Caliber Choices - Comparison and Applications

[Fig]

I don’t begrudge anyone who likes it and wants to shoot it, but I don’t feel like it will do anything I can’t do with a 300WM and 230 Hybrids.
if you’re handloading anyway go for it. If it’s a hunting rifle on the other hand it’s nice to be able to get common ammo for it.

 

[Boltyboi]

Im in a bit of a conundrum. I currently have a t1x in .22, a t3x varmnit in .223, and a riced out 783 in .308.

That leaves me with one .22lr trainer and general 4 wheeler gun. No need to explain the many merits of a precision .22 around these parts.

I also have a .223 that is easy on the barrel, sufficient for white tails in Central Texas, and can flex from light squirel detonators out to 80some grain longer range rounds. My primary range only goes out to 600 without a serious drive, so that round just made sense to me.

I also have the remington in .308 which serves the general purpose of "it needs more killing than a .223, and I also want to carry it further than the deer blind".

My plan longer term is to get a .308 bolt face for the tikka, and do a wrench flat swap barrel rig. The question is what round. I intend to shoot most of my volume centerfire shooting out if the .223, so barrel life isn't such a concern.

Im somewhat torn between going with a fast 6mm, or stepping up to a 6.5 prc, 6.5 saum, etc. (Im not married to the .308 bolt face/willing to eventualy also have a magnum).

If you already have a
308, .223, and .22, would you stay with a typical. 308 class round or bump it up to a short action magnum?

Thanks

 

[sandwarrior]

Im in a bit of a conundrum. I currently have a t1x in .22, a t3x varmnit in .223, and a riced out 783 in .308.

That leaves me with one .22lr trainer and general 4 wheeler gun. No need to explain the many merits of a precision .22 around these parts.

I also have a .223 that is easy on the barrel, sufficient for white tails in Central Texas, and can flex from light squirel detonators out to 80some grain longer range rounds. My primary range only goes out to 600 without a serious drive, so that round just made sense to me.

I also have the remington in .308 which serves the general purpose of "it needs more killing than a .223, and I also want to carry it further than the deer blind".

My plan longer term is to get a .308 bolt face for the tikka, and do a wrench flat swap barrel rig. The question is what round. I intend to shoot most of my volume centerfire shooting out if the .223, so barrel life isn't such a concern.

Im somewhat torn between going with a fast 6mm, or stepping up to a 6.5 prc, 6.5 saum, etc. (Im not married to the .308 bolt face/willing to eventualy also have a magnum).

If you already have a
308, .223, and .22, would you stay with a typical. 308 class round or bump it up to a short action magnum?

Thanks

No need to try for a magnum in this case. Even though it sounds like you might want to reach out farther.

I'd do the "bullet efficient" thing and go with a 6mm, 6.5mm or 7mm. I'm not familiar with the Tikka actions so assuming you would also have to change magazine set-up to accommodate said new cartridge.

That said, magazine pending, a .243/6mm Creed, .260/6.5 Creed or 7mm-08 would probably be the easiest. If you don't have enough length for those, then look at a variant of the BR in 6mm (BRA, Dasher), 6.5mm or 7mm (where it all started).

For a slight reduction in length, but remaining 'full power' sized case, a 6mmXC case could be used. Again, it all depends on what you can fit in the Tikka lengthwise, and what magazine system you can change to. You might consider having a second stock for the Tikka all set up for the bigger cartridge and switch back to the .223 stock when you shoot that.

I will note, however, with all the changes you are considering, a second rifle may be the easier way to go.

 

[Boltyboi]

No need to try for a magnum in this case. Even though it sounds like you might want to reach out farther.

I'd do the "bullet efficient" thing and go with a 6mm, 6.5mm or 7mm. I'm not familiar with the Tikka actions so assuming you would also have to change magazine set-up to accommodate said new cartridge.

That said, magazine pending, a .243/6mm Creed, .260/6.5 Creed or 7mm-08 would probably be the easiest. If you don't have enough length for those, then look at a variant of the BR in 6mm (BRA, Dasher), 6.5mm or 7mm (where it all started).

For a slight reduction in length, but remaining 'full power' sized case, a 6mmXC case could be used. Again, it all depends on what you can fit in the Tikka lengthwise, and what magazine system you can change to. You might consider having a second stock for the Tikka all set up for the bigger cartridge and switch back to the .223 stock when you shoot that.

I will note, however, with all the changes you are considering, a second rifle may be the easier way to go.

Im not willing to go to a LA stock, becuase at that point, I'd just build a second rifle. Also, tikkas are basicaly long medium actions.

Im leaning pretty hard on a long 6cm barrel. Then eventualy a 7saum if i really want to go long/vaporize a hog.

For what it's worth, I'm still a student, so I can't just make all my long range dreams a reality yet. Duplicating an action and scope and all the associated tertiary parts is a significant barrier.

 

[Old Dude]

Anybody build a wildcat out of 416 Remmy Magnum brass? I got given a bunch of brass and bullets. I dont want a 416 but a 408/416 or 375/416 might be something fun to shoot.

 

[OATHDYNASTY608]

Great info. I think that seals the deal for me on 300 WM vs 338 Lapua.

what did you decide?

 

[onion]

what did you decide?

I had decided 338 Lapua but ended up buying an AW in 308 for a good price. Still want an AWSM but that'll be in a year or two.

 

[Skillett]

Being 55 and wishing I had 30 years of your knowledge as I get into this is where I’m at. That being said, I not only enjoyed reading it but found it useful as well. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

 

[sandwarrior]

Being 55 and wishing I had 30 years of your knowledge as I get into this is where I’m at. That being said, I not only enjoyed reading it but found it useful as well. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

What kind of knowledge do you seek? It's out there. Sometimes wading through the many viewpoints is tough to do for finding out what YOU want to do with a firearm. Again, it's out there.

I have to say I appreciate most all firearms enthusiasts, but (myself included) when you get advice from someone, they often, even unknowingly, push you to their perspective instead of teaching. Keep focused on what you want. And, sometimes yeah, you'll make or get a direct copy of what someone has shown you. Don't feel bad about going either way. Sometimes you'll get what you don't really want then you have to decide how to change it.

 

[Chickentoast]

1. Select bullet(s)
2. Decide how fast to run said bullet(s)
3. Choose from list of cartridges that achieve goal

 

[sandwarrior]

Select GOAL first.

1. Select bullet(s)
2. Decide how fast to run said bullet(s)
3. Choose from list of cartridges that achieve goal

 

[Lazyninja]

Re: Caliber Choices - Comparison and Applications

I have been in the same boat lately. I've got a .308 but want something flatter. With all things considered I chose the .260. I had thought about everything from the .243, 6.5x47 Lapua, to the 7mm-08...to the 6.5-284. I actually was pretty close to cloosing the 6.5-284 but barrel life is retarded short. So .260 it was.

The .243 has good brass choices better than let's say...260 rem., but the barrel life in a .260 is better I like the higher BCs of the .260. Hope this help

lol sorry

 

[LeftyJason]

6.5 creedmoor no question, unless you are a serious competitor then 6mm of some flavor

I think he's decided after 10.5 years. It's a good idea to look when somebody posted something.

 

[R700P308]

Read through this and it's very helpful, but I still have a question on caliber AVAILABILITY in crisis/SHTF.

I'm deciding on 308 vs 6.5CM for a crossover rifle; a Tikka CTR to be exact. The 6.5CM is clearly ballistically superior beyond 500yds, but I'm concerned that in a prolonged ammo crisis like we're experiencing, or a larger SHTF situation, 6.5CM just isn't going to be as available as 308. I'm not talking on the shelves—nothing will be on the shelf in SHTF—but among the population for trades, person-to-person purchases, etc. A friend of mine says that more people have 6.5CM in their safes than 308 now and it's a better SHTF round, but I have a hard time believing ten years of 6.5CM has erased 50+ years of 308 dominance.

This is a factor for me because for where I live and the distances I'll *regularly* be able to shoot at, the two cartridges are pretty much a tossup.

Thoughts?

 

[sandwarrior]

Read through this and it's very helpful, but I still have a question on caliber AVAILABILITY in crisis/SHTF.

I'm deciding on 308 vs 6.5CM for a crossover rifle; a Tikka CTR to be exact. The 6.5CM is clearly ballistically superior beyond 500yds, but I'm concerned that in a prolonged ammo crisis like we're experiencing, or a larger SHTF situation, 6.5CM just isn't going to be as available as 308. I'm not talking on the shelves—nothing will be on the shelf in SHTF—but among the population for trades, person-to-person purchases, etc. A friend of mine says that more people have 6.5CM in their safes than 308 now and it's a better SHTF round, but I have a hard time believing ten years of 6.5CM has erased 50+ years of 308 dominance.

This is a factor for me because for where I live and the distances I'll *regularly* be able to shoot at, the two cartridges are pretty much a tossup.

Thoughts?

In all the recent crises .308 was the first thing gone. Don't bet on it being back first either. However, 6.5CM is up there in popularity now to the point, it'll be gone too.

FWIW, I live in a somewhat isolated area in the UP of Michigan and pretty much MOST ammunition is gone. .270, which never suffered before, is OUT. So, what I would do is go to your retail source and see what is out there. Decide accordingly. If there is .270 out in the wild in the big world, the pandemic is not that bad maybe?

This is the hard lesson that anyone who has gone through an ammo shortage of one kind or another knows to stock up on what you have. Choose a caliber according to it's ability and get those components. It's a crapshoot trying to decide on a particular cartridge based on availability.

 

[Steel head]

In all the recent crises .308 was the first thing gone. Don't bet on it being back first either. However, 6.5CM is up there in popularity now to the point, it'll be gone too.

FWIW, I live in a somewhat isolated area in the UP of Michigan and pretty much MOST ammunition is gone. .270, which never suffered before, is OUT. So, what I would do is go to your retail source and see what is out there. Decide accordingly. If there is .270 out in the wild in the big world, the pandemic is not that bad maybe?

This is the hard lesson that anyone who has gone through an ammo shortage of one kind or another knows to stock up on what you have. Choose a caliber according to it's ability and get those components. It's a crapshoot trying to decide on a particular cartridge based on availability.

In the previous crunches 308 also disappeared well before common hunter ammo.
6.5 CM is basically as popular as 308 now and same issues.
Interestingly a lot of 260 milfington was on the shelf the other day.

 

[sandwarrior]

In the previous crunches 308 also disappeared well before common hunter ammo.
6.5 CM is basically as popular as 308 now and same issues.
Interestingly a lot of 260 milfington was on the shelf the other day.

He said 'milfington'. Does that mean you get a 'milf' when you go out and shoot .260? I'm in.

You can't bet on availability. You gotta get what you need when you can.

 

[Steel head]

He said 'milfington'. Does that mean you get a 'milf' when you go out and shoot .260? I'm in.

You can't bet on availability. You gotta get what you need when you can.

Since Remington is dead and they abandoned it I gave it an appropriate name.

 

[R700P308]

In all the recent crises .308 was the first thing gone. Don't bet on it being back first either. However, 6.5CM is up there in popularity now to the point, it'll be gone too.

FWIW, I live in a somewhat isolated area in the UP of Michigan and pretty much MOST ammunition is gone. .270, which never suffered before, is OUT. So, what I would do is go to your retail source and see what is out there. Decide accordingly. If there is .270 out in the wild in the big world, the pandemic is not that bad maybe?

This is the hard lesson that anyone who has gone through an ammo shortage of one kind or another knows to stock up on what you have. Choose a caliber according to it's ability and get those components. It's a crapshoot trying to decide on a particular cartridge based on availability.

That's fair and realistic.

I'm also thinking SHTF though, not just shortages. Taking retail out of the picture, I can't imagine that 6.5CM is going to be more available among the armed citizenry than 308. For one, 308 has surplus options that 6.5 doesn't (yeah, I know it's not optimal but it's better than having nothing to shoot).

 

[samnev]

Great discussion, lots of very valuable info.

 

[kmdn_crew]

Sad times when you have to almost base your build on availability of ammo. Apparently nobody in my area has built a 6 ARC because I have seen factory ammo in several places.

 

[R700P308]

Sad times when you have to almost base your build on availability of ammo. Apparently nobody in my area has built a 6 ARC because I have seen factory ammo in several places.

Yep. And I'm not even talking about on-the-shelf availability; I mean availability within the shooting population!

It's hopeless to find it on the shelves. I gotta figure out what I can more likely buy from fellow gun owners.

 

[polish handgunner]

Don’t buy a rifle unless you can buy a couple of cases of ammo forvit.
I have seen some ‘old’ guys come to the range with some 30 year old boxes of ammo.
They take a couple of shots and then head home. They are the successful hunters.

 

[dhunt]

Caliber Selection Considerations:

Recently there have been a number of common threads, most are titled along the lines:

“What caliber”
“New build, help pick the caliber”
“New to LR shooting, what caliber”

You get the idea.

Many of us who’ve been here for even a few months have seen this thread over and over again, I’ve personally become disenchanted with answering it only to see the information roll down the thread list and disappear. Then 2 days later someone else who hasn’t used the google search engine for the ‘Hide asks the same question.

I talked to a Moderator and this is going to be a sticky, the goal in this thread is to provide some infrastructure for new members to read through and use as a reference. We have several threads like this in the various subforums like Reloading and Optics. Please keep this civil, disengage from any kind of pissing match and base any inputs you have on hard numbers or realistic considerations.

By this I mean you should NOT include a post like this:

“308, forget about the rest”

The 308 has some great features but without any substantiation the post above is less than useless. Instead take an extra 5 mins and say WHY you would pick the 308. Since it’s so popular, I’ll provide it as an example

308 Winchester
Pros:
• Common caliber with military and law enforcement
• Factory Match ammo is easily accessible
• Lots of hunting, factory, and bulk ammo choices
• Mild recoil
• Plenty of knockdown powder for short to medium range hunting on all but the largest/most dangerous animals in North America.
• Good caliber for the non-reloader as well as the reloader due to ammo and component availability
• Excellent barrel life (5000+ rounds easily attainable, many references to 8000+ rounds are seen)
• Fits in a SA magazine well with bullets near the lands for ammo tuning
• Easily attainable actions in standard (473) case head for both short and long actions
• Lapua brass is available

Cons:
• Not particularly flat shooting
• Supersonic range is limited to about 1200yd (depending on bullet, altitude and temp)
• In the realm of 30 cal rounds, it’s neutered in MV and falls short in BC so it suffers in both trajectory and wind performance
• Higher BC bullets are available in both 6.5mm and 7mm offerings at equal or higher speeds than the 30 cal bullets have, they make better use of the case capacity while still getting good barrel life.

Clearly I’m not going to write such an example for each and every caliber below, but that is a fairly detailed review on the round, as opposed to the prior example.

There’s several ways to cross reference the choices and I’m going to attempt to make a relatively comprehensive list but I know that I won’t think of everything. Please feel free to add it and I’ll try to cut and paste additions into this post. It will get too complicated trying to give each person addition credits so I’ll refrain from that. If you added the round 6.5 Bobcat and I missed it initially, I’ll add it and understand that I appreciate the input.

As stated, I can’t possibly write a comparison for everything like I tried to flesh out for the 308. I’m going to start by doing 223, 260, 308, 30-06

Feel free to flesh out your own reviews on other calibers or add comments to things I missed. If you’re going to do this, the goal is a comparative study, not an opinion poll, try to be objective and factually based, not anecdotal. This means that if you're going to make a performance claim about range/drop/wind/etc. please save the argument from starting and show the numbers involved with your statement.

ETA: I thought I had addressed this point in years passed as this thread is nearly 8 years old now, but we discuss "calibers" and "chamberings" interchangeably. This is one of those vernacular things that newcomers don't understand and it's quite a source of confusion. I guess I did not do it in the first post but without sifting through nearly 10 pages of commentary I don't know where it is.

I addressed this specifically in a recent print article on this similar topic but here it is again:

Caliber is the bullet size and/or groove size (this can be confusing as well) not the piece of brass going into it.
Cartridge is ambiguous as well because there are wildcats all over the place.
Chamberings is probably the clearest way to discuss it and IMO the most direct.

The Chambering refers to all of the pieces together because THAT is what we're cutting into a barrel and that is also what the assembled ammunition will enter to be fired.


Caliber List:

<span style="font-weight: bold">Short Action Calibers, 223 bolt face</span>
17 Reminton – 223 parent case, don’t know the forming details
20 Practical – 223 necked to 20 caliber
20 Tactical – 223 necked to 20 caliber, shoulder blown forward
204 Ruger – 222 Rem Mag necked to 20 cal, shoulder blown forward
222 Remington
223 Remington & 5.56x45 NATO – ballistically identical, there are chamber differences
222 Rem Mag

<span style="font-weight: bold">Short Action Calibers, 308 bolt face</span>
6mm BR – wildcats are 17, 22, 7mm, 30 cal all on this case
6mm Dasher – parent case is 6 BR
6mm BRX – parent case is 6 BR
22-250
6mm-250
250 Savage
260 Bobcat – 6.5mm in 250 Savage
300 Savage
243 Winchester
260 Rem
7mm-08
308
338 Federal
8mm-08
358 Winchester
257 Roberts
7x57, 8x57, 9x67, 9.3x57
6mm Super LR
6.5-6mm Super LR
6.5x47 Swiss Match
6-6.5x47 Lapua
6.5x47 Lapua
6-284
6.5-284
284 Winchester (more aptly built in a long action, but officially a short action round)

The list goes on and on, please post suggestions and I’ll add them. This was just a start

<span style="font-weight: bold">Short Action Calibers, Mag (.532) bolt face</span>
Winchester Super Short Magnum family
Winchester Short Magnum family
Remington Short Action Ultra Mag family
264 Rem Mag

Both the RSAUM and WSM series work well in long actions and my upcoming 7mm/300 WSM (aka 7 BAT) is going in a long action.



<span style="font-weight: bold">Long Action Calibers, 308 bolt face</span>
6.5x55 Swede
6mm Remington (6mm-7x57 Mauser)
7mm Mauser
8mm Mauser
9x57, 9.3x57
9.3x62, 9.3x64
7x64 Brenneke
6-284
6.5-284
284 Win
284 Shehane (284 Win parent case, improved)
30-06 parent case family includes
• 22-06
• 6mm-06
• 6mm Catbird (6-06 AI)
• 25-06
• 6.5-06, 6.5-06 A-square, 260 Newton
• 270 Win
• 7mm/270, 280 Rem, 7mm-06 (ballistic equivalents, minor chamber spec differences)
• 30-06
• 338-06
• 35 Whelen
• 375-06

<span style="font-weight: bold">Long Action Calibers, Mag bolt face</span>
264 Win Mag
Win Short Mag series fits very well in the long actions
7mm Rem Mag
300 Win Mag
338 Win Mag
300 H&H mag
375 H&H
264 Wby Mag
7 Wby Mag
300 Wby Mag
340 Wby Mag
7 Rem Ultra Mag
300 Rem Ultra Mag
338 Rem Ultra Mag
338 Edge (338/300 RUM)
7mm, 30, 338, 375, 416, 404 Dakota
Lazzeroni Family (I believe, someone correct me please)
404 Jeffreys

<span style="font-weight: bold">Long Action Calibers, Lap Mag bolt face</span>

30-378 Wby Mag
338-378 Wby Mag
378 Wby Mag
460 Wby Mag
338 Lapua Mag and wildcats from 7mm - 375 caliber
300 Hulk (based on 338 LM case)
300 Kong (based on 378 Wby case)
300 Allen Mag
450 Dakota
450 Rigby

<span style="font-weight: bold">Extreme Magnum Actions, 0.637 Base</span>
338 Allen Mag
338/375 Cheytac
375 Cheytac
408 Cheytac
505 Gibbs (parent case to the rest)

<span style="font-weight: bold">223 Remington</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">Pro:
• Commonality to military and LE
• Small powder capacity, inexpensive bullets, common to find components and supplies
• Effectively no recoil
• Good long range bullets available
• Easy to reload
• Forgiving in powder choice
• Far more capable than most people give credit, 1000+yd target shooting is reasonable
• Great varmint caliber, good medium sized game caliber with the right bullet
• Great barrel life
• Loaded properly the trajectory can closely match 308 Winchester for cheap training
• Lapua brass is abailable

Cons:
• Lacks case capacity to really throw the heaviest 224 cal bullets fast
• Lacks hunting applicability for anything bigger than medium White tails at shorter ranges
• Many states outlaw 22cal centerfire for big game hunting
• Trajectory and wind characteristics are on par with 308 Win

<span style="font-weight: bold">260 Remington</span>
Pros:
• Brass is easy to attain/make from 243, 7mm-08 or 308
• Excellent bullets in hunting and long range
• Easy to load for
• Good balance of case capacity and barrel life
• Barrel life is in the 3000 round range
• Wide range of powder choices
• Flexible hunting applications from varmints/predators to big game short of dangerous game like bear
• Very good for long range targets, supersonic range in excess of 1500yd (depending on altitude, temp, bullet)
• Low recoil
• Several factory rifle options including DPMS LR-260 uppers and bolt actions
• Lapua brass available in 243, so Lapua 260 cases are easily made

Cons:
• Expensive factory ammo with limited match grade choices
• R-P brass takes a lot of work for consistency, neck sizing 243 or 7mm-08 brass is almost necessary to get good brass
• Barrel life is not as good as 223 or 308 or 30-06, it is still decent though

<span style="font-weight: bold">30-06 Springfield</span>
Pros:
I can wax poetic on this chambering and parent case, but I’ll try to keep it short… Just to keep a reference in mind, I shoot the 208 Amax at 2875 from a 26" barreled -06 and it runs alongside a 300 WM.

• Incredibly flexible chambering for a reloader
• Reduced recoil 110gr Vmax for light practice loads, smoking hot 110 Vmax for varmints/predators all the way through 240gr ultra heavy bullets can be loaded in this case with excellent results
• Huge choice of excellent bullets in both hunting and target applications
• Excellent reloading components available
• Forgiving powder choices
• Easy to find loading data
• Very good barrel life
• Loaded hot in a bolt action this case can compete with the smaller 300 Magnums like 300 WM and 300 WSM without trouble
• Long supersonic range in excess of 1700yd (again, bullet, temp, altitude dependent)
• Lapua brass is available
• Very large selection of factory rifles and custom rifles available for it
• Decent selection of match grade factory ammo (not like the 308 though)
• Mil surp ammo is still available as well as mil surp powder, bullets and brass for cheap practicing
• Excellent choice of caliber for just about anything on earth, easily anything in North America. While I wouldn’t advocate it over something larger, 30-06 and 8mm Mauser have been used to kill elephants and water buffalo.

Cons:
• Generally accepted limit for what the average shooter can stand in terms of recoil
• If you like gas guns there’s few choices in 30-06 and the common one, the M1 Garand, can’t take the full potential of the chambering without serious or catastrophic damage.
• Reduced choices for match grade factory ammo, it exists but it’s not as prevalent as 308 ammo. In reality, 308 match ammo is the gold standard for factory match choices.</span>

OK, enough writing for now, please add to the list and ask questions. Let’s keep this as factually based as possible and a civil discussion. The goal here is to create some infrastructure for new forum members to reference and reduce the repetition of topics that flow through

Thank you, great details

 

[dhunt]

Re: Caliber Choices - Comparison and Applications

Here's my numbers on them:

260:

140gr VLD's ~ 2850fps from 24" barrel
123 Amax ~ 2950 fps from 24" barrel

6mmBR:

105class bullets 2800-3000fps depending on barrel length, twist, etc etc.

Recoil on the 260 is low, 6mmBR is practically non-existent. The 6BR is about 300fps slower than the 243 and it burns 2/3 the powder with double the barrel life.

Thanks, great data .

 

[dhunt]

Re: Caliber Choices - Comparison and Applications

Bohem,

As per your request of filling out some on the calibers, I load extensively for the <span style="font-weight: bold">7x57 </span>and the <span style="font-weight: bold">7mm-08</span>

<span style="text-decoration: underline">PRO'S</span>:

Best 'average weight' ballistics (high BC) of any caliber out there.

An abundance of lightweight bullets in the calibers to give flat shooting capability.

Most lighter bullets in these two calibers are more than adequate for any medium game.

Larger bullets in this caliber plenty adequate for large game in N. America.

Abundance of brass for reloading ( any .308 based cases)

Low recoil vs. performance of round.

*While match ammo may not be available, many factory loads have excellent accuracy and naturally high enough BC to compete at 1000 yds.

Great variety for a reloader.

Decent variety for a non-reloader.


<span style="text-decoration: underline">CON'S</span>:

Neither caliber will shoot the 'heavy for caliber' bullets flat like the 7mm magnums will.

7x57 has more capacity than 7mm-08 but can't go as high of pressure. The case taper allows too much bolt thrust during firing and causes excessive wear to cases.
7mm-08 can utilize more pressure than the 7x57 but lacks it's capacity.
Therefore ballistics between the two, when loaded to full potential, is quite close.

When reloading brass from other calibers some extra prep may be in order. (inner/outer neck turning, trimming etc.)


7mm list Factory guns not optimized (like the .308) for shooting long range:

<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]1-9 twist required to stabilize the 'heaviest for caliber' bullets not commonly found on factory guns.[*]Barrels not normally long enough to maximize velocity[*]Commonly put in too short of an action to really maximize COAL/performance.[*]Factory Match ammo either non-existent or intermittently produced in either caliber* -Note, see pros.[/list]

Best loads:

7x57: 1-10" twist, 26", 1.5" dia barrel. 45.2 gr. of RE-17 behind ANY 168/170 gr. bullet for MV of 2683
Do not expect this kind of top end factory velocity from anything except Hornady Lite-Mag.

7mm-08: 1-8" twist, 26", .75" @ muzzle barrel. 47.2 gr. of RE-22 behind any 175 gr. or 180 gr. bullet for MV of 2600.
Factory loads for this round are held up to pressure specs this round is capable of. No downloading for liability fear like the Mauser.

Thanks for sharing this

 

[SatCong]

I keep shooting my 30.06, 308 and 300 Win Mag at long range and it they work.

 

[sandwarrior]

I keep shooting my 30.06, 308 and 300 Win Mag at long range and it they work.

...uuummm, not as well. And, sometimes not all...

But, go ahead and read the first post in this thread then you may use the post #578 (quoted) as an example of what the first post asks you to do.

 

[NonTypical]

Lots of great info here. I’m surprised that nobody has mentioned the 6.8 SPC. I have really fell in love with this caliber. I’m sure there are others that perform better in different ways, but it truly is a great all around hunting round. It performs well out to about 350 yards, which is plenty for me. It also was designed for short barrels under 18” and still performs great for barrels as short as 12” for hog hunters using suppressors. It has very low recoil with plenty of energy. I built an AR 15 in 6.8 SPC and enjoyed it so much that I also purchased a Savage 110 Tactical in .308 and converted it to 6.8 SPC with an ARP barrel.

 

[sandwarrior]

Lots of great info here. I’m surprised that nobody has mentioned the 6.8 SPC. I have really fell in love with this caliber. I’m sure there are others that perform better in different ways, but it truly is a great all around hunting round. It performs well out to about 350 yards, which is plenty for me. It also was designed for short barrels under 18” and still performs great for barrels as short as 12” for hog hunters using suppressors. It has very low recoil with plenty of energy. I built an AR 15 in 6.8 SPC and enjoyed it so much that I also purchased a Savage 110 Tactical in .308 and converted it to 6.8 SPC with an ARP barrel.

It's been mentioned a bunch in this thread. On it's own, and against a 6.5G. It will well exceed 350 yds. 'Plenty' is a term most people, who need to open their minds, should use less. The cartridge is well capable of much more. We're not just talking hunting. Especially now that 6.8/.277 caliber barrels are being made in tight twists.

 

[NonTypical]

You’re right, it is capable of much more. But I was thinking about hunting. The ammo that I use with it is effective at that range and most of my hunting is done under 200 yards.
I just skimmed through the thread and I must’ve missed where the 6.8 was mentioned.

 

[R700P308]

That's fair and realistic.

I'm also thinking SHTF though, not just shortages. Taking retail out of the picture, I can't imagine that 6.5CM is going to be more available among the armed citizenry than 308. For one, 308 has surplus options that 6.5 doesn't (yeah, I know it's not optimal but it's better than having nothing to shoot).

Been thinking about this more and a quick look at the ammo price aggregators shows, as I expected, that 308 is far more readily available than 6.5 Creedmoor. Yes, this is match ammo not 308 milsurp, though I'd rather shoot milsurp in my bolt gun than nothing.

Seems to confirm, in my mind at least, that 308 is a better round than 6.5CM for hard times. And even when retail supply dries up, 308 will be more plentiful in gun cabinets and safes across the country. Makes me strongly consider 308 for my first precision rifle instead of 6.5.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

This is what I reload

.22-250
.244 Rem
25-06
6.5x284
.308
.300 H&H

The point being pick whatever you want. It's your choice.
.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Re: Caliber Choices - Comparison and Applications

Can someone comment on the 6.5x55mm Swede?

It shoots 6.5 bullets. Kinda like the .260 Rem

 

[Steel head]

It shoots 6.5 bullets. Kinda like the .260 Rem

Actually with modern pressures and powders 6.5x55 really has some potential, with lapua brass 4451 kicks ass in it and I think it might have enough case volume to utilize H4831SC and that powder is magic if you can get use it properly.

I shoot
223
260
7SAUM (and it’s awesome with H4831SC and 168’s)
338 edge

I feel those four cover everything pretty well though the 260 could be replaced by a 6BR someday.

 

[Chickentoast]

My current favorites:
6.5 Max in a Tikka action @ ~3.2"
300 RUM single loading @ ~4.1"
Both love N570

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Actually with modern pressures and powders 6.5x55 really has some potential, with lapua brass 4451 kicks ass in it and I think it might have enough case volume to utilize H4831SC and that powder is magic if you can get use it properly.

I shoot
223
260
7SAUM (and it’s awesome with H4831SC and 168’s)
338 edge

I feel those four cover everything pretty well though the 260 could be replaced by a 6BR someday.

That is why I have a barrel nut on everything. Switching calibers is easy. Also, back during SH version 1.0 the x55 Swiss was the recommended 6.5. It is still a widely used international competition cartridge. I also use a lot of 4831 as well.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Been thinking about this more and a quick look at the ammo price aggregators shows, as I expected, that 308 is far more readily available than 6.5 Creedmoor. Yes, this is match ammo not 308 milsurp, though I'd rather shoot milsurp in my bolt gun than nothing.

Seems to confirm, in my mind at least, that 308 is a better round than 6.5CM for hard times. And even when retail supply dries up, 308 will be more plentiful in gun cabinets and safes across the country. Makes me strongly consider 308 for my first precision rifle instead of 6.5.

600 yard plinking. 168SMK N150

 

[oldnewguy]

I see that Berger has a new .257 135gr hybrid bullet. It wouldn't stabilize in the common 1:10 25-06 or 257 Roberts barrels. So, I'm assuming they're used in .257 wildcat rounds, but I was just wondering what some of them are so I could look up for some information and load data.

 

[coldboremiracle]

I see that Berger has a new .257 135gr hybrid bullet. It wouldn't stabilize in the common 1:10 25-06 or 257 Roberts barrels. So, I'm assuming they're used in .257 wildcat rounds, but I was just wondering what some of them are so I could look up for some information and load data.

You for sure need a 7 or 8 twist for those bullets, much like the Blackjack 131 grain.
if your looking for a good wildcat to shoot them in, look no further than the 25 Creedmor

Operation Quarter Lord, the 25 Creedmoor

A custom rifle project creating one of the first 25 Creedmoor rifles

coldboremiracle.com

 

[want to be]

I think it's a viable choice. A lot of the PRS guys, though, feel like they gotta have that edge of more power and therefore use the 6mm Creed/6XC sized cases. Variants of the 6BR that have to be formed, are out because often in the PRS comps you lose brass.

I am thinking of a new build, Will be for 500yds an in. I would like to hear more on the pros and cons between the 6BR norma and the 6 CM when it comes to accuracy. The plan is for an Origin action, KRG Bravo, TT trigger, and not sure on barrel and optic at this time, more than likely a Vortex Razor. I do hand load now for 223and 6.5 CM.

 

[Chickentoast]

I am thinking of a new build, Will be for 500yds an in. I would like to hear more on the pros and cons between the 6BR norma and the 6 CM when it comes to accuracy. The plan is for an Origin action, KRG Bravo, TT trigger, and not sure on barrel and optic at this time, more than likely a Vortex Razor. I do hand load now for 223and 6.5 CM.

For "500yds and in", no need for the extra horsepower or barrel wear of the 6CM IMHO. Unsure if there is an accuracy difference due to cartridge design - expect more awards have been won with 6BR, but 6CM is obviously much newer.

 

[Steel head]

Yea
I’d 100% be looking at 6BR for that distance

 

[want to be]

As I stated not sure of a barrel choice yet. Would there be much of a difference in the accuracy of a 24" to 28" barrel for I like to shoot a suppressor on all my rifles? I'm sorry if these questions appear weak or dumb But I just need the help. I have looked through many threads and it is unclear to me.

 

[Chickentoast]

6BR, 8 twist, 26-28" shoots almost everything well. Although, if you know you're shooting inside 500 and are looking for absolute best accuracy, you probably want to settle on a specific projectile before locking in barrel specs.

 

[want to be]

I was thinking that the heavy ELD over 100 would be better for wind issues and at 500 yds speed would not be that much of a problem, just my thoughts, still trying to learn.

 

[sandwarrior]

I was thinking that the heavy ELD over 100 would be better for wind issues and at 500 yds speed would not be that much of a problem, just my thoughts, still trying to learn.

ELD’s/VLD’s are meant to go the distance. Are you target or varmint shooting? At only 500 yds. I’d not worry about getting ELD’s and VLD’s. Although, if your ultimate goal is ultimate precision, set your rig up to handle those. Those will reduce wind holds as they retain velocity better. They get there quicker, they drift less.

As mentioned by Chickentoast a 1-8” twist will work. If you really want to reach out, then get a 1-7” twist. It helps stability when goung through the transonic.

 

[want to be]

I only shoot with family and friends for bragging rights at mostly paper. I am able to shoot 400 yds at our farm and can push to near 500 but is getting steep up the hill. So what I looking for is a very accurate rifle. My 223 is a RPR and 6.5 is a Tikka and both shoot really well. From what I have read I feel that the 6mm caliber would be a little more accurate. I hope to get a chance to shoot out to 1000yds at some time.

 

[Chickentoast]

^Looks like you've got bases relatively covered with those two, especially if you don't have a place to shoot further. In terms of accuracy, I'd expect the build would have more to do with any accuracy differential than the new cartridge/caliber, and you already have some very accurate factory rifles. That said, I certainly understand the desire for a new build. Suggest doing a new thread asking for input on your build, as it will get lots more eyes on it.

 

[sandwarrior]

OK, you have two rifles that will do what you need. You want a third then go buy a .243 for what you are asking. If you want 6mm CR or XC you can do that too. Any rifle that is put together right can shoot very well. Cartridges and bullet diameters are the last things you need to look at for accuracy.

6mm has a good selection of bullets with high bc's where you can push the bullet fast. 6.5mm has better BC's, but needs a bigger cartridge to push them fast. If you have a 6.5 CR, then you have plenty. Go out on windy days and learn to shoot the wind. Focus on 'not so windy days' and you'll see how much the wind moves your bullets.

I would learn to reload on the two rifles you have. When you feel you've accomplished that, go back and look at 6mm ballistics. No advantage either way within 500 yds. if you load for the rifle right.