Buying a .308 semi. What do I have to consider other than a SCAR 17?

[larcatdm]

I'm going to be buying one in early '24.

This will be a do-it-all rifle. Most pragmstic use is probably hog hunting, hopefully. Potentially deer as well. Definetly range fun. If we ever need to evac because of a storm, this rifle will come with me. I want a 16" barrel (or rather, not wanting to mess with a stamp on the rifle itself), and would like to get a suppressor most likely. Haven't begun that rabbit hole yet.

I spent some time with a SCAR 17 with the Geisselle trigger and really, really enjoyed it. Just fit me ergonomically well, I liked the recoil impulse, felt great in my hands. I shot it well, for me. That's my default choice. The silliness with F&N not wanting cans on them is a big turnoff, however.

I've screwed around with a couple B&T APC308s at a couple stores. They're obviously well put together but the ergonomics didn't feel as good as the SCAR, or maybe it was the balance --- Just didn't feel as natural in my hands. I don't think I'd get a chance to shoot one prior, either, so I think I've eliminated this as an option.

I haven't held or shot any of the higher end AR10s, but I wouldn't be adverse to that route. KAC would be out of the price range.

CZ afaik has no plans to being the 308 Bren 2 here.

Don't want a bullpup, so no Tavor.

Are there any guns I need to consider/put hands on?

 

[diverdon]

LMT MWS

Not quite KAC money plus solid and reliable.

 

[pmclaine]

Last Friday 300 yards....

LMT

20 rds 168 FGMM on a 4 inch circle.

 

[larcatdm]

That seems like acceptable accuracy

Thanks, I'll dive into the megathread that's stickied a bit.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Like they said above…the LMT MWS is what you’re lookin for.

I have an SSA-E trigger in mine and the thing is awesome, even with a 16” CL 308 barrel. 100yds sees groups 1.5”-0.3”, depending on how big of a POS I’m being that day …and the ammo.

 

[pmclaine]

5 shot LMT group at 100 yards with M118LR 16” chrome lined barrel.

 

[M8541Reaper]

5 shot LMT group at 100 yards with M118LR 16” chrome lined barrel.

View attachment 8286975

I can’t wait to see what the 20” SS 6.5CM barrel does this spring.

 

[pmclaine]

I can’t wait to see what the 20” SS 6.5CM barrel does this spring.

Besides the lisp and affectation for feather boas?

 

[Marine52]

GAP10 would be my choice for 308 semi.

GAP-10 G2

Super Accurate Semi-Auto-- Upper, Lower, and Handguard manufactured for us by Seekins Precision.

www.gaprecision.net

 

[M8541Reaper]

Besides the lisp and affectation for feather boas?

Totes like obvi for real

 

[gac700]

V Seven Harbinger 16” .308

 

[Cat pitch]

Colt Hbar Preban

 

[ScarlettRed]

I've put cans on all my scars. No issues. If you have a problem put the oem muzzle device back on and send it back. I am partial to my 18" chopped gen1 20s. Out to 1200 yards for targets and elk cows out to 300 makes it pretty versatile. Otherwise, I'd probably get an lmt mws. I love the mrp's.

 

[Ichi]

I have no personal experience, but I've read that the SCAR 17 is hard on optics. So that may be something to consider.

I have an LMT MWS in .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor. Happy with both, but I do not have a suppressor on it. The LMT MWS barrels do not ship with an adjustable gas block, so you are left with swapping buffers and springs to deal with over gassing. I've got a XH carbine buffer on mine. It helped a lot with the over gassing, but does add more reciprocating weight. A BRT EZTune gas tube is next on my list of experiments.

I've heard good things about the DD5M3. A friend of mine says that the recoil impulse is very good. Much better than that of the LMT MWS, especially when suppressed.

 

[frankxtc]

Suppressed SCAR works fine, ACOG seems to survive the recoil impulses OK.
I did put in a smaller gas jet, as the NOMAD Ti has substantial back-pressure.

 

[BCP]

If you like the Scar then just get one of those.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I wouldn’t buy another SCAR, I had multiple large and small frames and they always have POI shifts, never would those things consistently print two groups in the same place.

I also wouldn’t buy another MWS if I planned on shooting suppressed. Unsuppressed they are amazing rifles aside from the weight, very accurate even with the CL barrels. They are just ridiculously over gassed and suck to shoot suppressed.

I’d buy a Seekins or JP.

Just make sure you’re cool with a 13-16lbs rifle because that’s what it’s going to end up at with an optic, bipod, and can.

 

[JS8588]

Consider whether or not you really need a 308. For what you're asking it to do, a small frame in 6.5 Grendel or 6mm ARC will be as effective and easier to carry.

 

[hkguns]

I own a SCAR17 and it is a fine rifle that I will never sell. You absolutely need the trigger upgrade, mine is sporting a G-Trigger as well.

My MR762 is a better rifle and shoots far more accurately, but is heavier although the stock trigger is gtg out of the box.

The SIG Spear in 277 is next on MY list, followed by the LMT MARS-H.

So those are some I would hold as well.

 

[bigjake83]

If you're looking for a no thrills but extremely reliable and accurate 308 I would take a look at the Armalite National Match, you can find them usually for sale on GunBroker if not look at the Seekins SP10.

I would also reconsider the .308 and go 6.5CM, The Recoil impulse is much smoother and will out perform the .308 in every way. I have Creedmoor's is 18", 20", 22, and 24". The 22" is the sweet spot for LR and the 20" is the best do all out to 1000 yards.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

LMT, KAC, or HK

 

[Coffee_and_Pipes]

The Seekins SP10 is a really well made gun. It’s accurate and rock solid on a bench. If portability is high on the list, or you’ll be walking through a lot of brush, I think their 6.5 CM would carry like a musket. I like mine as a bench gun. Their 308 comes with an 18” barrel.

I also have a Wilson Combat Tactical Hunter with an 18” 308 barrel, and I really enjoy shooting it. I had to send it back to WC when I first got it because it had issues chambering the second round in a magazine. This was 175 gr FGMM loaded in M118LR PMags or KAC SR-25 magazines. They sent me a shipping label, had it a week or so, and sent it back. It’s been great since then. They run fixed gas blocks, and I think they have a couple different 16” 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor rifles.

I’m often think about getting another large frame AR, so consider that this might not be the only one you end up with. Sticking with SR-25 pattern magazines, I’m interested in an MWS next, but I’m curious to see how the Sig Spear and Geissele MRGG do once they’ve been out in the wild.

I only have one can, and it’s an OSS/Huxwrx HX-QD 762. I’ve only had it for a little bit, and I’ve only shot it on a 5.56, but I’ve enjoyed not having to tinker with the system to get it to run well. If tinkering is your thing, there are all sorts of cans to look at.

 

[hafejd30]

@Bart has a JP LRI 20 in the px. Used to be mine. Would be a perfect setup for hogs. At least that’s what I thought when I owned it. Sold it after realizing I don’t live anywhere near hogs

Firearms - JP LRI 308 side charger 3000 shipped

Hello all! Traded for the JP this summer, but I now realize that I am not a large frame AR fan! Absolutely not the gun, I am just a smaller dude, and enjoy the small frames so much more... Great shooter, sub moa, very smooth action, and really do see what the fuss is about, just not for me. I...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Asiparks]

MWS, POF Revolution or Robinson XCR- M.

MWS is stupid accurate but it's not light, POF is Stupid light and decently accurate and is a short stroke piston + adjustable gas.
The XCR I have in 556 and it's one of the best built, fun to shoot rifles I own. Long Stroke piston, monolithic upper like the LMT, adjustable gas. The 308 fingers crossed, the same...

 

[GUNNER10]

I'm going to be buying one in early '24.

This will be a do-it-all rifle. Most pragmstic use is probably hog hunting, hopefully. Potentially deer as well. Definetly range fun. If we ever need to evac because of a storm, this rifle will come with me. I want a 16" barrel (or rather, not wanting to mess with a stamp on the rifle itself), and would like to get a suppressor most likely. Haven't begun that rabbit hole yet.

I spent some time with a SCAR 17 with the Geisselle trigger and really, really enjoyed it. Just fit me ergonomically well, I liked the recoil impulse, felt great in my hands. I shot it well, for me. That's my default choice. The silliness with F&N not wanting cans on them is a big turnoff, however.

I've screwed around with a couple B&T APC308s at a couple stores. They're obviously well put together but the ergonomics didn't feel as good as the SCAR, or maybe it was the balance --- Just didn't feel as natural in my hands. I don't think I'd get a chance to shoot one prior, either, so I think I've eliminated this as an option.

I haven't held or shot any of the higher end AR10s, but I wouldn't be adverse to that route. KAC would be out of the price range.

CZ afaik has no plans to being the 308 Bren 2 here.

Don't want a bullpup, so no Tavor.

Are there any guns I need to consider/put hands on?

I have or have had 3 of the big 4, 308 gas guns and they are all really good guns. I currently have a couple LMT MWS's and a SR25 ACC, and sold my Scar 17 a year or so ago.

If this rifle is going to be a walkabout/hunting rifle, the Scar makes alot of sense. I would just be sure to get a low pressure can and have the jets modified prior to running the can.

Of those 3, if I had to choose, I would go with the LMT fairly easily. This is primarily based on it have the most factory support and allows it to be the most flexible of the big 4(LMT, KAC, FN, HK).

The Spear could be interesting, but, will probably lack spare parts for the next few years.

 

[larcatdm]

I've put cans on all my scars. No issues. If you have a problem put the oem muzzle device back on and send it back. I am partial to my 18" chopped gen1 20s. Out to 1200 yards for targets and elk cows out to 300 makes it pretty versatile. Otherwise, I'd probably get an lmt mws. I love the mrp's.

Thanks for the context here. Because of all the plugs above, I'm about a third of the way through that LMT megathread. Those rifles sound great, but heavy. Between that and the fixed buffer, more like a dedicated "DMR" rifle than a SCAR 17.

Any advice as to what suppressors have worked with your 17s?

 

[larcatdm]

I have no personal experience, but I've read that the SCAR 17 is hard on optics. So that may be something to consider.

Yeah --- I've gone down that rabbit hole before and it does sound like some people still have issues. The one I had experience with just had irons, so my buddy didn't have any personal experience with optic-eating or lack there of.

The LMT MWS barrels do not ship with an adjustable gas block, so you are left with swapping buffers and springs to deal with over gassing. I've got a XH carbine buffer on mine. It helped a lot with the over gassing, but does add more reciprocating weight. A BRT EZTune gas tube is next on my list of experiments.

I've heard good things about the DD5M3. A friend of mine says that the recoil impulse is very good. Much better than that of the LMT MWS, especially when suppressed.

Honest question --- being that they're similar pattern, why would the recoil impulse be that noticeably different?

 

[larcatdm]

If you like the Scar then just get one of those.

That wouldn't be over thinking it though

 

[Ichi]

Yeah --- I've gone down that rabbit hole before and it does sound like some people still have issues. The one I had experience with just had irons, so my buddy didn't have any personal experience with optic-eating or lack there of.


Honest question --- being that they're similar pattern, why would the recoil impulse be that noticeably different?

Looks like the DD5V3 uses a two position adjustable gas block and proprietary parts in the BCG to smooth out the recoil.

 

[larcatdm]

Consider whether or not you really need a 308. For what you're asking it to do, a small frame in 6.5 Grendel or 6mm ARC will be as effective and easier to carry.

If I'm being honest with myself it's highly unlikely it'll ever work time/cash wise, but I'd like whatever I buy to have the potential to "go out west" with whatever I end up getting. Bunch of folks over on rokslide that use 308 for mid range elk.

Good point about weight etc though, thank you.

 

[larcatdm]

I own a SCAR17 and it is a fine rifle that I will never sell. You absolutely need the trigger upgrade, mine is sporting a G-Trigger as well.

My MR762 is a better rifle and shoots far more accurately, but is heavier although the stock trigger is gtg out of the box.

The SIG Spear in 277 is next on MY list, followed by the LMT MARS-H.

So those are some I would hold as well.

There are two shops locally with Spears in 308. I should probably play with one. I sorta have just figured if I was gunna go that route, might as well go SCAR though, so haven't messed with them.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If I'm being honest with myself it's highly unlikely it'll ever work time/cash wise, but I'd like whatever I buy to have the potential to "go out west" with whatever I end up getting. Bunch of folks over on rokslide that use 308 for mid range elk.

Good point about weight etc though, thank you.

A heavy 308 battle rifle is not a good choice for western hunting. A light 223 or 6mm small frame wouldn’t be a bad choice however.

There’s also a huge thread on that site about people smoking large western game effectively with 223 as far as 500 yards.

 

[captain_toad]

Yeah --- I've gone down that rabbit hole before and it does sound like some people still have issues. The one I had experience with just had irons, so my buddy didn't have any personal experience with optic-eating or lack there of.


Honest question --- being that they're similar pattern, why would the recoil impulse be that noticeably different?

I have most of the .308 semiautos including the DD5V3 and two MWSes. AR-10s vary rather wildly in felt recoil, but the DD5V3 and MWS are quite similar to each other. The MWS does shoot a little bit softer and the DD5 a little more abruptly. With TA110s on both and the same length of pull, the DD5 will push the objective off the lip of my helmet sometimes where the MWS won't at all. Both recoil less than an SR-25 CC, which, to me, has a large, long, slow impulse comparatively. The SR-25 approach keeps you on the gun better than the DD, though.

Interestingly, when shooting both suppressed side by side using the same suppressor, the DD5 is not only louder, it's loudest AR-10 in my entire collection. Must be some combination of gassing/buffering/dwell timing and the way DD vents gas from the bolt carrier.

 

[JS8588]

If I'm being honest with myself it's highly unlikely it'll ever work time/cash wise, but I'd like whatever I buy to have the potential to "go out west" with whatever I end up getting. Bunch of folks over on rokslide that use 308 for mid range elk.

Good point about weight etc though, thank you.

Build an AR15 in 6.5 Grendel. Go research @LRRPF52's work. Save the $ you'd spend on an LMT, SCAR, or Spear, and use it on optics and ammo. If/when you go "out West", get yourself a bolt gun for Elk.

 

[BCP]

If I'm being honest with myself it's highly unlikely it'll ever work time/cash wise, but I'd like whatever I buy to have the potential to "go out west" with whatever I end up getting. Bunch of folks over on rokslide that use 308 for mid range elk.

Good point about weight etc though, thank you.

I live out west and wouldn't take a 308 for elk here because the shots are very long. A bolt gun in 30-06 or 300 win mag is much more common.

 

[notenoughpower]

I was on the same path as you and ended up with a Ruger SFAR. I know some people have had issues, I've heard rumors that they changed the gas regulator. I can't speak with authority on any of that, but my copy shoots great. I wanted .308 like you, ammo availability was a focal point for me. I have the 16" version, got it in the summer, and it has rapidly become my favorite rifle. Mine seems to like 180 gr Core Lokt, and shoots right around 1 moa. Lightweight and snappy, but low recoil. Had two deer on the run at about 75 yards that got one apiece. For the price, weight and portability I don't think it can be beat.

 

[Aftermath]

Semi-auto 308?
M1A?
L1A1?
CETME 58?

 

[larcatdm]

Looks like the DD5V3 uses a two position adjustable gas block and proprietary parts in the BCG to smooth out the recoil.

Thanks for the links, that's interesting.

 

[Gasgun]

Semi-auto 308?
M1A?
L1A1?
CETME 58?

No.

 

[larcatdm]

I have most of the .308 semiautos including the DD5V3 and two MWSes. AR-10s vary rather wildly in felt recoil, but the DD5V3 and MWS are quite similar to each other. The MWS does shoot a little bit softer and the DD5 a little more abruptly. With TA110s on both and the same length of pull, the DD5 will push the objective off the lip of my helmet sometimes where the MWS won't at all. Both recoil less than an SR-25 CC, which, to me, has a large, long, slow impulse comparatively. The SR-25 approach keeps you on the gun better than the DD, though.

Interestingly, when shooting both suppressed side by side using the same suppressor, the DD5 is not only louder, it's loudest AR-10 in my entire collection. Must be some combination of gassing/buffering/dwell timing and the way DD vents gas from the bolt carrier.

I have most of the .308 semiautos including the DD5V3 and two MWSes. AR-10s vary rather wildly in felt recoil, but the DD5V3 and MWS are quite similar to each other. The MWS does shoot a little bit softer and the DD5 a little more abruptly. With TA110s on both and the same length of pull, the DD5 will push the objective off the lip of my helmet sometimes where the MWS won't at all. Both recoil less than an SR-25 CC, which, to me, has a large, long, slow impulse comparatively. The SR-25 approach keeps you on the gun better than the DD, though.

Interestingly, when shooting both suppressed side by side using the same suppressor, the DD5 is not only louder, it's loudest AR-10 in my entire collection. Must be some combination of gassing/buffering/dwell timing and the way DD vents gas from the bolt carrier.

Thank you for the info here.

 

[larcatdm]

I was on the same path as you and ended up with a Ruger SFAR. I know some people have had issues, I've heard rumors that they changed the gas regulator. I can't speak with authority on any of that, but my copy shoots great. I wanted .308 like you, ammo availability was a focal point for me. I have the 16" version, got it in the summer, and it has rapidly become my favorite rifle. Mine seems to like 180 gr Core Lokt, and shoots right around 1 moa. Lightweight and snappy, but low recoil. Had two deer on the run at about 75 yards that got one apiece. For the price, weight and portability I don't think it can be beat.

Common ammo is my main reason for not looking at 6.5 as well.

I actually messed around with a 308 SFAR over the weekene at a local store and was pretty impressed especially for the price.

Was does snappy but low recoil mean?

 

[Jsp556]

Go to each mfg’s web site who’s product you’re considering and check parts availability. Then google that platform searching for parts. That should help make your decision. Fuck having to send a rifle back for end user level maintanence or repairs.

If your budget is under $2k, New or used Armalite all day. A and B series are good guns. Don’t be scared of the B series. Gen 2 B series mags are as good as any and are cheaper than scar, HK, KAC, and Larue. Armalite field repair kits are $60. Complete BCG’s are under $300. Armalite barrels are under $300 and shoot good.

If you have money to burn, get what you want.

Avoid shit tier guns. Shit tier AR15’s are bad. Shit tier large frames are even worse.

 

[Asiparks]

Robinson XCR M

 

[owtlaw]

Check out the Robinson XCR-M

 

[BCP]

if not the Scar then I’d want get an lmt with the quad rail for sex appeal. After that a Larue OBR/PREDATAR.

Seekins is also an excellent choice.

Cheaper ar10s I had a pair of 716i that ran 100% and handled well but accuracy was meh, 1.2moa was the absolute best and 2.5 was typical.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Robinson XCR M

I have a few XCR in 5.56. The one thing that takes them out of being my go to gun is the rubber piece on the bolt. I see that is also on the M version too. That rubber piece is flimsy. I haven't had any come off yet, but it doesn't inspire confidence. I have wanted a XCR M for a while. However, it would just be a range toy and I don't need another range toy.

 

[Jsp556]

if not the Scar then I’d want get an lmt with the quad rail for sex appeal. After that a Larue OBR/PREDATAR.

Seekins is also an excellent choice.

Cheaper ar10s I had a pair of 716i that ran 100% and handled well but accuracy was meh, 1.2moa was the absolute best and 2.5 was typical.

LMT for the win.

 

[Ape_Factory]

POF Revolution DI. Going to be much lighter than anything out there, equal to the VSeven stuff, the Ruger and the POF Rogue in terms of weight, and will run like a raped ape. The piston version is more front heavy though. Parts seem readily available. It's truly the size of an AR15. They're 6.7 pounds naked with an adjustable gas block (wide range of adjustment including off, plus really easy to adjust), billet ambi lower, fluted barrel and do really well especially if you hand load. They're making a 6 and 6.5mm Creedmoor version now too as well as .308 in 16.5 and 18.5" barrels (even 12.5" if you want to go short and loose even more weight). Been running mine since 2019 without a hiccup and it's my favorite to actually get behind and shoot.

 

[owtlaw]

I have a few XCR in 5.56. The one thing that takes them out of being my go to gun is the rubber piece on the bolt. I see that is also on the M version too. That rubber piece is flimsy. I haven't had any come off yet, but it doesn't inspire confidence. I have wanted a XCR M for a while. However, it would just be a range toy and I don't need another range toy.

I run an XCR in multigun competition. I have well over 10k rounds through my current one. No issues with it at all.

 

[Asiparks]

This piece ? I haven't even marked the flashing, it looks like a redundant, just-in-case bumper and I'd wager you could pull it and fire the gun without the back of the bolt contacting the back of the receiver.

The overall built on this rifle is so quality, that I'll trust that it's the right material, right dimensions and right place for it's intended use.
That's comparing it to my DD, LWRC, POFs and LMTs, Galils etc. Knowing anything can, at anytime, break and lemons are out there, I've shot this enough to still trust it 100%.
I have MWS, I love it, but it's for rested shooting, an older POF P308, flawless for about 12 years, but again, big.
My POF revolution- I've got the piston version- is the one I'd grab if I was wandering anywhere, it really is remarkably light and very comfortable to shoot, the lower is a masterpiece in AR ergos and it's been accurate & reliable.

token man cave pic..