Rifle Scopes Buy a TT or ZCO ??

[Kubitza123]

I don’t have a way to handle either of these before ordering so looking for input from some that have experience with both.

Not so much concerned with the cost of one is more than the other but more about which one you liked and preferred the most and why.

The GenII XR is what the TT would have I’m looking at and the ZC would have the MPCT2 .

 

[CSTactical]

I’ll be in the office in 2 hours and can happily go over the pros and cons of these fabulous scopes. We have both items in stock and/or shipping out more today to us PM me your number or call us at 916-670-1103

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

As TT owner, I'm interested in the thoughts of someone that sells them, feel free to generalize both scopes here, if you don't mind.

 

[Gilly]

I’ve recently had both and side by side, ended up selling my TT though. Both are awesome scopes I don’t think you can go wrong but I like my zco and have both the 5-27 and 4-20 can’t find anything I don’t like about them. Glass is awesome! Reticles are very nice, have one of each.

If you want locking turrets go zco, if you don’t like locking turrets go TT. Also reticle choice should be a deciding factor since all else is so close. Some guys will argue on glass with me that it’s near equal, but I like something about zco more than TT. I won’t say it’s clarity but color or contrast something just feels more comfortable about it.

Either way can’t go wrong and @CSTactical hooked me up with all three and great guys give them a call.

 

[CSTactical]

As TT owner, I'm interested in the thoughts of someone that sells them, feel free to generalize both scopes here, if you don't mind.

I'd be happy to discuss them if you give me a call at 916-670-1103

 

[blbennett1288]

The margins are so close I’d go with whatever reticle you prefer. Having said that, I’d really want to get behind a GEN3XR before making a decision. I owned a TT525 Gen2XR and have compared it side by side to a ZCO 527 MPCT2

Do you need to focus to 25 yards? Yes, ZCO

Do you want tool-less zero? Yes, TT

Do you need locking turrets? Yes, ZCO

Do you want the 36mm viewing experience? Yes, ZCO

The glass is a wash. I think TT edges out the ZCO, but it’s really hard to determine.

The ZCO eyebox and viewing image is massive. I prefer both the eyebox and viewing image of the ZCO to the TT.

ZCO controls are better than TT. Although there are reports that the TT magnification resistance is improved. I still prefer the TT turrets.

 

[CSTactical]

The margins are so close I’d go with whatever reticle you prefer. Having said that, I’d really want to get behind a GEN3XR before making a decision. I owned a TT525 Gen2XR and have compared it side by side to a ZCO 527 MPCT2

Do you need to focus to 25 yards? Yes, ZCO

Do you want tool-less zero? Yes, TT

Do you need locking turrets? Yes, ZCO

Do you want the 36mm viewing experience? Yes, ZCO

The glass is a wash. I think TT edges out the ZCO, but it’s really hard to determine.

The ZCO eyebox and viewing image is massive. I prefer both the eyebox and viewing image of the ZCO to the TT.

ZCO controls are better than TT. Although there are reports that the TT magnification resistance is improved. I still prefer the TT turrets.

That's a pretty good summary IMO

 

[koshkin]

Keep in mind that if you want a TT with Gen 3 XR, it looks like they have a couple of these at $500 off:

GEN3XR Open Box Demo - Model TT525P | Armament Technology

We have a very limited supply of Model TT525P - Gen 3 XR reticle : Double Turn elevation adjustment, 0.1 mrad adj. resolution, scopes available.

armament.com

These are effectively brand new scopes with full warranty, support, etc.

Generally, between TT and ZCO, it is kind of a tough call. TT still has a small edge in image quality especially in difficult conditions and at longer distances. TT has better microcontrast and greater depth of field so I can see through mirage a little better with it. It is longer than the ZCO though.

Eyepiece on the ZCO is a little more forgiving (for the record, this has nothing to do with the 36mm tube. I do not know what "36mm viewing experience" is) and it is a really immersive view.

I prefer the elevation turret and zerostop mechanism of the TT, but locking windage of the ZCO.

If I could lego a perfect scope, I would take TT optical system and elevation turet and graft ZCO eyepiece and windage turret onto it.

As is, with a 56mm scope, I am sticking with TT, but I am really eyeing the 4-20x50 ZCO.

Reticles are in the eye of the beholder. I like both Gen 3 XR and MPCT2

ILya

 

[CSTactical]

Keep in mind that if you want a TT with Gen 3 XR, it looks like they have a couple of these at $500 off:

We have an open Box Gen 3 XR and can match that price as well

Edit: @koshkin we can get a ZC420 out to you when you're ready.

 

[blbennett1288]

Eyepiece on the ZCO is a little more forgiving (for the record, this has nothing to do with the 36mm tube. I do not know what "36mm viewing experience" is) and it is a really immersive view.

I thought I was pretty clear that it is 2 different points in the original post, but maybe it doesn’t read like that.

“ The ZCO eyebox and viewing image is massive. I prefer both the eyebox and viewing image of the ZCO to the TT.”

Meaning the eyebox AND viewing image are large, independent of one another.

36mm viewing experience is the size of the image you perceive. The ZCO image is massive compared to the TT

 

[koshkin]

I thought I was pretty clear that it is 2 different points in the original post, but maybe it doesn’t read like that.

“ The ZCO eyebox and viewing image is massive. I prefer both the eyebox and viewing image of the ZCO to the TT.”

Meaning the eyebox AND viewing image are large, independent of one another.

36mm viewing experience is the size of the image you perceive. The ZCO image is massive compared to the TT

What does the size of the image you perceive have to do the 36mm tube diameter?

ILya

 

[sleeplz]

TCO, both

 

[blbennett1288]

What does the size of the image you perceive have to do the 36mm tube diameter?

ILya

I’ll have to dig back through the ZCO thread, but I could have sworn there was confirmation that the size of the image was a direct correlation to the tube size and was not a function of something else.

If I am wrong or have misspoken please forgive me.

 

[blbennett1288]

TCO, both

New brand?

 

[koshkin]

I’ll have to dig back through the ZCO thread, but I could have sworn there was confirmation that the size of the image was a direct correlation to the tube size and was not a function of something else.

If I am wrong or have misspoken please forgive me.

Apparent size of the image does not have a whole lot to do with tube diameter. It is mostly a function of eyepiece design and ZCO's is quite good.

ILya

 

[Bkultra]

Everyone knows it's all about girth not length. People will never respect my busted ass Gen 2 XR anymore. I want in on the 36mm experience

 

[Kubitza123]

Lmao Bkultra

 

[koshkin]

Everyone knows it's all about girth not length. People will never respect my busted ass Gen 2 XR anymore. I want in on the 36mm experience

Very true. Unfortunately, it also causes all sorts of elbow problems...

ILya

 

[Kubitza123]

Sounds like flip a coin since either will be great.

 

[CSTactical]

Sounds like flip a coin since either will be great.

It truly is Win-Win

 

[Birddog6424]

ZCO or TT?

In my expert opinion..

Yes..

 

[CSTactical]

ZCO or TT?

In my expert opinion..

Yes..

This will be the first time that we have all ZCO’s and the TT Gen 3XR all in stock at the same time

 

[lancetkenyon]

Depends on what it will be used for.

Lightweight sheep rifle? TT315M 3-15×50
Medium weight long range hunting rifle? ZCO 4-20×50
Long range heavy hunting rifle? TT525P 5-25×56 or ZCO 5-27×56.

I own two TT315Ms on lighter hunting rifles (1 for medium range deer/antelope/long range varmint, 1 for medium range elk in the steep stuff), and a ZCO 4-20×50 on a medium weight long range deer/antelope rifle.

I don't own a TT525P or ZCO 5-27. Possibly never will. But I surprise myself sometimes....

 

[CSTactical]

Depends on what it will be used for.

Lightweight sheep rifle? TT315M 3-15×50
Medium weight long range hunting rifle? ZCO 4-20×50
Long range heavy hunting rifle? TT525P 5-25×56 or ZCO 5-27×56.

I own two TT315Ms on lighter hunting rifles (1 for medium range deer/antelope/long range varmint, 1 for medium range elk in the steep stuff), and a ZCO 4-20×50 on a medium weight long range deer/antelope rifle.

I don't own a TT525P or ZCO 5-27. Possibly never will. But I surprise myself sometimes....

Lance, I may need to make that a reality some time...

 

[lancetkenyon]

Lance, I may need to make that a reality some time...

If I do, you will be the guy I will call to take my money.

 

[CSTactical]

If I do, you will be the guy I will call to take my money.

Lance if that happens I’ll make sure I send you another awesome package!

 

[jbailey]

I think it is awesome that two manufacturers we had not heard of 5 years ago have innovated and are now considered top of the hill products. Really a great achievement and a statement that the free market is a model that works.

OP, I think your decision comes down to reticle choice. And that is a decision only you can make based on your shooting style and how your brain works.

Good luck with your decision and let us know how it goes.

 

[Kubitza123]

Went with a TT genIIXR

 

[lte82]

If you plan on using a Spuhr mount or supporting your rifle on a barricade by grabbing the scope, I would avoid Tangent. I’ve seen Spuhr mounts cause parallax binding issues and has stayed they don’t recommend using the scope for support on barricades.

 

[ThePretzel]

Some guys will argue on glass with me that it’s near equal, but I like something about zco more than TT. I won’t say it’s clarity but color or contrast something just feels more comfortable about it.

Having seen through both scopes in person, I think I know the difference you're talking about and I even believe I can place what it is specifically. The two scopes appeared identical to me in terms of clarity, like you mentioned, in that edges of objects and text you saw was equally crisp with either scope. The difference I believe to be specifically in

Through the TT everything you see has a relatively flat and accurate color. Things are more or less exactly the same color as they would appear with the naked eye. Through the ZCO everything you see is ever so slightly more vivid, as though the color saturation was increased slightly if you're using the HSV or HSL color system.

To show what I meant I tweaked the saturation on a picture I took through the scope a while back when I had a TT. The left photo is the unedited view through the TT where you can see all the colors are as flat and accurate as possible, and the right photo is a simulation of the difference I saw when checking out the ZCO. I exaggerated the effect a bit just to make sure that it was noticeable, the difference between these two pictures is 7.5% saturation and the visual difference between the two scopes is probably more like 3-5%.

Does this match up with what you were seeing @Gilly?

 

[koshkin]

If you plan on using a Spuhr mount or supporting your rifle on a barricade by grabbing the scope, I would avoid Tangent. I’ve seen Spuhr mounts cause parallax binding issues and has stayed they don’t recommend using the scope for support on barricades.

I've never had any issues using Aadmount with TT. Never used Spuhr.

As far as barricades and all, no scope company will recommend leaning against the scope on a barricade or anything like that. Some optics company reps say it makes no difference, but they tend to say it very quietly to avoid being assassinated by their own engineers.

ILya

 

[Dthomas3523]

Own both and run both.

I think everyone above has summarized it well.

I also find the theta to be *slightly* better with mirage. I prefer the tool less turrets of the theta as I run an AI and either swap barrels around or take barrels off to clean.

I prefer the mpct2 reticle. It’s more intuitive for things like moving targets. With the mpct2, I know where everything is intuitively. With the gen3xr, I find myself counting the hashes to double check.

I prefer the eyepiece/giant picture of the zcomp.

I like locking turrets, but not required.

My perfect scope would be theta glass/parallax, theta turrets, mpct2, zco eyepiece, and zco ergonomics.

 

[CSTactical]

I think it is awesome that two manufacturers we had not heard of 5 years ago have innovated and are now considered top of the hill products. Really a great achievement and a statement that the free market is a model that works.

OP, I think your decision comes down to reticle choice. And that is a decision only you can make based on your shooting style and how your brain works.

Good luck with your decision and let us know how it goes.

I agree!!!