing for more in a year or 6 months whatever..

 

[bloodsport06]

i know you said you cant go up anymore in price but i just picked up a vortex razor 50-20x50 from cameralandny for $1650. these are demo model prices. ive picked up a pst and this razor from them. not a mark on either. couldnt tell any diff from being brand new. let him know your from the hide and he treats you right! the pst feels like a toy when holding the razor next to it. i cant believe i spent that much on a scope but once you have it in hand it all makes since! good luck on whatever scope you decide on!

 

[jason161]

Yeah I wish I could but ive already went up twice on price hehe. I wont live to shoot it if I go up any higher!

 

[Rattler56]

Picked this up for my 22-250 and Mike gave a little off, very happy with it as well as my Vortex 6-24 PST FFP EBR-1 Mrad.

cstactical

 

[rippit]

IMHO The bushnell HDMR scopes are the best you can get for the money spent.
I also agree that they are more comparable to the Razor than the PST.

 

[jason161]

Well I went with the Bushnell hdmr 3.5-21 with the Horus tremor2 reticle.. I would have got the g2 as I like that better however I don't know if I like it $270 better, which is the cheapest I could find that model for, considering I got this model for $900 even shipped. For that price I can't complain and will learn the tremor2. I've read good and bad, if I hate it I can always upgrade and recoup some if not most of my money I hope. Either way first scope for first rifle. Good glass, I'm happy!

 

[lash]

It sounds like you'll do just fine with that.

Good shooting.

 

[RobertB]

I would go G2DMR over a PST any day. I just sold 4 NF's and have shot rifles under the best scopes made. Not saying the DMR is the best by any means but It has served me very well and continues to do so. I have had great luck from allmy bushnells.

 

[Rattler56]

Well I went with the Bushnell hdmr 3.5-21 with the Horus tremor2 reticle.. I would have got the g2 as I like that better however I don't know if I like it $270 better, which is the cheapest I could find that model for, considering I got this model for $900 even shipped. For that price I can't complain and will learn the tremor2. I've read good and bad, if I hate it I can always upgrade and recoup some if not most of my money I hope. Either way first scope for first rifle. Good glass, I'm happy!

Great price and a nice choice, now go shoot.

 

[jason161]

Yes can't wait.
On another note about Bushnell in general. A employee was reading this thread and watching to see which way I went, and soon after I posted that I went with the Bushnell, he sent me a message offering to help me with the reti me and some documentation on it, as well as a personal email if I ever have any issues with the scope. Its nice to see a company standing behind their product and reaching out to offer help as well. So far I'm very impressed with Bushnell as I've never had a company do that, that I can recall anywaays, let alone be nice and helpful when I call myself. Not to mention the fact he mentioned he does travel around and depending where I'm at he would come by and help me personally with the reticle run down. So thumbs up for Bushnell, and based on the reviews on the forums and YouTube, I don't think you can go wrong!

 

[samnev]

Great price and a nice choice, now go shoot.

Ditto, you got the scope for a great price and I much prefer the glass in my G2DMR over my VV PST's.

 

[jason161]

Yes I'm happy and I honestly starting to feel the tremor 2 reticle will be fine for me.. It is a little busy at first glance but after getting the cheat sheet from Todd I can see why everything is then way it is and will get used to it.
Like I said, if I want the g2 later I can sell it and get another one and most likely get most of my money if not all of it back.
Glass beats features anyways so I hear lol.

 

[Rob01]

Glass beats features anyways so I hear lol.

You heard wrong

 

[jason161]

Can't tell if that's sarcasm... Well none the less I'm happy. Will be great first rifle and scope.

 

[ILcritter57]

You will like it. I have an older Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24x50 with the FFP illuminated mil-dot. I really like it and it has great glass. It tracks perfect and I have had it for a long time and put it through a lot of work. That said they are very well built and reliable. Last week I bought the new Bushnell XRS 4.5-30x50 34mm tube with the FFP G2 reticle and a Nightforce NXS 8-32x56 with the NP-2DD reticle. I went out and did a little side by side test with them and I would really like to share my results with everyone! Some of the testing would not be done in real life shooting, but I did it just to do it.

At 50 yards with the power set all the way up the NF would focus better and had clearer view. I know this test is kinda silly, but I did it just to do it. I did the same thing at 8 power and they was about the same clarity. The NF seemed at little more crisp and the XRS was brighter, but basically both was equal. At 1400 yards I was looking at a sign on the other side of a giant pond (or small lake) that said "do not enter with boat". The XRS actually had a clearer view. I could read the sign the best with the XRS, but BARELY better. The NF was exrtemely clear too and I could also read the sign well. I then did the same test, but at 600 yards and I was reading a street sign that said "lakedrive". This time the NF was a tad bit clearer, but again not by much. I had to look through them over a dozen times to make my final decision. The one thing the NF really has that is a lot better than the XRS is the eye box. At 32 power the NF has an amazingly forgiving eye box. The XRS is a little touchy, but most scopes at 30+ power have a tight eye box. The XRS is not bad, but its not as good as the NF. The NF IMO has better feeling clicks. The XRS was perfectly fine, but I just liked the feel of the NF turrets more. The feel of increasing power with the power ring was good on both, but again I would say the NF was smother. The whole entire eye piece moves on the NF when changing power. That was new to me, but I actually like it. I read NF designed it that way on purpose to have a better quality scope. Not just because... The NF feel like a better scope overall. Honestly not by much at all! The XRS is absolutely an awesome scope too and it is solid as a rock and very well built. Optically I would say the NF is better by a angle hair!!! Like I said at 1400 yards the XRS had a little bit more clearer view at that floating sign on the lake. Just so everybody know i do have 20-20 vision if that matters at all. Anyway..... comparing Bushnell Elite series rifle scopes to Nightforce NXS series rifle scopes alone shows how great of scopes Bushnell is now making! Bushnell is now true contenders in optics! The G2 reticle is great! It nice being able to crank it up to 30 power and still have a nice thin cross hair for precision target shooting. I do plan on using my XRS is 600 yard F class with my custom .308 win. The Nightforce is going on my current build .223 varmint rifle. The NP-2DD reticle is great. It doesnt clutter up your field of view. Great for varminting! Now comparing my new XRS to my older Elite tactical 6-24x50... The new XRS does have better glass with more pure clarity. Is the glass different between the 2...? I dont know. Maybe I just simply got better glass on my XRS. Well thats the testing I did!

I posted this simply cause the OP asked about Bushnell scopes and to others thinking about buying a Bushnell or Nightforce in the future. Plus I really wanted to share my experience with everybody! I hope it helps! Have safe, good and fun shooting to all! Thanks.

 

[Rob01]

Can't tell if that's sarcasm... Well none the less I'm happy. Will be great first rifle and scope.

It wasn't. You will learn glass isn't the most important thing in a scope.