"No lock down gun vises!! Sandbags are ok, bipods are ok, monopods are ok.... If you are using a vise, then you are not really shooting the damn rifle and a monkey can shoot the rifle for you."
Is it me, or is this H sand bag an ethical grey area given the rules of the shoot out?
that is a good point.
its pushing it but it is still a sandbag, but just on steroids........ You still need to drive the semi-auto as it's not totally locked into place & not adjusted with an elevation bar / spin knob..... breathing, heartbeat, & for the fact you need to re-set & drive the rifle after each shot is really no different than a bipod. Really, it's no different than a bipod other than maybe bipod jump.... It is hard to explain unless you've used this particular type of front bag. Really, it is no different IMO than a bipod other than helping with what I call "bipod jump" for developing your loads & testing your rifle to it's maximum.. Yes, if you want to test your self & rifle in a more realistic manner, then use the bipod and especially without the bipod. But for me testing loads or the full potential of my rifle to see what she can do, then yes... The bag is a great tool... That's all it is, an optional tool. As stated in the very first sentence of my OP, I'm not ditching the BIPOD and maybe some people are B-lining it from the title to response without actually reading the OP. Put it this way, as in the OP, I was testing 55grn VMAX's out of my rifle for the first time. 99 out of 100rounds were all sub-moa with 19 out of 20 5shot groups was sub-moa..... that type of stuff doesn't happen often and is hard enough to get sub-moa all day long with the shootout threads with only 6groups, let alone 19groups.... As stated in the OP, I was testing the full potential of the AMMO in question, along with the new rifle I just purchased this month. Once I get something locked down, then by all means....... I will be using my bipod as I love the feel & purpose of a bipod. Put it this way... I own all AR's & when it comes to testing my AR rifle's full potential & the ammo being reloaded full potential, I'm not going to strap a 20" LMT MWS into a bench rest vise.. As for myself, not you or anyone else, I like the feel of this bag when doing such tests as it still allows me to drive the rifle. It is hard to explain unless you've actually used the bag. To put an AR in a vise or actual bench rest rig, IMO is kinda silly, BUT that is just me.. Not saying you can't do it. Everyone is different. Whatever works best for you type of thing.
The main purpose of the shootout threads about 1 year ago, actually, was to simply shut those up that state on a non-stop basis "I shoot .5moa ALL DAY LONG".... hence the reason for the crown title and it's name. That's it... It's more to show off your rifle first and how "bad ass your rifle can be" as everyone likes to brag about, with a little bit of your own potential mixed in for fun. Like I've always stated before about 100yard group shooting, it is 40%rifle, 40%shooter, and 20% ammo... the further you shoot past 100yards, the more the shooter% increases IMO with factors like wind and mirage come into play & where art and science come together in the middle.
I never thought so many people could take such a thread in the wrong direction.... Especially when I show picture proof evidence of what is possible with your rifle's potential.. Not your potential.. I think I've posted enough kick ass groups with pics using a bipod that I don't need to justify my own personal potential...
This is only a tool for testing reloads & the rifle's potential peps. Do what you want, this is what I'm doing. If you find this info helpful, then so be it. This might sound crazy & I understand many people think my methods as a RECREATIONAL SHOOTER are crazy, but if you want to put a 20lbs sack of sand under your rifle, & 20lbs sack of sand over your rifle for the shootout threads to show your rifle's potential,,, then do it... I set those rules over 1year ago. Sand bags are cool.
Heck, heydogman is number1 on the shootout threads... I'm cool with this pic below 100%. Does it follow the rules of the shootout thread? Yes. Is he being ultra smart about getting the most out of his rifle while working with the rules? Hell yes!!..... he has an actual benchrest plate on a sand bag with baby powder. Is this OK? I'm fine with it as he is still somewhat driving the rifle with his own potential to a particular degree, but is really showing the rifle's potential more than anything by being really really smart about it hence = his groups are a hell of a lot better than mine.... Hence the reason why he is #1 and I am not.... That is just what heydogman does, and not what I do personally and my hat is off to heydogman. His experience & knowing what to do is why he is #1 and if you think you can do better, then I more than welcome you to join the shootout threads... Then again, I do hold #1 with best group at .179 WITH A BIPOD.... What is nice about starting your own thread is you can develop the rules which was done well over 1year ago:
Got a hold of some 6.5 100 grain Berger match bullets which are discontinued.Worked up charges from 41 to 42.6 of !MR 4007.If I had stopped at 42.3 would of been a great average..110 away from the lands and wind changing from west,south and back to west I didn't expect much.
The little bullet shot great and recoil was so light the rifle tracked perfect in the bags,until the last group.
The .180 group can go a couple thous each way but this is the best average.
heydogman 1Sept.
LR 6.5 creedmoor
Sightron S2 24x
Berger 100g match
IMR 4007ssc
Norma .243 brass to 6.5CM
Tula LR Mag primer
Front and rear bags
.514-.568-.417-.452-.180-.904 =.506 average
[/URL][/img]
[/URL][/img]
[/URL][/img]
Yes, you can use a bipod, but it must be on during the entire shootout for use during the 100yard section. You can NOT miss a single bullet off paper during the entire test or you need to start over. Read the rules. It's not all about making bug-holes. 
