Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

[sr15match]

OK, the title sort of explains it. No, this is not an LWRC verses KAC thread but a "which one would you buy and why" thread. I hate seeing the "this vs that" threads so lets not make it one of those.

Alrighty, back on track. I'm looking at the LWRC M6A2 w/14.7" barrel and the KAC SR15E3 IWS. I know it's not an apples to apples decision but they are priced the same and offer different features that make them unique & appealing to me for different reasons.

With your experiences which one would you choose and why? I prefer first hand feed back from owners and or regular users of the rifles selected.

The rifle will be a hobby shooter, weekend range rig, and SHTF go to tool. It won't see competitions or abuse from classes or treated like a trunk gun.

This gives you an idea of the intended use, just being honest and covering the bases before someone askes the usual questions in return when ever threads like this come up.

I am a fan of KAC and don't have a problem just buying the SR but I don't want to over look the LWRC.

Help me out folks!

 

[vipers28]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

I have the LWRC you listed and love it. Great rifle, accurate and easy to clean-if and when it needs it. It is a little heavier than some but I don't really mind it. I haven't had any issues with mine what so ever. It will spit out any ammo I have put in it. It can be a boring rifle and I mean that in a good way if you like to take it apart and clean it. It just runs very cleans and it is very easy to get at everything. Here is the but part... I love KAC products and have an SR15 E3 on order. I also have a SR15 match that is a great shooter as well. If you get a chance to handle them side by side. Or if ever in my part of the globe you can fell free to try mine.

 

[300WSM]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

get the m6a3 incase you ever get a can

 

[sr15match]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

This is a fair enough start.

Vipers28's post is helping me make a decision but it's still not settled. I know for the price point of nearly $2k there are more options for factory builds (like the Noveske Afghan) and trust me they are in the back of my mind. I'll take more time and will gladly accept more optinions before spending the money.

Selling my SR15 Match has been probably my single biggest regret when it comes to turning loose a firearm. That's part of the reason the IWS is on the short list.

This place is full of opinions, come on guys help me out.

Todd

 

[fairbanksr6]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

POF of any caliber. I know the rumors of the reliability but I think its a rare thing.

 

[StaffyBull]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

I have never dealt with KAC when it comes to customer service so I can't really say anything about that.

I do know LWRC has good customer service.

Not sure now but when the KAC IWS first came out you couldn't get a replacement bolt all that easily if at all. Since it uses a propriety bolt. Bit of a turn off there.

The URX needs a special wrench to remove the rail as well.

LWRC bit simpler to get replacement items and no special tools needed to work on it.

If you want to dump rounds of what ever the LWRC will need less cleaning time.

These are just nitpicking details. Since both guns are real nice.

 

[sr15match]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StaffyBull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never dealt with KAC when it comes to customer service so I can't really say anything about that.

I do know LWRC has good customer service.

Not sure now but when the KAC IWS first came out you couldn't get a replacement bolt all that easily if at all. Since it uses a propriety bolt. Bit of a turn off there.

The URX needs a special wrench to remove the rail as well.

LWRC bit simpler to get replacement items and no special tools needed to work on it.

If you want to dump rounds of what ever the LWRC will need less cleaning time.

These are just nitpicking details. Since both guns are real nice.

</div></div>

I 100% understand the KAC nitpicking that might put someone off. Yes the bolt / barrel extension situation keeps a customer in KAC's home court but "spares kits" are available. That doesn't take away from the nagging thought in the back on ones mind that a barrel replacement would either mean a trip back to KAC or dump the E3 bolt / barrel extension design and go back standard. But to be honest, has anyone seen an E3 bolt break in the SR15 or SR16? Secondly, yes the special wrench & vise block to take off the URX / barrel nut is another consideration. But for me when looking at or choosing any system like this or the LWRC I probably won't be digging in any deeper than the BCG and lower receiver. Anything forward of that on the KAC is someone elses job and on the LWRC only occasional cleaning would be done. I do't see myself shooting out a barrel either.

All of the above mentioned thought are valid that's for sure and are in consideration.

KAC customer service is OK in my book. I had an issue with my Match and they were on it like white on rice but............. like all good things it took time for the repair. If I recall correctly a couple months. Trey called the house to discuss the issue, handled the RMA, and saw that it was completed as I had asked for a couple changes(they coated the barrel black and I opted to not use the original "chrome" BCG). They ended up replacing the upper receiver and BCG. After that it shot fine but the fit of the upper / lower wasn't any where near as good as it was when new.

More opinions?

Todd

 

[Oddball Six]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

Having gone through this exact decision making process myself recently, hopefully you will find some of my own thinking useful as well

If not, well its worth what you paid...

So the thing is... let your use for the rifle drive your decision making process.

In the shoutbox you were saying around $2k. Your needs are pretty basic here, and I am interested as to why you ended up at LWRC and KAC but between the two, I would go LWRC.

More importantly, I think you may be cutting out other options that might really serve your needs well. Noveske, namely. Stick with a DI gun. It is not going to be run hard, no POI shift from barrel pressure, and Noveske is one of the best out there with models squarely in your price range. Other key points for your consideration, they come with high quality parts throughout, proprietary non-standard assemblies are at a minimum, and you will recieve extras like the noveske barrel which many custom homebrews use for its excellent reputation for accuracy, iron sights, etc.

 

[sr15match]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

Alrighty. After some good chat with you guys in the Shout Box and more consideration I am going to take a step back "again" and re-think my approach to the this whole mess.

Some very good points were brought up and reminders of things that I had kind of ignored previous to the original post.

Feel free to continue to post your experience with original 2 makers but I think I'm going to hear the things over and over. I'm glad I have time on my hands to try and get to the bottom of this. Once a decision had been made I'll post it.

Thanks guys!

 

[chainring]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

LWRC, for the quality, reliability, and ease of cleaning and CS. Never been exposed to KAC, so I can't comment on them, but I know LWRC is excellent. My A3 has been nearly 100% suppressed and runs like a raped ape. I think I cleaned it in April of last year, right before the Larue match! If you haven't seen it, you might check out the new LWRC SPR that is about to be available this month or next. It's the grail.

 

[chainring]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having gone through this exact decision making process myself recently, hopefully you will find some of my own thinking useful as well

If not, well its worth what you paid...

So the thing is... let your use for the rifle drive your decision making process.

In the shoutbox you were saying around $2k. Your needs are pretty basic here, and I am interested as to why you ended up at LWRC and KAC but between the two, I would go LWRC.

More importantly, I think you may be cutting out other options that might really serve your needs well. Noveske, namely. Stick with a DI gun. It is not going to be run hard, no POI shift from barrel pressure, and Noveske is one of the best out there with models squarely in your price range. Other key points for your consideration, they come with high quality parts throughout, proprietary non-standard assemblies are at a minimum, and you will recieve extras like the noveske barrel which many custom homebrews use for its excellent reputation for accuracy, iron sights, etc. </div></div>


My LWRC doesn't run hard, but I'm not sure if it has POI shift from barrel pressure - 'cause I'm not sure what you mean by that?

It's MOA, and that's enough for my purposes.

That having been said, Noveske makes the best DI on the planet as far as I'm concered. I've had several from John, and love them. I just hate cleaning, and the piston makes that less of a chore because the carbon isn't baked onto everything. Suppressed still gets really dirty, but it's just easier to clean off.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

If its going to be safe jewelry get whatever's prettiest and makes you feel good.

If its going to be a SHTF option as you said, you better get it out in the dirt and run it hard or you obviously have a narrow grasp of what a SHTF gun needs to be,

If you are buying it as a tool, decide the application and pick the best tool for the job.

Arfcom is full of opinions from the guru's, Here you'll find advice on what works.

I'd say if you are going to run it suppressed, go pistom-if not go DI, but it doesn't sound like its gonna get ran hard so just get whatever makes you happy.

 

[sr15match]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If its going to be safe jewelry get whatever's prettiest and makes you feel good.

If its going to be a SHTF option as you said, you better get it out in the dirt and run it hard or you obviously have a narrow grasp of what a SHTF gun needs to be,

If you are buying it as a tool, decide the application and pick the best tool for the job.

Arfcom is full of opinions from the guru's, Here you'll find advice on what works.

I'd say if you are going to run it suppressed, go pistom-if not go DI, but it doesn't sound like its gonna get ran hard so just get whatever makes you happy.
</div></div>

Sobrbiker883,

This is exactly why I asked the questions and presented my situation here. I thought I had it narrowed but like I said in my last post since chatting with some good folks in the Shout Box some details were brought to light. Like anything else a second set of eyes, differing opinions and or experiences will bring more details to light.

I appreciate the straight forward question and comments more than anything, that's what is helping me make the most educated decision. Just like constructive criticism, it works no matter how much some hate it. I am the first to admit I have a lot to learn about a lot of subjects but I feel I'm in the right place to ask the right question and get the right advice.

Unfortunately the truth is that the rifle will see a lot of idle / safe time. I am gone from home so many months out of the year that when I am home range time is near the top of the list of things to do. Whatever I buy I want to run when I ask it to and not have to think twice about it. I don't own a collection or dozens of guns like some folks on here or buy and sell them like they change underwear so what I do spend money on has to be well thought out and work. No safe jewelry though.


As far as the LWRC M6A2SPR Mod 0 is concerned, I saw it on Knesekes page and it's a real looker but I'm just not sure it's what I'm looking for. Maybe it's a bit much and is offering a few options that I just don't need. Like the KAC SR15E3 Magpul Edition, that is full "cool points" and options but it's just too much going on in one package for me besides the $3k price-tag.

 

[chainring]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

You're shopping in the wrong place!

The SPR should be around $2300. Talk to Matt at Northwest Tactical.

Really not a whole lot going on with it other than making the forend more ergonomic, the barrel lighter, and using a midlength gas system - other than that it's just like the A2! Which makes it a good system with a couple improvements.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

Thank you for your service, by the way.

 

[LRS_Ranger]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

I can weigh in on the LWRC. It's been a bit over 2 years that I have had it, and it's seen all kinds of crap, from bottom barrel steel to hot handloads, match grade, cheap reloads, green tip etc. Not one malfunction that I can remember. It runs every mag I have ever tried. I've shot it in the pouring rain, dropped it in mud puddles, ran it dry, wet and pretty much done all kinds of things to try and make it crap the bed. No luck. So if you are looking for all out reliability, I would go LWRC.

In the time since I bought it, I've become a little more interested in shooting AR's for accuracy. (Got a .264 LBC build from SAC in the mail.. come on, fed ex!) I've read that a few people were getting pretty crummy accuracy out of the LWRC M6, along the lines of 3-6 MOA. I don't know if those were initial production runs, but mine shoots fine, and I haven't seen any negative reports for a while. With match and handloads, I'm around 1-2 MOA, and with surplus, around 2-4MOA, which in my opinion is fine for a working carbine.

What I plan to do next is to hack the barrel off to 11 inches or so and add a suppressor. It seems to me that the piston design really shines in a SBR and with a suppressor, and that would be a good practical rifle. When I get another rifle with a 16 inch barrel, it's going to be built for accuracy.

In summary, it's a really good rifle that, unless you are going for extreme accuracy, will do pretty much anything. Plus, you don't have to clean it! (I just had to throw it in there... )

 

[samnev]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

Before I'd make any decision I suggest looking into the Noveske line of AR's IMO they can't be beat.

 

[JJBMD]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

I started with a LWRC M6A2 (16") and have since acquired a Noveske Recon with VIS / Switchblock. The LWRC is a cool looking gun and runs extremely clean. The quality of the build is good (mostly) but the lower and upper joint is no where as tight as the Noveske. The LWRC accuracy is questionable in my mind. Using 55g I struggle to keep it under 2.5". If I use a heavier round like 77g I can get sub 1". I know most will say that that's just fine for a battle gun but if my SA-80 had run that wide when I was in the Infantry I'd have got the armourer to look it over.

The Noveske is a pleasure to shoot in terms of accuracy. I've got sub 0.5" when I'm concentrating and consistently under 1". Bullet weight doesn't seem to affect it either. The quality of the build is top notch. The gun is just tight.

I've since bought a N6 and a 6.8spc. I cannot say enough good tings about this manufacturer.

Finally customer service at Noveske is a pleasure. LWRC was "abrupt", to put it politely.

 

[samnev]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.


Quote
The Noveske is a pleasure to shoot in terms of accuracy. I've got sub 0.5" when I'm concentrating and consistently under 1". Bullet weight doesn't seem to affect it either. The quality of the build is top notch. The gun is just tight.
Finally customer service at Noveske is a pleasure.

+1

 

[Downrange1x]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

Noveske!! I own 7 different AR platforms and 3 of them now are Noveske's . After the first 18" spr none of the other companies kit matched up. Now there is a 10.5 sbr 6.8spc and a 12.5"sbr 5.56 Afghan resting beside the first one . The others are all up for sale.May be used to fund a new Noveske N6/308.

 

[sr15match]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

It's looking like Noveske is at the top of most peoples lists.

My whole idea of doing and getting this done in a few days has turned into a mess. More things to consider and re-think a few things.

I'll have it settled soon.

 

[Lochem158]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

I have the Noveske Ar-10 and love it.... Check out Rainier Arms.com I just built a 223 upper to my spec and they did an awesome job. They will build you exactly what you want... Noveske barrel, DD rail, BCM charging handle ect.

 

[K_4c]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

Noveskes are a quality piece of kit and are at the top of my list for a DI.... Although, after owning an M6A2 and recently picking up a M6A3....I couldn't be more impressed. Chews through anything I feed it and is breeze to clean. I don't b.s about sub moa groups with an assault rifle (which I know is quite possible) but i added this type of weapon platform to my arsenal to run and gun. So I prefer a set up that doesn't shit where it eats... Functionality is key and LWRC's do this quite well. My 2 cents bud

 

[sr15match]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

With the re-org of priorities and getting to the bottom of my process I have explored the option of just building my own. I've surfed the host of vendors out there putting information into a spreadsheet comparing prices and it's a draw at times. For what I could piece together an upper to my spec it's right on the heals of a good factory build.

Clock is ticking, purchase time is closing in!

 

[Silverbullet2]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

KAC SR-15 son!

 

[RUTGERS95]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJBMD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I started with a LWRC M6A2 (16") and have since acquired a Noveske Recon with VIS / Switchblock. The LWRC is a cool looking gun and runs extremely clean. The quality of the build is good (mostly) but the lower and upper joint is no where as tight as the Noveske. The LWRC accuracy is questionable in my mind. Using 55g I struggle to keep it under 2.5". If I use a heavier round like 77g I can get sub 1". I know most will say that that's just fine for a battle gun but if my SA-80 had run that wide when I was in the Infantry I'd have got the armourer to look it over.

The Noveske is a pleasure to shoot in terms of accuracy. I've got sub 0.5" when I'm concentrating and consistently under 1". Bullet weight doesn't seem to affect it either. The quality of the build is top notch. The gun is just tight.

I've since bought a N6 and a 6.8spc. I cannot say enough good tings about this manufacturer.

Finally customer service at Noveske is a pleasure. LWRC was "abrupt", to put it politely.
</div></div>

you should have contacted darren and sent it back, sounds like you got a lemon

 

[justinlemieux]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

I have had damn near ever ar there is, piston and DI, Ive also spent alot of thime with m16 a2 and a3's. heres what ive come up with. A good FA BCG, A good trigger, and a noveske barrel is all you need. I had a krieger 1/7.7 twist barrel that out performed the noveske with heavy gr ammo. but the noveske even shot 55gr white box great

 

[sr15match]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

OK, here is how things are playing out for the moment. Since asking my initial question I have received a lot of suggestions and feedback. Everything has been shuffled and put in order, well sort of.

I've gone the route of LMT (14.5"bbl with FF rail and LMT BUIS, no optics)for for the moment but am still on the path the pick up an LWRC (M6A2 14.7") or Noveske (Afghan). I've come across a couple of LWRC rifles that have my undivided attention (and a dealer that can hold it until I come back from downrange) but so many folks still say Noveske. I have time and don't "need" to buy right now but it is going to be happening soon.

As things pan out I'll post the results.

 

[kchu02]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

I'm currently running a BCM 16" 1-8twist RECCE mid length with a full BCM lower. Got everything with BCM gunfighter and BCM full auto BCG for around 1500. Extremely accurate, haven't got enough rounds through it to consider reliability, but from what I have heard BCM has extremely good quality. They also have lifetime warranty. Running this rig with a SB short dot.

Kevin

 

[Tact999]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

I have an LWRC 14.7 with an RCO ACOG, and will most likely never part with her. It is nice, runs clean and fairly accurate for a combat rifle. I admit I jumped on the gas piston band wagon during the initial craze and have since altered my thinking and have aligned myself with a preference towards DI. Keep in mind though that not every GP is made the same either as quality and customer service do vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. However, given the extra grand you pay with a piston you have to ask yourself is the payoff worth it (harmonics, added weight, some carrier tilt, more moving parts, etc.) The only real drawback to DI is that it gets dirty...oh well. We were always taught weapons maintenance to be just as important as marksmanship, so cleaning to me is no big deal. I was deployed, like so many others here, doing time in both Ramadi and Fallujah and my DI M4 worked just fine without a hitch in both shit holes. There are countless reports like Pat Rogers' BCM DI rifle with over 15,000 rounds without a malfunction and only lube. In any case, think about what works for you and what exactly you want out of the rifle and what you want it for. There are of course good and bad reports from both sides of the aisle, but I really think Eugene Stoner had it right all along. Good luck with your new purchase either way and happy shooting. Tell us what you decide and let us know how she shoots.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

I'd have Scott at Specialized Dynamics build me a solid rifle rather than getting a fanboi special.

 

[JJBMD]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

I did send it back to LWRC shortly after getting it. They shot a ~1.75" group with 77g Black hills ammo and sent the target and rifle back to me saying it met requirements.... which I guess it did as they promise 2" and under. I think LWRC made a decision to focus on a very reliable battle rifle and not sweat 1 MOA vs 2 MOA which makes a lot of sense. Having used operationally the 1st generation of the SA-80 and always had the nagging doubt about jams I have a lot of sympathy.

I don't want to get to much into the DI vs Piston or LWRC vs Noveske debate. Its like blonds vs. brunettes.

The LWRC is an fun gun, looks great and runs incredible clean. I just get my kicks out of accuracy and Noveske delivers that.... but I'm not selling my LWRC either!

You have to pick what works for you. Neither are bad and I don't think any of the suggestions on this thread are bad but I only have experience personally with the two AR15's I've discussed.

 

[nf9648]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

I own a SR15E3 and a M6A2, of the two I prefer the KAC. I have even ruled out future LWRC purchases in favor of another full length SR15 and a SR15 SBR. LWRC does a lot of great things, but making a 16" carbine under 7 lbs dry isnt one of them. Thw SR15 is by far the most handy, comfortable, versatile AR I own; easily the best all around out-of-the-box AR on the market today. The only downside I can see to the KAC (and another for the LWRC for that matter) is the proprietary parts (bolt and barrel extension.) Unless youre looking for a Recce style precision build, Noveske doesnt come close to the KAC value wise.

 

[christian77]

Re: Buying another AR15 platform, LWRC or KAC, help.

Put a build together yourself and handpick the parts IMO...my favorite ARs are ones that I have built and I honestly don't think it's rocket-science assembling one.

You'll probably take more pride in it, save money at the end of the day if you do your due-diligence shopping and you'll get all the features that YOU want.